Does anyone here hate Jeter?

[Big_Dogg85]

Hate him or not, regardless of if the Yankees win the Series or lose horribly, I can't recall many games, if any at all, where Jeter didn't give it his all night in and night out and that is something required of any team leader or captain, as Jeter is.

I don't personally hate HIM, I don't overtly hate the Yankees usually... I just hate them when my Jays are doing good!

 

[gilmourwaters]

I dont hate jeter...its more like im repulsed by the whole roid taking , baseball ruining yankee organization!......imo

 

[ticklingfeet4fu]

I have grown to love Jeter, consistent, runs EVERYTHING out, leads by example and one of the greatest captains in the history of sport! A ton of intangible qualities that exceed fantasy league stats! First ballot Hall of Famer!... I would take him over most of the greats mentioned in this post if I were starting a TEAM!.. Over Boggs, Medwick, Kiner (my father's favorite ballplayer) Roberts and Stargell... Not over Cobb, Ruth, Mays, Mantle and Aaron... Yes I am aware that Medwick was the last in the NL to win a triple crown.

Intangibles? Since you went there, what intangibles does Jeter bring to the table that Medwick .324 lifetime hitter , Kiner ( when he retired was 6th on the all time HR list ), Walter Johnson ( Big Train had 417 lifetime wins ), Gehrig ( career .340 hitter with 496 HRs ), Robin Roberts ( 286 career wins ), Stan Musial ( a career .331 hitter who had 1815 hits from EACH side of the plate and had 475 career HRs ) , Ted Williams ( a .344 lifetime hitter with 521 career HRs ), Bob Feller ( 266 career wins with a 3.25 ERA ) , Roy Campenella ( won three NL MVP's before his career was tradegically shortened ), Willie Stargell ( career .282 hitter with 475 career HRs and was the leader in the Pirates winning the 1979 World Series ), Roberto Clemente 3000 hits in 17 seasons and a career .317 hitter and put the Pirates back on the map in the late '50's ).


I think before you start talking intangibles...look at the history. Some of the guys you are putting Jeter ahead have been leaders and have help guide and help teams through their bats, arms and leadership qualities. And for the most part all their numbers dwarf Jeter's.

I will say it again...Jeter is a terrific player and a first ballot Hall of Famer in my mind. To say that Jeter isn't a leader or a terrific player is selling him WAY short. But all the names I mentioned are players who's career stats ( regardless of hitter or pitcher ) are better than Jeter's and they have all won in some fashoin or form and their careers were guided in most part by their inspired leadership and will to win.

Jeter's desire to win is not any better than anyone elses. You put Jeter in an Pittsburgh Pirate uniform his desire is still the same. He will still bring what Derek Jeter bring to the table night in and night out but the talent of the guys around you help that go a long way as well. Let's not sell that short.

Anyone who thinks that Jeter's desire to win is moreso than let's say Zack Greinke or Billy Butler then you don't know what you are saying. All players if they are any good have a desire to win. They also bring the so called intangibles. But if you don't have the team around you to help you along then it doesn't matter what kind of " intangibles " you bring...you will not win a team game like baseball all by yourself.

 

[ticklingfeet4fu]

blah blah blah

Be a man and admit when you are wrong. These new half-assed statistics you throw out are for people who have too much time on there hands. Its baseball not a math class

Yes it is! Baseball is a math class or their stats wouldn't ever matter. If it wasn't a math class then why did anyone care about Babe Ruth's 714 or Aaron's 755 HRs? Why did we care if Roger Maris 61 HRs stood or whether or not Bonds and McGwire did steriods to break those records.

Why do we care whether or not Pete Rose goes into the Hall of Fame? Well Pete Rose is the all time hits leader at 4,256. How do we know that? Math. Baseball is a math class.

Why do we know that of Stan Musial's 3630 that exactly half of his hits ( 1815 ) were hit from the right side of the plate and 1815 of his 3630 hits were from the left side of the plate. It's called math. If nobody cared, they wouldn't keep those kinds of stats.

So before you say someone else is wrong...look in the mirror because sometimes you find the truth when you admit you are wrong.

 

[ticklingfeet4fu]

What a great rebuttal. 'Stats don't matter in a game like basebal! Things like Batting average, OBP, OPS, HR, RBI, Runs, Total bases, VORP, WARP, and Strikeouts which prove player efficiency have no bearing! Derek Jeter is the best because he hosted SNL, did some Gatorade and Gillette ads and is nailing Minka Kelly. And most of all because I say so...'

So... you're trying to say that the Yankees haven't signed a ton of top-tier free agents and haven't had the highest payroll of all teams since 1994, which hasn't postively affected both the win-loss record and stats for guys like Jeter?

Or are you trying to say that Jeter (in his prime or overall) hit more HR's and RBI's with a higher OPS (and had a higher WARP) than counterparts Tejada, Nomar and A-Rod?

Or perhaps that all of his stats are still far greater on the whole than of many other great SS's (like Ernie Banks, Robin Yount, Cal or Larkin)?

Because all three of those things are terribly untrue.

There is no individual statistical reason that can prove that Jeter is better than any other great SS. The bottom line is that Jeter is a far cry from Honus Wagner, so deal with it.

