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A question for the ladies of the forum

alchemy

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Nov 1, 2004
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Ok ladies, got a question for ya.

What is up with women dating/married to assholes? I seriously want an answer to this. It's aggravating.

I'll give you an example: I stopped at the Chevron gas station after work tonight to put a bit of gas in my car. The store area was closed so I had to go to the sliding thing in the front. There was only one customer ahead of me. There was an obnoxious guy talking to the worker through the glass while his girlfriend waited close behind him in the car. He was buying a 6 pack of beer (big surprise). I walked up and stood in line behind him. He had bad teeth, was dressed in baggy clothes, and a backward cap. He nodded at me and said something like "Hey brother!"....dude had a combination of a redneck accent and street. So...kinda like Kevin Fedderline, I guess. He was being VERY rude and was yelling at the employee for not giving him the right change back on his beer...cheap beer at that. He, very loudly and obnoxiously was yelling things like "Elementary school will take 40 year olds dog! You need to get your ass back to school Mother Fucker! You can't count or something? Shit!" I glanced into the car. He girlfriend was pretty. She said a few things in his direction. She seemed to be fairly well spoken and fairly intelligent...and yet was driving his obnoxious, low life ass around for cheap beer. As they drove away with him still yelling out the window, I just stood there and wondered....WHY!!?? Why would she even give that douchebag the time of day?
This is not an isolated incident either. I see this crap ALL THE TIME. A beautiful, fairly intelligent girl with an obnoxious, stupid, K fed clone, douchebag? In fact I see this perplexing dynamic so fucking often, there has to be something to it? Seriously, I could carry around a little note pad and write a tally mark every time I saw this. 10 bucks says that by the end of each day, I'd have 30...35 tally marks...a day.

Ok ladies...a little help here...

WHY?

😕
 
Uh, because most of us are stupid at least once and fall for what's presented to meet our best and usually readily revealed expectations--the mask worn and tweeked to keep our rose-colored glasses so tinted until the guy knows for sure that he "owns" us. Sometimes, we're already married before we realize that a mask has been worn up to the "I dos"; that the mask is for the public and we are no longer part of the public. Even then, reality takes a while to sink in because we've bought into the presentation that catered to our desires and because we continue to see the public persona turned on for nearly everyone else. We think that he isn't really that bad, at least not all the time; he has his good points. In other words, we want to continue to believe we haven't hooked up with a total loser and so provide excuses for his (or her, as the case may be--some women are assholes too) behavior.

Sometimes, we're just stupid.

Some women are simply too insecure to think they can do better.

Some women actually DON'T know better because all the men in their life--fathers, brothers, cousins, uncles--are cut from the same "asshole" bolt as those they're dating or have married. Other men don't seem like "real" men in comparison. And, the assholes, of course, refer to any decent man as a homosexual, encouraging the idea that any man different from themselves isn't a "real" man.

Thankfully, I didn't grow up with such creatures! But, after being involved with various men, I did marry an asshole who embodied the first possibility above, as did I. Before that, I'd dated and walked away from a few chauvenistic assholes. I declined to become romantically involved with one ostensibly "nice" guy in college. Upon my involvement with another man, the "nice" guy showed his true colors publicly to me and anyone else who would listen by condemning my choice of a guy he deemed to be "no good" over him, a man, who, in fact, was a far better person than the "nice" guy.

Assholes come in all shapes, sizes, classes, and both genders. They aren't always readily identifiable to the women and men who become involved with them.

Hopefully, after falling hard for one asshole, most of us learn our lesson and do better the next time around.
 
I'm not a lady, but here's my view.

If you want something really bad and can't have it, you want it all the more.
If you have it right in front of you, it turns into "meh, cool, next".


That's how most women are.

And then there are those who are sick of abuse, they run to you, those are the clingy ones.

I have yet to find one that hasn't fucked up in a relationship.
 
Why?

I guess this needs no science...let me try:

You have assessed the lady by the way she speaks for just few seconds and concluded she was intelligent.

Okay, so the man had shown a conclusive attitude, plus the bad teeth...Good lord she must be head overheels and drunken in love with him. yukk

Some women are trapped by situations, but who knows what happened right after the couple were out of your sight?

