I need help, I am doing something wrong...

I am writing because probably someone here can give me advice on what I am doing wrong. I'm sure you're wondering what the heck is he rambling about this time...

I am not picking a specific incident and not realy thinking gatherings but in general in my life I have an issue in receiving affection when giving it.

I am told, and feel, I am great at massage. It is a good tool to use on friends and allows me to get in close with a cute lady that might hopefully lead to something later. However, I get to the "aha I have massaged you phase," and I either have to ask for a massage back, or the woman wanders off and makes out with or is otherwise affectionate with someone else. This is a theme that comes up over and over again. It's annoying and I know that it is something in the signal I am giving that is coming across as wrong. It could be that none of them are intersted in me in that way but I dont' think it could be so many.

For example at a recent party (hence my late post) there was a very nice lady who I started to massage in the room when I came in and talked to a few other women. She lay down and I was working her back and then moved down to her legs and feet. Then another man came in and sat down near her head and started talking to her. He asked to touch her and was soon softly kissing her neck, massaging her and having a full conversation. He never said boo to me and after 10 min I felt like a squeeky third wheel and left. I said I needed to go and neither of them said anything except continued to talk.

I hate jealous feelings but I did feel jealous. I felt pushed aside but its her choice ultimately so I really can't fight back. If I'm wrong and I need to have a different attitude or something I'm open to reasonable suggestions and thoughts.

So I go back out into the living room. His wife is out there so I figure I'll massage that cute lady. She quickly takes off her top and bra and I'm working her for about an hour. At some point she gets a drink and I say "my turn" and I get about 5 or 10 min (her hands are not as strong). Afterwards she is cuddling up with a lady on the couch. I test the waters to see if cuddling and touching is acceptable. I don't get a no but I don't get a response back to me.

A young blonde guy who is tired of being a voyeur comes up and the two of them flirt and pay attention to him.

I know that not every woman is going to be attracted to me but what the FRACK am I doing that's turning them off to me? If you have any suggestions please let me know.

I'm not trying to get laid or to make out (though that would be fun) I think cuddling and a response back is not an unusual hope considering they are enjoying the massage and responding accordingly. So how do I adjust my signals for a better response. I hate feeling jealous like this but dang it I want to be touched back, is that so wrong?

I dont know you personally so its hard to say and this might sound strange but maybe your seen too much of a friend and a nice guy by these people. Like when I was looking for 'affection' as you put it, I would go up to a complete stranger someone I have never seen before; not a friends friend or anything that way they sort of know your not there for a chat and also as I said so dont take this the wrong way I'm just giving my opinion maybe show more arrogance, like when that guy walked in and started kissing the first girl up like say "whats up man can I help ya" something along those lines, you could even say its confidence more then anything else.

Anyway I hope I helped

Kust

DUDE! What the hell kind of parties are you going to? We need to hang out together!

Ok, the first guy, to me, sounds like your classic 'cockblock'. For those who don't know, that's when a guy is talking to a lady and someone else comes in and basically seperates you two, be it by pulling you or her away, interjecting into the conversation, or blowing you off like you're not even there. In this instance, some people (hippies, for example) would say you should tell the guy in a nice way that you were talking to the lady and what he's doing is very rude. Others (cavemen for example) would get nasty about it, beat the guy up and drag the lady back home with him by her hair, assuming the cops haven't found you first. My method is to fight fire with fire. When the casual cockblocker strolls in and, in this case, acts like you're not there, you make yourself noticed. When one of them says something, add your 2 cents in and by all means, make yourself seem the more appealing guy. Do this, and eventually, the intruder will wander off in search of easier prey and leave you and your new ladyfriend to your devices.

As far as the others go, it seems to me the lady was just looking for immediate attention and took what she could get until she spotted what she wanted, in this case the other lady and the boytoy. Honestly, you never stood a chance. Not because of you or your cologne, mind you, but because she had already made up her mind about what she wanted. Best to go back to the other room and face the cockblocker. Or find someone else to meet.

Don't think I'm trying to make fun of you in this thread. I'm just trying to add a little levity to it while giving some advice. I'm not saying my advice is the best advice, but it's the best I can give. Take a shot with it. If you play your cards right, you may succeed. In today's world, when a'hunting you go, you have to show some aggressivness. Not like our caveman fellow, but aggressive enough to show a woman you're really interested. Just be sure not to be creepy about it. That falls into the 'stalker' category, and is definitly not a good thing.

The massage angle is one I've used in the past, and is great for getting your hands on a woman's body. However, it's not a great tool for affectionate intimacy. If you're not a good masseur, they will get irritated and leave. If you are a good masseur, they just want to relax and relish the experience rather than show interest or affection toward you.

I'd suggest a more romantic approach. Engage in conversation rather than massage. Try to find out from her conversation the things that are important to her, and show interest in them. Maintain eye contact, and at some point if you are alone lean forward to kiss her....but only go 90% forward. Let her come the rest of the way.

Good luck at the next party!

