Ah Shaq, what has happened to you?

[tickletoy3]

Guys why don't we call a time out here and stop this senseless arguing? This is a forum and a place to share opinions. We may not always agree and that's part of the fun, but why the insults and arguments?

Let's respect each other's opinions. We may not agree but at least show some respect. Everyone is entitled to their opinions.

 

[storm7400]

Guys why don't we call a time out here and stop this senseless arguing? This is a forum and a place to share opinions. We may not always agree and that's part of the fun, but why the insults and arguments?

Let's respect each other's opinions. We may not agree but at least show some respect. Everyone is entitled to their opinions.

I can do that but when a clown keeps showing his moronic colors then its hard to hold back. Prime is totally a moron who only runs his mouth about Shaq because he left "his" team and ever since that they have been irrelevant. Everything he claims to be his downfall is the same for his boy Kobe and yet he fails to realize it. He claims Shaq has been on the decline and can't cut it anymore, yet wasn't the majority saying that about Brett Favre coming into this year? How did that work out? Prime can keep posting his moronic homeristic bs and claiming his "victory" all he wants. He likely is a pathetic little man who needs a win to boost his lowly self esteem and thats why he keeps trying. Time and time again Shaq is in the Finals and yet he won't get that simple logic. Time and time again a player leaves a morbid franchise and like clockwork his game improves. Just look at Gasol now with the Lakers.....

 

[primetime]

You know Storm, you must be as stupid as you look. First of all, I am no "little man". I am something you are probably not, an athlete. You keep talking about my "homeristic BS", but yet you have YET to state reasons why Shaq in Phoenix will work. I have repeatedly given reasons as to why it will not work. Again, why don't you "man up" (or are you really a woman? If so, then "woman up") and share this so called knowledge you have.

You compared Brett Favre to Shaquille ONeal. That is very laughable because they are nothing alike. Favre WORKS HARD EVERY YEAR. Favre is STILL at the top of his game. Favre is not getting traded midseason while playing in a pathetic conference. No one can EVER say that Favre is not a "warrior". No one can EVER say that Favre doesn't work hard at his game. Does the same apply to Shaq? If you say yes, you are a complete idiot.

Another thing. What "victory" am I claiming? What did I win? An argument against you? A 3 year old kid can beat you in a sports argument. Could you please point out this "victory" I am celebrating? Probably not, because you haven't defend your "knowledge" very well to begin with.

Kobe is on a downfall? Are you freakin serious? He is the best player in the NBA and he is on a downfall? Kobe wants to play through his injury. When was the last time Shaquille "I heal on company time" O'Neal played through injuries? Yeah, you have such *great* basketball knowledge.

Look "genius" (yes, I am using that term very loosely), once again, here is why I think the Shaq trade is a stupid trade for Phoenix and it symbolizes Shaq's decline.

1. Shaq was traded midseason. He didn't demand a trade (unlike his days in Los Angeles), the Heat GOT RID OF HIM. There is a major difference between demanding a trade and management just trading you. You think they would trade their "dominant force" for no reason? 2 years ago, the Heat were the NBA Champions. They are playing in a crappy, and I mean, CRAPPY conference this year (5 teams with winning records????????????) and Shaq's numbers are down? 7.8 rebounds against Eastern Conference teams front lines? That is pathetic.

2. Dwyane Wade, Pat Riley and the Miami media are questioning Shaq's work ethic and motivation. 2 years removed from a title and Shaq is saddened by their record? No, Snack ONeal hasn't been a hard worker since his 1999-2000 MVP season. Funny, the Lakers questioned Shaq's motivation when they traded him, but the Lakers didn't know what they were talking about. Yeah right. It is getting obvious about Shaq's nature.

3. Phoenix runs an up tempo offense. That is not Shaq's game. Shaq's game is low post, half court offense. Mike D'Antoni loves his fastbreak European style offense and Shaq is NOT a "fit" for his team. Had they gotten Dwight Howard, then that would have been a blockbuster trade. But they got "broken down" Shaquille ONeal. They won't be able to push the ball like they used to, plus Shaq gets in foul trouble and there is still the "Hack-A-Shaq" defense. Down the stretch, will Shaq be a factor? He wasn't in Miami, even during their title run. That's why this trade is ridiculous.

4. Shaq is injury prone. Being 7'1", 300+ pounds at age 36 isn't easy on the body after years of physical punishment. Will Shaq even be healthy when playoffs come by? Storm keeps saying Amare at the 4 spot is dangerous, which is true, but if Shaq is out, then what? They lost Marion, so now what do they do? Shaq isn't the Diesel anymore. That is painfully obvious. But then again, I am debating against a guy who thinks he is......It SHOULD be obvious.

5. Shaq is in the Western Conference. If Shaq is getting 7.8 rebounds against the East teams, he is now supposed to get double digits in the West? Give me a break.

