Ban on skinny models

[Celtic_Emperor]

I understand what you are saying, but I feel the need to say just one small thing:

As you keep repeating the word "disease" in some of your posts, I can see why aucklandtickler makes the point he does. I know there is a social related meaning for the word, but am not too familiar with it, anyway that's probably the connotation you were giving to the word.
However, I am familar with the medical meaning; and in this context a disease has a pathological cause, therefore it is a pathological condition, in this case, said cause could be a hormonal disorder or a glandular problem, among other things. Now, if such causes are ot present at all, then being obese is not precisely a disease all by itself, but it is the cause for other illnesses, in other words, you are not obese because you are sick, but instead you are sick because you are obese. Body types also have a lot to do with it too

Ok, I was starting to get a little carried away...
My point is, maybe it was all just a misundertanding, at least in that department.

Having said that, there's just one more thing, I honestly believe you should try not to use terms such as "blob". It's just not nice...

With respect, if you're not fully certain of a definition or its many uses, even after its been used a specific way and explained, then perhaps it should be left alone, otherwise people assume what they will because it plays to their anger (which is why they choose it), which fuels their need for an answer, which then itself becomes rude because its almost like accosting someone in order to get that explaination, whether they deserve it or not.

It would be better to just let it go. Everyone. If you entertain it, then you're fueling the anger and that makes people not use common sense eventually.

 

[Janus4385]

With respect, if you're not fully certain of a definition or its many uses, even after its been used a specific way and explained, then perhaps it should be left alone, otherwise people assume what they will because it plays to their anger (which is why they choose it), which fuels their need for an answer, which then itself becomes rude because its almost like accosting someone in order to get that explaination, whether they deserve it or not.

It would be better to just let it go. Everyone. If you entertain it, then you're fueling the anger and that makes people not use common sense eventually.

As I already said, I understand what you meant, for the most part anyway. I was only pointing out that the word may cause some confusion and as you said, anger can play a big part on a persons response to anything.
And I'm not trying to fuel anything, not at all, all I'm actually trying to do is give an outside perspective of the posts themselves, not even about the issue.

I'm just gonna walk away now, there's really not much point to this...

 

[MistressValerie1]

Off-topic discussion moved to http://www.tickletheater.com/showthread.php?t=31724

 

[Violetta]

Many thanks, Val. Sorry for veering so far off topic. n_n;

 

[quesecotil1]

In addition, with the introduction of the metrosexual field of play for men, I doubt it'll be long until men start wearing makeup full time. I know quite a few men (the majority of which are gay incidentally) who wear makeup to cover their flaws.

On the topic at hand though, I think it's very good that the Spanish have come up with this idea, but there's a few specifics that need to be worked out. I mean, there's a lot of assumption in this thread, but what kind of baseline could you draw from it? Vlad's got a point about the natural body shape and size of a woman, as I know a woman who has a stomach that is actually quite small and she can't eat very large meals. As a result she is excessively skinny, yet it's not like she can really do anything about it.

People are different shapes and sizes through natural reasons and through lifestyle choices. This is a dualedged sword though, as from the point of view of those influanced by the models, do these women have a responsibility to act as role models simply because women and men feel shamed to look upon something which is inherrently unattainable for a variety of reasons, including but not limited to physical impossibility and inability to change lifestyle?

From a personal perspective, I sympathise with the models too. They have to work very hard for bonebreaking hours and still maintain their bodies. Some obviously fall into the stress trap and that's where eating disorders come in. I also personally feel that Vlad is right about the fact that they shouldn't monitor body shapes, sizes and various other visible attributes, but rather their diets and exercise routines.

I also think that models of all shapes and sizes should be given an equal share of the public eye, but the modeling business is just that, a business. In order to sell clothing, the people in charge want to put these clothes on a woman who is aesthetically pleasing. What is aesthetically pleasing do you ask? Well according to the 'experts' it's extremely thin women.

