About spam

[MistressValerie1]

Discussion about spam from http://www.tickletheater.com/showthread.php?t=29856&page=1&pp=10 moved here.

 

[Big_Dogg85]

Oh no, I was being general...not in reference to you and me. Of course we don't know each other but we do have a common interest in the TTC. I respect that you are always open with your beliefs on any given topic, regardless of flak. I'm sorry if that sounds a lot like a cliche but that's my opinion of you. I do find though that your posts come out a little harsh, to which I think is just the fact of typing something rather than saying it. I think your opinion on this, and on spam, (You really never know what is in spam...that's why it's disgusting 😛) is wise. I definitely have more respect for you then a good number of members here...that and your art rocks.

Well that's it for me...

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

Oh no, I was being general...not in reference to you and me. Of course we don't know each other but we do have a common interest in the TTC. I respect that you are always open with your beliefs on any given topic, regardless of flak. I'm sorry if that sounds a lot like a cliche but that's my opinion of you. I do find though that your posts come out a little harsh, to which I think is just the fact of typing something rather than saying it. I think your opinion on this, and on spam, (You really never know what is in spam...that's why it's disgusting 😛) is wise. I definitely have more respect for you then a good number of members here...that and your art rocks.

Well that's it for me...

You know, you didn't have to flatter me. You don't owe me anything, you know. 🙁 I didn't do anything special here today.

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

Besides, whats the hurry to spam anyways? This forum will be here tomorrow, won't it?

 

[juggernaut]

I hope so. I paid my membership in full up front.

I gotta bolt, anyway. I forgot to turn the porch light on for the escort service...

 

[MistressValerie1]

I have an idea of what the general consensus consider to be spam but if it is not a problem, may I inquire as to what you (and Ness, Val, mods) consider to be spam?

We consider spam to include incoherent or nonsensical posts which serve no purpose other than to increase one's post count, and posts which are so off-topic that they completely hijack a thread. For example, multiple posts of single letters to obtain PM privileges is spam. So is spontaneous role-playing in a non-roleplay thread if the role-playing makes the thread very difficult to follow.

My idea for this would be to create a sticky containing some posting ground rules of sorts and have a section on spam... of course I could also be very ignorant if one such sticky exists already.

I had hoped it wouldn't be needed, but I was thinking the same thing last night after splitting a particularly badly spammed thread to try to preserve the original purpose of the thread and after reading Camel's comments, which I heartily agree with.

In the past we have tried various approaches to encourage on-topic posting, such as splitting or merging threads, endorsement of designated random banter threads, etc. Because splitting and merging are very time-consuming and often lead to confusion as to where posts have gone, we use that option sparingly.

My proposal would be a rule that (1) role-playing such as cyber-tickling should normally be conducted in designated role-playing or "fan club" threads, (2) IM-type conversations should be conducted by IM or kept to designated random banter or "fan club" threads, and (3) responses to threads should generally be related to the original topic.

The mods do not want to become "netiquette nazis" or babysitters, but the forum has reached a size and activity level where some additional guidance may be needed to help keep the discussion forums useful for all members. I welcome all constructive feedback and suggestions.

 

[TheChameleon]

So is spontaneous role-playing in a non-roleplay thread if the role-playing makes the thread very difficult to follow.

"Crap! Should I stop typing in quotes?"

*starts to find a new gimmick... after snatching the "most likely to change gimmicks" award*

 

[MistressValerie1]

It's OK, Chameleon; I wasn't referring to minor instances of spontaneous roleplay but rather to those who hijack general discussion threads with so much godmodding that the thread becomes hard to follow.

*Vanishes in a puff of smoke and reappears in another thread* 😉

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

My proposal would be a rule that (1) role-playing such as cyber-tickling should normally be conducted in designated role-playing or "fan club" threads, (2) IM-type conversations should be conducted by IM or kept to designated random banter or "fan club" threads, and (3) responses to threads should generally be related to the original topic.

The mods do not want to become "netiquette nazis" or babysitters, but the forum has reached a size and activity level where some additional guidance may be needed to help keep the discussion forums useful for all members. I welcome all constructive feedback and suggestions.