6. Had Shaq went to a more defensive minded team than the Phoenix Suns, then the trade would have been huge. Had Shaq gone to Utah for example, damn, Utah would have been nearly unstoppable. But Shaq going to a "fun and gun" offense makes absolutely no sense at all.


Ok Storm, once again I have posted REASONS on why I think the Shaq trade is a complete joke. Now, for the umpteenth time, why don't you share your basketball knowledge (snicker..) and give REASONS on why Shaq coming to Phoenix is a good idea. I gave 6 bullet points. Can you counter them? You talk all this crap and call me names, but yet the people that are reading this thread are anxious to see you come back at me with logic and rational to counter my so called "homerism". MAN UP for once in your life. Wait, I can write your response for you since it is the same thing. "primetime is a clown. He thinks he knows everything, but he is a clown. Shaq is Brett Favre. Blah, Blah, Blah." Dude, you really are a sad, sad little man (or is it girl?).

 

[jaba]

First off you are mixing apples and oranges again. You can't compare Shaq of a "few years ago" with Shaq of 2008. At the time the Lakers traded Shaq he was a different player than he is today. To prove it he went to Miami and walked away with yet another NBA title.

It wasn't all Shaq and it wasn't all Wade. Just as in LA, it takes a team to win a title and neither Wade nor Kobe would have a ring without Shaq and Shaq would not have one without them.

Shaq is a shell of what he was a "few years ago" in his Lakers days. His only purpose in Phoenix is to put a body on Duncan and Parker and be a presence in the paint to avoid any easy baskets. He will play his limited minutes and his major contributions if any, will hardly make headlines. That's not what Phoenix had in mind when they got him.

Phoenix did not get Shaq with the intent of him lighting up the scoreboard and leading the league in rebounds or walking away with the NBA MVP. Get real.

Whether that's the final step Phoenix needs to finally get past San Antonio remains to be seen.

As far as Miami trading Shaq in midseason that only stands to reason. He's expensive and Miami is going nowhere with him, Wade, Riley or anybody else this year. Miami is a joke this season. And if it was ALL WADE, what is Miami's record with him? Why are they still losing? Proof again, it takes a team to win and this season Miami is sorely lacking in many departments. The loss of Alonzo was a huge blow to Miami. They are not the TEAM they were a "few years ago".

At the time when LA traded Shaq they wanted a younger player with more mileage in the tank. Kobe was their choice. Shaq packed his bags, moved on and won another NBA title.

Both parties got what they wanted out of the deal.

So to answer your question, what has Shaq done? He's gotten himself traded to a serious playoff contender with a role and expectations allocated to his present limited abilities and has yet another chance to grab a NBA title.

I think I agree with most of this assessment. But looking at Shaq's pretty steady decline, part of it being his own fault, I think Miami got the better part of that trade.

My main problem with Shaq lies in what could have been with this guy. As great as he was, if he had put in just a fraction of work effort in the off season for much of his carreer, I honestly think he might have been in serious debate circles with Abdul Jabbar and Chamberlain for the crown of best center ever. He had the size and talent superior to his opponents, but the off season lack of work ethic kept him from being a reliable consistent force throughout the season. And when he delayed recommended off season surgery for an injury until the laker season started, and he said, "I got hurt on company time, so I'm going to heal on company time" , that told me right there that he really didn't want to be the "most dominant ever" as he proclaimed.

The Phoenix Suns just got their asses handed to them in a 30 point loss to Detroit. Shaq was a non factor, and may have been a liability for much of the game. I wish Shaq the best of luck, because he really did help bring championships to Los Angeles.....but I think he's a shell of his former greatness.

 

[TheTicklist]

Shaq is what he is...

I read and hear a lot about how Shaq could have been greater but I disagree. I think Shaq got the most out of his talent. Shaq's biggest advantage was his bulk and strength. He had to be a load in order to shover that butt in the faces of the Zo's, Mutombos, Smits, of his era.

Consequently, carrying that load took its toll. But he needed to be big to be great. He never had the moves of Olajuwon, the touch of Ewing, the athleticism of Robinson. He needed to be the Diesel.

A couple of years ago in Miami, post-championship he showed up in shape. He actually had cheekbones for chrissakes. The end result tho.. he wasn't the same player. He was settling for a ghastly jump hook instead of getting deep inside.

Let Shaq be fat.. I was never a fan. I saw him as a mental and physical bully. But I think he did the most he could with his talent.

I agree with those who say this was a bad trade. Shaq's excuse is about learning the system. But Jason Kidd, Gasol have been immediate fits. I think Amare gets better, but I think the guy above nailed it when he said "What happens when Shaq breaks down? Now you don't even have Marion." Bad trade. Lets not forget that it was made by Steve Kerr... not the Colangelos. Kerr is just a puppy at this.

 

[primetime]

Man, unless Shaq improves, this trade to the Suns is getting funnier and funnier.... This season is going to be REAL interesting....