Guilty of non-consentual tickling beyond limits????

[gig1965]

Hi all,
got an unusual question ...would like your opinions.....your HONEST opinions.

I was playing with an old friend last night . She loves being tickled and can take it as well as anyone i have ever known. she usually likes about 3 hours of pretty intense tickling. When she uses her safe word it's really from exhaustion rather than not being able to withstand tthe tickling.

I have a new "toy" ...it's the ULTRAsonic generation of electric toothbrushes(Sonicare is sonic waves, not ultrasonic)
And don't ask ....not available to the public......yet.

So Lee(I kid you not!) was eager to try it and hoped that this new device would be able to push her past her limits which has never happened before.
Her exact words to me were" no matter how much i beg DO NOT STOP for 30 minutes...no safeword."

This thing is just plain viscious. Lee rarely begs and it always takes a while.
within minutes she was screaming her safeword which i promptly ignored.
after another minute i was quite convinced that she meant it and wanted out....i just know her well. yet she had wanted to visit the exact place she now found herself and I remember she was adamant ....no matter how much she begged NOT to stop.
I gave her 5 more minutes and stopped at the 10 minute mark rather than 30 minutes. Screaming laughter and constant begging/safeword all the way.

She's really REALLy pisssssssssssssed over it, in spite of her request before it started.

I'm not really feeling too good about it either because i was convinced this thing had her way beyond what she could handle...i sensed a little panic in her laughter, and while i stopped it WAY short of the 30 mins I still wonder if at some point....does it becomes non-consentual despite prior agreement , IF AT ONE POINT THE LER KNOWS the lee truly wants out?

I would appreciate some HONEST feedback....from your gut.

Please no self-serving, self-engraciating,self agrandising/posturing for public image, etc....just what is your honest opinion?
i feel like i probably should have stopped earlier, regardless of potentially robbing her of what she had ORIGINALLY been looking for.

 

[MrTicklefeet]

"after another minute i was quite convinced that she meant it and wanted out....i just know her well. yet..."

Like Allen Ginsberg once said, "First thought, best thought." Something like this, the first intuition as you admited, would have been a good place to stop long enough to check in with her, and make sure she was doing okay up there. Give her a dignified out should it have been far more intense than she had counted on.
That's would I would have done. Good to keep the communication open.

 

[Redmage]

It's not uncommon for a bottom to bite off more than s/he can chew, so even if she did insist on "no safeword" and "30 minutes no matter what" that's really no excuse. If you suspected strongly that she had changed her mind, then it's hard to think of a good reason not to at least pause to check. When playing without a safeword, that's the top's foremost responsibility.

 

[brianspencer66]

yeah I agree best to simply stop if your not sure. You can always start again a second time once your sure she can handle it. Then have the time of your life tickling her

 

[WheresThe Clip?]

Difficult this, and perhaps a case of 'six of one, and half a dozen of the other'. On the one hand if she says no safewords and ignore any begging, that is asking for trouble. On the other hand if you see someone is in distress, common sense should tell you to stop.

Frankly if someone wants to play without a safeword you should refuse, as it puts too much risk: of their health, your friendship, and perhaps your liberty on you.

 

[P[a]pi]

After the first 5 minutes you should have given her a break and asked her if she was seriously done.

If she says "yes," then it's over, if she says "no" then give her another 5 minutes (or however long it takes her to break again) then repeat the question.

Sorry, if she is afraid of letting you tickler her in bondage again.

But, if she does let you do it again, then listen to her better.



Something similar happened with my girlfriend and I awhile ago, but as soon as we got started I quickly knew she wasn't going to be able to take what she thought she could. And as soon as she realized it, we stopped.

Showing the lee that they "can't do it" is good enough. You shouldn't torture them because they set their goal too high. They are just trying to be tough in their own way.

 

[StevePerry4Ever]

290 - Sex Offender

From a legal standpoint (I now this isn't sex but...) during the course of any sexual activity, If one partner says "stop" and the other doesn't, it becomes sexual assualt or rape. I ask a cop I work with.

 

[Banshee]

Hmmm

Interesting scenario and question. I'm not sure what the entire correct answer is, probably a bit from each opinion already expressed.

 

[drew70]

Since the opening post asked for opinions, I'll give mine for what it's worth.

Guilty as charged, beyond a shadow of a doubt.

Now you know why they call it a safe word.

Some might argue that the woman got what she deserved, making such a stupid request. Whether she deserved it or not doesn't matter. The safe word is sacrosanct. He should have stopped at its first utterance, and left it to her to decide whether or not to proceed further. By continuing on, he took that decision away from her.

Others might argue that by their previous agreement, he was right to ignore the safe word at her request. That's bullshit. He should have never agreed to such a request. By agreeing to ignore her pleas for cessation, he's agreeing to committing assault should it come to it.

For the record, I'm not a lawyer, and the above is strictly my opinion.

 

[Banshee]

Well Said!

Since the opening post asked for opinions, I'll give mine for what it's worth.

Guilty as charged, beyond a shadow of a doubt.

Now you know why they call it a safe word.