Hope the man is still walking with both legs. lol

:upsidedow
 
why do some women stay with abusive husbands? no one knows the answers to that..i cannot relate..as i've been extremely fortunate in my choice of husband..my protecter, my companion, my champion, who would never ever talk to me that way..or lay a hand on me...i'm sorry everyone cannot have a husband like mine..

i never see crap like this..i must live in an isolated place
 
I asked a similar question myself and the consensus seems to be that maybe the man has something to him that you don't see. Maybe he cares for her really well or tends to all of her emotional needs (including that odd craving for conflict that women seem to have), or has a massive cock or something. One will never know, however when I find this or similar quandries invading my mind I defer to the timeless wisdom of Bill Hicks....

Anyway, I was reading an article in the paper about Ted Bundy [the mass murderer] being on trial in Florida. In the article it said the courtroom was filled with women waiting to give him flowers, love letters and wedding fucking proposals … and I'm afraid to say that the first thing that entered my head was: "And I'm not getting laid." What am I doing wrong? I read another article, a woman is suing the state of Wisconsin. Here's why: She married a fella. He's on death row. Why is he on death row? He killed 8 women … he has AIDS, and she's suing the state for rights of conjugal visits. And I'm afraid to say that the first thing that came to my head was: "And I'm not getting laid."
 
Judging from this k-fed clone you saw, I would say he should have been asking for directions to the school for himself... :devil:

Not a lady here either but here is some possibilities -

Women like that are insecure and don't want a boyfriend who is smarter than they. OR, maybe those women have a lot more problems than what they are showing on the outside. But storyteller covered this in detail

Maybe these assholes are like male versions of sluts/*****s. Regarless of what us guys say, most of us would not turn down some easy *****.

Unfortunately, people tend to date the same shit over and over. That is why some women complain about "every guy I date is an abusive asshole..." It is like once you have dated one type of person, the stinch of that type lingers.

Alchemy, you are so damned correct in what you are saying. In fact, some guys say it is good to become an asshole if you want to date the better women. Isn't that what the "lookers" want?
 
I hope more women weigh in on this. I look forward to seeing more of their views on it, and whether they're congruent with my take or if they think my view's full of crap. I hope my possession of a penis doesn't preclude me from offering my thoughts... In my experience, there are three primary reasons for what you describe, often acting in combination:


1. The obnoxious male seems "better". He puts himself and his needs first, and so, seems like someone of higher value than one who automatically puts a woman's needs first. If there is a struggle to get validation from him to reward your own needs, it seems all the more worthwhile when/if you receive it. So paradoxically, the more self-centered the male, to some women, the more seemingly "valuable" they are.

2. The angry, bullying male seems dominant. Civil society teaches us to avoid conflict, even at some pretty high costs. When you have a bully, therefore, they can get away with a lot of garbage again and again. The fact that they almost never get their card pulled reinforces the perception of witnesses that the bully is tougher, stronger, can get his way over others and is therefore a more viable mate than those who demur from conflict. He appears to be Alpha, in some respects.

3. The female is working out the soap operas that their parents left them with somehow. Women will sometimes look for someone who resembles their father in certain traits. If that father was aloof, uncaring, distant, abusive, or just plain absent, look out. The woman may try to receive the validation and attention from him that she didn't receive from her father. If she gets it too easily (or sometimes, at all), she may very well dump him, because it didn't resemble the previous arrangement enough... Whether the old father-daughter relationship was abusive or neglectful or whathaveyou, there's a comfort in familiarity.

This is why I always implore that fathers of daughters be active and caring in their daughter's lives. Many without thinking will look for whatever dynamic you set up in childhood later in life, and it'll play a large role in the happiness they can find in their adult relationships.


These three are largely why I think "nice guys" believe they would get more play if they were assholes. They may be right, but if they actually are nice guys, often their personality, morals and basic human decency prevents them from being real, convincing assholes or from trying to manipulate people into believing they are such.

A well-worn but always interesting question, Alchemy. I look forward to other responses.


*Addendum: I was at rehearsal and realized I unduly limited my answer because of the question... I imagine there are a good number of women who look around and say, "Why is that guy with that absolute psycho harpy?!" To this, numbers 1. and 3. still apply, as do some other factors. Women aren't the only sex to have their adult relationships shaped by childhood experiences, nor the only ones to choose mates according to questionable indicators of worth.
 