As for the matter of spamming, you and I have already discussed it publically the last time this was brought up and privately as well. But in order to get feedback on it again, I think it would be alot easier to just make a spam forum and let them have at eachother with a lighter version of the rules, and possibly a disclaimer stickey as well, informing people of the unpredictable nature of the forum and to "enter at your own risk".

Your suggestions are good too, but with them I feel there might end up being unnecessary micromanagement of your duties involved.

By creating the forum you do three things:

1.) Get the spam out of the rest of the site and forums. Spammers don't complain about others, and others don't complain about spammers. Less situations, more tolerance, more freedom for both.

2.) Create contained situations where less moderating, pruning, and merging is needed. As you say, its time consuming. Doing this would lighten your load.

3.) Allow the habitual spammers an outlet. By having an outlet, they'll vent alot of their spamming tendencies and when it comes to posting in the rest of the site, they should (hypothetically) be calmer and less likely to start any troubles. If they do, it will be easier to moderator them since they're posting out of place.

I know this makes it seem like we're creating an asylum and putting our wackos in there and then rehabilitating them or something, but I think this will help. Nay, I know it will.

The only countermeasure you need to install is the post count. It needs to be that you are not awarded posts for posting spam or role-playing.

Many argue it's not fair, but realistically and factually, in the history of the internet, post counts make people compete, especially people prone to spamming. They see it as a contest or status or game, which complexes the issue further.

By removing this key ingredient, either in the spam forum alone (or entirely from this site) will make a difference.

On a personal note, its sad we have to be resorting to this kind of thinking, but unless people are going to think a little more before they follow through on any random thought they have and contain themselves better for the sake of the whole, then we need to put the site and the majority first (something we need to do anyway).

This move will pay dividends. I have seen it before in my experience as a moderator, adminstrator, and general forum member, so please trust me on this, guys.

 

[MistressValerie1]

It would be up to the admin to create a forum analogous to the "Silly Stuff Forum" at TMF. If he wants to do it, and set it not to increase members' post counts, I would wholeheartedly support it. However, adding a forum specifically for spam could increase server load and therefore operating costs, so that would also have to be factored in.

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

It would be up to the admin to create a forum analogous to the "Silly Stuff Forum" at TMF. If he wants to do it, and set it not to increase members' post counts, I would wholeheartedly support it. However, adding a forum specifically for spam could increase server load and therefore operating costs, so that would also have to be factored in.

Yes, I am aware of that. Which is why it should be brought to his attention. I have a hard time thinking why he's say no. It largely solves this with no complicated strings attached.

Alas, you make a very good point again about the server.

Removing post counts or not allowing them to be increased in that forum should help that though. Though they are spamming, theres less incentive to post like a jackrabbit.

I have seen what it is to have posts counts in spam forums. It only makes things worse, forces the moderators to spend additional time there, and, of course, creates lags on the server.

Then of course, theres the whole "spam not being worthy of a post count" argument, which is also about forum standards, subtitutions, and ettiquette. Forum rules are specific enough about this in most cases, but alot of rules disappear or are not enforced over time or when more liberal, care-free moderators are appointed.

LOL, you quoted a post I had originally placed after your post requesting that thread be re-closed, but I deleted it because you had posted something else before my post went through and my comment no longer made sense in that context 😀

😱 I'm a bad wittle boy for causing you such grief! 😱

 

[Camel26]

I had hoped it wouldn't be needed, but I was thinking the same thing last night after splitting a particularly badly spammed thread to try to preserve the original purpose of the thread and after reading Camel's comments, which I heartily agree with.

Thanks Val...that means a lot...

I'm not trying to be a killjoy...but there is a huge difference between being the "new generation" of TT and hijacking every other thread, inserting personal/inside jokes that no one else gets, having conversations within that little group in the midst of someone else's thread, etc...

It's just getting old...

And maybe I am too...

Or maybe the direction of this site is changing and I need to reconsider how much time I spend here in the future...I don't know...

