Commission questions

[Celtic_Emperor]

Alright, short and sweet (well maybe not sweet, but whatever)-

I've been asked to, or rather it was proposed to me by a group member of mine that they would be willing to pay me money to draw their request(s).

I made a mistake in telling them I'd consider it, because I somehow forgot one very important thing- I can't charge money to create copyrighted characters and personas even if I honor the copyrights and make sure to brand the picture with the copyright of the owner of the material. Thats illegal, right? If it is, which it sure seems it is, it would also be a conflicting issue of morals for me even if I could do it under the table and get away with it (which I probably could given the fact that hardly anyone but the owners and sympathizers care).

When next the requestee posts I'll have to tell him no, and arrange something else instead.

My second question is am I limited to original creations when charging a fee? What does copyright law have to say about any of this that I might not already know?

Any REAL help would be greatly appriciated as would actual advice, rather than linkage to something I may have already seen or read. Thanks 🙂

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

It was also mentioned to me just now that I might consider "donations" instead of commissions. The only problem with that is theres really no incentive to donate like there is with a personalized art piece. Donations would also not be coming in fast enough or enough period. Judging from the generousity I've seen from the tickling community alone, I shouldn't expect much in the way of donations (no offense or anything).

Any other things you can think of that might work and a profit could still be made if desired?

An obvious choice is allowing original creations to be used for a commission request. The only problem I have with that is that I'd be compromising my characters and potentially destroying them by drawing them how any given requestee might want them drawn. Unless they are some sort of 'universal' character that can be used for all sorts of things, I don't see the good in this. Especially if I plan (which I do) to maintain a consistancy with my characters, their personas, and the plot/storylines they may be in. I don't think I'd want to create cheap characters who only fulfill the role the requestee wants. That would ammount to harlotry of my creations. LOL!

The only thing that seems permissable is allowing for suggestions for what to include in future projects/issues. Although I doubt it would be legitimate to ask for money in return for including these instances which otherwise would not appear in the manga or whatever.

I have, we all have, very few options when it comes to this.

 

[Myst]

I fear I cannot give any advice on this matter as if I was to draw here, I do it because I enjoy it and like to make others happy.

If I want to draw for money, I take jobs for video games, doing concept art or illustrations..something like that.

I would say that it's your choice, yes, it is illegal to draw copyrighted characters for profit. As for your original characters I agree whole-heartedly.

My best suggestion is that you put doing this aside, draw when you can, and live your life. Yourself first, then the TMF. But that's just me.

I would try to give better advice, but I haven't slept in 5 days...so im going to sleep...bye ^^;;

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

For you not having slept in five days, your making a whole lot of sense. Go get some sleep already! You don't want to have problems!

I agree with what you said, although I want to make something clear about something you said. And thats-

"I fear I cannot give any advice on this matter as if I was to draw here, I do it because I enjoy it and like to make others happy.

If I want to draw for money, I take jobs for video games, doing concept art or illustrations..something like that."


I have been doing this for myself and for you all since 2002 non-begrudgingly and with a sense of well-being. If I was that unhappy with this I would have put an end to it much sooner. But you must be really tired, so its ok. 🙂

Overall though, I've been doing this long enough for free, enough to a point where it wouldn't be wrong to ask for money in return or do only commissions. If I would have asked or demanded monotary compensation in the early going then I would have been contemptable, or maybe not. Theres nothing wrong it. I just assume it makes people uncomfortable when they were/are use to free services and the thought of losing that (because they might not be able to pay for it or won't want to) might change how they think about the artist or owner of said material.

There are people here now making money off of something they enjoy doing. They obviously aren't getting rich doing it but seem to enjoy it. I'd be no different.

While I appriciate your candor, I feel you're putting too much emphasis on me personally. This is more about what I can and cannot do within the limits of copyright law. I already knew it was illegal, what I was asking, but I asked for the sake of perhaps someone telling me even more. Perhaps something I'm not aware of. If it happens that I already know most of what I'd need to know to proceed safely, then this thread is pointless. LOL

Some feedback wouldn't hurt though. That always helps. And thank you for taking the time to say something. Really though, get some sleep!

 

[Kenjisan]

Ok. Heres my take on this. Technically, like you assumed, accepting money for drawing copyrighted characters IS illegal. HOWEVER, most anime companies and distributers here simply don't care. You could easily get away with doing commision's for copyrighted characters with no interference.

Just look at the dojinshi market in Japan as an example. And granted, that is Japan and they have different copyright laws, but I guarantee you most companies here will carry the same attitude.

There are a few exceptions though. I remember one instance where "cutepet.org", a site made by two very respectable american anime fan artists , was issued a cease and desist from Working Designs(American distrib. of the Lunar games among others) to stop doing commisions of the characters that they posess the ameriacan rights to. But prior to that, they had been doing commisions for all sorts of animes without a problem.