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Because some of us have so much crap happen to us (before we were able to protect ourselves) that makes us feel like we need to be protected. And the big, scary, jerk with a loud bark, seems like he might be a good protector. After all, he seems fearless and barks real loud… :idunno:

Eventually, the lucky ones smarten up and realize that the men that they were looking to for protection, were the ones they needed be protected from.
 
First off, beautiful women gain way too much credibility from their looks. Many many many men have this notion that beautiful looking women are smart, friendly, and worst of all... girlfriend material. Beautiful women can be like junk food... very bad for your health with long lasting side effects (sometimes permanent, just ask Leo or Headsnap).

The answer to your question is simple. Assholes know how to communicate sexually and stir up powerful emotions inside women. The way K-Fed communicated to that employee was rude, but it had presence and commanded respect. Women need men they can feel safe around and men that don't take shit. K-Fed couldn't have been that bad of a guy, because he did say hi and was friendly to you, right??

And for all you know that girl could've been K-Fed's sister or cousin or maybe even his mother.
 
First off, beautiful women gain way too much credibility from their looks. Many many many men have this notion that beautiful looking women are smart, friendly, and worst of all... girlfriend material. Beautiful women can be like junk food... very bad for your health with long lasting side effects (sometimes permanent, just ask Leo or Headsnap).

The answer to your question is simple. Assholes know how to communicate sexually and stir up powerful emotions inside women. The way K-Fed communicated to that employee was rude, but it had presence and commanded respect. Women need men they can feel safe around and men that don't take shit. K-Fed couldn't have been that bad of a guy, because he did say hi and was friendly to you, right??

And for all you know that girl could've been K-Fed's sister or cousin or maybe even his mother.

The beautiful thing is really besides the point...beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I'm questioning the whole girl with asshole guy dynamic.

Um....K-Fed said hi to me, but I wouldn't say he was friendly. Besides, what has THAT got to do with anything? A douchebag that says hi is still a douchebag.

Ok, so the girl could have been a friend or his sister or something (unlikely), but you're missing the point, I'm talking about this dynamic as a whole, not an isolated incident. That was simply an example.
 
You don't get it, dude. I'm not going to argue. Pay attention!! I'll explain this once more.

Beautiful women get away with a lot because they're beautiful. You think this woman K-Fed was with is just great because she looks good. You don't know this woman and you're telling us she's smart based on what she looks like. This observing experience managed to make you emotional just because you saw a good looking woman with a K-Fed look-a-like. That's all you saw. You're only saying she's smart because she's good looking... unless you can remember what it is she said exactly that made her look well-spoken and intelligent.

A douchebag who says hi is still a douchebag ONLY in your eyes. In reality the douchebag still said hi.

Women are attracted to assholes because assholes have an edge that nice guys don't have. Assholes are not timid, they're assertive and many times aggressive. Courage to make bold moves which are required to initiate a sexual relationship is vital to "getting laid". Nice guys don't have that courage, so they compensate by acting nice, which unfortunately doesn't arouse women sexually.

Assholes are the dominant members in their relationships. They don't tolerate the games women play. Instead they give it right back to the women and are challenging. There are many instances when they'll abuse women, but that's not what does it... although, there are some women who like abuse, but they are rare. The thrill is in that less physically abusive challenge the asshole gives back.

Maybe he stops what he's doing and leaves her side or he goes and talks to another girl. Or he simply gives her the gift of missing him after they have a great time together by not calling her for a week. Or because she's good looking she has this delusion that she's entitled to whatever she wants... so she complains when he doesn't do something she wants. When she complains he makes fun of her by mimicking her... or he does just a little bit of what she likes and then stops. Whatever it may be, the asshole is challenging and isn't going stop and drop what's going on in his world for a good looking woman. You've stopped and dropped your world for some good looking woman you don't even know. That's the point you're missing!!

Women get with assholes because there aren't many Men around. Assholes have some of the attitudes women want/need and they're a better option than nice guys.
 
^ you are soo wrong..on so many levels...

and i'll tell you why...sometimes i've been attracted to the uh so called assholes...but they are not brave..they are insecure, and hide behind a mask of macho bravado...nice will win out any day in my book...my husband doesn't have to act all macho shit..i just know he is..a real man does not talk down to anyone...or yell and call out names...that is just a creep in my book...and i'll never be attracted to that..

every good girl at least once in her life will be attracted to the quote "bad boy image" unquote...it's just a part of life...as good guys will be attracted to the hotter than hell girl until they realize there is more to a female than a hot bod and sexy attitude..
 
