Disclosure?

[HXCkid]

Okay so for a while now i've been noticing a trend. More people are talking about Disclosure. Disclosure with a capital D as in the government coming clean about supposed Alien affairs/technology etc. Now for years people have been going on about conspiracy theories and maybe the election of Obama coupled with the 2012 hype is adding to the situation, but the people talking about it arent toothless hicks in trailers or meth heads, these are respected people with proven credentials. Ex-Military officials, Scientists, Astronaughts, Politicians, Spiritual leaders, etc. And some of these folks arent just "talking" about it, some of these Ex-military claim that it is an undisputed fact that something is going on, some even go as far to say they know EXACTLY whats going on, but all the stories usually conflict so everything has to be taken with a grain of salt especially something like this, but at the same time you have to give credit where credit is due and im more likely to believe an ex-military officer than some quack who's been "channeling" aliens.(Though sometimes these can be the same thing.)

One example of this is the fact that quite afew ex-airforce people came out afew weeks back and had a press conference in DC about UFO's messing with our nukes. Of course the mainstream media barely mentioned it but...

Regardless, even despite all the supposed people "in the know" coming out the mainstream HAS been a bit more "warm" towards the subject. The Vatican coming out and making statements, A discovery of a potentially habitable planet, an increase in sightings worldwide, webbot predictions etc.

All this might just be hype but it seems every week something new is coming out about this stuff. You can not put stock in the "Modern oracle" of the internet (Webbots) but they have had "hits" as well as misses, and they have been pointing to disclosure. Also if you're familiar with the guy who does "backward speech" stuff, he supposedly predicted Iraq from a bush speech 3 years before it happened. When he did the same thing to Obama he got stuff about Alien saucers.

So... as usual nothing is really "concrete" but things are certainly getting more "credible" and is slowly gaining attention. As mentioned this could all be backlash from 2012 hysteria and Obama Change syndrome, but with all this stuff coming out there HAS to be something to it... am I wrong?

 

[PurpleStyle]

I have a question, and this may just reflect my vast misunderstanding of the nature of human people. Making the assumption aliens capable of (relatively quick) interstellar travel exist, and that they have visited the Earth: Why is it so important that the government covers up their existence?

 

[the_jimmy_james]

Anything having to do with the 2012 crap loses credibility by the nanosecond. That mess is such a crock of shit that it's hard not to just bust out laughing whenever I hear it mentioned.

To believe in such a thing is a sign of extreme mental and social retardation.

http://www.2012hoax.org/

 

[HXCkid]

I have a question, and this may just reflect my vast misunderstanding of the nature of human people. Making the assumption aliens capable of (relatively quick) interstellar travel exist, and that they have visited the Earth: Why is it so important that the government covers up their existence?

Theres multiple reasons. Number one this would have happened during the beginning of the Cold war. If you were the government would you want it getting out during that time that interstellar objects are violating our airspace with impunity? Or considering what people did during that War of the Worlds broadcast, avoid mass panic? That was then though.

Now I would assume the government wouldnt want it getting out at the PRESENT time because of the potential technology they would have. We would no longer be dependent on oil as well as who knows what else. In other words its too maintain the status quo.

Also keep in mind when I say "government" I dont neccessarily mean the US, or the Obama administration I mean the international military industrial complex and the top wealthiest people in the world.

Keep in mind this is just theory im not saying its fact or fiction.

 

[HXCkid]

Anything having to do with the 2012 crap loses credibility by the nanosecond. That mess is such a crock of shit that it's hard not to just bust out laughing whenever I hear it mentioned.

To believe in such a thing is a sign of extreme mental and social retardation.

http://www.2012hoax.org/

I'm not saying OMG THE WORLD IS ENDING 2012 but it IS a cultural and social factor at this time. TBH this subject goes way deeper than just "2012" and im not blind to the fact that every few years or so some trend pertaining to the supposed apocolypse pops up, and never amounts to anything. So until I actually SEE a giant tidal wave coming up the coast I'm gonna take it with an ENORMOUS grain of salt.

