Hopefully people realize that Randy Moss........

[primetime]

Is ONE DIMENSIONAL. This guy gets way too much hype. He is a physical specimen, but as a Wide Receiver, he is AVERAGE.

Why do I say this? He's ONE DIMENSIONAL. Think about it for a second. Everytime you recall a Randy Moss highlight, what type of play is it? A FREAKIN BOMB. The "9" route. Hail Mary. Just throw it up and Moss go gets it. He is the most feared deep threat, but that is ALL he is good for.

How many times have you seen Moss beat defenses on slants, curls, hooks or anything short? You don't. He can't beat you any other way but the deep pass. As long as you have a safety over top and double him downfield, Randy Moss will be insignificant in the game.

I always laugh when people say they would take Randy Moss instead of Terrell Owens. I am not a T.O. fan and his off the field antics sour him on people, but as a wide receiver, he is superior to Moss. Owens can beat you on any route. He can turn a 2 yard catch into a 70 yard score. Moss can't.

If you don't like Owens, then pick any "superstar" receiver. Chad Ochocinco is better than Moss. Reggie Wayne, Larry Fitzgerald, Anquan Bolden, Miles Austin, etc. People may still think I'm crazy, but if I'm a defensive coordinator, Moss will have to beat me on short routes, because I'm taking away his long ball. Moss won't do it. Let's stop all this ridiculous hype on Moss. He's one dimensional. Look at the playoff game against the Ravens. They took away the long ball, and he disappeared. Coincidence?

 

[FlockOfSeagulls]

Is ONE DIMENSIONAL. This guy gets way too much hype. He is a physical specimen, but as a Wide Receiver, he is AVERAGE.

Why do I say this? He's ONE DIMENSIONAL. Think about it for a second. Everytime you recall a Randy Moss highlight, what type of play is it? A FREAKIN BOMB. The "9" route. Hail Mary. Just throw it up and Moss go gets it. He is the most feared deep threat, but that is ALL he is good for.

How many times have you seen Moss beat defenses on slants, curls, hooks or anything short? You don't. He can't beat you any other way but the deep pass. As long as you have a safety over top and double him downfield, Randy Moss will be insignificant in the game.

I always laugh when people say they would take Randy Moss instead of Terrell Owens. I am not a T.O. fan and his off the field antics sour him on people, but as a wide receiver, he is superior to Moss. Owens can beat you on any route. He can turn a 2 yard catch into a 70 yard score. Moss can't.

If you don't like Owens, then pick any "superstar" receiver. Chad Ochocinco is better than Moss. Reggie Wayne, Larry Fitzgerald, Anquan Bolden, Miles Austin, etc. People may still think I'm crazy, but if I'm a defensive coordinator, Moss will have to beat me on short routes, because I'm taking away his long ball. Moss won't do it. Let's stop all this ridiculous hype on Moss. He's one dimensional. Look at the playoff game against the Ravens. They took away the long ball, and he disappeared. Coincidence?

thats good enough to get in in hall of fame and to be considered one of best WRs of all-time

speaking of ONE DIMENSIONAL...

your boy ''prime time '' was as one-dimensional as they get. Nobody was gonna beat him deep . best cover guy ever for the long ball . I give credit where credit is due .

But when big receivers went over the middle like Michael Irvin they freakin ate his lunch . Hell lots of times in man coverage if the guy ran a slant he just let him go all together .

And you talkin` about a no tacklin` son of a gun. he whiffed so much by diving at guys to avoid contact.

a defensive player who didn`t want to make any tackles... what a novel concept

in 7 games here are headups numbers of Michael Irvin vs. Deion Sanders


7 games ; 43 receptions ; 6.1 receptions per game ; 680 yards ; 97.1 per game average ; 4 TDS

 

[primetime]

Are you serious? A one dimensiolnal corner? Do you even know football? There is no such thing as a one dimensional corner. Either you can cover, or you can't. What are you talking about?

Deion Sanders is the greatest cover corner in NFL history. Does that mean he has never given up a TD or never allowed a receiver to have a big game? No. EVERY corner gets beat. Deion Sanders INTIMIDATED Quarterbacks. Teams didn't throw to his side of the field. Don't you think if Deion was a "one dimensional" corner, teams would beat him on a consistent basis? Deion made tackles when he had to.

