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Favorite historical figure

nenezinho

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I know there´s been a thread similar to this one in the past. But I didn´t had the time to answer it well and since then I wanted to give a better answer to it.

For those who like history and want to know a bit more of european history, stay with me!

The character is D.Afonso Henriques, 1109-1185, 1st king of Portugal also known as "the conqueror".

Background: Islam´s golden age is ending but they still have a strong hold on the Iberian peninsula (current Portugal and Spain). Christian knights have been able to reconquer almost half of the peninsula up north but the muslims are still very strong on the southern half. The christians are divided in some 4 or 5 kingdoms being the westernmost the strongest and larger, the kingdom of Lyon and Casteel. It´s from this larger kingdom that a new smaller nation is to be born by the hand of a very strong and charismatic leader.

In the year of 1092, Afonso VI of Lyon and Casteel decides to unite two small counties around river Douro. He unites them and gives them to one of his "out of marriage" daugthers (Teresa) as he manages to marry her with a noble named Henry (Henrique in portuguese) from the burgundian house (today´s eastern france). The new formed county is more or less 300km by 100km. It´s main cities are Braga, Porto, Coimbra and the capital Guimarães.

In 1108 the still young counts have their first and only child which they name after their king of Lyon and Casteel keeping also the father´s name. So we have Afonso Henriques....and here begins our history!!!!!

At the age of 13, the young child starts to show what he´s made about! During the cerimony where he is made knight, at the large cathedral in Zamora, standing before his grandfather the king and the bishop of Zamora, the young Afonso gets cocky, simply ignores the bishop and anoints himself a knight and protector of all christians. Rumours say that his grandfather the king was really amused and felt sory that this boy was not in the first line to the crown of Lyon and Casteel.

The young Afonso Henriques is only 20 years old when his grandfather dyes. By that time a great turmoil arises. Teresa, his mother, who is by now very independent from her husband, wants to get some new allies and start contending for the crown of the larger kingdom of Lyon and Casteell. She starts allying with a neighbour count and tries to give him the portuguese county (her husband was more concerned in getting our of the hell and getting back to france!). Too bad the young Afonso Henriques had different views! He siezes the moment and with only 20 years old he is able to take his father place as the leader of the portuguese cities. With a small army he goes to the capital of Guimarães where his mother is and takes it by siege. The city greats the army as liberators and quickly pledges it´s loyalty to the young leader. Teresa escapes and gets back with an army only to be beaten by his son near Guimaraes in the year of 1128 (battle of S.Mamede).

After this victory over his mother, the young leader has his first declaration of independence written:
I, prince Afonso, son of count Henrique, free of all opression, in the peacefull possession of Coimbra, Guimaraes and all the portuguese cities.

He also starts imediate talks with the church to get recognition of his powers. First he helps the portuguese archbishop of Braga to get rich and powerful and after he starts bribing the Vatican itself! For more than 60 years, the church of Braga will allways be loyal to him and pled for him to the pope whenever necessary.

The new found Portugal enjoys a period of sucess during it´s first years. The struggle is still on to see who is going to win the crown of Lyon and Casteel and as long as that strong continues, no one will mess with Afonso Henriques in his corner. He takes the time to strenghten the portuguese cities south against the muslims and further uniting them for the next moves.

By 1135 the struggle in Lyon and Casteel finaly ends. Afonso VII, cousin of Afonso Henriques, takes the crown in a great ceremony where all his counts must pay tribut to him. Guess who´s the only count not attending!!!! Afonso Henriques who by not attending makes a stand that he´s no longer a count and Portugal is now an independent kingdom.

The war erupts bettween the two cousins and Afonso Henriques is able to stand with is smaller county. In 1137 after 2 years of war both achieve an understanding. Afonso VII recognizes his cousin authority over Portugal and in trade Afonso Henriques promisses to allways aid him with his men against the muslims, a promisse he will never fulfill!!!