 

[Slant]

In Britain, we tend to view whomever's in charge at any given point as being so incompetent they couldn't possibly cover anything up if they tried. It would probably be found immediately in a document on an unsecured laptop left by a civil servant on the tube.

More directly, I don't get most of what you're talking about. Who are these scientist and astonauts that have made statements about... whatever it is? What has the Vatican said, apart from "oh yeah, we should probably do something about the paedophilia" and "the money was just resting in the account!" And this 2012 thing is something to do with the Mayan calendar predicting some cataclysmic event, isn't it? Don't you think if that had more credibility, it might have spread a little more... internationally? (And no, that movie doesn't count...)

 

[the_jimmy_james]

I'm not saying OMG THE WORLD IS ENDING 2012 but it IS a cultural and social factor at this time. TBH this subject goes way deeper than just "2012" and im not blind to the fact that every few years or so some trend pertaining to the supposed apocolypse pops up, and never amounts to anything. So until I actually SEE a giant tidal wave coming up the coast I'm gonna take it with an ENORMOUS grain of salt.

No no no!! I'm not saying you're one of the deluded! You seem to be asking a reasonable question. I'm just calling the 2012 hoax out for being extra-moronic is all! Didn't mean to direct it at you!

But also, I know whatcha mean. But there's always gonna be lots of "evidence" that things are getting more and more real by the moment, though. I guess that I've just never really seen anything (evidence, anecdotal or scientific; personal experiences, visions, strange lights in the sky; or even considered historical documentation) that makes me believe that we've actually, truly been visited by extraterrestrials.

I don't deny it's possible, though!

 

[HXCkid]

In Britain, we tend to view whomever's in charge at any given point as being so incompetent they couldn't possibly cover anything up if they tried. It would probably be found immediately in a document on an unsecured laptop left by a civil servant on the tube.

More directly, I don't get most of what you're talking about. Who are these scientist and astonauts that have made statements about... whatever it is? What has the Vatican said, apart from "oh yeah, we should probably do something about the paedophilia" and "the money was just resting in the account!" And this 2012 thing is something to do with the Mayan calendar predicting some cataclysmic event, isn't it? Don't you think if that had more credibility, it might have spread a little more... internationally? (And no, that movie doesn't count...)

I was speaking more of diclosure than 2012 and it kinda has gotten popular internationally only in certain circles. as for the Vatican...

Well basically the Vatican made a statement two years ago that belief in Aliens does not negate a belief in God.

Afew months ago, maybe even last month the Popes Astronomer said "He would be happy to baptize aliens if they came."

Afew days later the Vatican gets investigated for "Money Laundering" now im not denying that they money launder im almost 100% they do, but since when in their thousand something year history has any government said something to them about it? Sounds like what they were saying set someone off or its at least a motive.

Why would they say these things out of left field? or rather randomly. Almost seems like their preparing the sheep or at least covering their theological bases.




5 examples off the top of my head.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BtmpaM0PqyI

Ex US air force coming out and talking about UFO's and nukes at the National press club in Washington DC.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0cimLX54S0

Edgar Mitchell a respected Nasa astronaught Admitting it.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrRUuxSA20I

Buzz Aldrin another Astronaught basically admitting theirs an artificial structure on one of mars' moons.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7vyVe-6YdUk

Disclosure conference from 2001 which had many airtraffic controllers, ex-military etc admit it.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQQmceXNV4k

Potential earthlike planet found afew days ago.



Why havent you heard about it? Because people dont want it to be known.

And hasnt britain recently released its UFO files? I'm not accusing the "governments" as we know them to be behind said cover up if one indeed exists. Also I might have misinterpreted you're post. You were talking about the whole 2012 thing, well this might have something to do with the subject but is not the subject in that of itself, so we really dont need to talk about 2012 as I dont put too much stock in it myself.

