Braves season over, but they still had a great year

[Mitchell]

Okay, for all of you who are right now laughing up your sleeve saying "Ha, Mitch's team lost again and still has the one World Series win to show for 13 division titles", here is my answer: As most of you know who follow baseball, the Braves lost deciding Game 5 of the division series tonight to the red hot Houston Astros, ending Atlanta's season in the division series Game 5 on their home field for the 3rd year in a row. Although Iam of course disappointed that they lost, Iam very proud of them. In 2004, they lost Slugger Gary Sheffield, Ace Greg Maddux, and several other key players, and still squeaked out 96 wins and an unprecedented 13th straight division title, defying the odds for the 2nd year in a row. They were predicted to finish third in the NL East, and overcame a slow start to have another wonderful regular season. I cant justify the argument that they suck because they have only won one World Series, because any team that wins 13 division titles in a row is something special. Even the mighty Yankees have lost two of the last three World Series after winning the four titles in five years, so good teams do have setbacks. I know that as usual the Braves dont know what their team is going to look like in 2005, but Bobby Cox will still be there, and I believe they will be contenders, and could make the playoffs again. They had a great and unexpected regular season in 2004, after everyone expected the dynasty to end. They are about the best team in baseball over such a long time, through three presidential administrations, and two decades, no team can match that. As for their playoff frustrations, sure it hurts, but I have to look at the long term success. So, Braves, congrats on a great 2004 season, and I look forward to 2005, when Iam sure we will be at least contenders. I hope they have a great winter, and I look forward to more great baseball and tomahawk chops, and war cries come April 2005.

Mitch

 

[Limeoutsider]

YAY

 

[leafstk]

Sorry for your loss, Mitch 😉 But as you know, I'm too busy mourning the loss of NHL hockey right now 🙁

 

[Mitchell]

Thank you, leaf, my friend. Yes, I know about the hockey situation. Hopefully, they can work out some agreement, and have hockey at some point this season. I remember 1994 with no baseball playoffs, it was weird. I hope that they can resolve the situation as quickly as possible, so you can see your sport this season. Thanks for the kind words, and take care, my friend.

Mitch

 

[leafstk]

No problem, Mitch! 😀 And thanks for your condolences as well, it will be eerie up here indeed with no hockey on the tube 🙁 I know its disappointing now, but I know you realize the Braves have been one of the most successful teams of the past 15 years. Only one World Series title is a shame, but you've seen a lot of exciting baseball over the years 😀

 

[jugner]

Well said Mitch.

 

[Mitchell]

Thank you, jugner, much appreciated.

Mitch

 

[naveltkltr1350]

Na Na na NA, Na na na NA, Say-ay good bye! Na na na na, Na na Na NA! say-ay-ay GOOD BYE! as for this year..GO Cardinals, as next year, its the year of the Tribe!

 

[natural tickler]

Well Mitch, if you thought the Braves lost a lot of people last year, you haven't seen anything yet. By the way John Smoltz is talking (who is a free agent btw) he is gone. He said that he is sick of losing to end his season😀

 

[Mitchell]

He is NOT gone. (Shows how much you know about the Braves, natural) He has an automatic clause in his contract where if he pitched in 57 games in 2004, he had an automatic contract for 2005, so hes there next year. As for the other free agents, the only potential major losses we will have is JD Drew and perhaps Jaret Wright. Ortiz is gone and we dont want him, Byrd can leave with no big deal, and if we can re sign JD, and perhaps Wright, who shouldnt cost too much, we will be fine. I would think by now with the losses we've had the last two years (Maddux, Millwood, Glavine, Sheffield, et al) that we still won the division, people would have learned their lessons. Apparently not! If we somehow lose a major free agent, we will find another good one, like last year when we lost Sheff and found Drew, or 2 years ago when we lost Glavine and Millwood and got Ortiz and Hampton. Scherholtz is a genius, and with about the same payroll as 04, I say we will compete and win at least the wild card, and maybe the NL East, so before making your predictions that have no merit, wait to see the makeup of next year's team.