Some might argue that the woman got what she deserved, making such a stupid request. Whether she deserved it or not doesn't matter. The safe word is sacrosanct. He should have stopped at its first utterance, and left it to her to decide whether or not to proceed further. By continuing on, he took that decision away from her.

Others might argue that by their previous agreement, he was right to ignore the safe word at her request. That's bullshit. He should have never agreed to such a request. By agreeing to ignore her pleas for cessation, he's agreeing to committing assault should it come to it.

For the record, I'm not a lawyer, and the above is strictly my opinion.

Well said. Though given the guys question it's obvious the scenario has been bugging him.

 

[minerva]

Hmm, you said, you 'ignored' her when she screamed her safeword.

I know from experience, that if my 'ler doesn't stop and ignores me completely while I'm feeling I can't take it anymore and scream and beg, I tend to panic and get pissed as well.
Then again, if he doesn't stop, but talks to me, teases me, tells me, there's nothing I can do to make him stop, then I'm exactly where I want to be 😉

Not only do I find it extremely hot, when he's teasing me, while I'm begging desperately, but this way I'm also sure, he's with me constantly, watching my every reaction and will be able to stop immediately should I really have any problems.

When he's completely ignoring me, I get scared, he's too lost in the tickling itself to be able to sense any kind of trouble and that's when I start to panic and get pissed.

Not sure if you did talk to her during those 10 minutes, but maybe that was the problem.

Anyway, I wouldn't really call it non-concensual, since she asked you to push her beyond her limits and not stop, no matter how much she begged.
But since she got pissed, stopping was definitely the right thing to do.

Hope you'll be able to talk this through with your friend and this experience will help both of you to understand each other better and fully enjoy your next sessions. 🙂

 

[giggle-maker]

I think the fact that you are genuinely bothered by it and stopped at ten minutes instead of the thirty minutes as agreed upon showes that harming her was clearly not your intent. Furthermore, you venting your uneasyness and self-guilt here on the board shows your concern for your friend. Hopefuly the two of you have worked this out and have become better for it. In the future, never agree to any scenario that invloves ignoring the safeword.

It is, after all, what it's used for.

 

[Andromalius]

Hi all,
got an unusual question ...would like your opinions.....your HONEST opinions.

I was playing with an old friend last night . She loves being tickled and can take it as well as anyone i have ever known. she usually likes about 3 hours of pretty intense tickling. When she uses her safe word it's really from exhaustion rather than not being able to withstand tthe tickling.

I have a new "toy" ...it's the ULTRAsonic generation of electric toothbrushes(Sonicare is sonic waves, not ultrasonic)
And don't ask ....not available to the public......yet.

So Lee(I kid you not!) was eager to try it and hoped that this new device would be able to push her past her limits which has never happened before.
Her exact words to me were" no matter how much i beg DO NOT STOP for 30 minutes...no safeword."

This thing is just plain viscious. Lee rarely begs and it always takes a while.
within minutes she was screaming her safeword which i promptly ignored.
after another minute i was quite convinced that she meant it and wanted out....i just know her well. yet she had wanted to visit the exact place she now found herself and I remember she was adamant ....no matter how much she begged NOT to stop.
I gave her 5 more minutes and stopped at the 10 minute mark rather than 30 minutes. Screaming laughter and constant begging/safeword all the way.

She's really REALLy pisssssssssssssed over it, in spite of her request before it started.

I'm not really feeling too good about it either because i was convinced this thing had her way beyond what she could handle...i sensed a little panic in her laughter, and while i stopped it WAY short of the 30 mins I still wonder if at some point....does it becomes non-consentual despite prior agreement , IF AT ONE POINT THE LER KNOWS the lee truly wants out?

I would appreciate some HONEST feedback....from your gut.

Please no self-serving, self-engraciating,self agrandising/posturing for public image, etc....just what is your honest opinion?
i feel like i probably should have stopped earlier, regardless of potentially robbing her of what she had ORIGINALLY been looking for.

Best advice: If she looks like she really can't take it, then let her out. If it was a different woman, then she could've taken it as far as a lawsuit or even criminal charges.

 

[huskys]

The fact that you said you said that you were "quite convinced that she meant it", it probably the key.
You two are certainly no strangers to this type of play from what you said, and thats why you did pick up on this, even though you didn't stop.
Also Minerva raised a few good points. A brief stop to verbally tease gives the lee a rest whilst still leaving her feeling at your mercy, and able to communicate much better if there is a real problem!!!

 

[milagros317]

My honest opinion is that you should have stopped after a minute of her yelling her safeword, let her get her breath, and asked, "So you didn't really mean no safeword?"

That way, you could have started again and done a full half hour if she said, "You shouldn't have stopped."

 

[kis123]

I truly believe gig gets the point!

I do respect the fact that he has remorse over what happened. You now know that a person's initial intentions can dramatically change once the session starts. I truly do not believe you meant to harm her and if she really starts cooling down and thinking about it, she'll realize that she has some responsibility over what happened.

From now on, heed the safeword, if for no other reason than to make sure she's okay. I know when I got tickled by two lers, the ler in me came out and didn't want to conceed. I ended up with a nasty leg cramp that scared the crap out of all of us.

