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Gay at birth?

mabus

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I've long held the belief that people are gay or straight at birth, and here's one more article backing that claim up. I believe that the christians, who hate gay people with a passion, will never accept any science backing up that theory. If it becomes fact, it still won't matter. What I would love to know, and the question has never been answered, why is it that christians are supposed to love and not judge and forgive and all that, but are allowed to hate gay people? Hmmmmmm......

...............................................
Gay at Birth?
By NICHOLAS D. KRISTOF

Published: October 25, 2003

Some people say we should settle gay rights disputes on the basis of the Old Testament. I say we should rely on blinking patterns.

In case you've misplaced your latest copy of Behavioral Neuroscience, there's a fascinating article about how people blink. It turns out that when males and females are exposed to a loud noise, they blink in somewhat different ways — except that lesbians appear to blink like men, not like women.

The study (peer-reviewed but based on a small sample) is the latest in a growing scientific literature suggesting that sexual preferences may be not simply a matter of personal preference but part of our ingrained biology. Indeed, some geneticists believe that sexual orientation in men (though not women) may be determined in part by markers in the Xq28 chromosomal region.

One needs to be wary of these kinds of studies, partly because researchers drawn toward this field may have subconscious biases of their own. Moreover, many of the studies on the biological basis of homosexuality are flawed by small numbers or by the difficulty of finding valid random samples of gays and heterosexuals.

Still, while the data has problems, it is piling up — there are at least seven studies on twins. If there is a genetic component to homosexuality, one would expect identical twins to share sexual orientation more than fraternal twins, and that is indeed the case. An identical twin of a gay person is about twice as likely to be gay as a fraternal twin would be.

Earlier this year, the journal Personality and Individual Differences published an exhaustive review of the literature entitled "Born Gay?" After reviewing the twin studies, it concluded that 50 to 60 percent of sexual orientation might be genetic.

Many studies also suggest that sexual orientation may be linked to differences in brain anatomy. Compared with straight men, gay men appear to have a larger suprachiasmatic nucleus, a part of the brain that affects behavior, and some studies show most gay men have a larger isthmus of the corpus callosum — which may also be true of left-handed people. And that's intriguing because gays are 39 percent more likely to be left-handed than straight people.

Now look at your fingers. Men typically have a ring finger that is longer than the index finger, while in women the two are about the same length. However, two studies have suggested that lesbians have finger-length ratios that are more like those of men than of women.

Studies suggest that ring-finger length has to do with the level of androgens in the womb, and that may help explain another puzzle of homosexuality: a male is more likely to be gay if he has older brothers. It doesn't matter if he has older sisters, but for each older brother he is about 33 percent more likely to be gay. Some scientists speculate that a woman's body adjusts the androgen level in her womb as she has more sons, and that the androgens interact with genes to produce homosexuality.

O.K., these theories are potentially junk science until the studies are replicated with much larger numbers. But we also shouldn't ignore the accumulating evidence.

"There is now very strong evidence from almost two decades of `biobehavioral' research that human sexual orientation is predominantly biologically determined," said Qazi Rahman, the University of London researcher who led the blinking study. Many others don't go that far, but accept that there is probably some biological component.

Gays themselves are divided. Some welcome these studies because they confirm their own feeling that sexual orientation is more than a whim. Others fret that the implication is that homosexuals are abnormal or defective — and that future genetic screening will eliminate people like them.

For me the implication, if these studies are to believed, is different: It is that something is defective not in gays, but in discrimination against them.

A basic principle of our social covenant is that we do not discriminate against people on the basis of circumstances that they cannot choose, like race, sex and disability. If sexual orientation belongs on that list (with the caveat that the evidence is still murky), then should we still prohibit gay marriage and bar gays from serving openly in the armed forces?

Can we countenance discrimination against people for something so basic as how they blink — or whom they love?
 
If i believe that i was born straight, then in theory, people can be born gay.

Stacy
 
Personally, I think its a mix of more than one theory. I think a persons sexual preference, like their personality, depends on their physical properties, their past and experiences they've had. I also think that its possible for a persons sexual preference to change over time, depending on certain factors. Of course, I might be wrong -- it could also be said that someone could be born gay and not realize it for years.

In the end I don't think it really matters. In my opinion, when you love someone, gender isn't important.
 
mabus said:
I believe that the christians, who hate gay people with a passion, will never accept any science backing up that theory.

