"Hate" crimes?

[DontAskJusTckle]

Does anybody besides me find this to be a ludicrous concept? Think about it. If you commit assault and battery just for the hell of it, it carries a lesser punishment than if you did it out of racial prejudice. Does that sound right to you? Anybody? Beuller?

Does the reason for the assault matter? What about the guy who can't stand his white brother inlaw and finally beats the crap out of him? Wouldn't that be a "hate" crime? No, because the brother inlaw is not a member of a "protected group." Because we all know that some groups deserve more protection than others. It's not like all men and women are created equal or anything.

In my opinion is just another example of liberal politcal correctness and white guilt run amock.

 

[The Fallen Angel]

In my opinion is just another example of liberal politcal correctness and white guilt run amock.

white guilt? am i suppose to feel guilty for something?

 

[totoforhire]

I think it's ridiculous because most violent crimes are motivated by hate.

 

[Soda Bobinski]

I hate crimes , too , but I don't think I'm alone.

 

[venray]

Does anybody besides me find this to be a ludicrous concept? Think about it. If you commit assault and battery just for the hell of it, it carries a lesser punishment than if you did it out of racial prejudice. Does that sound right to you? Anybody? Beuller?

Does the reason for the assault matter? What about the guy who can't stand his white brother inlaw and finally beats the crap out of him? Wouldn't that be a "hate" crime? No, because the brother inlaw is not a member of a "protected group." Because we all know that some groups deserve more protection than others. It's not like all men and women are created equal or anything.

In my opinion is just another example of liberal politcal correctness and white guilt run amock.

Unfortunately all men and women are not TREATED equally......and beating on someone just because of their race, how they look,their disability, or their sexual preference is pretty much as low as one can get....

 

[LD_Tickler]

The name "hate" crime does seem a bit silly to me, but I think the distinction has value. For example, I'm more troubled by the criminal who goes out and attacks people because he doesn't like their skin colour than I am by the guy who needs to hold up liquor stores because he has no cash.

 

[phant0m]

The thing about hate crimes is that they're usually committed against complete strangers for no motivation other than that distinguishing characteristic. There's a difference between being the first person to turn to violence in a heated disagreement and randomly attacking someone who doesn't expect it.

Hate crimes also have a higher chance of repeat offenders. Someone who attacks a gay person for no other reason than the opportunity presenting itself is probably going to take advantage of the opportunity again in the future. I'm not saying the current laws are perfect or that the system is enforcing them as they should be, but a crime that is solely committed because of race, gender, sexuality, etc. should be punished more harshly.

The idea of it doesn't bother me so much as the way it is handled. Only crimes committed by a certain group on other groups is usually considered a hate crime.

This is absolutely true. Unequally applying the law is only going to raise racial tensions in areas that are already tense enough for this sort of crime to occur.

Also, should this thread fall under the politics subforum since we're discussing laws? I'm new here but I could see this topic getting heated fairly quickly.

 

[totoforhire]

The thing about hate crimes is that they're usually committed against complete strangers for no motivation other than that distinguishing characteristic. There's a difference between being the first person to turn to violence in a heated disagreement and randomly attacking someone who doesn't expect it.

Hate crimes also have a higher chance of repeat offenders. Someone who attacks a gay person for no other reason than the opportunity presenting itself is probably going to take advantage of the opportunity again in the future. I'm not saying the current laws are perfect or that the system is enforcing them as they should be, but a crime that is solely committed because of race, gender, sexuality, etc. should be punished more harshly.



This is absolutely true. Unequally applying the law is only going to raise racial tensions in areas that are already tense enough for this sort of crime to occur.

Also, should this thread fall under the politics subforum since we're discussing laws? I'm new here but I could see this topic getting heated fairly quickly.

Do we have proof of this?

 

[Sunriseticklee]

Wow... So if I beat up my white husband because he's a white sonofabitch, I get less jail time than if he beats me up?

COOL!

Seriously though.... I didn't know the law worked like that. I thought that a hate crime was a hate crime. I didn't know that it would be a free for all as long as the victim was white. I also would like to research it to see if this is indeed true.