The ONLY thing that separates Jeter from his equal or better statistical counterparts @ SS is # of championships, which is a terribly skewed stat in his favor (thanks to the team he played for).

If one cannot see that, then I question not only their baseball knowledge, but their common sense.

Excellent post. You nailed it!

 

[Cy/MiG]

Excellent post. You nailed it!

So did you:

Intangibles? Since you went there, what intangibles does Jeter bring to the table that Medwick .324 lifetime hitter , Kiner ( when he retired was 6th on the all time HR list ), Walter Johnson ( Big Train had 417 lifetime wins ), Gehrig ( career .340 hitter with 496 HRs ), Robin Roberts ( 286 career wins ), Stan Musial ( a career .331 hitter who had 1815 hits from EACH side of the plate and had 475 career HRs ) , Ted Williams ( a .344 lifetime hitter with 521 career HRs ), Bob Feller ( 266 career wins with a 3.25 ERA ) , Roy Campenella ( won three NL MVP's before his career was tradegically shortened ), Willie Stargell ( career .282 hitter with 475 career HRs and was the leader in the Pirates winning the 1979 World Series ), Roberto Clemente 3000 hits in 17 seasons and a career .317 hitter and put the Pirates back on the map in the late '50's ).


I think before you start talking intangibles...look at the history. Some of the guys you are putting Jeter ahead have been leaders and have help guide and help teams through their bats, arms and leadership qualities. And for the most part all their numbers dwarf Jeter's.

I will say it again...Jeter is a terrific player and a first ballot Hall of Famer in my mind. To say that Jeter isn't a leader or a terrific player is selling him WAY short. But all the names I mentioned are players who's career stats ( regardless of hitter or pitcher ) are better than Jeter's and they have all won in some fashoin or form and their careers were guided in most part by their inspired leadership and will to win.

Jeter's desire to win is not any better than anyone elses. You put Jeter in an Pittsburgh Pirate uniform his desire is still the same. He will still bring what Derek Jeter bring to the table night in and night out but the talent of the guys around you help that go a long way as well. Let's not sell that short.

Anyone who thinks that Jeter's desire to win is moreso than let's say Zack Greinke or Billy Butler then you don't know what you are saying. All players if they are any good have a desire to win. They also bring the so called intangibles. But if you don't have the team around you to help you along then it doesn't matter what kind of " intangibles " you bring...you will not win a team game like baseball all by yourself.

 

[obama666]

It will be interesting to see what stats Jeter finishes with. They were going to move him out of SS but last year but he picked it up a bit in the field. Aware of this impending move he seemed to get to balls with more urgency. I think he only has one or two grand slams (perhaps my only knock against him). Many of the greats you mentioned were not SS. IT's not always fair to compare an OF, 3B, or 1B offensive stats to a middle infielder...I always think about his backhand flip against the A's, getting the runner at home or making that catch diving in the stands (all in the playoffs). There was also the heads up throw to the plate against the Twins in the playoffs last year, nailing an unsuspecting runner at home...Intangibles Galore!!! He also gives himself up in big spots by hitting behind runners . Many of the greats previously mentioned were also just one dimensional players, HE's Not!... Jeter is the consummate team player! That's why I like him!

 

[FeatherMAN28]

if theres one man man in baseball that everybody could learn from as far as attitude goes, it would be Kirby Puckett....He did his job, he was a good person, friendly, (one time he got into trouble he was innocent) more guys need to be like him.

 

[ticklingfeet4fu]

Exactly. More guys should definately grope girls against their wills after they retire.

See...that is where your useless comments are uncalled for. For you to speak like that about the late Kirby Puckett is classless.

 

[ticklingfeet4fu]

It will be interesting to see what stats Jeter finishes with. They were going to move him out of SS but last year but he picked it up a bit in the field. Aware of this impending move he seemed to get to balls with more urgency. I think he only has one or two grand slams (perhaps my only knock against him). Many of the greats you mentioned were not SS. IT's not always fair to compare an OF, 3B, or 1B offensive stats to a middle infielder...I always think about his backhand flip against the A's, getting the runner at home or making that catch diving in the stands (all in the playoffs). There was also the heads up throw to the plate against the Twins in the playoffs last year, nailing an unsuspecting runner at home...Intangibles Galore!!! He also gives himself up in big spots by hitting behind runners . Many of the greats previously mentioned were also just one dimensional players, HE's Not!... Jeter is the consummate team player! That's why I like him!

To put him up amongest the greats of all time ( which is where everyone seems to want to put him ) then he should be compared to the greats of all time regardless of their position. You can't pick and chose when you can or can't compare him.

You can't compare him to Ernie Banks and Banks was a shortstop and hit 45,44,47,43 and 41 HRs as a shortstop. He also led the league in HRs as a shortstop. While as a shortstop he led the league twice. He also drove in 100 or more runs 8 times in his career. Also Banks was putting up those numbers when shortstops DIDN'T put up 5 HR's a year for the most part. Banks hit in BIGGER ballparks. And Wrigley Field is one of the worst parks to hit in when the wind is blowing in or when there is bad weather.

And he hit 300 of his 521 career HRs as a shortstop.

But overall, if you want to say he is one of the greatest of all time then you compare him to that. You want to say he is one of the greatest Shortstops of all time...then that is different. But that isn't what everyone has been saying, have they?