Actually, while this may unfortunately be true of some individuals (including some pastors), it is not true of the teachings/beliefs of any church I'm aware of. For instance, as a Catholic, I am taught that any sexual activity outside of marriage is wrong...no matter what the orientation. Homosexuals are not singled out here. They are simply part of the bigger picture.

We're gay/straight/bi/whatever. Are there people who "choose" to be gay? I don't think so. I believe that we are born with our orientation...along with many of our other sexual leanings. I also believe that, just because a person tries homosexual encouters doesn't make them homosexual. When I was in college, it was the IN thing to try out homosexuality. Many people did it. Some found they liked it better. But, I believe that those individuals were oriented that way and simply hadn't discovered it until then. Others have been brought up and conditioned to seek marriage with a partner of the opposite sex. I personally know of three couples whose marriages didn't last because one of the partners was actually homosexual and finally faced that and ended the lie they'd been pushed into living.

This is an emotional issue that will likely never come to a final and satisfying view from society as a whole. My own goal? Accept people as they are. Encourage and support growth where it's needed. Don't beat them over the head to get them to live what I believe. Everyone must follow their own heart.

Ann
 
OMG! Too funny!!

Mabus, does it bother you when somebody lumps all gay people together and makes stereotypical statements about them? If so, then how can you justify making such blantantly stereotypical statements as "I believe that the christians, who hate gay people with a passion, will never accept any science backing up that theory." Sounds like you've got some hatred and bigotry to deal with yourself, pal.

It's amusing to watch how far the gay political party will go to further their agenda. I specify the gay political community, because thankfully many gay people don't follow along with such atrocious politics. I don't harbor any animosity toward gay people, but I do hold the gay political party in contempt. For years they've been trying to prove that (it's difficult to even type this without laughing) gay people are born with that particular sexual preference. Because if they can prove that, then they can more effectively attack anybody not on board with their agenda by claiming racial discrimination.

This last article is absolutely hilarious. Lesbians have man-fingers. Mabus, thanks for sharing this. I'm forwarding it to friends and family via email, as I do with especially funny comedy. This shit is priceless.
 
mabus said:
What I would love to know, and the question has never been answered, why is it that christians are supposed to love and not judge and forgive and all that, but are allowed to hate gay people? Hmmmmmm......

Because, depending on which parts you read and how you interpret them, the Bible lets you do both. Frankly, I wonder, if we're not supposd to eat shelfish, why aren't religous people picketing Red Lobster?
 
Drew, I noticed that you're very rarely ever enlightened by anything that comes along. Doesn't that qualify as frustrating in some way, for those who choose to debate you? I've also noticed that people choose to debate others than yourself. Sounds like a Result.
Most of these so-called Christians who quake with hate and loathing for all enemies, real or imagined, seem to have a common thread: they do not really accept the biological basis for human sexuality. They think that it's something simpler that could easily be controlled, like the twisting of the wheel at the top of a spigot. After all, there's no mention of biology in the Gospels, or Acts, or Revelations, so how could it exist?
Guess what: it's very, very difficult for a human being to live his or her life in a more Christ-like manner. In order to do so, the person has to shed humanity with all its foibles. One can certainly try, but, man, do you have your work cut out for you. So, it's easier to snip whatever doctrine appeals to you (since it's also difficult to ingest all of it and become a walking scriptures yourself), twist it around, and use it as a weapon to smite your own enemies.
Not for me. Never was.
 
a few years ago...

a medical research scientist held a press conference, at which he stated that he had found a genetic marker that could identify a homosexual in vetro. this was confirmed by 2 other scientists at the press conference. he said that he would not release the information because he was affraid it would result in parents testing the amniotic fluid during pregnancy, and aborting babies that were homosexual.

kind of interesting, especialy when he admited he was pro-abortion, but not for that reason.

steve
 
Drew, I noticed that you're very rarely ever enlightened by anything that comes along. Doesn't that qualify as frustrating in some way, for those who choose to debate you? I've also noticed that people choose to debate others than yourself. Sounds like a Result.

That sounds like a very nice way of telling me I'm a know-it-all. Kudos for politeness, Knox. I can't help but respect it. Okay, I'll admit to being somewhat rigid, especially in the areas of politics, but how many people can you point to that suddenly change their political stance based on one article? I have to wonder what exactly you found particularly enlightening about this article, which admittedly was based on questionable data. What foundation-shattering epiphany could be expected from such a less-than-convincing diatribe? I find it difficult to imagine a reasonable person reading such a trite political ploy and keeping a straight face, but now I'm enlightened to the fact that people are actually swallowing it. There, you see? I've just been enlightened. 🙂

Most of these so-called Christians who quake with hate and loathing for all enemies, real or imagined, seem to have a common thread: they do not really accept the biological basis for human sexuality.