Mitch

 

[natural tickler]

One variable you're forgetting my friend, and that is they are still slashing payroll. And lets get real, shall we?? the only reason the Braves won this year, is because Philly underachieved. I don't see that happening next year, and the Braves are going down. Their 13th is their last😀

 

[Mitchell]

No they are NOT slashing payroll. (Again, statements with no merit) I read an article in the Sporting News which said that their 2005 payroll will be about 75-80 mil, or about the same as 2004. While I admit Philly underachieved, as well as Florida, the Braves still won the division by TEN games. They could win 85 to 90 games in 2005, and still win that division. One doesnt know exactly what Philly will look like either, or Florida, and the Mets and Washington Expos are nothing. Atlanta could well win number 14 in 2005, or at least get the wild card or contend for it. If I know Cox and Scherholtz, they will make the best decisions with the money they have. Everything they touch turns to gold. Look at Hampton, a horrid season in Colorado, two good ones for the Braves. Ortiz, wins 20 and 15, Wright, a 15 game winner who was a reclaimation project, JD Drew, the oft injured outfielder who never put it together, had a monster season, and replaced Sheffield.
I do admit there will be some changes. I would perhaps trade inconsistent Andruw Jones to free up money to keep JD. We have a guy named Eli Marrero who has a potent bat in right, could have JD play center, with new speedster Charles Thomas in left. Our rotation of Thomson, Hampton, Ramierez, and if we re sign Jaret or get another starter will be fine. Smoltz has even said if all else fails he will rejoin the rotation, where he would be a sure 15-20 game winner, as insurance if we lose Ortiz, Wright and Byrd. Every time everyone writes this team off, they come through. I noticed you are from Chicago, are you a Cubs fan? Talk about underachieve? I admit there were injuries, but with a rotation of Maddux, Wood, Prior, Zambrano, et al, you guys should be playing in October instead of sitting home. Your lineup with Sosa and company should have been better then it was. The Cubs, while solid, need changes for 2005, and we will see where they end up at the end of the winter. As for my Braves, I suspect that John S will do the best with what he has to work with, and for 13 years hes done pretty darn good.

Mitch

 

[natural tickler]

You're right, the Cubs did underachieve, and while just a few things needed(closer, left-fielder(JD Drew a possibility), shortstop(if Nomar doesn't resign) and second basemen) besides, with our starting pitching healthy again, we will be back. We still have the starting staff nobody wants to see in the playoffs😀

 

[giantfan121262]

Being a die hard Mets fan, I almost feel like it's the Red Sox playing the Yankees. Everytime we have played them over the years, we never seemed to be able to win when it counts. I do have to recognize the consistency that they have put together over the past 13 years although alot of it was at the Mets expense. Scherholtz deserves the credit for getting the free agents but Cox and Mezzone deserve the credit for their success. Cox by instilling a system that works and Mezzone b/c of his coaching prowess with pitchers. He has ressurected a few careers as well as get the most out of his pitchers. No offense Mitch but every year I hope that the Braves decline so other teams like the Mets can have a chance but no such luck.

AFA Philly goes, the only real major injury I remember is Billy Wagner. There is alot of hols in their line up with guys that strike out, and their pitching wasn't that good. The Mets need to get a young gun or two and need to bring in another good hitter to protect Piazza. I like David Wright at third.

Hey, NT, are you sure that Sosa is going to be with the Cubs come spring training? I hear he may be coming East.

 

[Mitchell]

No offense taken, giant. I know its every fan's goal for their team to get to the playoffs. The Mets problem is that they need more consistent hitting, and younger pitching. Teams dont usually win titles with 39 year old ace pitchers like the Mets have with Leiter and Glavine. Think of it, when the Braves won it all in 95, and through most of the 90s and this run, their starting staff was mostly in their 20s, and then when Glavine and Maddux got old, both left in favor of younger Ortiz, Hampton, Wright, and Thomson.
The one exception to that rule may be the Yankees. The Yankees didnt have a lot of pitching when they first won it in 96, hitting their way, abit not with a lot of power, to the championship. Over the other championships, while their pitching still got older, and they had guys like 37 year old Clemens, they also had Jeter and Bernie who were young, and the young and automatic Rivera. I feel a team needs to have a mix to win it all, and right now, the Mets pitching and their big hitter, Piazza, is too old to accomplish that. With the Braves, Phillies, and Marlins in the East, I just dont see the Mets making a serious run until they get younger pitching, more consistent hitting, and some power. It would be nice if the Mets could climb to say, respectability, of 500 next year, with maybe wild card thoughts by 2006. They have some decent young players, but they need to weed out the older guys and get more consistency, before making a serious run.

