For Girls Mainly

[Miss Sassy1]

**NOTE: The second option was meant to be No, if you did not intentionally get pregnant, then abortion is not wrong. If someone knows how to edit polls, let me know!**

Hey all,

This is shygirl, aka Amber Rae. I was just talking to some people in FT's thread about anti-gender and I have mentioned about anti-sex on there. Not that I'm really against it, but I would rather not just have it. Well, the subject in the matter is not really about sex but about abortion. First of all,l I just wanted to be first to say that I'm against it but my dad feels different. Let me explain.

I have several problems including heart murmur and Tetrology of the fallot or is it fallope? I also have hydrocephalus. Those are just my interior problems. Because of my heart condition, I can't have children because being pregnant would put too much pressure on my heart. I just recently learned that birth control is not an option either. Don't really know why, except maybe it has side-effects that would cause my heart rate to go bad.

Anyway, my dad and I started talking about raping, because there was an attempted sexual assault on a female student at my school about two months ago. My dad was saying that if I got raped, he thinks that is one of the exceptions of abortions. I told him that I would rather die than kill another human being.

So, my question to all of you girls is if you got pregnant and learned that you shouldn't because it would kill you, would you get an abortion or would you die for your unborn child?​

 

[melanie2]

o god that's a hard question to answer..mainly because i lost three babies..i know i wouldn't wish to die..but hmm..the thing is, my husband would definitely say end the pregnancy if it meant killing me..i guess i can't really answer that question because it's not happened to me.

 

[hazelf1]

I think i would go for the abortion based on the the very basic bottom line of your question.

But (there always is one isn't there ) a lot of questions have to be asked, just imagine for a moment you had a fantastic partner who yearned for a child and despite all attempts not to, this just happened then that is one side of the coin.

If on the other side of the coin it was a result of a rape then thats another.

Love and religion are among several key elements here and come into this argument, its impossible to answer on a basic level so much hinges on the situation.

Another question is what if the experts had it wrong and you lived, what if the child had your problems, what if in the future things advanced and the situation was improved as a result.

This is an excellent thread and iam sorry your in this situation and its very brave to raise raise this thread.

In all honesty iam too selfish and not brave enough so the abortion would be my answer, i would also have a fear that although i brought a child into the world, i wouldn't be there to see the job through.

 

[PurpleStyle]

I'm glad that the poll option said "unborn embryo" and not "unborn child", because embryo is the correct term. Embryos are not people. 🙂

 

[Journia]

I would say, if it meant that you would die, you should have an abortion, or if you wanted, you could have another person actually carry the child for you, thus working around the whole issue of not having the child, and your heart going bad.

There is always a way around an obstacle.

You don't have to have an abortion, but if you did not want to go through the situation of raising it, then you might want to destroy the fetal material.

Personally though, I'd have the abortion. If I were raped. And had a condition of the heart, as you do.

Because surgery may or may not go well due to the heart not working well during or after the surgery.

However, when people die, it isn't so bad anyway.

Why do you think so many people commit suicide? 😛

 

[Miss Sassy1]

Read my note Purplestyle: I made a mistake.

 

[PurpleStyle]

I read your note, and chose to ignore it, because I like the written one better. The word "embryo" is more appropriate. I am pro-choice, and if you choose to get an abortion for whatever reason - you should. I could continue to rant about why I feel this way, but if anybody here has passed a high school biology class, they should already know what I'd say.

 

[Pat_the_Baker]

I'm don't believe the government should be telling women what to do with their bodies. That's DANGEROUS TERRITORY!

Instead, we should concentrate on better ways to make humans unable to have babies (as vasectomy's ad tubal ligation's are just too damn uncomfortable to go through for most people). I'm for the VOLUNTARY taking of a produced pill that would learn to permanent sterility. Sadly I don't know of anything like that in the market.

 

[PurpleStyle]

Being exposed to enough ionizing radiation will make you sterile. 😉 It may also induce severe radiation sickness, cancer, and death.

That said, from what I hear, vasectomy is relatively painless, and reversible. Note that I don't have a penis so I could just be talking out of my ass. xD

 

[Miss Sassy1]

Haha, you're, wait before I finish that, are you a lee or a ler?

 

[likeasong1]

Life of the mother is an acceptable exception even to most religious people, mainly because you're choosing between two lives... which one is lost. I also remember hearing that many times, when the mother dies in childbirth the baby usually doesn't live too long either, so then it becomes a situation of losing one life or two.

Hope you don't consider my opinion "encroachment" since I do have a Y-chromosome.

 

[Pat_the_Baker]

That said, from what I hear, vasectomy is relatively painless, and reversible.

Reversible...yes.

Painless...BLOOMIN NO DON'T CHA KNOW!

Ugh. I still recall mine. Longest two weeks of recovery time of my life.