Regardless, my commentary is not meant to be spiteful, or hurtful...I'm just calling it like I see it, since no one else was saying anything about it and, as the issue had been bothering me, and seemed to go along with this thread's discussion, I let it out...

Sorry if I hurt/offended anyone...again, just calling it like I see it...

Off to class...🙁

 

[tickle_fan031]

I'm not trying to be a killjoy...but there is a huge difference between being the "new generation" of TT and hijacking every other thread, inserting personal/inside jokes that no one else gets, having conversations within that little group in the midst of someone else's thread, etc...

It's just getting old...

And maybe I am too...

Or maybe the direction of this site is changing and I need to reconsider how much time I spend here in the future...I don't know...

Regardless, my commentary is not meant to be spiteful, or hurtful...I'm just calling it like I see it, since no one else was saying anything about it and, as the issue had been bothering me, and seemed to go along with this thread's discussion, I let it out...

🙁

Nah you're not a killjoy Camel....it's good to hear your opinions on things as some people might feel the same way,but not said anything(like you said).

"...hijacking every other thread, inserting personal/inside jokes that no one else gets, having conversations within that little group in the midst of someone else's thread, etc..."

To try and improve this for members who are fed up of this happening then to elimate/reduce this from happening can we do the above in Random Banter Thread or Fan Club Threads then?

 

[Big_Dogg85]

Thank you very much for specifying what you consider to spam Val, I really do appreciate. As for our conversation before Vlad, I just felt that it was needlessly going downhill and I didn't want it to go that way...so I resorted to flattery. Did it work? 😛

On topic though, I do agree with you all in terms of spam. I would have hoped that people would have the decency to avoid obnoxious spammage... (PMing and avatars are all well and good, but they aren't NEEDED...) but with a forum of this size and ever growing, I think either more moderation and/or education on the avoidance of spamming is well warranted. 🙂

Like tickle_fan 03, I also believed that I was unknowingly spamming in a couple of threads. I just wanted to know what you consider spamming so I know what is okay and what is spam. Thank you all for the clarification! 😀

EDIT: I am also aware that I have no sense of grammar right now....I'll fix it later.

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

Thanks Val...that means a lot...

I'm not trying to be a killjoy...but there is a huge difference between being the "new generation" of TT and hijacking every other thread, inserting personal/inside jokes that no one else gets, having conversations within that little group in the midst of someone else's thread, etc...

It's just getting old...

And maybe I am too...

Or maybe the direction of this site is changing and I need to reconsider how much time I spend here in the future...I don't know...

Regardless, my commentary is not meant to be spiteful, or hurtful...I'm just calling it like I see it, since no one else was saying anything about it and, as the issue had been bothering me, and seemed to go along with this thread's discussion, I let it out...

Sorry if I hurt/offended anyone...again, just calling it like I see it...

Off to class...🙁

I'm not sure if my reply to you was deleted or not when Valerie pruned the thread and moved this here, but I'll just basically say again that you're not alone in thinking that way. I've been verbal on the issue before myself. It is good for more people, including yourself to voice their opinions about this at least once in a while. It lets others know how you feel.

When no one says anything people start to assume there are no problems, and reminding people that there are and what we can do about them is a step forward.

To remain in a state of complacency is damaging to the overall facility of a website. The more you prolong a solution the harder a problem is to root out.

I've been scorned for sayings things like this, but thanks to other honest people, like you, it shows I am not alone in this thinking this way, and therefore adds more legitmacy to what I'm saying and vice-versa.

Thank you. 🙂

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

As for our conversation before Vlad, I just felt that it was needlessly going downhill and I didn't want it to go that way...so I resorted to flattery. Did it work? 😛

I figured you were doing it to keep the conversation from becoming uncomfortable. It seemed like a defensive mechanism on your part to start complimenting me. Thats how I saw it anyway. People don't just start complimenting people out of the blow like that.

You should know though that I don't hold it against you. If thats the best thing you could think of at the time, then its the best thing you could think of at the time.

Did it work? Not really, since I knew where you were coming from with it. 😛

 

[Camel26]

Thank you Vlad...I feel a little better about it now...

you're right...if nothing gets said, nothing gets done...