WD's main beef was not so much the commisions as much as the fact that the pics were heavily pornographic and could be potentially damaging to their property. It is also worth taking into account that Victor Ireland, the president of Working Designs, is one of the biggest bastards in the gameing industry.

As I've said, most anime companies really won't care if some artist with a yahoo group does commissions for tickling art.

But if you DO decide to do it and you want to be on the safe side, there are a few things to keep in mind.

#1. Keep operations small. If you end up making tens of thousands of dollars from this, a company most likely WILL intervene.

#2 Don't accept commissions for mainstream properties. (I.E. DragonballZ, Pokemon.......)

#3 Avoid drawing anything too erotic.

#4 Keep in mind the company who has rights to the property. You wouldn't want to draw any thing from a Disney or Sony production but most anime companies have better things to worry about.

#5 Avoid drawing characters owned by bastard video game companies. *cough* Working designs *cough*

I say go for it. Seriously, if anyone does have a problem, the worst that can happen right off is a cease and desist order. Hope this helps you in some way.

 

[rajee]

😀 CE, send Fttickle a private message. Fttickle is a 2nd year law student. 😀

 

[Hahathna]

Speaking as someone who has paid for a ton of commissions, it is considered acceptable for you, the artist, to charge for commissions because you are selling the physical piece of artwork. You are not selling the character or the rights to reproduce the artwork in any form (that even includes showing it on the net).

By the strictest definition of copyright law, it is infringement, but the company has to 1) know about it, and 2) tell you to cease and desist doing it. This is a problem because companies cannot selectively enforce their copyrights. If they go after one artist, they have to go after all artists, which would be a nightmare logistically, cost them lots of money in legal fees, and alienate freelance artists. The only companies that would be jerky enough to do it would be Disney or Paramount. I know for a fact that the big two comic companies - DC and Marvel - take a "don't ask, don't tell" attitude towards art commissions. So long as you aren't trying to sell reproductions of the artwork, they pretty much let it slide under the radar.

So my suggestion is, ask the people what they plan to do with the art. If they plan to put it up on the web for $$$, tell them they can't do that... it's illegal. If they plan to show it for free, then it depends on how you feel about that. If they plan to keep it in their own collection, then there really shouldn't be a problem.

That's my advice, and it's free of charge. Just remember that free advice is worth exactly what you paid for it. ^_^

Hahathna

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

Wow, lots of advice, thanks peeps. 🙂

@ Kenjisan- Yeah, I know about cutepet. I actually have their CG tutorial cd. I've had it for a few years and never really used it other than to read it. It would be difficult to use it now too, because its taught under the assumption that you are using PS, which I don't have. Hopefully when I get PS the cd will live out its usefulness. 🙂

As far as the fiasco between that company and cutepet, I can see where that would be an extreme circumstance.

However, as you, and possibly everyone does or should know, I don't create pornography. And if I were to someday get into drawing nudity, it would be in good taste. I've always been one to respect, admire, and honor the original artists and creators of specific anime characters and series in every way humanly possible. I would be just as much taking commissions to further the cause and popularity of that series as I would to fulfill my wants as well as those of the requestee and the community in general. This is my sentiment regardless of the medium or genre to which and for which I am and would be drawing.

Thank you for the persective and rules of thumb. You seem pretty sophisticated about this. 🙂


@ rajee- Thanks. I might just do that. 🙂


@ Hahathna- Thanks for helping me sort this out. It really does boil down to me afterall. Once again it becomes a question of whether or not I want to do the right thing and be a goody-two-shoes, or do something a little underhanded and devious...I'm so conflicted about this. But thank you for saying what you have. I needed that. It was good advice.

@ everyone- Are there any artists here that would be willing to give their imput? That would help me even further. Someone who has dealt with this time and time again or more than a few times would like to be heard as well. 🙂

 

[ShadowTklr]

You do have one other very simple and comletely legal alternative. Simply draw the characters requested without any identifiable markings that may distinguish the original from your interpretation. With anime art, most of those characters look like Japanese interpretations of Precious Moments dolls anyway, so just change the outfit a tad, or omit the ribbons in the hair, etc. This way, you're not infringing on the copyright, and at the same time, both you and the commissioner know who the character really is.

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

Thanks for the suggesting, but no thanks. Thats something I wouldn't want to do. As it has apparently been implied I can expect to get away with this without getting in trouble. Therefore it would seem theres no reason to omit things which distinguish a character, or other nuances, mannerisms, gimmicks, or trademarks they may have.

I think whats important to note is that I'm not planning to change the characters. I've never done that. I'm not bastardizing the creator's work by recreating it, profit or not, and I can't see my approach as anything of a besmerchment of the characters and their creators.

Now if I was to totally warp and change a character both physically and otherwise, to make her or him what I want them to be, then thats clearly a violation in my book.