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Amway/Quixtar experience?
- Thread starter BellaRisa
- Start date
featherfingers
1st Level Green Feather
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Oh, gawd, those kinds of people scare the living crap out of me! They make cults seem warm and inviting.
I had a friend who was involved with something similar to Amway... Scamway, I think it was called. Anyway, one day out of the blue she called me and asked me if I'd like to come over and talk about a business proposal. I asked her, "You're not trying to get me into one of those pyramid schemes, are you?" She said, "Oh, no. I'll even make you dinner." Against my better judgment, I drove all the way across town over to her place. There was another lady there. We were introduced and then they both went into their memorized lines about the wonders of their "Scamway" business and how it works like a pyramid. I thought to myself, "Oh, crap! I knew it!" My friend had lied to me! I thanked them for their presentation... I'm a pretty mellow guy, even when someone 'cons' me. I drove home thinking to myself, "I'll never fall for that again!"
All I know about these types of businesses is that you must sacrifice mind, body and soul 24/7 in order to be even the tiniest bit successful. I still keep in touch with that friend. She's no longer involved with that business.
I'd like to get feedback from anyone who may have become successful as a result of these businesses. Do you really enjoy what you do or are you breaking your back trying to make it work?
I had a friend who was involved with something similar to Amway... Scamway, I think it was called. Anyway, one day out of the blue she called me and asked me if I'd like to come over and talk about a business proposal. I asked her, "You're not trying to get me into one of those pyramid schemes, are you?" She said, "Oh, no. I'll even make you dinner." Against my better judgment, I drove all the way across town over to her place. There was another lady there. We were introduced and then they both went into their memorized lines about the wonders of their "Scamway" business and how it works like a pyramid. I thought to myself, "Oh, crap! I knew it!" My friend had lied to me! I thanked them for their presentation... I'm a pretty mellow guy, even when someone 'cons' me. I drove home thinking to myself, "I'll never fall for that again!"
All I know about these types of businesses is that you must sacrifice mind, body and soul 24/7 in order to be even the tiniest bit successful. I still keep in touch with that friend. She's no longer involved with that business.
I'd like to get feedback from anyone who may have become successful as a result of these businesses. Do you really enjoy what you do or are you breaking your back trying to make it work?
featherfingers
1st Level Green Feather
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Me, being an amateur investigative reporter, found this just a moment ago:
Amway Corporation is among the world's largest and best-known direct sales/multi-level-marketing organizations. (Amway's IBOs - 'Independent Business Owners' - who sell via the Internet instead of offline do so under the name Quixtar). Some sociologists consider many such such organizations to be 'para-religions' - movements that, while they can not be classified as religions, include some religion-like aspects (e.g. enthusiasm for the cause, recruitment and motivational rituals, positive thinking, etcetera).
Cultic?
Regarding Amway, others go further, claiming that certain recruitment and motivational tactics used within the Amway network make this organization something of a ''corporate cult.''
So-called ''corporate cults'' are businesses whose techniques to gain employee commitment and loyalty are in some ways similar to those used by traditional cults.
Amway is a multi-level-marketing (MLM) company in which participating sales people can earn extra income by getting others to sign up (rather than merely earn a commission on items sold). Amway produces and sells recruitment literature, audio messages, pep-rallies and incentives to help its sales force bring other distributors on board. It is said that successful Amway distributors make the bulk of their income from these motivational products, rather than from sales of Amway's other products.
It should be noted that often individual distributors become so focused on Amway's promises that they seemingly can think and talk about nothing else. They try to recruit friends, co-workers, fellow church-members, neighbors and just about anyone they meet in order to try and build their 'downline' (sales network). Many people are turned off by such an unhealthy, cult-like, 'devotion' to a business scheme. In addition, many people who join and try to make money by working for Amway (or similar MLM companies) discover that they spend more on marketing-, recruitment and training packages than they earn from actual sales and/or recruitment efforts.
Not surprisingly, Amway itself states that it is not a cult:
"I've heard rumors that Amway is a cult. Is this true?"
"No, Amway Corporation is a business and, similar to other large and established companies, has a distinct environment defined by shared business goals. Shared business philosophies should not be misinterpreted as a cult.
As a part of a group of companies whose most recent fiscal year global sales totaled $4.5 billion and which manufacture and distribute quality products and services, Amway offers a business opportunity that is open to all, regardless of religious beliefs, race or gender. Amway really is a microcosm of the world, with more than 3.6 million entrepreneurs worldwide representing nearly every culture, ethnic background, and political and religious belief finding in the Amway business a way to meet their goals.