Interesting

 

[phant0m]

Do we have proof of this?

Which part are you disputing?

 

[Helena]

Here's my penny.

I think all violent crimes happen because of rage and hate.

The reasons for the rage and hate in violent crimes isn't always apparent to others.

Sometimes it is just a random thing.

The helpful thing when police are investing a violent crime is discovering the motive. I think when emotions are hateful when commiting a crime, it makes the news more often because it has the "shock and awe" factor. Perhaps it's a stabbing, murder, light the body on fire kind of thing. Overkill. It gets people talking. I do think the more we hate someone, the worse the crime will be.

Just saying.

 

[DontAskJusTckle]

Unfortunately all men and women are not TREATED equally......and beating on someone just because of their race, how they look,their disability, or their sexual preference is pretty much as low as one can get....

How can a government who doesn't treat people equally expect the people to treat people equally? Shouldn't this philosophy of equality start at the top?

 

[Jagermeistered]

How can a government who doesn't treat people equally expect the people to treat people equally? Shouldn't this philosophy of equality start at the top?

False. It should start at the bottom to top. This will never happen! Egalitarianism is just a fallacy, and 'true' equality will stem from a an open-minded society(and, not a closed one).

 

[venray]

How can a government who doesn't treat people equally expect the people to treat people equally? Shouldn't this philosophy of equality start at the top?

No. It starts with us. If we cant (or wont)do it then those we vote into office wont either.....the government represents the wishes of the majority of voters for better or worse.....and screw the rest of us...

 

[totoforhire]

Which part are you disputing?

Do we actually know that people who commit hate crimes are likely to be repeat offenders? Aren't most people who commit violent crimes repeat offenders, anyway?

 

[Jagermeistered]

Do we actually know that people who commit hate crimes are likely to be repeat offenders? Aren't most people who commit violent crimes repeat offenders, anyway?

Anybody who commits a crime could be seen as a repeat offender! Whether - you lie, cheat, steal; commit: arson, assault, or even murder... If they can be saved, how does that satisfy the victim, family, next of kin, friends, etc...?

 

[totoforhire]

Anybody who commits a crime could be seen as a repeat offender! Whether - you lie, cheat, steal; commit: arson, assault, or even murder... If they can be saved, how does that satisfy the victim, family, next of kin, friends, etc...?

I just think that if two murders are identical but one is committed because of race or if race was involved, does that make it a worse crime?

He said that people who commit hate crimes are likely to be repeat offenders of that crime. Do we have proof of this?

 

[Dave Pavet]

Hate Crimes...Ha... Another stupid PC label.

 

[Jagermeistered]

I just think that if two murders are identical but one is committed because of race or if race was involved, does that make it a worse crime?

It shouldn't!

He said that people who commit hate crimes are likely to be repeat offenders of that crime. Do we have proof of this?

It's called forensics and statistics...

Race is just one variable to endless possibilities! Don't forget about the other categories...

"Hate Crime"(currently) is a false ideology, but their are other ways to treat the guilty; I shall not draw from my Aristotelian ideas... Let's just say, prisons need an overhaul!

 

[totoforhire]

It's called forensics.

Don't just say "It's called forensics". Back up your claims with facts. At least post some links that supports your view. That is how debates work.

 

[phant0m]

Do we actually know that people who commit hate crimes are likely to be repeat offenders? Aren't most people who commit violent crimes repeat offenders, anyway?

I cannot find the study I read (was a while ago), but it basically noted that it seems as though hate crimes are committed by repeat offenders. There isn't definitive proof since so many hate crimes go without an arrest or conviction.