Here's to all of us gaining a better understanding of ways to make a wonderful place even better from all of this...

Hope you're having a wonderful nite in your kingdom of ice, dear Vlad!!! 😀

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

Thank you Vlad...I feel a little better about it now...

you're right...if nothing gets said, nothing gets done...

Here's to all of us gaining a better understanding of ways to make a wonderful place even better from all of this...

Hope you're having a wonderful nite in your kingdom of ice, dear Vlad!!! 😀

You're more than welcome. 🙂

And another thing, you don't have to apologize for anything you've said. It was very true and very observant. You also don't need to excuse your legitimate complaints. More to that, theres no malice in your heart, you know that, so I would hope in the future that you'd be willing to share your honesty with the rest of us more often. Trust in your honesty, even if it may not be what everyone wants to hear. 🙂

I'm fine, thank you. How are you? :happy:

 

[Hungarian21]

so is this closed/gonna be closed too?

 

[MistressValerie1]

I'm glad to see this discussion flourish because many legitimate concerns have been raised.

We don't want to micromanage members' postings, but unless and until we have a seperate subforum dedicated to "silly stuff," the best solution would be, as TF03 suggests, to confine the "spammage" to designated threads. We should also limit the number of such threads so that the General Discussions forum is not overwhelmed (i.e., one godmod thread, one or two active random banter threads).

I would specifically like feedback on whether we should create a new guideline on thread hijacking and post it as a sticky thread. Would this be helpful to members, or would it be too authoritarian for this community?

Thank you to everyone who has shared their opinions.

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

Well, until the forum can be made maybe the rules on spamming can be updated. Or, maybe some sort of a 'courtesy system' where only so many spam threads or threads which contain more spam than subject matter, are allowed at a given time.

This would require more participation from people, however, and if people don't want to cooperate it may fail.

A guideline on hijacking would be a good idea and should be done regardless of whatever system is created. It wouldn't be authoritarian here. There clearly needs to be a little more consideration on the part of cliques for everyone else.

If you really think about it, everyone else is pretty much ok. It's the cliques that are more often than not behind the spam. As Camel said, it's usually the same group of people posting private jokes and banter to eachother that are either too difficult for others to get into, something others don't want to get into, and/or it's troublesome or annoying because theres too much of it existing at one time.

This idealogy that "if you don't like it just avoid our posts or don't take them so seriously!" has got to go. By doing that, they learn nothing or take no sense of accountability or responsibility or consideration and the problem continues.

So, in reality, the cliques are behind the majority of this. So no, I do not think it is authoritarian to address these groups of people in a formal statement.

It also serves to show newer members what we expect to not happen. We're not asking much from the users, just a little. And a little goes a long way.

 

[tickle_fan031]

I'm glad to see this discussion flourish because many legitimate concerns have been raised.

We don't want to micromanage members' postings, but unless and until we have a seperate subforum dedicated to "silly stuff," the best solution would be, as TF03 suggests, to confine the "spammage" to designated threads. We should also limit the number of such threads so that the General Discussions forum is not overwhelmed (i.e., one godmod thread, one or two active random banter threads).

I would specifically like feedback on whether we should create a new guideline on thread hijacking and post it as a sticky thread. Would this be helpful to members, or would it be too authoritarian for this community?

Thank you to everyone who has shared their opinions.

Yeah I agree,glad something good has come out of this.

I think it is a good idea to create an area for "silly stuff" to try and avoid hijacking.

I think there needs to be more awareness of where it isn't ok to spam and where it is (within reason)- moreso the latter.Coz it's all very well and good saying you need to reduce spam threads but people will want to know where they can spam instead-if it turns out the replies that they post are classed as spam.Coz some spam posts are the fun banter between other members which what makes it fun to hang out here.

Don't get me wrong I'm all for trying out different things to try and reduce spam and make it easier for people to keep up with threads.....just as long as people are clearly made aware of rules etc 😀

 

[blackmagicjack1]

I've been thinking about this, and just wanted to raise a few questions.