While unique as individuals, Amway IBOs share a desire to succeed in a business of their own and recognize Amway as an excellent opportunity to achieve their goals. New IBOs receive training, motivation and support in building independent businesses, and are rewarded for their achievements."
A close look at Amway will reveal that any reference to Amway as a cult is incorrect.
Source: Questions & Answers, Amway Information CenterOff-site Link (Last accessed Apr. 11, 2004)
P & G vs. Amway
In an unrelated issue, Amway has been the subject of a legal fight on charges of spreading rumors about competitor Procter & Gamble's alleged involvement with Satanism. But court records show that such rumors were spread by a small number of independent, indivdual Amway distributors. Moreover, as a lawyer for Amway pointed out, "Those individuals did nothing more than the thousands of other people who innocently talked about a rumor that they did not know at the time to be false. And the Amway distributors promptly retracted and denounced the message once they learned that it was false."
Note also that the Tenth Circuit Court of AppealsOff-site Link has ruled that the Amway Corporation is blameless in this matter:
The Federal Court of Appeals for the 10th Circuit held Amway Corporation blamelessOff-site Link [additionalOff-site Link] in the spread of an old rumor about Procter & Gamble being involved with Satanism. This decision should finally put to rest Procter & Gamble's unjust efforts to hold Amway responsible for the false rumor.
The Court of Appeals, reviewing a decision by a Utah federal district court, soundly rejected P&G's accusations against Amway by ruling: ''In the present case, P & G cites no facts to show that Amway told the distributors to spread the [Satanism] message.'' The court also stated that ''Nothing in the record supports the conclusion that spreading ... satanic rumors regarding P&G ... was naturally and ordinarily incident to Amway's business.'' (...)
''If a $40-billion dollar corporate Goliath like P & G continues to pursue its case against the four individuals in Utah, P&G will only prove that it is a corporate bully,'' said Mohr. ''Those individuals did nothing more than the thousands of other people who innocently talked about a rumor that they did not know at the time to be false. And the Amway distributors promptly retracted and denounced the message once they learned that it was false. I am confident that these individuals will prevail; P&G is picking on them just because they are Amway distributors.''
Earlier this week, Procter & Gamble and its attorneys, the Cincinnati firm of Dinsmore & Shohl, were ordered to stand trial in Michigan federal court on charges that they inappropriately funneled misleading documents to an anti- Amway web site run by an individual who was also a paid consultant.
''Before filing its first lawsuit, P&G praised Amway for its efforts to quash the Satanism rumor,'' Mohr said. ''Since then, P&G has been cynically using Amway as a publicity scapegoat for a rumor they have not been able to stop for almost 20 years, and they let things get personal. We're glad to be vindicated.''
Source: Amway Vindicated by Federal Appeals Court; 'No Facts' to P&G's Claims in Satanism Lawsuit, Excite/PRNewswire, Aug. 24, 2000
Amway Corporation is among the world's largest and best-known direct sales/multi-level-marketing organizations. (Amway's IBOs - 'Independent Business Owners' - who sell via the Internet instead of offline do so under the name Quixtar). Some sociologists consider many such such organizations to be 'para-religions' - movements that, while they can not be classified as religions, include some religion-like aspects (e.g. enthusiasm for the cause, recruitment and motivational rituals, positive thinking, etcetera).
Cultic?
Regarding Amway, others go further, claiming that certain recruitment and motivational tactics used within the Amway network make this organization something of a ''corporate cult.''
So-called ''corporate cults'' are businesses whose techniques to gain employee commitment and loyalty are in some ways similar to those used by traditional cults.
Amway is a multi-level-marketing (MLM) company in which participating sales people can earn extra income by getting others to sign up (rather than merely earn a commission on items sold). Amway produces and sells recruitment literature, audio messages, pep-rallies and incentives to help its sales force bring other distributors on board. It is said that successful Amway distributors make the bulk of their income from these motivational products, rather than from sales of Amway's other products.
It should be noted that often individual distributors become so focused on Amway's promises that they seemingly can think and talk about nothing else. They try to recruit friends, co-workers, fellow church-members, neighbors and just about anyone they meet in order to try and build their 'downline' (sales network). Many people are turned off by such an unhealthy, cult-like, 'devotion' to a business scheme. In addition, many people who join and try to make money by working for Amway (or similar MLM companies) discover that they spend more on marketing-, recruitment and training packages than they earn from actual sales and/or recruitment efforts.