Mitch

 

[natural tickler]

Yeah, giantfan, Sosa will be back. First of all, he's got a huge option for 2006 that kicks in if he is traded, and I don't think anyone will pick that up. You know how drama goes, everyone plays the role, patch things up, and its business as usual. The Cubs made a mistake 12 years ago when they let Maddux go, they got him back, and atoned for that mistake. I don't think they'll make the same mistake twice with Sosa, one who I think basically saved baseball😀


AFA the Braves are concerned, yeah, it was a miracle they pulled it off, but it might be harder in 2005 to do it again. Now, I didn't say they can't do it, just saying it might be harder next year

 

[Mitchell]

Okay, natural, I do concede that about it possibly being harder. I also acknowledge that the NL East should have been much closer then it was, because the Phillies and Marlins underacheived. I will say that the Braves were written off for dead two years ago when they let Glavine get away, and traded Millwood in a salary dump. So far, those moves have worked out in favor of the Braves. Glavine had two bad seasons for a terrible team in New York, and Millwood hasnt won even a wild card in Philly, after they were predicted to win the NL East in both 2003 and 2004. I believe that somehow Scherholtz and Cox will find a way to make it work. I do think the Philly may make it a lot closer race next year then it has been the last two years, but as to whether Philly or the Marlins can win the East, the Braves are the reigning 13 year division kings, with 10 straight in the East, and will be so until the day someone officially dethrones them as NL East Champions.

Mitch

 

[giantfan121262]

Philly has too many hols in the line up. There are alot of strikeouts in that line up with Thome, Burrell, and Abrieu. I think Philly starting pitching shows promise but is a little young. Millwood is goos and Brett Myers is an up and coming star.

As much as I hate to say it, the Braves have to be the favorite until somebody beats them. Bobby Cox and Co have a proven system where you can bring nine monkeys, put them out in the field, and they will win.If Smoltz moves in to the rotation to replace, say, Ortiz, who can they get as a closer to replace him? In addition, do you think Smoltz will have the Stamina to go deep into games as a starter? He has been closing the last few years and is only used to pitching one or maybe two innings.

I truly believe that if Prior and Wood were healthy this year the Cubs would have been playing in Oct. Maybe not as a division winner but as a wild card. Natural, let me ask you a question. Even if Sosa stays in Chicago, do you think there is a rift between him and Baker? and, if so, do you think that it's going to negatively impact his performance? I bring up that point cuz his numbers tailed off this year and I read about how Sosa was tired of being blamed for thier short comings. Don't get me wrong, I happen to love the guy. You are right him and McGwire saving base ball in 1998 when the two of them showed nothing but class when they were involved in that home run race.

 

[Mitchell]

Giant makes some good points. Millwood is a free agent, and I dont know if the Phillies are going to re-sign him for big money. Except for Philly and maybe Florida, no one else in that division can even compete with the Braves. You make a good point about Smoltz returning to the rotation. One has to wonder if say, as the ace or top line starter, which he might be considering the defections that are possible, whether his arm is better off pitching 75-80 games for one inning or 35 games for 225-250 innings. He has publicly said he wants to start, but he has done such a lights out job as the closer, and at 38, after several shoulder operations, including Tommy John Surgery, maybe he would be better off closing for say another 3-4 years. I' m ambivalent about the whole thing. If we lose pitchers, which we are sure to, it would be great to see him go back in the rotation, where he's an automatic 15 plus game winner if healthy and he gets run support, which would make up the loss of some of the starters wins who leave. However, if Smoltz starts, you run the risk of him hurting his arm throwing so many innings, and then who do the Braves use for a closer. Alfonseca has closed in the past, and hes not that old, and while he did a nice job for us in middle and late relief this year, I think hes too inconsistent to trust in the 9th if you have aspirations to win a division.
I hope we can at least keep Jaret Wright, and JD Drew. If you do that, you then have Hampton, Wright, Thomson, Ramirez when he comes back, and Cox can find a fifth starter, which we never seem to have even in the best of years. If we can keep Wright and Drew, we will be fine. If not, we will need to find other options to stay on top.

