Can A Hurricane Be Controlled Safely

[DannyMc]

If I understand correctly , a hurricane is started by the temperature of water or air at 82 to 83 degrees . From summer sun , heat causes the water to evaporate and helps to fuel a hurricane . From pictures I've seen they start as thunderstorms off the south west coast of Africa......... If you put a glass of water in the shade and a glass of water in the sun , which glass would land up having more water at the end of a hot summer day , I would take , that it would be the one in the shade "less evaporation" . I thought that since you can see the entire Atlantic ocean from the US to Africa from space , that maybe from space you could block the suns light on certain parts of the Atlantic , not allowing the suns rays to heat the water . Could an array of satelites with those mirror tints we use on our windows , help to refract the suns light and heat keeping those certain shaded parts of the Atlantic cool , thus not allowing the hurricanes to get started in the first place . Could something like this be pulled off from space and does it seem a logical way of taking care of the problem . Also do you think this is going to far by tampering with nature , would this mess up the worlds weather patterns ?

 

[idunno]

I'll post this one on the nintendo forums and see what kind of a reply it gets, and I would suggest posting this on the Mythbusters site, they're sure to test it.

 

[ticklkitten]

There is a reason natural disasters happen. To tamper with them would be a very bad thing.

 

[idunno]

I'll post this one on the nintendo forums and see what kind of a reply it gets, and I would suggest posting this on the Mythbusters site, they're sure to test it.

Now fowarded to the Nintendo forums.

 

[storyteller]

Hurricanes and their aftermath are not pleasant, but I agree with Ticklkitten. Mankind needs to get out of its way and not tamper further with nature.

 

[sabaki]

technology saves lives

I disagree. I think mankind needs to tamper much, much more with nature.

Hard SF is full of ideas such as yours. It's very exciting to think about what we might be able to do some day with technology.

To the posters above: your same arguments work against vaccines for diseases. "There is a reason diseases happen." B.S.. We humans can be masters of our destiny. There's no reason to let innocent people die preventable deaths. And it is conceivable that one day we will be able to prevent them, safely.

To the original poster: by the time we have a Dyson sphere, I'm sure your idea would be trivial to implement. But by that point, we may not be worried about hurricanes so much at all.

 

[storyteller]

I disagree. I think mankind needs to tamper much, much more with nature. ...
To the posters above: your same arguments work against vaccines for diseases. "There is a reason diseases happen." B.S.. We humans can be masters of our destiny. There's no reason to let innocent people die preventable deaths...

Technology only saves lives when it works. I'm all for effective vaccines. I'm not for Man messing with little-understood natural forces. In most cases, hurricane-related deaths ARE ALREADY preventable. In the latter 20th C, great progress was made in hurricane prediction and early warning systems. Today, people have advance warning to evacuate areas where hurricanes are expected to hit. No one needs to die. Deaths tend to occur when (1) people remain in the danger zone, (2) people go to the danger zone because "the surf's up!" or (3) man-made protections against inundating floods fail or are inadequate and the people behind those protective devices have virtually no time to get out of the water's way.

The disaster in New Orleans from 2005's Hurricane Katrina is an example. New Orleans escaped a direct hit. The deaths that occurred there once Katrina had passed resulted from Man's failures, not Nature's wrath.

Until far more is known about what, if any purpose, hurricanes serve in the continual development of the Earth, I prefer that my tax money fund the research and development of ever-improving prediction, tracking, and warning systems; reliable escape routes, levees, and seawalls; and research into the purpose and development of hurricanes.

 

[sabaki]

Until far more is known about what, if any purpose, hurricanes serve in the continual development of the Earth, I prefer that my tax money fund the research and development of ever-improving prediction, tracking, and warning systems; reliable escape routes, levees, and seawalls; and research into the purpose and development of hurricanes.

Yep! These are all better ideas for saving lives than space mirrors.

I guess I misunderstood what you were saying. I hear the "don't tamper with nature!" angle a lot from people who haven't thought it through.

Nevertheless, there may come a time when computation is so advanced that we really do understand the effects of our actions on earth's weather. At that point, we may decide it is cost effective to eliminate all hurricane-related property damage altogether, by some form of weather control.

 

[storyteller]

Nevertheless, there may come a time when computation is so advanced that we really do understand the effects of our actions on earth's weather. At that point, we may decide it is cost effective to eliminate all hurricane-related property damage altogether, by some form of weather control.

Sounds like you're a dreamer, sabaki. So am I. Have you described your Neverland yet on the Do You Believe in Magic thread? If not, please do. I'd be interested to read it.

 

[sabaki]

Sounds like you're a dreamer, sabaki. So am I. Have you described your Neverland yet on the Do You Believe in Magic thread? If not, please do. I'd be interested to read it.

😉 You're right that I'm a dreamer; after I read Accelerando there was no going back. A(nother) Singularity may never occur, but what if it did...?