 

[HXCkid]

@innerjamie

Well you cant convince everyone of it, I do believe theres something going on and that theirs too much... "Documentation" perhaps? Its happened too many times for all of them to be hoaxes.

 

[PurpleStyle]

Buzz Aldrin didn't explicitly say it was an artificial structure. He called it a monolith. I mean no offense, but that kind of comment seems incredibly biased. I just don't see what the government (which originally was put in place to take care of the people) would gain from keeping the existence of aliens a secret. I also do not believe that if ETIs visited the Earth, that other nations would keep it such a secret.

EDIT: By the way, in the interest of giving your argument a fair listen, I am going to watch that 2 hour disclosure video. 😉

 

[HXCkid]

@ Purple. I would have rather you looked at the more recent video of the press conference the other day, as its much more recent and less spectacular in its claims, like I said I take everything with a grain of salt, but the disclosure video does give a broad look at things. Also that guy who sings in the beginning is fucking weird.

As for Buzz Aldrin? He did not explicitly state that the monolithe was artificial, but I think it was pretty obvious he was implying it was. Why else would people ask "Who put that there?" if its just some random rock formation on phobos or deimos? True he says "Well the universe put it there, or if you choose God put it there..." but I think he was kinda backpedaling after he realized what exactly he was implying.

Also why would a government hide things from its people? I gave you a valid theory on a logical reason why they would at first. (The cold war, national security, maintaining the peace" etc) But You misunderstand me. I'm not saying "The government" itself is keeping this under wraps neccessarily. I believe Obama is clueless as are most presidents who come in, to this sort of thing, because the military has basically been bought out, plus our government is ran by speacial interests. Its not the "Government" but autonomous "parts" of it. For instance The military pays a company to develope weapons, technology, etc. That company all of a sudden holds a stake in the government, and as a result can kind of "steer" things in the general direction it wants to go. Since Companies are much more free to do what they wish than the government, this can go unchecked. Thusly we have sort of a "hybridization" of free-enterprise/and government,which allows certain "parts" of the government to act indepedently of others at times.(Namely the Military and Intelligence agencies.) the term MIGHT be beurocracy(sp?) im not sure. This isnt even taking into consideration speacial interest groups and lobbyists who hold sway over almost every politician.

 

[PurpleStyle]

It seems like a far-fetched assumption to make that if we were visited by aliens, only a select few people would be aware of this. This kind of thing just wouldn't be kept out of newspapers. Though, this assumes that they would visit us for some purpose in the first place. If you really sit down and try to rationalize the idea, it doesn't make much sense. If there are aliens capable of interstellar travel, why would they bother coming here? Other uninhabited planets are rich in resources.

 

[HXCkid]

It seems like a far-fetched assumption to make that if we were visited by aliens, only a select few people would be aware of this. This kind of thing just wouldn't be kept out of newspapers. Though, this assumes that they would visit us for some purpose in the first place. If you really sit down and try to rationalize the idea, it doesn't make much sense. If there are aliens capable of interstellar travel, why would they bother coming here? Other uninhabited planets are rich in resources.

Well its not so far fetched that it would be kept secret for the simple fact people still refuse to take it seriously. Also money and politics is a factor in what gets put in the media and the newspapers. Plus if the media does not take it seriously simply due to the subject matter, regardless of the claims made,they will not report it, thus no one will take it seriously. The biggest reason why the disclosure conference didnt get too far was that later that same year 9/11 happened and honestly whos gonna pay attention to a story about Aliens when fucking terrorists just crashed a bunch of planes into various places in the country? (Might be interesting to note that the woman who spoke of the "weaponization" of space claimed that the Government would use several scapegoats to keep things going, The russians, then the terrorists, then rogue nations. The cold war, 9/11, and iraq seem to fit this bill but it is perhaps just a coincidence)