You know, I would love to know where you guys are finding these Christians that are filled with hate and loathing. I really would. Because the Christians I've known are loving, caring, humble individuals that would give the shirt off their back to help somebody. The Bible I've read says to love thy neighbor and to consider others as more important than yourself. There's no room for hate in the heart of a Christian, because he/she is too busy loving and caring. So, whoever these hating, loathing people are that you guys are labeling as "Christians," they are anything but. Please find some other label under which to stereotype them. And let's remember that there are other reasons for not supporting gay (or any other brand of) politics than hatred and loathing. The evangelical churches generally denounce homosexual behavior because the Bible clearly and in no uncertain terms identifies such behavior as sin! Yeah. It absolutely does. So, in reality, Knox, you and Mabus are faulting these people for going along with what their Bible tells them. You're blaming them for fully embracing the Word, rather than just picking and choosing the doctrines of which you guys approve. You can call it "hating and loathing" but it's the behavior they hate, not the people doing it.

They think that (human sexuality) is something simpler that could easily be controlled, like the twisting of the wheel at the top of a spigot. After all, there's no mention of biology in the Gospels, or Acts, or Revelations, so how could it exist?

It's not easy, but it can most certainly be controlled. Otherwise, you and I would be sexually assaulting every hottie that comes walking down the street. If you believe something is wrong, that goes a long way in learning to control the desire to do it. For example, let's say you're walking down the boardwalk, and you see a girl with a guy at a distance and you think, "Man, if I were that guy, I'd be knocking the bottom outta that thang!" Then you get closer and you suddenly realize this girl is no older than twelve or thirteen, and the guy that's with her is quite likely her father. Even though this young girl is shapely and cute and fits in line with everything you find attractive, you're going to make whatever effort it takes to not entertain such thoughts any further. Why? Because it's wrong, that's why. No other reason. So unless you're in the habit of going on raping sprees through Nordstrom, you are exercising control of your human sexuality. It takes effort, and strength of character, but it is certainly within our grasp.

And for the record, there is definitely more than one mention of biology in the Gospels. Luke was a doctor, in case you weren't aware. Jesus healed people with all manner of disease and infermity. And what about Job? If any man was painfully aware of the nature of biology, it would be Job.

Guess what: it's very, very difficult for a human being to live his or her life in a more Christ-like manner. In order to do so, the person has to shed humanity with all its foibles. One can certainly try, but, man, do you have your work cut out for you. So, it's easier to snip whatever doctrine appeals to you (since it's also difficult to ingest all of it and become a walking scriptures yourself), twist it around, and use it as a weapon to smite your own enemies.
Not for me. Never was.


"Very difficult?" Try impossible. The message of the Gospel as I understand it, is radically different from other religions which teach you to do your best to be a good person, do good works, etc, and hopefully the good you do will outway the bad and you'll go to heaven when you die. That's what most of them seem to teach. The Gospel of Jesus Christ on the other hand, teaches us that thanks to original sin (Adam & Eve), we're all inherently bad, and try as we might, can never live a life pleasing to God, unless we're "born again" at which point God Himself cleanses our sin and lives in our hearts in the person of the Holy Spirit, giving us superhuman abilities to resist temptation and live in righteousness, not to mention eternal life in Heaven when it's all over. So there is no justification for "smiting enemies" especially when Christ commands and empowers his followers to "love thine enemies."
 
and now a word from Pastor Baron:

real christianity truly does not hate anyone - in fact it strives to bring the saving message of the gospel to the entire world.

that having been said, both scripture and tradition clearly indicate that homosexuality is not a permissable act in the eyes of God. but this sin is like any other sin - none is worse than another.

so even if someone is born gay, they are nevertheless told not to act on it. that is perhaps a difficlut task.

but unlike Knox has suggested about "having the work cut out" to overcome, the position is that with Christ and the Holy Spirit's guidance, the strength will come to live more in accordance with God's will.

so churches should be accepting homosexuals into their congregations, just as they accept all other sinners. a church without sinners does not exist. but the church should not be compelled to act as a social arena by promoting and encouraging sinful behaviour.
 
Let me put it this way........ For those people who are claiming to be Christians and who are hating people solely based on who they sleep with... (or for any reason!) they aren't Christians.

Just because you wear the label with the ingredients printed on it doesn't mean you truly are what you claim to be. I see people walking around with "false wrapping" all the time.