Not surprisingly, Amway itself states that it is not a cult:
"I've heard rumors that Amway is a cult. Is this true?"
"No, Amway Corporation is a business and, similar to other large and established companies, has a distinct environment defined by shared business goals. Shared business philosophies should not be misinterpreted as a cult.
As a part of a group of companies whose most recent fiscal year global sales totaled $4.5 billion and which manufacture and distribute quality products and services, Amway offers a business opportunity that is open to all, regardless of religious beliefs, race or gender. Amway really is a microcosm of the world, with more than 3.6 million entrepreneurs worldwide representing nearly every culture, ethnic background, and political and religious belief finding in the Amway business a way to meet their goals.
While unique as individuals, Amway IBOs share a desire to succeed in a business of their own and recognize Amway as an excellent opportunity to achieve their goals. New IBOs receive training, motivation and support in building independent businesses, and are rewarded for their achievements."
A close look at Amway will reveal that any reference to Amway as a cult is incorrect.
Source: Questions & Answers, Amway Information CenterOff-site Link (Last accessed Apr. 11, 2004)
P & G vs. Amway
In an unrelated issue, Amway has been the subject of a legal fight on charges of spreading rumors about competitor Procter & Gamble's alleged involvement with Satanism. But court records show that such rumors were spread by a small number of independent, indivdual Amway distributors. Moreover, as a lawyer for Amway pointed out, "Those individuals did nothing more than the thousands of other people who innocently talked about a rumor that they did not know at the time to be false. And the Amway distributors promptly retracted and denounced the message once they learned that it was false."
Note also that the Tenth Circuit Court of AppealsOff-site Link has ruled that the Amway Corporation is blameless in this matter:
The Federal Court of Appeals for the 10th Circuit held Amway Corporation blamelessOff-site Link [additionalOff-site Link] in the spread of an old rumor about Procter & Gamble being involved with Satanism. This decision should finally put to rest Procter & Gamble's unjust efforts to hold Amway responsible for the false rumor.
The Court of Appeals, reviewing a decision by a Utah federal district court, soundly rejected P&G's accusations against Amway by ruling: ''In the present case, P & G cites no facts to show that Amway told the distributors to spread the [Satanism] message.'' The court also stated that ''Nothing in the record supports the conclusion that spreading ... satanic rumors regarding P&G ... was naturally and ordinarily incident to Amway's business.'' (...)
''If a $40-billion dollar corporate Goliath like P & G continues to pursue its case against the four individuals in Utah, P&G will only prove that it is a corporate bully,'' said Mohr. ''Those individuals did nothing more than the thousands of other people who innocently talked about a rumor that they did not know at the time to be false. And the Amway distributors promptly retracted and denounced the message once they learned that it was false. I am confident that these individuals will prevail; P&G is picking on them just because they are Amway distributors.''
Earlier this week, Procter & Gamble and its attorneys, the Cincinnati firm of Dinsmore & Shohl, were ordered to stand trial in Michigan federal court on charges that they inappropriately funneled misleading documents to an anti- Amway web site run by an individual who was also a paid consultant.
''Before filing its first lawsuit, P&G praised Amway for its efforts to quash the Satanism rumor,'' Mohr said. ''Since then, P&G has been cynically using Amway as a publicity scapegoat for a rumor they have not been able to stop for almost 20 years, and they let things get personal. We're glad to be vindicated.''
Source: Amway Vindicated by Federal Appeals Court; 'No Facts' to P&G's Claims in Satanism Lawsuit, Excite/PRNewswire, Aug. 24, 2000
Oddjob0226
4th Level Indigo Feather
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I just yesterday saw a drycleaner that had a sign up stating they only used Amway products.
Amway can be pretty unsavory. EVERY human contact an Amway representative meets becomes a mark. A rep will tell friends about a 'business proposal' (happened to me twice now) and even strangers are told about the wonders of Amway, kind of like the "Friends And Family" calling plan a few years ago that was really unpopular due to sheer annoyance - one family member changed long distance plans and you added other people's names to your plan....then the phone company would call them, trying to get them to change plans. If an Amway rep meets someone on a bus, Amway will come up..... if the rep has a friend who knows a friend who knows a friend, that 3rd friend removed will be getting a call about a business proposal.