Regardless if you looked at the video some of the claims were fucking spectacular, I'm not saying I buy every single story, but if 21 credible people came forward and said the same thing, there would have to be something to it, much less the other witnesses. Plus this was done at the national press club in Washington it wasnt some back alley power point presentation, the sources are checked, and they have nothing to gain. (If they are proven to be lying they would all be ruined.) There have been mass sightings, a politician even admitted he saw the "Pheonix lights" which was a mass sighting back in the mid 90's I believe. This has been going on for at least 70-80 years. True alot of it is hoaxes, conspiracy nuts, and just generally ridiculous things, but if its persisted this long and has so many witnesses there HAS to be something to that and only ONE of thousands upon thousands perhaps millions of claims has to be factual for it apply.

I am aware Occam's Razor applies but The absence of evidence is not evidence of absence either.

finally as to why come to earth? who knows? we probably couldnt even comprehend their "motives" maybe they have some sort of stake in the planet or in our species? maybe this planet has particular resources they need and is conveniently posistioned. Maybe their just curious? Maybe their concerned with our hostility and rate of technological growth? There can be an infinite amount of reasons why we would be visited. Obviously if you have the capacity for Superluminal travel you can really do whatever you want just for the hell of it.

 

[Journia]

This kind of thing just wouldn't be kept out of newspapers.

Serious question here: Did anyone read in the nwewqspaper about the UFO that was running around the airport? In China?

why would they bother coming here? Other uninhabited planets are rich in resources.

Wow, talk about a long lineage of acquisitory ideal.
So, you're saying that people visit other countries just to suck its resources?

 

[HXCkid]

@ journia yeah China has been getting a massive amount of sightings lately, probably more than anywhere else in the world at this point. (The last year or two anyway.)

 

[JackVanderson]

I think that there is other life out there in the universe, to think that we are the only ones out of millions upon millions of planets and planet-like bodies in the universe it's quite arrogant to say that we'd be the only ones who could achieve sentience.

When it comes to other life in the universe contacting us I think they may have back when we were a fledgling planet during our caveman era, mostly for observational purposes. However much like in Star Trek or Star Ocean (for the gamers), if other life has thrived in the universe then they must have something established something like the "Prime Directive" or "Underdeveloped Planet Preservation Pact" that basically says that an advanced civilization cannot interfere with a lower level planet, that the planet must develop on its own.

It's kinda weird to think about with our technology today, but if you compare us to the kind of technology that a space dwelling race that has made interstellar travel economical and practical, then we are like cavemen in comparison.

 

[HXCkid]

Like I said theres so much damn evidence to the contrary that SOMETHING has to be to this phenominon. On an interesting note a retired Norad officer who wrote a book pertaining to contact claimed that today (oct 13th) there would be a world wide mass sighting. Well its 12:15 PM where I am, and its already thursday in some countries, I think that if aliens were to show up on a certain date they would show up when it was oct 13th everywhere. Regardless the guy who claimed this also claimed that the Earths atmosphere is 9% carbon dioxide currently and is increasing by 1% every year, that is extremely wrong, any amount of research taken will tell you that the amount of carbon dioxide in the Earths atmosphere is more like 0.0381%. Not even close to what this guy claimed, and im positive its not increasing by a full 1% each year. Taking that into account I think the guy is full of copious amounts of shit, despite his credibility. BUT for some reason I think Russia took his book seriously and the government has been studying it.

The guy also claimed that he was told this via "channeling" (lol dismissive as evidence right off the bat.) But he also stated that "if he were lying he would not sell his book", so he was confident if it didnt happen today it would happen sometime before the years end. (Which does fit in with alot of what is being said in the rumour mill.) So either he really is somehow communicating with ET's, is ridiculously stupid and is trying to make a quick buck by making some crazy prediction to sell books, or is delusional. But if he was a Norad officer shouldnt he have some trust given?

 

[PurpleStyle]

Wow, talk about a long lineage of acquisitory ideal.
So, you're saying that people visit other countries just to suck its resources?