And to label <u>all</u> Christians as people who passionly hate gays... that is exactly what Drew said it was. A stereotypical label placed on a large group of people ... all of whom you don't know, and probably don't understand.

*Looks at fingers!* Damn... About time for me to come out of the closet!

🙄
Sunrise
 
Thank you, Drew, for the lesson in theology. I find myself enlightened. Certainly not one step closer to actually EMBRACING, but enlightened.
Uh, hateful Christians? My TV is regaled, for instance, on Sunday morning, with the ministry of D. James Kennedy, out of Fort Lauderdale. Coral something ministries. Coral Reefer ministries. Anyway, three quarters of the program is spent demonizing liberals and homosexuals, using fear to motivate the faithful to empty their wallets in the crusade against the extraordinarily small minority acting up (no pun intended, actually) as squeaky wheels.
Plenty of hate coming from Falwell and Robertson. It's all I see. The Grace of God in all his love and glory seem somewhat absent. Just a lot of egomania.
 
are you gay mabus? anyway on the christain thing. It says in Genesus somewhere that you cant be gay so that is a sin just like any other sin and if you dont come to jesus you will go to hell for it. I dont like gay people. not because of that but because it is sickening to me how a man could look at another man that way. Lesbians are ok though.😀

oh and Nina says meow [yea gotta love those lesbians]

Psycho
 
Psycho said:
are you gay mabus? anyway on the christain thing. It says in Genesus somewhere that you cant be gay so that is a sin just like any other sin and if you dont come to jesus you will go to hell for it. I dont like gay people. not because of that but because it is sickening to me how a man could look at another man that way. Lesbians are ok though.😀

oh and Nina says meow [yea gotta love those lesbians]

Psycho

sorry but this is hypocracy at it's worst to me!
as long as we have misguided perverted sexuality like this, the issue will remain a hot button, and filled with hate on both sides.
steve
 
No, I'm not gay. I'm a happy hetorosexual who loves women, and always will. In fact, I really do feel sorry for gay men that they can't be attracted to beautiful women like the rest of us guys.

That being said, when something is wrong, in religions, America, whatever, I believe that it is our duty to step up and disagree. I support the war on terror and in Iraq, and disagree with those who oppose it. But I'll never tell them "Shut up!," or go through any steps to silence their dissent. They're doing what they think is right. I'm not black, and I disagree with many, many things black leaders have done throughout the years, but I would never stand by if David Duke or some other crazy ass tried to cart them off to internment camps or something.

But I just can't understand how people can't see the hatred for what it is! I can understand if there was a group of people who were against you, and you hated them just as a natural reaction. If there was a drug gang in your neighborhood, who were accosting you and yelling profanities and threats at you whenever you left your house, you are not supposed to hate them according to Jesus, but I can understand WHY you'd hate them.

But gay people aren't going out there and attacking people on their way to church, or trying to take down the government of the United States. Some of the things these people say are just...jaw droppng. "If gay people get married, it will destroy the institute of marriage!" Exactly how will that happen? I'll get married, and months later gays are allowed to married, and all of a sudden, I'll no longer love my wife? They claim they're trying to infiltrate the schools and take over the educational system, and then do god knows what to your defenseless children! I actually oppose teaching anything graphic or detailed about gays in school, just tell kids there are gay people out there and leave it at that. The gays only want to stop the hatred early on, but I think that should be kept to a bare minimum in school. My whole opinion of the school issue is, children don't even know where Washington D.C. is on a map, who the Vice-President is, who the first President is, what 2 divided 2 is, hell, some of these kids don't know WHAT country their in! Just leave the basics, and let them figure out the sex stuff at home, or somewhere else. Learn to read first!

Some time ago, there was a 5 year old who was thrown out of a Catholic school because the school discovered her mom was gay. (As if the Catholics are in a position to judge, and I used to BE a Catholic!) The priest in charge of the school was on Bill O'Reilly's radio program, and actually told O'Reilly, being dead srious, if Jesus was alive today, he would have thrown that little girl out, too. You got to be kidding me! Like Jesus would be sitting behind a desk, looking all mean and dour, and tell the girl, because her MOM was gay, which she had no control over, being she was, you know, FIVE YEARS OLD, she would be thrown out of school and had to find some other place to learn, she wasn't welcome anymore. And most of the callers were agreeing with the priest! O'Reilly, thank heavens, was in total disagreement.