Now we all have our own opinions and preferences with regards to this matter, which is why it confuses me that fashion designers don't try to sample women from a variety of diferent shapes and sizes. When you're looking at the plans for a building, you don't just want to see the plan of the front of the building. You want to see it from every possible angle. Then again, this would probably also suck resources right out of the designers. It's obviously not as simple as that.

Yes though, the bottom line of my post, I half agree with the sentiment of the OP and I half disagree. Healthy natural shapes are as diverse and different as the men and women that they belong to. There should not be a baseline of size, only lifestyle.

 

[MistressValerie1]

It's OK, Sammi; I found the discussion on makeup to be interesting 🙂

Regarding the original topic, I am not especially fond of gaunt (or overly bulked-up) models either, but I am even less fond of governmental censorship as in the case of the Spanish fashion show. I would support better public education about healthy eating and exercise and would also support a voluntary industry ban on models who are at a dangerously unhealthy weight.

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

In addition, with the introduction of the metrosexual field of play for men, I doubt it'll be long until men start wearing makeup full time. I know quite a few men (the majority of which are gay incidentally) who wear makeup to cover their flaws.

On the topic at hand though, I think it's very good that the Spanish have come up with this idea, but there's a few specifics that need to be worked out. I mean, there's a lot of assumption in this thread, but what kind of baseline could you draw from it? Vlad's got a point about the natural body shape and size of a woman, as I know a woman who has a stomach that is actually quite small and she can't eat very large meals. As a result she is excessively skinny, yet it's not like she can really do anything about it.

People are different shapes and sizes through natural reasons and through lifestyle choices. This is a dualedged sword though, as from the point of view of those influanced by the models, do these women have a responsibility to act as role models simply because women and men feel shamed to look upon something which is inherrently unattainable for a variety of reasons, including but not limited to physical impossibility and inability to change lifestyle?

From a personal perspective, I sympathise with the models too. They have to work very hard for bonebreaking hours and still maintain their bodies. Some obviously fall into the stress trap and that's where eating disorders come in. I also personally feel that Vlad is right about the fact that they shouldn't monitor body shapes, sizes and various other visible attributes, but rather their diets and exercise routines.

I also think that models of all shapes and sizes should be given an equal share of the public eye, but the modeling business is just that, a business. In order to sell clothing, the people in charge want to put these clothes on a woman who is aesthetically pleasing. What is aesthetically pleasing do you ask? Well according to the 'experts' it's extremely thin women.

Now we all have our own opinions and preferences with regards to this matter, which is why it confuses me that fashion designers don't try to sample women from a variety of diferent shapes and sizes. When you're looking at the plans for a building, you don't just want to see the plan of the front of the building. You want to see it from every possible angle. Then again, this would probably also suck resources right out of the designers. It's obviously not as simple as that.

Yes though, the bottom line of my post, I half agree with the sentiment of the OP and I half disagree. Healthy natural shapes are as diverse and different as the men and women that they belong to. There should not be a baseline of size, only lifestyle.

Thank you. 🙂

My whole emphasis has been on health. If the model is healthy, I could care less whether she's thin or heavy. Even if the mainstream, still caters to and uses thin models (lets face it, thats not going to change) even larger models have an audiance (usually other plus-size women), and these models certainly serve their purpose of serving as a template for the fashions of plus-size women.

The same is true for your typical thin model (the majority).

The reason weight and appearance is so important in this business, especially now in this day and age, is because models are representatives, and they represent the "best" of a particular size and shape. It is this way because most people are either moderately medium sized or thin, naturally. Its just in the genes that way.

If this wasn't true, and lets say for example that everyone in America was obese (whether through no fault of their own or because of overeating) then there would be no need for thin models as theres nothing for those models to cater to. All the models would be large as we'd be living in a predominantly large society.

While we're heading that way with fast food consumption on the rise and people throwing away their health like they flush toilet paper, the majority of people still are medium to thin.