1. TT was created with a purpose in mind. The basic purpose to my mind is for the discussion of tickling, the sharing of tickling material, and the interaction of people with the same interest. Is the way that the forum facillitates this no longer adequate to the needs of the users? Do there need to be an area that some may consider banter or spam. If there was, I would look at as a place for our more social users to communicate with each other. Forums I don't think were designed for the kind of communication that takes place in IM's, but they can work that way.

2. If you want to address the matter, I would address the whole server, not just specifically address the current clique(s). The reason why is that the membership of the forum will change, and if you just addressed a select group of people, it is likely the problem will arise again. Besides addressing cliques only re-enforces them, I think you're more likely to get better results if you treat them as individuals. Personally I think there will always be some spamage, but issue isn't that there is spam, it's the volume according to some members.

3. As far as authoritarism goes, TT (the forum) has a light hand. Which suits me, as far as I'm concerned the lighter the better. The members should be able to do what they want as long as it doesn't actively interfere with the enjoyment of others. Since this point has been raised, it obviously has interfered with others enjoyment. To answer Val's question, no I don't think posting guidelines on thread hi-jacking is out of hand. As long as it clear cut what thread hi-jacking is, and if you are going to post guidelines you might as well post consequences. The only problem I see is there are some existing threads where hi-jacking seems appropriate. So maybe if posters qualified there posts as a "social" post, where the normal rules do not apply. This would be a warning for those who want to be involved in more on topic conversations too.

4. Post Counts, burn them! If someone want to tell me a legitimate reason for having them, please do. I don't need them to know who the Senior members are, it's easy enough to tell in the posts. They don't lend credibility to a person, once again I just look at what a person has to say. So if people are surprised that it becomes a game to get high post counts, they shouldn't be. Post counts don't have any serious conotations in my book.

No matter how you reorganize TT, you are going have issues of this nature. People are unique and want to express themselves in different ways, and do express themselves in different ways. I like the liberty of thought and expression that is offered here. At the moment, I don't feel the current situation hinders my enjoyment of the place, but if it is hindering others then maybe some changes need to take place. Just remember no matter how many changes are inacted, it won't be perfect, someone will be unhappy.

Next time I'll send out pamphlets

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

Very well said and its good to see people agreeing on this.

As for for your #2, there is a slight problem with that, which is why I said we should address them as groups, though as individuals they are reading it.

See, by addressing them as individuals, it's actually condecending, perhaps even embarassing or rude. The user may feel scorned if they are singled out. Because the nature of this problem boils down to group activity to facilitate the spam and help it grow and continue, cliques are dealt with, rather than individual people.

A spammer will not talk to him/herself. Only a troll will. If people feel they have something to defend and make open attempts at defiance, it only reenforces the points I and others have made here and makes them easier to mod, and more legitimately and soundly so.

Because groups of people feel they have something in common by spamming (ie- light hearted personality, jovial attitude, etc.) they are likely to make excuses for eachother and their own behavior, and such is the case from specific individuals here already.

We have to address them as groups, and let them know that as groups this is a problem and is already on it's way to becoming unacceptable.

As my idea suggests, the point is not to shut these people down, merely move their activity somewhere else so their choice of activity does not affect the rest of the site.

That this place is a fetish website is irrelevant. This problem is everywhere on the net.

 

[blackmagicjack1]

Vlad,

I think you may have missed my point, or I was not clear enough. I am not saying single people out individually at all, but I'm saying don't single out the cliques. The issue is a concern to the whole forum, and should be addressed as such. I think that treats people as individuals and appeals to them as a larger part of the forum, than just belonging to some clique which they may the feel they are part of or not. To say this is an issue with a certain group of people I think misses the point. They are only the most obvious example, not the only one. I say this because I know I have been party to a few hi-jackings (didn't make a penny) and I do not consider myself any part of a clique. I'm sure there are others who feel likewise.

I also think our defintions of spam may differ. If the Admin and Mods decide to make forum for this kind of activity I certainly wouldn't classify it as spam. They're being social, and perhaps that's the need TT serves for them. In my opinion they are vital part of the forum, their energy trickles into other places on the forum.

Good for now.