Afonso Henriques wants to concentrate on expanding Portugal further south gaining land to the muslims and doing it he fails to help his cousin in his own troubles. A state of war is almost allways standing bettween the two cousins but Portugal, leaded by Afonso Henriques, is able to win battles to superior foes both against the muslims and against the neighbour kingdom of Lyon and Casteel.

In 1139 Afonso Henriques achieves his greatest military victory on the battle of Ourique. He takes a small portuguese army some 100 to 150km deep inside muslim territory to the south. He then faces a supperior muslim army and proudly camps facing it and offering battle. To bolst the portuguese moral, Afonso Henriques tells his soldiers that he saw Christ in a dream that night and that God wants the portuguese to drive the muslims south into the sea. Adding to this declaration, He asks a new banner to be made, and for the first time, the shield of Portugal will be carried into battle, the same shield you can still see in our flag today! With a new flag and the promise of God´s help, the portuguese inflict a devastating blow on the muslims.

The result of this battle was so devastating that both the vatican and the kingdom of Lyon and Casteel started seing Afonso Henriques as a king on his own right.

In 1143, the Vatican sends an emissary to try and establish a long standing peace bettween the christian rullers. Afonso Henriques plays his cards again and speaking of the battle of Ourique he asks to be made a servent of the Pope himself, a status that will make him an independent king having full authority over his territories and owing allegiance to no one! The Vatican will take it´s time to answer

1147 - After many more battles against the muslims and his cousin from Lyon and Casteel, Afonso Henriques coordinates a massive allied army of crusades in the siege of Lisbon. It is said it was an army of hundreds of thousands with a navy of 150 ships from different nations. The city falls into christian hands and after a bloodbath, Afonso Henriques changes is capital to Lisbon with the clear view of expanding Portugal further south. By now he already has more or less twice as land as he had in the beggining. Portugal extends now more 200km south to the Tagus river and in many places we already have strong cities even south of the river.

War keeps erupting with muslims and with Lyon and Afonso Henriques spends his time allways fighting or trying to achieve goals through diplomacy.

By 1179, the Vatican finally recognizes the new fully independent kingdom of Portugal! In truth, this was no longer necessary as by then Portugal has been able to stand by himself against it´s neighbours.

Throgout years of fighting Afonso Henriques is even taken hostage in treachery by the new ruller of Lyon and Casteel, king Fernando II. However, due to carefull negotiations with church and noble representatives, the portuguese nobles finally buy his freedom with a ransom of 2,5 tons of gold!!!!

At his death, he leaves his children with a kingdom which is now almost 3 times bigger and with a big big treasure looted from the muslims.

In his finall will, he states that his treasure is the treasure of Portugal and should be used to the benefict of the kingdom! Therefore he comands that it should be used to build castles, improve defenses, but also to build hospitals and several churches. He is worried with a muslim counter-atack and urges several military european orders to establish in Portugal giving them territories to manage. Orders like the templars for example who are given lands on the tagus river north of Lisbon.

His descendants will rulle Portugal for several generations and his grandson will eventually finish the work of driving the muslims into the sea of the coast of Algarve, thus establishing the final borders of Portugal, the oldest in all Europe!!!!!!

He dies at the age of 76, a remarkable old age for the 12th century! he is said to have led his personal cavalry in battle at the age of 60 as a relief army that broke a muslim siege on his older son. Both father and son made a dramatic fight at the head of their armies totally routing the muslims.

From his several children, the most notorious where:
Sancho: 2nd king of Portugal, didn´t had his father strenght or charisma, lost several cities back to the muslims only to be retaken by his son.
Urraca: married with the king of Lyon, was expelled from that kingdom due to the wars bettween them and Portugal.
Mafalda: married to the count of Barcelona
Teresa: married to the count of Flandres (belgium)
Afonso: Lead the crusade order of Rhodes from 1203 to 1206 dying the next year

The greatest achievement of Afonso Henriques:
The 1st European leader to build a strong, united and independent kingdom that still lasts today as the oldest european country.
 
I second Ben Franklin as my choice. However, I enjoyed the history lesson. 😀
 
The 1st European leader to build a strong, united and independent kingdom that still lasts today as the oldest european country.