I'm not even sure how to appropriately respond to that. xD This may seem like a projection of our concerns and logic, but I put it into a cost-benefit analysis perspective. If you're hunting for off-world resources, what's the fastest and cheapest way to acquire them? The nearest uninhabited world, or one that's over 100 trillion miles away?

The guy also claimed that he was told this via "channeling" (lol dismissive as evidence right off the bat.) But he also stated that "if he were lying he would not sell his book", so he was confident if it didnt happen today it would happen sometime before the years end. (Which does fit in with alot of what is being said in the rumour mill.) So either he really is somehow communicating with ET's, is ridiculously stupid and is trying to make a quick buck by making some crazy prediction to sell books, or is delusional. But if he was a Norad officer shouldnt he have some trust given?

Your arguments appear to be a series of overlapping contradictions. First you say that the government is covering things up. Then perhaps it's the military. Then, you give credence to members of these same organizations (ex-military officers, ex-politicians) when they specifically say that they've seen something they can't explain/think has to do with aliens? These individuals that you attribute credentials to, spent their entire careers belonging to the government/military.

Allow me to speculate on a hypothetical situation: have you considered that these people coming forward with UFO nonsense are following orders, to get you looking in another direction? We know the US government and military have a stake in keeping some of their technology a secret. Two examples off the top of my head are the B-2 Spirits and SR-71 Blackbirds. The situation may be much less extraordinary than you think.

In other words, no, some ex-NORAD officer should not be given more trust than other people. If he cannot provide evidence better than eyewitness testimony, or some grainy videos, he's going to get laughed at.

 

[HXCkid]

@ purple. I know it may seem like im contradicting myself, but im only trying to present both sides of this. (Skeptical and Open minded.) But I guess I will say what I think just so theirs no confusion.

Like I said before. The military has been partially privatized and compartmented to such an extent that the President or the legislature is not neccessarily in charge of these compartments anymore due to the fact that one needs to have "Clearence" given from some unknown authority in order to get said information. As a result it is both the "Government", "Military", and "Private sector" to some extent that would be responsible for such thing. If you keep up with our current politics its pretty clear the deciding factor for our government now is speacial interests and money so such a thing isnt really so farfetched, I mean we basically let these companies run amok and screw everyone over at the countries expense, it would make sense that the private sector has gotten a hold of the government. You're argument earlier was something along the lines of. "Why would a government keep this secret? The government is meant to help people." Its simply because maybe the government has too some extent lost control of itself. I mean if our politicians can barely ever agree how do you think things are ran behind the scenes? Basically if all this is true or perhaps even some of it, it means that some parts of the government mainly parts of the military and intelligence community are no longer under control by the "Government" as we know it. Its very possible, President Eisenhower even said "Beware the military industrial complex" and thought it was a potential danger to our democracy in his farewell speech and he was a republican 5 star general. (Also supposedly the privatization and compartmentalization of the Military really started in earnest with him.)

Now the fact that these people might be outright LYING has not escaped me. And precisely for the reason you sited. (IE spending their entire careers in the government and military.) They could be in it for personal gain, or perhaps they are spreading disinformation at the request of whatever compartment is running said branch of the military which they came from, as a matter of fact im POSITIVE thats the case with some of these witnesses. However I find it unlikely that ALL of them are lying, perhaps some folks in the military can possibly be altruistic or selfless? Its also folks who were outside of the military who are also respected. (IE air traffic controllers as one example.) and of course some sightings were probably just top secret air craft. But more than enough people have come forward to put some credence to the claims, so if you're implying that theirs a conspiracy by all of these people to simply misdirect everyones attention from prototype aircraft that is just as far fetched as my argument supposedly is. Also some of these events are simply IMPOSSIBLE for any aircraft we have built. (Moving at high speed and stopping instantaneously, then accelerating back to high speed in a ridiculously short amount of time before making a straight right turn without de-accelerating. Nothing our military has would be able to do that unless they had the tech from somewhere else anyway as im sure you realize it defies the laws of physics and sightings like these have been reported and caught on tape. Weather baloons dont move like that either.)