There's an entire website called godhatesfags, that shows a picture of Matthew Shepard, murdered because he was gay, burning in hell, and listed the days he had been burning so far. A preacher runs this site, a guy with a whole congregation, and a lot of followers. When the Supreme Court overturned the Texas sodomy law, a law which affects them in no way whatsoever, conservatives and the Religious Right had a fit, and were denouncing the Supreme Court, gays, Bush for not doing anything to stop this (I think he was busy trying to stop the terrorists or something... like preventing gay people from being together is more important than bin Laden trying to kill every American on Earth!) When Jesus came to Earth, He said forgive your enemies, don't judge others, love all people, no matter who they are. And in case we didn't get it the first time, he said it 10 or 11 more times, then he gave us parables, as analogies if we didn't understand direct instructions, then, if people STILL DIDN'T GET IT, He allowed Himself to be tortured and killed, all the while not judging His torturers and begging for God to be merciful toward them. THEN, the last thing He did was to forive everyone. So basically, if people still hated other people for no reason, well, if God can't help you see the light, no one can. I know a lot of christians, from many denominations, and too most of them really hate gays people. One guy was pounding his fist in his palm while isagreeing with me, getting so angry I just backed off. And these are supposed to be loving souls. There are, however, a lot of other christians who agree with me, and are also fed up with the whole hateful attitudes to gays. They might not approve of their lifestyle, but they treat them with the same dignity and respect as anyone else. Gays are hated because being gay isn't natural - are computers, heart implants, tickling, Viagra, natural? Gays can't have children, so they are evil and shouldn't be allowed to marry - many women and men out tehre can't have children, are they evil also? What if they simply don't want kids, as opposed to the church saying to women in poor countries, "Have all the kids your body lets you, never mind the massive population explosion, the fact that you can't even afford to feed yourself, much less the 15 children we're making you have, or the fact that you live in a cardboard box." They say gay people are trying to destroy the moral fabric of society - one, they never say this about the mafia, drug cartels, an every other hardened criminal out there. Two, if gay people are trying to destroy the moral fabric, how are they doing this, and why are they failing miserably? Gay people are the ones telling husbands to beat their wives, parents to beat their children, angry people to kill their enemies, thieves to take what they want, and terrorists to attack America? Yeah, right!
 
You go, Mabus!
Many of these people who spend their lives telling you how to run YOUR life are spending a substantial time away from prying eyes, doing the very things they're telling you not to do. The only rule is, "don't get caught." Hypocrisy comes naturally to such people. Jimmy Swaggart, getting his knob polished in the back of his Lincoln from a twenty dollar pro, and then crying before the cameras like a freaking sissy, "I'm a sinner, pray for me"! Jim Bakker, messing around with the uh...boys. But then, I guess being married to Tammy Faye would make ANYONE look at other men as an alternative.
No one could ever offer me proof that anything that happens on earth OFFENDS God. He has his judgement for everyone when the time comes, pure and simple. The way you live your life OFFENDS the aforementioned hypocrites, who will do anything to make sure that you are proscribed from living life the way you choose to, since none of them have the guts to ever have an opinion of their own, or the boldness to break from the pack. Many, although not all, of this tribe profess to be Christians, although you know it's a bunch of bullshit. Jesus himself warned everybody about those who pray too loud in the front pew.
It's the true Christians who live their lives as an example to others, and welcome all into their house regardless of how they conduct their lives, and leave a positive impression on all they come in contact with. It's God's love. You only leave an impression of God's hate or God's bigotry or God's ignorance on people who are hateful, bigoted, and ignorant. There's no shortage of THEM.
In my forty two years, there's something I've noticed: the guys who complain too loud about gays in their midst are usually hiding something. Also the ones who flipped out, had toxic reactions to gays in their midst usually turned out to be guys who routinely sexually harrassed women on a regular basis, but then, that's just an observation.
America's full of hypocrites. I guess one learns to live beside them.
 
boy i'm glad it's the christians getting slammed for this

for once all the hatred isn't flowing towrds us jews.

one thing that REALLY bothers me; why are the homosexuals called gay? they are not gay (gay means happy) they are homosexual. call it what it is.

in case it matters, i too have never liked jimmy swaggert, pat robertson, and the rest of that ilk. they give conservatives a bad name.

steve
 
Re: boy i'm glad it's the christians getting slammed for this

areenactor said:

one thing that REALLY bothers me; why are the homosexuals called gay? they are not gay (gay means happy) they are homosexual. call it what it is.

Language evolves.

For an example, would anyone here use the term "niggardly"?