It also stays as the first European country to sell african people into slavery and to sell the most with 30000 thounsand trips and 4650000 slaves sold togheter with his colony of Brasil. More than double than any other included UK. it started in 1440 and controlled it until 1640, was the last of the European countries to abolish it in 1869, and only in the central country but not the colonies until 1875
Reference, Hugh Thomas "La trata de Esclavos".
 
My favourite one is the one who found out that, by banging certain stones together, you could get fire. Unfortunately I've forgotten her name...
 
One Canuck and One Yank

JFK, and John G. Deafenbaker (sp)> Deafnebaker made the big speach "I am a Canadian, a free Canadian..." and of course JFK was probably the greates prez you guys ever had. Why do you always shoot the good ones?
 
I have two. Jimmy Carter: In my opinion the most honest president we'll ever have even if he didn't have a chance to be very effective. Salvador Dali: From the moment i first saw the painting "Swans into Elephants" (I think that was the name of the painting) i was captivated by his imagination.
 
Lt General Lewis B. "Chesty" Puller of the USMC.

He was a fighting General. He recieved 5 Navy Crosses and was one of the best officers the Corps had. He was gruff and to the point. He hated politics, which is why he never had a chance at being the Commandant.
 
not my favorite, just an interesting figure...

There was a King Jagiello of Poland who, in 1410, led Polish and Lithuanian troops to victory at the Battle of Grunwald (one of the greatest Medieval battles) over the Teutonic Knights (Prussia) to stop their expansion (akin to today's Walmart). He had been the King of Lithuania and married into a family to become King of Poland. Basically, he united a wide swath of Central Europe (see attached map) and embraced aspects of freedom and liberty. I'm unclear on the timeline of the subsequent history, but eventually (under Jagiello's heirs?) Poland set up a form of democratic government in which there were two houses of congress, and any law proposed by the king had to be radified by the houses.

Musically, I would go with John Coltrane. Then my list gets expotentially longer :zzzzz: ...

Some of the world's great inventors really amaze me. Davinci had helicopters, flying machines, submarines, and the like in the notebook of his that was recovered- but it was one of I believe six notebooks they knew about, and the others were destroyed! Who knows what was depicted in those books. What's more is, his designs weren't just conceptions- upon trial, they actually worked. Thomas Edison contributed to or invented so many of the things we take for granted today, that it's absolutely mind-boggling.

I like the choice of Teddy Roosevelt. He was a fascinating man. If you make it to NYC, asu, you should visit his birthplace, which is now a great little museum.

Jimmy Carter- another interesting figure. Peanut farmer, nuclear submarine commander, president, statesman and diplomat, organizer of habitats for humanity- the list goes on...
 
henry the eighth..sir thomas more.. ann boleyn...elizabeth the first..mary, queen of scots..
 
isabeau said:
henry the eighth..sir thomas more.. ann boleyn...elizabeth the first..mary, queen of scots..


UM UMM.....I believe the question cleary stated favorite not favorites. 😛
 
Donatien Alphonse François, also known as The Marquis de Sade.
 
MrMacphisto said:
I second Ben Franklin as my choice. However, I enjoyed the history lesson. 😀
Sounds like you,flock and i all agree on this one.If i could meet any of the founding fathers it would be Dr. Franklin without a doubt.
 
A tie for me. Franklin Roosevelt, and not just because I am a Democrat, and he was. I am aware of rumors of his possible anti-semitism, but I haven't read any confirmation. I choose FDR, because I feel he led us through, and out of, the most difficult time in this country's history, with his New Deal, and the banking securities he helped implement during the Depression. Without FDR, none of us today would have our $100,000 FDIC insured accounts. Losses of funds deposited in uninsured banks killed many average people during the Depression. In addition to the Depression, FDR was in command of our country through most of the war. He might have had about the most on his plate to deal with of any president in our history, and he was elected to four terms, proof that the country supported him.
The other person on my list: Mother Theresa. There has probably not been a more kind and decent person, religious or other, who ever lived. She was so beloved around the world, and did so much for humanity, religion, and mankind in general. Just a good woman.
So, those are my two choices.