Why? This is how it works, and it isn't really logically wrong: If you talk to people about Amway, 95%-98% will tune you out. But that 2%-5% will be interested, and will either buy from the rep, or become a rep of THAT rep, so the first rep makes a commission without doing the selling legwork. And it can add up, since it is a good product, and known worldwide. So...... Amway reps will try to increase that 2%-5% by making as many people as possible a "contact" - anyone and everyone. I remember seeing on either 48 Hours or 20/20, some show like that, where former Amway folks hated the job because people stopped being people and all of them became potential sales calls. How they could bring up the Amway subject, and how they could increase the number of people to bring up Amway to, became their obsession, because when you are meeting people, coming across people, etc. there are no "work hours"; it's a continuous thing in human society, so they were looking to push Amway continually to snag that bigger 2%-5% all the time.
It's really just a pushy business is all, Avon or Mary Kay on steroids.
Amway can be pretty unsavory. EVERY human contact an Amway representative meets becomes a mark. A rep will tell friends about a 'business proposal' (happened to me twice now) and even strangers are told about the wonders of Amway, kind of like the "Friends And Family" calling plan a few years ago that was really unpopular due to sheer annoyance - one family member changed long distance plans and you added other people's names to your plan....then the phone company would call them, trying to get them to change plans. If an Amway rep meets someone on a bus, Amway will come up..... if the rep has a friend who knows a friend who knows a friend, that 3rd friend removed will be getting a call about a business proposal.
Why? This is how it works, and it isn't really logically wrong: If you talk to people about Amway, 95%-98% will tune you out. But that 2%-5% will be interested, and will either buy from the rep, or become a rep of THAT rep, so the first rep makes a commission without doing the selling legwork. And it can add up, since it is a good product, and known worldwide. So...... Amway reps will try to increase that 2%-5% by making as many people as possible a "contact" - anyone and everyone. I remember seeing on either 48 Hours or 20/20, some show like that, where former Amway folks hated the job because people stopped being people and all of them became potential sales calls. How they could bring up the Amway subject, and how they could increase the number of people to bring up Amway to, became their obsession, because when you are meeting people, coming across people, etc. there are no "work hours"; it's a continuous thing in human society, so they were looking to push Amway continually to snag that bigger 2%-5% all the time.
It's really just a pushy business is all, Avon or Mary Kay on steroids.
featherfingers
1st Level Green Feather
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Oddjob0226 said:EVERY human contact an Amway representative meets becomes a mark. A rep will tell friends about a 'business proposal' (happened to me twice now) and even strangers are told about the wonders of Amway
It's not just Amway, either. A married couple approached me under the pretense of friendship. Turns out they sold Nikken magnetic products. Every conversation we had eventually became a commercial for Nikken. One day they invited me to dinner. (This happened long before the experience I wrote about earlier happened) We sat down to eat and they began talking about... you guessed it! Nikken products! They even asked me if I was ready to become involved with the company! "No, no, a thousand times NO!!!," I thought. (Remember, I'm a mellow guy)
I could go into how a lot of church going people have pretended to be my friend in order to 'recruit' me, but that's for another time and more appropriate for the 'Politics/Religion' forum.
chrisheaven
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featherfingers said:Oh, gawd, those kinds of people scare the living crap out of me! They make cults seem warm and inviting.
I had a friend who was involved with something similar to Amway... Scamway, I think it was called. Anyway, one day out of the blue she called me and asked me if I'd like to come over and talk about a business proposal. I asked her, "You're not trying to get me into one of those pyramid schemes, are you?" She said, "Oh, no. I'll even make you dinner." Against my better judgment, I drove all the way across town over to her place. There was another lady there. We were introduced and then they both went into their memorized lines about the wonders of their "Scamway" business and how it works like a pyramid. I thought to myself, "Oh, crap! I knew it!" My friend had lied to me! I thanked them for their presentation... I'm a pretty mellow guy, even when someone 'cons' me. I drove home thinking to myself, "I'll never fall for that again!"
All I know about these types of businesses is that you must sacrifice mind, body and soul 24/7 in order to be even the tiniest bit successful. I still keep in touch with that friend. She's no longer involved with that business.
I'd like to get feedback from anyone who may have become successful as a result of these businesses. Do you really enjoy what you do or are you breaking your back trying to make it work?
PM me and I'll give you some feed back- NOT Amway
featherfingers
1st Level Green Feather
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chrisheaven said:PM me and I'll give you some feed back- NOT Amway
I'm leaving for San Diego today. I won't be back until next week. I'll respond to your feedback as soon as I get home. Thanks!
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