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Well technically.........


If a male plays the female games back at the female, they are both retarded.


I get classified as an asshole a lot, so I probably know a thing or two here.


In my view, an asshole is somebody who says mean stuff just to say it. EXAMPPLE: Male walks by a female on the street. "You have chicken legs and you your face reminds me of a mud pile." Asshole. He had no reason to attack a random stranger, but he did.

Honesty is totally different. Example. Girl: "Well I got dumped and left pregnant" Guy: "Good job doofus." It's mean, yeah, but it's honest.


Point and case, assholes randomly attack people for no good reason.
Honest people point out the truth.
And then there's me, an honest asshole. :upsidedow
 
First off, beautiful women gain way too much credibility from their looks. Many many many men have this notion that beautiful looking women are smart, friendly, and worst of all... girlfriend material. Beautiful women can be like junk food... very bad for your health with long lasting side effects (sometimes permanent, just ask Leo or Headsnap).

I don't like the inference here. The doctor says the discharge will stop on it's own within 4-6 weeks. And that Adrianna wasn't really a woman.

The answer to your question is simple. Assholes know how to communicate sexually and stir up powerful emotions inside women. The way K-Fed communicated to that employee was rude, but it had presence and commanded respect. Women need men they can feel safe around and men that don't take shit. K-Fed couldn't have been that bad of a guy, because he did say hi and was friendly to you, right??

And for all you know that girl could've been K-Fed's sister or cousin or maybe even his mother.

I agree with everything else you have said here.
 
many interesting views here.

So it seems if a guy wants to attract some young hot bimbo - he needs to be an asshole in specific ways.
If the guy wants to be one, he may need to practice.

The thing is for "nice guys" - they can get laid, but only by the grossest, most undesirable dogs.


What is even more strange than the "hot girl with asshole" paroblem is the "hot girl with nerdy pencil-dick" scene. My younger sister is what most guys would call "hot" but her husband is kind of nerdy. She leads him around by the short hairs. Probably just cause he comes from some rich family.
 
Wow....


...where has this thread gone? You know what, I'm going to step back from this one, cut my losses and forget I started it.

You guys have fun.

(and Ego, I get what you're trying to say, but I don't buy it. If what you say actually has some truth to it, I'll just pray for a quick death to the entire human race. Seriously, if that's what most women want out of a guy now (since you assert that there are no "real men" anymore), I'm all for forced sterilization right now. Go watch the movie "Idiocracy" by Mike Judge and then get back to me. I'm done.)
 
I'm not completely disagreeing...

Guys like that give me the hope that i can someday get a hottie for myself!

Yeah, but images like your current ultra-graphic alter-ego
(I'm at a loss for words to describe that image :shock: )
kinda kill that hope, as someone said...
:jester:
--------------------------------------------
And otherwise, falsely suave or not, there is usually nothing more repulsive
than a schmuck who's rude to a waiter & then acts smug about it. :disgust:
Or who brags about all the people he bosses around all day, or, yes, about all the money he makes --- like he's assuming you're going to be impressed by that. :illogical (Right, so you're out to buy a wife. There are websites for that elsewhere.)

BUT I think someone else said women get suckered into emotional depth with these deadbeats
who present them with falsely positive self images long enough, at first,
--- as if they're caring, sensitive individuals;


maybe his last girlfriend dumped him cruelly... supposedly...:sadcry: [and you find out, with good reason!!]
or his [insert family member, friend, or co-worker] just got hit by a bus
or, knowing you're a dog lover, he created a shrine to his great-aunt's late cranky poodle (sob, snort, honk<)
fifteen minutes before you entered his apartment...

These are often the most charismatic, conniving and ultimately repulsive guys,
and some (women/people) are lucky enough to recognize the creeps for what they really are
though not before wasting far too much time and emotional energy.

Once you're suckered in and have invested yourself emotionally,
you've find you've fallen for someone who doesn't exist
and you really want to think they do,

though a persistant voice in the back of your head keeps jabbing you when they slip up and reveal themselves,
as they eventually will also....