 

[Miss Sassy1]

Ugh, I woudn't wish that on Satan himself, well, actually I would. 😀

 

[Pat_the_Baker]

BTW Shy. THIS IS TOTALLY NOT A SLANT against you or your religion and PLEASE TAKE NO OFFENSE BY THIS but I'd RECOMMEND you research the Hebrew religion since...in a nut shell...the god (and even the very 2,000 year old religion) you worship is based of the EVEN OLDER worship of the Hebrew monotheistic god Yahweh. According to the Tora, Satan isn't the leader of the rebellious angels...Azazel is. The fallen "morning star" was actually a reference to the king of Babylonian empire.

 

[Miss Sassy1]

Haha, yeah, I'm taking New Testament and have head of different religions, I just choose to believe what I believe, if I didn't, I think I'd have killed myself long ago because of what I've been through

 

[idiot756]

In my opinion, the start of life is at birth, not conception. After all, I don't remember being a single cell, do you? So I don't have a problem with abortion. But I am also not the type to have premarital sex, so... I wouldn't have lots of careless unprotected sex anyway. At any rate, I hate the fact that some people want to have the government ban it outright. Having the government involved in that at all is bad enough, but certainly not the federal government. If the government was to become involved at all, it should be a state-to-state issue, so someone can have a place to go.

 

[melanie2]

I have to disagree, Idiot..i've been pregnant..i've seen my babies, at only eight weeks after conception, moving around on an ultra sound..the last baby sucking her thumb..they already formed personalities..they have souls..to me, an unborn baby is NOT an embryo but a living baby, who needs nine months to develop so that they can survive outside the womb..and some have even been born prematurely, and still manage to live..

 

[Miss Sassy1]

Yes, I'm premature actually. but I got a lot problems, haha. And I managed to live even though they said I wouldn't, and I did have a few near-death experience. ><

 

[Carnivore]

I know this is a women's thread, but I'd like to think this is a deep issue we can all weigh in on. The big dispute on abortion seems to me to be whether the embryo/fetus/"unborn child" is a person. Not just 'a life' because we eat and kill animals all the time, and that's ok. Not just 'human' because a liver doesn't have an inate right to live, nor does a brainless, permanently comatose body.

A "person" is something that is self-aware and thinking. It is capable of abstract thought. That's what we value in people, not their bodies. It might not even be human, although I don't think we've encountered any of that. But a fetus is not a person. It may suck its thumb, but thumb sucking does not make you sentient. Monkeys and raccoons can do that, and they aren't people. Same arguments for heart beats and fingers and whatever else. What we should care about is its mind.

Of course, the counter-argument to this is souls. Whatever that means, I've never been able to figure out what a soul is. If you set up the definitions like that: things with souls are people. Homo sapien sapien embryos come with souls, ready made! Then yes, they are people. But I can't accept that definition because I've never observed embryos or myself with souls. If souls are just minds, if souls are "personalities" than I go back to the first argument. Fetuses don't have any more personality than a gerbil. That may be more than zero, but not enough to be a "person."

Now, in shygirl's scenario, even if it is a person, abortion may still be acceptable. After all, don't people have a right to protect their own lives? A right to self-defense, even if the causer isn't intending it? I think so. There's also the idea that it is detrimental to bring a motherless child into the world. Best save the mother, who might later be able to capably raise a later child. While I can't speak for mothers, I think I would save myself were I in that position.

I'm sorry if my stance offends anyone, but I'd like to think this thread is capable of freely discussing our views. Since this concept involves fundamental values and a woman's basic right to have autonomy over her body, I'm glad abortions are permitted in the United States. She should have the right to reach her own philosophical conclusions.

 

[kopfhorer1]

As far as I can see, throughout history all laws against not just abortion but contraception and sex education have had to do with propping up certain power elites who need extra troops for their military adventures and (cheap) laborers for their factories. This is why Mussolini and Hitler forbade abortion and contraception in their own nations. Romanian dictator Nicolae Ceaucescu made no secret of his reason for banning family planning during his regime in then-Communist Romania. It was to expand his country's influence and therefore his own (read up on what it was like in the state orphanages where many of the results of these policies ended up). Even a woman who innocently miscarried could be subjected to several hours' grilling by authorities.

 

[Dovalys]

It would depend on the situation, in general I believe taking a life to be wrong, even an unborn one, as you would be removing the chance for that child to live and grow, whether you count it as living, or having a soul or not. If you don't want the child, that's fine, but there are many out there who would love to raise him or her instead, so adoption would be a better choice.
If it's killing the mother though, the mother already having established connections would be more of a loss and would hurt more people
so I'd say whether the pregnancy was intentional or not, if the mother is dying from carrying the child or will in giving birth, then abortion is fine, but ultimately it would depend on the Mothers choice