(Older English word for miserly)

Gay now means homosexual. Gay still can mean happy, and any dictionary will tell you that, but they also will generally tell you it fell out of fashion around the 1930's.
 
No, what's the saddest is that Christians throughout the ages, the vast silent majority of Christianity, has done SO MUCH GOOD, yet the ones who are the loudest are the haters! There are two kinds of people in the world, those who give, produce, create, and those who take, criticize, and hurt others. One of the people I've always been a huge fan of is Mother Theresa. She saw the poor in India, and decided, "The hell with waiting for the government to do something, I'll just feed them myself!" And she quietly became one of the most famous people in history. Does anyone remember one critic of Mother Theresa? Who cares about them, what did they ever do!?

In some African nations, the Christian missionaries ARE the government! They basically do for the people what the government refuses to do, feed them, clothe them, care for them. The "real" governments give the people no opportunities whatsoever, or wage war with some other faction for...who the hell cares...and kill the general population in the process.

And most of these little judgemental people never really helped anyone! All the Christians I know, who are good, and don't hate and judge, do more for their fellow man than the loud mouths who CLAIM to help everyone. Every good Christian I know, who really understands what Jesus said, is humble, quiet, non-judgemental, forgiving, and treats everyone as equals. They give, not because they fear going to hell, but because they genuinely care for their fellow man, however high or low they are, and whoever they are. They don't stop and ask if the person deserves love and kindness, they give it without question. Mother Theresa never asked the people she was helping what their views were on gays, abortion, or if they belonged to the "correct" religious denomination.

Go look at that godhatesfags site. The entire site basically says, multiple times, that you must be a specific, certain sexual orientation, hold certain beliefs, or God hates your guts and will toss you in hell. I wonder how many mouths that loud mouthed bastard who runs that site has fed, or how many people he has visited in jail, or how many shirts he gave off his back?
 
well, believe it or not..

i do use the terms gay, and niggardly.
when i am talking about homosexuality, i say that.
when i talk about extreem happiness i say gay.
gay has been bastardizes into a slang for homosexuality,
but it is not correct! why not use the proper terms?
if there is nothing wrong with the acts?, then what's wrong with the name?

steve
 
http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a2_271b.html

It may come as a shock to some people, but language DOES evolve ... what is "correct," especially in a language that adapts and changes as swiftly as English does, will always have to reflect common usage to some extent if it's going to be relevant.

In other words, you can insist words must retain the exact same connotations they had fifty years ago, but don't be surprised if people snicker if you say you're "feeling gay" when you mean you're cheerful.
 
Steve, look at it this way: it's the ultimate irony. Many (though certainly not all) homosexuals are very unhappy people, having been traumatized by discovering that they're different, and that society demonizes them for that difference. They have to live their lives surrounded by their own for comfort in a hostile greater environment. Very ironic.
The word has been co-opted, under duress, and never again will correlate with its original definition, which is very sad, since, in and of itself, it's a beautiful word. Happy, ecstatic, sunny. Gay.
My sister, by the way, is one of the ones who loves what she is and basically has a middle finger for the rest of the world, she doesn't give a fuck what anyone else thinks, and if you don't like it, well you know what you can go do, anyway. I always envied her...I wish I had that attitude. I could never have one, I care too damn much what people think. It's a fault.
 
How can you be gay at birth? Doesn't this defy science and logic? When one is born, doesn't the child have to learn these traits? how can you learn as a fetus? As the child grows, he/she learns these things by observing and acting. You can't do that while still in the womb. And as far as being Christians goes, a lot of them are hypocrites. You're supposed to love one another regardless of what they've become. They have interpreted the Bible for what they want to think, instead of the actual meaning it says in the book. That's the beauty of the Bible...its all in the interpretation. However, I do believe being homosexual is an abomination before God. Now, I'm not gonna tell you how to live your life; everyman(woman) is in charge of your own destiny, but you will sooner or later, have to answer to God in the end. People can give you opinions, its up to you what you do with it. I do believe, however, that being a homosexual makes you no less an individual than an heterosexual. But if you read the Bible, it says Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve. Then again, what is it that you find in a gay relationship that you can't find in a natural one? that is the one question I have yet to find a honest answer to
 
What about hatred of religion. Christian and Jewish people are always being discriminated against. Its always no more prayer or no more saying under god or no more 10 commandments. anyways i dont hate gay people. I think it is VERY wrong to be gay however. Just like if you robbed somebody I wouldnt hate you, but i wouldnt put up with you doing it.

Psycho
 
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