You do begin making excuses, giving the benefit of the doubt,
attributing their awful behavior to their mother or their breakfast,
until finally the rudeness, manipulations and lies pile up so high you can't ignore them,
and you have to face the fact you wasted a few months or years on a complete jerk. :ermm:

And some people STILL don't want to see it, are too afraid of being lonely and single,
are too settled in their rut, or there are kids involved, etc...
(And some unfortunately don't mind being with someone controlling or unpleasant if that's what they're used to from childhood, agree there also.) 🙁
 
(and Ego, I get what you're trying to say, but I don't buy it. If what you say actually has some truth to it, I'll just pray for a quick death to the entire human race. Seriously, if that's what most women want out of a guy now (since you assert that there are no "real men" anymore), I'm all for forced sterilization right now. Go watch the movie "Idiocracy" by Mike Judge and then get back to me. I'm done.)

I don't think he's saying "there are no real men anymore". What he's saying is that a lot of men play the Mr Sensitive card because they think it's a sure-fire way to get their hole with random strangers that they find attractive. Mr Sensitive doesn't work like that. Mr Sensitive gives women the impression that he can tend to their softer emotional needs, and thus he specialises in picking up women that other men have left in the dumps or emotionally vulnerable women who need someone to open up to. Mr Sensitive does get his hole, but it takes a while because he's sensitive and can tell when a woman needs a shoulder upon which to lean her head and fucking moan about picayune shite for endless aeons and when she needs a reassuring poke which, in his role as a caring friend, he is only too happy to administer. Mr Bold, also known as Mr Prick and Mr K-Fed, gets lots of hole and in a fashion that is as much more dramatic as it is less pathetic than Mr Sensitive because he knows how to play the charm game, when to talk, when to listen, when to not call, when to call, all that stuff. He is a master of intrigue and playing women at an emotional level usually because he understands them in a twisted sort of way. Myself I'm not good at either; I can't, can NOT, fucking sit and listen to people whinge about their plumbing or how their boss doesn't understand them or how they have orange peel on their legs, and I'm not smooth enough to chat women up because I like to talk rather than listen and having my bluff called vis a vis sexual innuendo tends to stop me in my tracks. I find that Mr Hey Baby You Look Drunk works fine.

Also I have to say I like where Ego is coming from with the attractive woman thing, and it's something that pisses me off to no end. Some men will refuse point-blank to criticise a woman simply because she's physically attractive, and will paint idealised and often stupid portaits of women in their heads for the same reason. Of course they'd never admit that her comelyness is the reason for their unwillingness to chastise (or even acknowledges human too), but you can usually tell when that is the case. I was as guilty of it as anyone when I was a kid of 18, but the more you socialise with people the more you realise that just because someone looks decent on the outside doesn't mean they're not a vacuous/ mean-spirited/ boring bastard when it comes to engaging them in conversation, in the same way as someone being attractive doesn't necessarily mean they ARE any of those things. I think at a point in your life as a male it's alright to idealise pretty girls, but if you don't grow out of it by the time you're at LEAST in your mid-twenties then you need to have a serious word with yourself.

In conclusion what Ego's saying is that Mr Sensitive is getting tired, sometimes women end up with dickheads because they choose to end up with dickheads, and that just because a woman is visually appealing doesn't mean she's smart or pretty or whatever. He makes some good points, but because people can't move past the polarised way in which he makes them they're often missed. I can't recommend any films that illustrate this point although you could try putting yourself about a bit.
 
It really isn't difficult to spark attraction. Everybody is born with the ability to attract opposite sex members. A big problem for many guys is they aren't sexually developed, so opportunities to advance to sex are missed out on because the guy just doesn't understand what's going on during the interaction. I'm sure alchemy has had numerous opportunities to "get laid", but he didn't recognize when they presented themselves or he didn't know what to do. It happens!!

Women will rarely make the first move or spell out their interest in an assertive manner. Many communicate their interest subtlety through their body language such as playing with their hair, maintaining eye contact, if they're leaning into you, laughing, laughing so hard they put their hand over their mouthes and then slap your shoulder or thigh when you tell them they have permission to laugh (this sort of scenario happens in public settings and she's a lil embarrassed cuz what's been said is so damn funny, but she doesn't want to draw attention to herself), initiating a conversation when there is silence, and then there's a certain look a woman gives when she's feeling the good vibes. Like... if you 2 share an intimate moment and she wants to be kissed, there will be strong eye contact and then the eyes will move down to the lips and then back up to looking into each other's eyes.