People who commit violent crimes are more likely to be repeat offenders in some cases. Take person A who gets into a physical confrontation over a personal matter. Person A is only going to be violent again if another personal matter of significant emotional magnitude comes up in the future. Person A is probably more likely than the average person to commit a violent crime again, but not by a large amount. If Person B goes out and beats a homosexual in an ally way for the self righteous fun of it, there's always going to be the trigger (homosexuals will still exist) for them to commit that crime again. Person C mugs people for cash. It's the only way he knows to make end meet and he has no intention of giving up his lifestyle. In this example, both person B and C are highly likely to be repeat offenders. Not everyone who commits a violent crime has the mindset/trigger to be a repeat offender, but everyone who commits a hate crime (if it is a real hate crime and not misreported as such) will have the mindset and trigger barring some sort of revelation or change of heart.

It's also important to note that many hate crimes (around 40%) are not violent acts themselves, but rather illegal acts meant to promote violence. If a person spray paints "N*ggers need to by lynched" on a black persons house, do they deserve the same punishment as someone who creates graffiti on a highway overpass? One action is a crime against government property, the other is a crime against society, meant to instill fear in a community.

Edit: Forgot to add the FBI online reports for the 2009 year. http://www2.fbi.gov/ucr/hc2009/index.html

 

[totoforhire]

I cannot find the study I read (was a while ago), but it basically noted that it seems as though hate crimes are committed by repeat offenders. There isn't definitive proof since so many hate crimes go without an arrest or conviction.

People who commit violent crimes are more likely to be repeat offenders in some cases. Take person A who gets into a physical confrontation over a personal matter. Person A is only going to be violent again if another personal matter of significant emotional magnitude comes up in the future. Person A is probably more likely than the average person to commit a violent crime again, but not by a large amount. If Person B goes out and beats a homosexual in an ally way for the self righteous fun of it, there's always going to be the trigger (homosexuals will still exist) for them to commit that crime again. Person C mugs people for cash. It's the only way he knows to make end meet and he has no intention of giving up his lifestyle. In this example, both person B and C are highly likely to be repeat offenders. Not everyone who commits a violent crime has the mindset/trigger to be a repeat offender, but everyone who commits a hate crime (if it is a real hate crime and not misreported as such) will have the mindset and trigger barring some sort of revelation or change of heart.

It's also important to note that many hate crimes (around 40%) are not violent acts themselves, but rather illegal acts meant to promote violence. If a person spray paints "N*ggers need to by lynched" on a black persons house, do they deserve the same punishment as someone who creates graffiti on a highway overpass? One action is a crime against government property, the other is a crime against society, meant to instill fear in a community.

Well one is public property and one is someone's home.

 

[totoforhire]

I cannot find the study I read (was a while ago), but it basically noted that it seems as though hate crimes are committed by repeat offenders. There isn't definitive proof since so many hate crimes go without an arrest or conviction.

People who commit violent crimes are more likely to be repeat offenders in some cases. Take person A who gets into a physical confrontation over a personal matter. Person A is only going to be violent again if another personal matter of significant emotional magnitude comes up in the future. Person A is probably more likely than the average person to commit a violent crime again, but not by a large amount. If Person B goes out and beats a homosexual in an ally way for the self righteous fun of it, there's always going to be the trigger (homosexuals will still exist) for them to commit that crime again. Person C mugs people for cash. It's the only way he knows to make end meet and he has no intention of giving up his lifestyle. In this example, both person B and C are highly likely to be repeat offenders. Not everyone who commits a violent crime has the mindset/trigger to be a repeat offender, but everyone who commits a hate crime (if it is a real hate crime and not misreported as such) will have the mindset and trigger barring some sort of revelation or change of heart.

It's also important to note that many hate crimes (around 40%) are not violent acts themselves, but rather illegal acts meant to promote violence. If a person spray paints "N*ggers need to by lynched" on a black persons house, do they deserve the same punishment as someone who creates graffiti on a highway overpass? One action is a crime against government property, the other is a crime against society, meant to instill fear in a community.

How do you even determine what counts as a hate crime? What if a white man was robbed because he was flashing money around? Would it be a hate crime if two black men committed the act? Or would it be a hate crime if the mugger used a racial slur?

 

[totoforhire]

Is rape a hate crime against women?

 

[Sunriseticklee]

Is rape a hate crime against women?

What? Men can't be raped?