Bagelfather,I wanted to say that Yes you do indeed give good massages having received one from you at Motown 😀 I also would say that I don;t think you did anything wrong,as I really enjoyed chatting with you,spending time getting to know you and I loved your company I love to snuggle too and for some people it takes time to warm up,break the ice before they consider receiving or giving affection but you having met me in person,I think I am safe in saying that I have a warm affectionate personality that others around me sense and alot of times I instigate hugs and other times others come to me for hugs.

I do know what kind of parties you're referring to, and I think Flatfoot called it exactly right. They're an exercise in hedonism, and the women do most of the receiving. I'm not saying it's fair, but reciprocity simply isn't a norm there. People tend to do whatever feels best at that moment, and any sense of obligation towards the person giving the pleasure is rarely created. If someone new pops into our field of vision after someone else has given us a massage, our attention tends to shift. Not fair, but still true.

German mentioned that being more assertive wouldn't hurt. I know you, so I know he's right. 😉 Mere massage, especially at parties as non-vanilla as these, is "friendly." You might experiment with pushing a little more, to see what that gets you. Drew also has a point (ew, never thought I'd hear myself saying those words 😛 ), that if you want to really connect with someone, in a way that's more likely to make them want to touch you back, the "professional massage therapist" tack isn't the best. You need to talk to them, and the touch them in a way that's sensual, not just working out the knots.

Anyway, Flatfoot's also right that the kind of reciprocated affection you're looking for is much more likely if you're with someone one-on-one, not at these parties with so many potential targets... and archers.

I will say that I did really connect, once, with someone at one of these parties. That connection consisted of him massaging, scratching, teasing, and pleasuring me... for hours. Except for kissing him back, I didn't reciprocate at all, and he didn't mind, because (at least as he suavely led me to believe), the privilege of touching and pleasing wonderful, beautiful me was it's own reward. He did get his eventually, but it wasn't until the opportunity arose weeks later.

So that's another thing - people who take pleasure in pleasing others tend to be happier about what they do. I also think they tend to give better, and this is yet another thing that tends to draw others in, and make them want to reciprocate. If it ever feels like someone is giving you a massage just to get one back, that's just not as appealing.

Anyway, I'll see you at the party tonight. Good luck to us both!

I want to thank you all for your words. I think its all great advice and I'll keep that in mind. Yes definitely try and be more aggresive. I'm not a pushy kind of person and with the one person I had a one on one chance with I got cock blocked. LOL I had heard that term before.

though in the long run I feel happy because another person there who is finishing up massage therapy has suggested I do it. When I have the $1400 saved up for classes I'll definitely consider it.

I am going to either buy or have made a massage table and take it to Burning Man.

Bagel, my best guess is simply that you aren't engaging these ladies except through touch. Touch is important, but it's not necessarily the most important thing. In the cases you described, it sounds as though the person who ended up getting the most attention engaged those women verbally as well as through massage or other touch. So you might try adding that the next time. Either before or during the massage, chat and flirt verbally as well as with your hands.

I might be completely off-base, but perhaps that will strike a chord with you and/or the women reading this. It can't hurt to try, at least.

Hey Bagel,

How'd it go last night? Better, I hope?

(Feel free to e-mail me instead if you don't want to tell stories here. 😉 )

Talking is good. Massage is nice but is not going to get you anywhere on it's own. If you're looking for erotic type stuff, use it as an excuse to get them nekkid or sitting on your lap or something. 😉

I want to thank everyone for their advice on this. Yes, Lindy things went MUCH better. I wasn't trying to have sex with someone, just more attention. Apparently the "cock blocker" incident is part of a larger story that happened later. I'm not sure WHAt went down Saturday morning (past 4am) but I know less than an hour after I left there was MAJOR drama including crying in the host and hostess' bedroom. I don't know what happened but something tells me that a poor choice was made by someone.

So it may be that I was better off.

I did on a dare get to take a drink from the hostess via a kiss. That was a lot of fun. She is an amazing kisser. We are very compatible on that level, and she said she enjoyed it too which is good (yay hot kisses ). Much like someone I know here whom I have kissed before (colored feline lady 😉. There was great chemistry. As much of a flirt and as attractive as she is the other lady in the hosts life (and having kissed her at my last party) the hostess is a FAR better kisser. I was only sad that I got that one chance and it is a difficult thing to ask for more time. I don't want hot monkey love, cuddling and kissing her is JUST fine for me 😉.

But I digress, thank you for scritchies and the play in the living room. That was a LOT of fun. I had come out to most of the people there about my kink but now EVERYONE really knows the extent of it. I'll have to have a talk my friend in the kilt some day and go through the long and the short of it. He seemed fairly amused. Especially since we both have a mutual crush on a woman whom I suspect has at least a mild tickling bent 😉

Yes I was more aggresive and got better results. There were not a lot of women there that I wanted to do things with (per your dare and my inspired duck duck goose game of who I would want to sleep with who was there).

And for the question about the type of parties these are asked by someone earlier...ummm... I try to throw ones similar to this 🙂 I've had mixed results but I think that my next one will go better (probably in May sometime).

I am going to work on being aggresive in stages and see what happens from there. Also if you are asking yes I just got home an hour ago... yeah two day parties are something I only want to do OCCASIONALLY.

Google Time

I can't find it now, but someone here posted The Don Juan Tip of the Day and I subscribed to it. That might give you some ideas.