One thing you have to admit. Computational ability is accelerating, and we still have a while to go before we hit the physical limits. If society doesn't somehow annihiliate itself, the world of a century from now has the potential be an unimaginable wonderland. At that point, weather control will be a trivial issue.

Also, I feel I should add that I like puppies. 😀 😀

 

[storyteller]

😉 You're right that I'm a dreamer; after I read Accelerando there was no going back. A(nother) Singularity may never occur, but what if it did...?

One thing you have to admit. Computational ability is accelerating, and we still have a while to go before we hit the physical limits. If society doesn't somehow annihiliate itself, the world of a century from now has the potential be an unimaginable wonderland. At that point, weather control will be a trivial issue.

Also, I feel I should add that I like puppies. 😀 😀

Still laughing because of your close! I like puppies, and kittens, too. Will have to look up the book you mentioned. Big if above. I prefer the unimaginable wonderland to annihilation any day!

 

[sabaki]

new thread topic: kittens

Kittens are the best.

This book is online. Accelerando by C. Stross. It and many others have changed the way I look at the future.

I don't believe in magic, btw. But you know that famous Arthur C. Clarke quote...? 😉

 

[Goodieluver]

Mankind has dammed rivers and the aftermath has been deadly flooding during bad rainstorms over the years down the miss river and such....also maxim touched on this question

A guy asked could u stop a hurricane by droppin an atom bomb in the eye

they said no

 

[storyteller]

Kittens are the best.

This book is online. Accelerando by C. Stross. It and many others have changed the way I look at the future.

I don't believe in magic, btw. But you know that famous Arthur C. Clarke quote...? 😉

Thanks for the book info. Can't say that I did know the quote, but a Google search took me to Wikipedia's bio of Arthur C. Clarke and it included two quotes by him. I'm guessing the one to which you referred is,

"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from Magic."

Mankind has dammed rivers and the aftermath has been deadly flooding during bad rainstorms over the years down the miss river and such....also maxim touched on this question

A guy asked could u stop a hurricane by droppin an atom bomb in the eye

they said no

Yep. Reminds me of the old margarine commercials--Parkay, I think--where the key line was, "It's not nice to fool Mother Nature!"

I don't know who "maxim" is, but I've heard the atom bomb dropped in the hurricane's eye question and response before. Why anyone would think that was a less destructive solution...

 

[DannyMc]

Reading some of the answers got me thinking , technology has seemed in many ways to serve us well . I agree that how you build it , plays a major role in how it works . Things that may seems as going against the natural order of things , submarines , space stations , flight . Technological wonders , Hoover Dam , Panama Canal , Empire State Building , Space Shuttle , Apollo Space Missions and any number of deep space probes such as Voyager 1 & 2 . Where we live has always had a natural order of things and it seems to prove true that as long as the limits are understood , we as the human race can use and work with nature in a safe and harmonizing way .......... PS............ I believe in the advancements around us as long as their tested and safe . I believe in looking and moving forward.......

 

[TklDuo-Ann]

I think Kitten is correct. Tampering with nature is dangerous. All we have to do is look at the devastation left behind by Katrina last year. But, that was a hurricane, you say? True. It was a hurricane. BUT...It would have done much less danage if it weren't for us and our technology. The dams and such that have been set up over the last decades have ended the annual replenishment of the wetlands in the gulf, effectively eliminating their ability to be a buffer for storms like Katrina. We've disturbed the natural flow of things. The earth has a way of healing itself. But, when we make that impossible, things like this will happen. Many call it progress. I call it stupidity, arrogance and shortsightedness. There are ways to develope areas without disturbing the natural flow of things. We'd spend a lot less in the long run if we developed with nature instead of against it.

Ann

 

[Capnmad]

A similar idea was once proposed, though for different purposes. There once was consideration I'd heard of for an idea to create a gigantic solar reflector and place it in orbit around the Earth. With one or several of these working in concert, in the event of a missing-person situation, search teams could be aided by redirected sunlight, and have daylight around the clock. It wouldn't be too far fetched, by extension, to create a giant solar shade to inhibit hurricane growth or weaken their strength.

I'll leave for debate whether it's a good or bad idea.

 

[tickledgirl]

Two questions here: Is it a good idea? That's an interesting question, and has triggered some cool debate above.

Is it feasible? Nope. We've got nothing close to the tech need to cool thousands of square miles (or km^2) of ocean.

Stross talks about amazing changes in how information is handled, and what that'd mean for humans. But the physical world isn't going to change. No matter how you compute it, that's still a lot of water to cool.

 

[DannyMc]

I thought about the size of the ocean and I figured that being far enough out in space would compensate for the size . I tried something . I took a piece of paper and picked a spot on the ground and held the paper up blocking
the sun with it . I moved the piece of paper closer to the spot on the ground and farther away , also I turned the paper at diffrent angles , kind of like holding your hand and moving it in front of a flashlight and seeing the difference of the shadow on the wall . I mentioned an array of satelites ( used or abandoned) meaning many of them set together to cause the shading effect . One example of shading the earth in a certain place would be an eclipse . Much of this set up would need many calculations ....distance , size , amount of light and temperature of the ocean . Also must keep in mind the temperature difference to keep safe the ecology .