And in response to what Journia said and you're own response I think you are projecting our concerns and logic into something that may not neccessarily apply. Like I said earlier If you are capable of super-luminal travel cost effectiveness is probably not a huge issue to begin with. Maybe they don't use money? And perhaps Earth is the nearest inhabitable world to some hypothetical civilization. We can barely look too far out of our solar system and what may be considered a "vast distance" for us might be nothing more than a 3 hour drive for them.

 

[Rox_My_Sox1]

I can only think of a few reasons why governments would want to deny the existence of aliens in their countries (or even in the airspace of their nations). Either (A) the governments have had covert contact with such beings which has led to involvement with them that would either (1) cause a national panic or (2) cause national outrage or (B) the governments have had no contact other than obtaining wreckage, artifacts, and other pieces of alien technology/culture on Earth through accidental finds or crash landings and the governments have been conducting secret military research that they fear could cause harm to their nations if it fell into the hands of another world power.

 

[HXCkid]

@Rox Well those are valid reasons, once this came out people would indeed be outraged. However I dont think "panic" would be as widespread as people think. People are pretty confortable with the idea at this point, polls show that alot of americans believe in extraterrestrials. (Forget the exact number but it was high.) and a similar amount believed the "Government" is indeed hiding things, the only people who would really freak would be fundamentalist religious zealots. I mean 3 weeks ago 12 ex-air force guys came out in a televised press conference and said UFO's were coming in and fucking with our nukes and there was jack shit they could do about it and people barely blinked.

Nothing is concrete, but I think the "Governments" reason for hiding this are far from altruistic. It feels like we've been shepherded into this current situation, to help a certain agenda. There are many people who back this claim up, and even claim to have documented evidence of this, which I think one could find if they looked hard enough, but the media wont cover it cause they have been sort of "Convinced" not to ever give it alot of credit.

So consider this, many people in the world today are fairly confortable with the idea of ET, panic is a factor, and would cause problems, but eventually this is going to get out anyway, and the majority would not panic. (The vatican even said it was fine to believe in ET and if they saw some they would be our "Space brothers" and they would be happy to baptize them.) Also consider the current state of the world. Nobody seems to even be trying to change the current paradigm which is very very VERY convenient for certain groups interests which have been in power. (IE Cheney.) anything regarding radical positive change, is quickly shot down as "economically subversive" in other words people are too lazy, and too greedy to want to shift us out of the fairly shitty cycle we've been sinking into the last decade. I mean wind and solar energy is a joke, its too expensive and these supposed "green plans" are even more ridiculous. "Get us off 1/3 of oil by 2050" WTF is that? I'm sure if the powers that be really wanted too they could get us off oil by 2020-2025 their just stalling, I mean we put a man on the moon in 10 years and we can't make this technology more efficient? Keep in mind if we have had this tech for years, we probably have the capacity to run the entire world on a single energy source, Tesla even supposedly discovered one in the 20's but the government wouldnt let it out cause "You couldnt put a meter on it." My guess is if they are hiding it their doing it purely to maintain the status quo.

 

[HXCkid]

HOLY CRAP! Norad dude was right, or at least partially. There was a mass sighting in newyork today, hardly the concrete evidence he implied it would be but something DID happen. If you don't believe me there are videos all over the internet now. Coincidence? I had to admit I didnt think anything would happen. Its possible it could be a hoax timed to happen on the exact date but its pretty interesting.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uv9fr_Ades0&feature=player_embedded


http://www.myfoxny.com/dpp/news/offbeat/ufo-sightings-over-manhattan-20101013-akd

 

[HXCkid]

Apparently its general concensus now "They were baloons" supposedly there was a party for a teacher around 1 pm with baloons, and supposedly the first sighting was around 1:30pm but i'm pretty sure I saw in an earlier news-report that people had been seeing them since earlier that morning.