Don't blame yourself; there's enough blame for the both of you. She'll cool off and realize her role and you two will be back to tickle play in no time.

 

[phfttklr]

I'm with Kris and I also don't put too much blame on gig as far as, they shouldn't have made it a point to ignore the safeword in the first place. It's there for a reason and as bad ,as say, locking someone up and throwing away the key. If you want to say "Ignore my begging to stop" then fine but with the understanding of all parties, the safeword is just that. She should accept just as much blame. Sorry, my opinion. Hopefully, this won't lead to any bad feelings toward each other and the two of you can learn from it.

I hope it turns out alright between you two. It's hard enough to find a partner and even harder to find a good friend.

 

[Horatio]

Hmmm. I probably would have gone the full 30 minutes with her anyway - a deal's a deal, right? Of course, taunt her the entire time about how tough she thought she was. If she was going to be pissed at you anyway, you may as well enjoyed yourself for the additional 20 minutes.

In fact, I might have gone another 5 on top of the 30 to make sure she never forgets the session.
















(tongue firmly in cheek)

 

[method11236]

thought exercise

imagine you couldn't see or hear the person...

just firmly bound feet sticking out of a soundproof box (the person inside is comfortably bound, can breathe regularly, and can't hear whats going on outside).

How long would you tickle those feet? What if you knew they belonged to someone who was hyperticklish?

Do we recognize and empathize with suffering if we can't see it?


-meth

 

[Mitchell]

This is a tricky situation. On one hand, it can be said that she asked for it, with the "No safeword until 30 minutes no matter what". That to me was unwise on her part, since she didnt know how she would really react.

On the other hand, I do agree with mils that if she was really beyond her limit, you could have stopped for a minute, to check how she was, and let her catch her breath. and then always resumed. From your post, it sounds that you have true remorse over it, and did not mean to hurt her, or push her beyond her limits.

My advice, before any future tickling sessions with her: Honest discussion and feedback is needed. Tell her that while it is your desire to honor her request of "Do not stop, no matter what", that you both really need to see how the session is going, and what her reaction really is. As we all know, on some nights our tickling stamina can be much greater than others, due to who the tickler is, how they tickle, body fatigue and condition, etc.

I hope you can work this through with her. Good Luck.

Mitch

 

[riker13]

I think it was just a bad idea to use something that was completely new, and do that without a safeword. If you hadn't used that thing before, then she doesn't know what it's like, or if it might even hurt. I think it would have been better to just try it out first.

 

[Angelique]

My honest opinion is that you should have stopped after a minute of her yelling her safeword, let her get her breath, and asked, "So you didn't really mean no safeword?"

That way, you could have started again and done a full half hour if she said, "You shouldn't have stopped."

I agree. I think it's more dangerous to play with a safe word and decide to ignore it, than to play with no safe word at all.

By the way, I just looked on the Internet, and I found this ultrasonic brush available. In France.🙂

 

[Lea28]

OOOO...I would love it

Hi all,
got an unusual question ...would like your opinions.....your HONEST opinions.

I was playing with an old friend last night . She loves being tickled and can take it as well as anyone i have ever known. she usually likes about 3 hours of pretty intense tickling. When she uses her safe word it's really from exhaustion rather than not being able to withstand tthe tickling.

I have a new "toy" ...it's the ULTRAsonic generation of electric toothbrushes(Sonicare is sonic waves, not ultrasonic)
And don't ask ....not available to the public......yet.

So Lee(I kid you not!) was eager to try it and hoped that this new device would be able to push her past her limits which has never happened before.
Her exact words to me were" no matter how much i beg DO NOT STOP for 30 minutes...no safeword."

This thing is just plain viscious. Lee rarely begs and it always takes a while.
within minutes she was screaming her safeword which i promptly ignored.
after another minute i was quite convinced that she meant it and wanted out....i just know her well. yet she had wanted to visit the exact place she now found herself and I remember she was adamant ....no matter how much she begged NOT to stop.
I gave her 5 more minutes and stopped at the 10 minute mark rather than 30 minutes. Screaming laughter and constant begging/safeword all the way.

She's really REALLy pisssssssssssssed over it, in spite of her request before it started.

I'm not really feeling too good about it either because i was convinced this thing had her way beyond what she could handle...i sensed a little panic in her laughter, and while i stopped it WAY short of the 30 mins I still wonder if at some point....does it becomes non-consentual despite prior agreement , IF AT ONE POINT THE LER KNOWS the lee truly wants out?

I would appreciate some HONEST feedback....from your gut.

Please no self-serving, self-engraciating,self agrandising/posturing for public image, etc....just what is your honest opinion?
i feel like i probably should have stopped earlier, regardless of potentially robbing her of what she had ORIGINALLY been looking for.

I would love that... a true tickle fiend with a toothbrush... I just hope i could designate a few of his targets 😉

Lea

 

[ViperGTS]

(edit) I realize now that if I express my true opinion, I'll get flamed...

 

[Cosmo_ac]

i'm inclined to agree with Kiss that their is fault on both sides here. Hopefully though, the both of you will be able to get beyond it and learn a little more from it. Best of luck to the both of you.