Mitch
 
For a leader I like Abraham Lincoln , for a musician Mozart , both born to inspire !!!!
 
Deadsea7777 said:

It also stays as the first European country to sell african people into slavery and to sell the most with 30000 thounsand trips and 4650000 slaves sold togheter with his colony of Brasil. More than double than any other included UK. it started in 1440 and controlled it until 1640, was the last of the European countries to abolish it in 1869, and only in the central country but not the colonies until 1875
Reference, Hugh Thomas "La trata de Esclavos".



Something needs to be said about this...even if it doesn´t relates to the topic.

1st: Even if you are right on what you´re saying, that doesn´t give you the moral stance to be agressive to a country based on past events. I wasn´t evaluating my country either. We don´t bash Germany or Germans and I´m glad we are smart enough for that.

2nd: You are quoting an ENGLISH POLITICEAN who was also strongly related to SPAIN!!!!! To those who don´t know, Lord Hugh Thomas was a member of the english parliament in 19th century with very strong ties to spain. He wrote several essays mainly about the spanish civil war, spanish colonization and slavery. I did no research to see what were is intentions about spain...but his stance about the UK should be pretty obvious 🙂

3rd: Portugal was not the 1st European country to sell africans into slavery. I don´t know if Mr. Thomas wrote this but if he did, this would only show what a "good" historian he was. To state that Portugal (a country born in 12th century) was the first european country to sell african slaves (and only starting it in the 15th century) is to totally ignore history behind these dates!

4th: You need to understand that during middle ages, western civilization was weak and the muslims were going through their golden age. Therefore, they were in total control of all trade with Africa and were the ones dealling with and using african slaves during several centuries. Europe had abolished the slavery of other christians but the reason why europeans were not buying african or asian slaves was just because it was too expensive to buy them to the muslims. And this was actually one of the reasons why Portugal went out on te seas looking for a way to break this economical monopoly over african goods (slaves, gold and many other).

5h: I don´t know how Mr. Thomas is doing his acounting. But from what you quote, I take it he is counting depending on the flag the slave ship was carrying. You should understand that such a way of acounting can lead to tremendous mistakes. Imagine...if you did the same with oil trade in todays world, you would get very strange countries on your top10 list and this simply because of taxes and sea fares. The same paralel can be made to the atlantic trade during 15th/16th/17th centuries. Portugal was the leading country on the seas, we established all the atlantic ports on Africa, we were even considered by the pope to be the rightfull owners of all atlantic trade. Therefore there were clear advantages of working under a portuguese flag and several rich families from different european countries established in Lisbon to take their share on the atlantic proffits. If you want an example, take Cristopher Columbus, maybe the best known, he was working under portuguese flag for several years before he decided to look for a job as free lancer....and he had a hell of a trouble to get investors out of Portugal. Just in case, I remeber this guy was from Genova, a city in current day Italy.

6th and finally: Your great Mr. Thomas, even goes to say that Portugal left slavery late and left it only in the capital. This is so absurd!!!!!!!! Do you really think we portuguese have laws that are only for Lisbon???? And such an important statement as leaving slavery would be made only for Lisbon???? ridiculous!!!!!!!! But let me tell you that by 1875 (the date that Mr. Thomas tells that portuguese colonies finaly left slavery) Brasil was no longer part of Portugal for more than 50 years as we had granted them their independence. The only collonies we still had by 1875 were Angola/Mozambique/East Timor/Macau. The two african countries were considered as portuguese territory and therefore were rulled by the same laws as Lisbon (they stayed like that untill 1974). Both East Timor and Macau are in Asia and had nothing to do with african slave trading. So I wonder where did we allowed slavery by 1875.

I could say many other things, but maybe this should continue in P&R section if you wish to keep this discussion.

All in all, I didn´t like the way you said what you said like if we were the bad guys in some movie. We were not! We had our part in the movie and acted it as best as we could considering the moral standards of those times.

Sory for the long post 🙂
 
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