Mitch

 

[natural tickler]

Now looking ito it further the Phillies have no pitching, and now looking in retrospect, the Braves look good to repeat once again. But there's the rub. They are only good to get in the playoffs, not a long sustained run. I would think you need to get a team good enough to go all the way. It seemed to me they were content just making it.

And Giant, I believe this whole situation between Sosa and Baker has been blowed out porportion. They can co-exist, and when they talk it over in the offseason, things will get straigtened out. Remember this, and history is an indicator, whenever a manager says anything to anger Sosa, the next year Sosa has a phenominal season. In '97, Riggleman said something to anger him, we all know what he did in '98. In 2000, before Don Baylor even managed a game, he said Sosa should be a five-tooled player. That angered him, and in '01 he hit 64 homers, and drove in 160. Well, Baker angered him, and just watch what he does next year. The last thing anyone needs to see, is an angry Sosa😀

 

[Mitchell]

natural, I do agree with you about us being good enough to make it, but I disagree about us being "content" with just making it. I dont think any team is content to just make the playoffs. I dont know what the underlying reasons are for our postseason problems. It always seems like we either dont hit, have shoddy bullpen work, have a superstar from another team have a great series, or so forth.
I honestly dont know whether or not we can and will be good enough in 2005 for a sustained run. I dont think we are anywhere near the best team in baseball now. With our ever present payroll cuts every year, we never really know what kind of team we have, or just what to expect from them.

Mitch

 

[giantfan121262]

Natural, I see you back up your point very well with some history and I hope it repeats itself. If the rotation of Wood, Prior, Maddux and Zambrano can stay intact, I don't see them having too many problems.

I think for the Braves sake, they are better off keeping Smoltz in the bullpen as a closer. My concern was his age and stamina but when I read that Smoltz had the Tommy John surgery, that makes me believe even more that he is best suited to close. Use Alfonsaeco as a set up man. Hampton and wright are proven major leaguers, Ramierz shows promise. The biggest thing is they need to find somebody to replace Ortiz.The line up is solid with Drew, chipper, and Furcal (a great lead off hitter) and Perez is a solid backstop. The Braves are definitely the team to beat in that division. With Floridsa pitching though, I think they can make a run next year or definitely the year after.

I wish the Mets had an owner willing to spend a little to bring in a solid 1 or 2 starter and find another left handed bat to create a line up with Floyd, Piazza, Hildago, and whoever.

 

[Mitchell]

A follow up to this issue. It has been well publicized the last two winters about the Braves massive payroll cuts, including a $15 million dollar reduction for 2004. There was just a post of an article in the Atlanta Journal Constitution which quoted Braves hierarchy as stating that the 2005 payroll is going to be the same as 2004, at $82 million dollars. Atlanta does have serious free agent issues. It is likely that starting pitchers Russ Ortiz and Paul Byrd will leave. The Braves top free agent priorities will hopefully be Right Fielder JD Drew and starting pitcher Jaret Wright. The problem is that Drew, coming off his best year, is represented by mega agent Scott Boras, who may demand a multiyear deal at a much greater salary then the 4.2 million he made in 2004. What I would do to accomplish this is to trade inconsistent center fielder Andruw Jones and his high salary, re sign Drew and put him in Center Field, and go with a cheaper option for another outfielder. If they re sign Wright, get another starting pitcher, re sign Drew, and get another outfielder, they will be fine, and hopefully a strong contender in 2005.

Mitch