 

[Capnmad]

Two questions here: Is it a good idea? That's an interesting question, and has triggered some cool debate above.

Is it feasible? Nope. We've got nothing close to the tech need to cool thousands of square miles (or km^2) of ocean.

Stross talks about amazing changes in how information is handled, and what that'd mean for humans. But the physical world isn't going to change. No matter how you compute it, that's still a lot of water to cool.

Agreed. Large volume of water to cool. However, experimental spacecrafts have been designed with expansive, thin and lightweight "solar sails" meant to generate momentum by using solar wind... Expansive shades made of a similar opaque film are not beyond the realm of possibility -- it's only a matter of keeping them in place -- which is more a matter of changing orbit than keeping them perfectly still.

Feasible now? Hell no. The shuttle system's beyond its last gasps here. Feasible for planning? Yes. Feasible for release in 20 years? If NASA wanted to, I don't see why not.

Personally, I'm not much one for f'ing with mother nature myself, but it's kind of hard to stop now. We've been doing it for tens of thousands of years. Perhaps the most distressing feats recently, however: Innoculations and the increasing overuse of antibiotics that are evolving tougher superbugs could well put us all in our graves. You have to ask yourself, how do you want your deaths? Piecemeal and gradually as we've done for millenia, or all together in cataclysm? Our continued use of ever stronger antibiotics tells me we made our decision to put off our deaths in favor of superbugs decades ago. Staph infections at hospitals are getting worse, there's several killer strains of influenza (a rapidly mutating virus), and HIV also mutates rapidly, so while with our current chemical cocktails it may look like it's down, don't count it out just yet.

 

[tickledgirl]

Better not just be opaque, or it'll melt. It needs to absorb vanishingly close to 0% of the radiation. And as you point out, the experiements (key word there, this is unproven tech) are with sails. The sails work because there is pressure so you'll have to be continually thrusting to counter that pressure.

Then of course you're sticking it at the top of a gravity well, so there's going to be lots of little (and not so little) debris punching holes in it all the time. That better not degrade the material in a way that makes it opaque, or your shield burns up. And you'll have to have some way to do daily repairs...in geosynchronous orbit. (Way, way above where the shuttle goes.)

Danny, try aiming the shadow from your piece of paper at a spinning ball. Now move that spinning ball around the light source. Now remember that the paper has to be incredibly thin so you'd better be very gentle with it as you manuver it around. But oops, remember the light's pressing on it all the time too, and the pressure vector varies depending on the time of day.

Doable in 20 years? I doubt it. Maybe if we dropped started a full-out effort today...without wondering if it's a good idea or if the side effects be worse than the cure. So doable? Doubtful. Feasible? No way.

 

[sabaki]

Stross talks about amazing changes in how information is handled, and what that'd mean for humans. But the physical world isn't going to change. No matter how you compute it, that's still a lot of water to cool.

Eh? No, of course it's not feasible today. Storyteller listed a bunch of better methods for saving lives.

Stross is talking about the Singularity, which means not just changes in computation, but yes, the physical world around us. If we can talk about dismantling entire planets and building them into giant brain complexes, or making enormous spheres around the sun to harness it's total energy output, then something like cooling an ocean is really a simple exercise.

Dreaming? Sure. With a topic title like "Can a Hurricane be Controlled" I was free to dream. The OP's method is imaginative (though unrealistic), and I admire that imagination.

 

[unit5610]

Gotta agree with ticklekitten about messing with nature, and with Ann about how development is one of the main causes of more devastation from hurricanes. Marshes and coastal bayous do a lot to absorb or at least slow down storm surges and other types of flooding, and the channels, levees and general paving of sources that comes with development wipes out these natural mitigators of disaster.
I do think it will be possible sometime to phyically lessen the impact of severe storms, but what consequences that may have elsewhere no one would know. It could end up being worse than what was avoided. The atmosphere has a habit of evening things out, which is basically why hurricanes form in the first place.
Sorry for the long rant but as a meteorologist and environmental planner I couldn't resist!

 

[tickledgirl]

Dreaming? Sure. With a topic title like "Can a Hurricane be Controlled" I was free to dream.

Oops, my mistake. I thought you were talking about hurricanes, not dreams. Mea culpa.

 

[Redmage]

Cooling the surface of the oceans? Not likely. Bear in mind, a lunar eclipse casts a shadow over only a relatively small portion of the earth's surface. And that is with a "sun shade" the size of the moon. Since a shadow gets larger the further away the shade is, any satellite closer than the moon would have to be even larger to shade the same area. So we'd have to assemble, launch, and control a group of satellites larger than the visible cross-section of the moon (3.6 million square miles). I don't think this is practical enough to worry about for a long, long time.