As for Moss. He shouldn't be considered one of the greatest receivers of all time. Again, he is one dimensional. He can't beat you on any other route. His numbers are big because if you catch a 60 yard pass all the time, your numbers go up. Moss is the greatest deep threat of all time, but he is not a complete receiver. FAR from it.

 

[Tickle Fiend]

Moss is definently one of the all-time greats. He is a one-dimensionals player and people still can't stop him.

 

[FlockOfSeagulls]

Are you serious? A one dimensiolnal corner? Do you even know football? There is no such thing as a one dimensional corner. Either you can cover, or you can't. What are you talking about?

Deion Sanders is the greatest cover corner in NFL history. Does that mean he has never given up a TD or never allowed a receiver to have a big game? No. EVERY corner gets beat. Deion Sanders INTIMIDATED Quarterbacks. Teams didn't throw to his side of the field. Don't you think if Deion was a "one dimensional" corner, teams would beat him on a consistent basis? Deion made tackles when he had to.

As for Moss. He shouldn't be considered one of the greatest receivers of all time. Again, he is one dimensional. He can't beat you on any other route. His numbers are big because if you catch a 60 yard pass all the time, your numbers go up. Moss is the greatest deep threat of all time, but he is not a complete receiver. FAR from it.

now you sound like the one doesn`t know anything about football 😱

Dallas gameplanned to throw AT DEION with Irvin over the middle . the numbers dont lie . I watched him play for Dallas from 95-99. Like I said he never got beat deep and I do agree with you that amost teams avoided throwing toward him . But he himself as admitted many times on dallas talk shows over the years, he still lives in DFW area; that he only made the tackle as a last resort and always tried to avoid physical contact if possible. the best all around corner was rod woodson.


I agree that Moss is at his best at the deep route and he doesn`t make his money for the most part going over the middle. It is funny to me that you are critical of Moss yet you praise Sanders for doing the same thing

 

[FlockOfSeagulls]

Rod Woodson vs. Deion Sanders


Pro Bowl appearances= Sanders 8 ; Woodson 11

career interceptions = Sanders 53 ; Woodson 71

Int`s returned for TDS = Sanders 9 ; Woodson 12 . 12 ints returned for TD`s is the NFL record

Sanders was 1994 NFL defensive player of the year . Woodson was 1993 NFL defensive player of the year .

Career tackles = Sanders 513 ; Woodson 1,163

Career sacks = Sanders 1 ; Woodson 13.5

Deion Sanders was on the 1990`s all-decade team . Rod Woodson was on 1990`s all-decade team .

Rod Woodson was member of NFL 75th Anniversary All-time team

 

[primetime]

Exactly my point. I said Deion made the tackle when he HAD to. You keep talking about this matchup with Michael Irvin, who was the king of pushoffs. Troy Aikman, and many other Hall Of Fame QBs have said throwing to Deion was always risky. They wanted to avoid him. If Deion was only unbeatable on the dep route, why would he pretty much shut off HALF the field. Man, pay attention. Deion defended slants, hooks, curls, deep routes, name any route. Deion Sanders is the greatest COVER DB of all time. Woodson is the greatest all around corner, but he couldn't cover like Deion could.

Notice Moss is not doing what he did 2 years ago. Moss made his living with the deep ball. No one strikes more fear in the deep ball than Moss. But with a corner and safety over top, Moss disappears in games. Rice gets doubled everytime, but he ran ROUTES with precision. Moss doesn't run with precision. If Moss runs a slant, he doesn't go anywhere. That's why I wonder why so many people like Moss so much. Take away his deep catches and you have what? Nobody.

 

[FlockOfSeagulls]

Exactly my point. I said Deion made the tackle when he HAD to. You keep talking about this matchup with Michael Irvin, who was the king of pushoffs. Troy Aikman, and many other Hall Of Fame QBs have said throwing to Deion was always risky. They wanted to avoid him. If Deion was only unbeatable on the dep route, why would he pretty much shut off HALF the field. Man, pay attention. Deion defended slants, hooks, curls, deep routes, name any route. Deion Sanders is the greatest COVER DB of all time. Woodson is the greatest all around corner, but he couldn't cover like Deion could.