Models are meant to represent the best of the masses. It is no wonder why the business is the way it is and why it has lasted so long this way. While America is the most obese country in the world (last time I heard), it only holds the record for the highest ammount, not for predominance.

The people who are obese and giving America this record are mostly the folks who are killing themselves through gluttony and unhealthy eating and no execise. This is part of the "disease" I was talking about, and its filtered into modeling.

Now my whole gripe is heavy people being made models just because they ate their way there and now there just so happens to be more room for them in the modeling industry then there was before.

Likewise, it disgusts me when anorexic/bulimic/whatever models get to the top and cheat out the legitmately thin models who have healthy eating and execise regiments and either busted their asses to get that body or they were naturally gifted but don't take it for granted the way a starving or gluttonous model would.

These models should not have jobs handed to them simply because they fit a weight profile. "So you ate yourself to a plus size, here's a multi-million dollar contract!" "So you only eat when you have to. I've got work for you!"

It just shouldn't work that way (in cases where it does). Much more goes into this then mere appearance and people shouldn't be rewarded for destroying themselves.

In my opinion, a naturally larger woman is far more attractive and appealing than someone who ate her way there (and just happened to get scouted) and doesn't give a shit about herself the way the starving models don't either.

If they don't care, why should I care? This again answers my harsh criticism and word usage. I'm sorry, but they're blobs and mops. I make no apologies and I refuse to sugarcoat this. They're a stain on the business and are screwing otherwise worthy models out of work because they've either been around longer, have status, have connections, are into drugs somehow, are performing "services" for influential people and agents, are rich, or all of the above.

 

[blackmagicjack1]

It's OK, Sammi; I found the discussion on makeup to be interesting 🙂

Regarding the original topic, I am not especially fond of gaunt (or overly bulked-up) models either, but I am even less fond of governmental censorship as in the case of the Spanish fashion show. I would support better public education about healthy eating and exercise and would also support a voluntary industry ban on models who are at a dangerously unhealthy weight.

Well with a few words Val sums up most my opinion of this topic without going into the twelve paragraph monologue I was comtemplating. I don't agree with governmental policies that are meant to protect us from ourselves. Secondarily these overly skinning models are being displayed because there is a lot of money involved. If you can make it so it is more profitable for clothing designers to use "healthy" looking models, you're more likely to get some changes. Just a thought.

 

[Hungarian21]

I dunno...

I dont believe that people should be forced to being fatter/skinnier just because other people dissagree with their looks...I mean, there are lots who are just jelaus of the looks of those skinny girls, because they achived their um....I dunno, dream-shape? And yeah, probably most of them are just beliamic, (sp?), but there are some who just got on a strict diet. I say people should live however they want to. Its like creating a ban for fat people....none of our business.

 

[Cbarton]

my concern is the use of BMI as the standard. They did a survey in the NFL and if you based it on the BMI alone, QB's like Donovan McNAbb are even considered "morbidly obese." It's a relatively new biometric measurement, and (not having expertise in this area) I'm not sure if it will stand the test of time.

As long as you have the big name deigners going gaa-gaa over models with no hips so they can create their 'masterpieces' of fashion as THEY want it to be, this problem will remain

 

[P[a]pi]

I don't think I agree with the ban. I mean it's bad enough that some models are underweight, but now they can't work and make money. I think some models plan on being underweight when they are young to make money modeling and then when they stop modeling they'll eat normally again.

It's just like guys taking steriods to help them in sports, so they can make more money. When they retire, they will stop taking steriods.

 

[Cbarton]

It's just like guys taking steriods to help them in sports, so they can make more money. When they retire, they will stop taking steriods.

And spend all their cash on being treated for osteoporosis, liver failure, and cancer....

 

[Hungarian21]

then buy some Viagra. (not that I know...XD)

 

[TheChameleon]

I'm a big fan of letting "the industry" do whatever they want, they don't influence me any.