Some TV shows that are really good at showing sexual tension and how to handle it are Nip/Tuck and Grey's Anatomy. Pay attention to Dr. Christian Troy's character!! The guy's got courage to make moves and his witty bantering with women is wicked. Pay attention to every character in Grey's Anatomy, except maybe for Dr. Bailey, because it's all over the place in that Hospital.

As for the "Mr. Sensitive" type guys... well, their nice ways are often manipulative and shady. There's a creepy vibe and a lack of integrity present in those who attempt to pick-up and seduce women who are hurting or mentally wounded already. It's like a vulture picking at dead meat or a raccoon going through garbage. Put in the effort required to meet and attract a woman of quality who's ready to mingle... not prey on women of low quality or women who aren't ready to mingle. You may get the girl, but you'll also get the girl's problems and the relationship won't be fulfilling. Save the Therapist roleplay for her actual Therapist or her female friends. And then run away... fast... and continue to meet other women... women who wanna be met!!
 
It really isn't difficult to spark attraction. Everybody is born with the ability to attract opposite sex members. A big problem for many guys is they aren't sexually developed, so opportunities to advance to sex are missed out on because the guy just doesn't understand what's going on during the interaction. I'm sure alchemy has had numerous opportunities to "get laid", but he didn't recognize when they presented themselves or he didn't know what to do. It happens!!

I beg your pardon?!

Seriously man, what the hell?! Just because I disagreed with your viewpoint doesn't mean you have to get rude and insulting.

Let's take this line by line shall we:

It really isn't difficult to spark attraction. Everybody is born with the ability to attract opposite sex members.

???!!! Uh....what? What hack self-help book did you find this drivel in? You start out with a ludicrous assumption and then "back it up" with basic biology.

A big problem for many guys is they aren't sexually developed, so opportunities to advance to sex are missed out on because the guy just doesn't understand what's going on during the interaction.

Or perhaps he's simply not a Manwhore....perhaps he doesn't want his dick to rot off from all the STD's these opportunities could bring...perhaps meaningless sex or simply "getting laid" isn't his goal in life.

I'm sure alchemy has had numerous opportunities to "get laid", but he didn't recognize when they presented themselves or he didn't know what to do.

Yeah, I love how you think that ya know me...and that you automatically know EXACTLY what my problem is. That's pretty funny actually.

I don't know if you meant to be insulting or not...but you were, so there it is.
 
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I beg your pardon?!

Seriously man, what the hell?! Just because I disagreed with your viewpoint doesn't mean you have to get rude and insulting.

I don't think he meant it like that. Or maybe he did. I don't know :-o

???!!! Uh....what? What hack self-help book did you find this drivel in? You start out with a ludicrous assumption and then "back it up" with basic biology.

It's a valid point if you think about it. Everyone has the ability to be attractive to someone and to attract people to them. If they're not doing that it's because there is a problem with the attractor, even though in most cases the defective unit will instinctually project their problems onto the rest of the world.

Or perhaps he's simply not a Manwhore....perhaps he doesn't want his dick to rot off from all the STD's these opportunities could bring...perhaps meaningless sex or simply "getting laid" isn't his goal in life.

You missed the point, mate. It's not a case of consciously turning down offers as they come up because you don't want to be a manwhore; it's a case of missing subtle cues that women give you to initiate something because you're a man and by design you're not observant. I'm as bad as anyone for this; in fact I'm probably worse than most. Women have to staple notices to my forehead to get me to react to them, not necessarily because I'm some massive stud who goes round ploughing every furrow he finds but purely because I don't take hints, although sometimes it'll be because I think I've noticed something in her demeanour but spend far too much time scrutinising and analysing it to be able to make anything of it.

Yeah, I love how you think that ya know me...and that you automatically know EXACTLY what my problem is. That's pretty funny actually.

I don't know if you meant to be insulting or not...but you were, so there it is.

For my money, I know Senor Ego can be a bit acerbic but I honestly don't think he meant to be insulting in what he was saying. If you've taken umbrage then that's unfortunate. Here is a smiley face to cheer your spirits 😀
 
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