Notice Moss is not doing what he did 2 years ago. Moss made his living with the deep ball. No one strikes more fear in the deep ball than Moss. But with a corner and safety over top, Moss disappears in games. Rice gets doubled everytime, but he ran ROUTES with precision. Moss doesn't run with precision. If Moss runs a slant, he doesn't go anywhere. That's why I wonder why so many people like Moss so much. Take away his deep catches and you have what? Nobody.

then its a slamdunk that the best cornerback to play the game is Rod woodson !!

and if you don`t think Rice didn`t push off then you are bigger Homer than I thought. Rice , Irvin, Brown, and Carter made it an art the way they could ''separate '' from a defender just as the ball came. Its no coincidence these are many of the best WRs to ever play the game

 

[ticklingfeet4fu]

Exactly my point. I said Deion made the tackle when he HAD to. You keep talking about this matchup with Michael Irvin, who was the king of pushoffs. Troy Aikman, and many other Hall Of Fame QBs have said throwing to Deion was always risky. They wanted to avoid him. If Deion was only unbeatable on the dep route, why would he pretty much shut off HALF the field. Man, pay attention. Deion defended slants, hooks, curls, deep routes, name any route. Deion Sanders is the greatest COVER DB of all time. Woodson is the greatest all around corner, but he couldn't cover like Deion could.

Notice Moss is not doing what he did 2 years ago. Moss made his living with the deep ball. No one strikes more fear in the deep ball than Moss. But with a corner and safety over top, Moss disappears in games. Rice gets doubled everytime, but he ran ROUTES with precision. Moss doesn't run with precision. If Moss runs a slant, he doesn't go anywhere. That's why I wonder why so many people like Moss so much. Take away his deep catches and you have what? Nobody.

If you only make tackles when you HAVE too...then you aren't being much of a team player, are you? Meaning if you see a guy 5 to 8 yards down the field who can make the tackle you let that guy make the tackle? To me, that sounds kind of lazy and that could hurt your team down the road. That is just my opinion.

 

[storm7400]

Hopefully people realize that Randy Moss is one dimensional by debating Deion Sanders vs. Rod Woodson?

Thread derailed much 😀

 

[Cy/MiG]

Is ONE DIMENSIONAL. This guy gets way too much hype. He is a physical specimen, but as a Wide Receiver, he is AVERAGE.

He is/was really fast and has good hands and he only plays hard when he wants to, but when he does... he's dangerous. One dimensional? Yeah, probably. So?

Chad Ochocinco is better than Moss.

No, he's not. Never has been, never will be. Ochocinco is the only person who probably thinks he is better than Moss.

Reggie Wayne, Larry Fitzgerald, Anquan Bolden, Miles Austin, etc. People may still think I'm crazy, but if I'm a defensive coordinator, Moss will have to beat me on short routes, because I'm taking away his long ball. Moss won't do it. Let's stop all this ridiculous hype on Moss. He's one dimensional. Look at the playoff game against the Ravens. They took away the long ball, and he disappeared. Coincidence?

Yes Wayne, Fitz and ANDRE JOHNSON are better than Moss---NOW. Miles Austin isn't even in the conversation yet (only one good year so far, could be a fluke, who knows?)

All time? Not yet. Both Fitz and Johnson have time to make it there, but for now, Moss is one of the best ever. And this is someone who doesn't like him saying that.

Moss is definently one of the all-time greats. He is a one-dimensionals player and people still can't stop him.

Exactly. Preach on.

Only Rice and perhaps Cris Carter or Tim Brown are better than him (and both are a reach). Moss is legitimately top-5 all time.

One-dimensional or not.

He's on the down slope of his career and he will have to learn to run routes or add another dimension to his game to continue to be a threat.

But there are few others I would take in their primes.

 

[Cy/MiG]

Only Rice and perhaps Cris Carter or Tim Brown are better than him (and both are a reach). Moss is legitimately top-5 all time.

Boy was I wrong. So wrong I had to quote myself!

Just looked it up and here are the per year averages (YDs/TD) of some of the better WR's the league has known:

Moss: 1205 & 14
Irvin: ~1000 & 5
Rice: 1090 & 9
Largent: 934 & 7
Harrison: 1120 & 9
Holt: 1216 & 6
Brown: 878 & 5
Carter: 868 & 8
Bruce: 950 & 5
Owens: 1067 & 10

So Really, based on stats, only Holt Compares. We all know Rice is best, Harrison is in the discussion of top 5-10, probably Owens. But Moss is probably legitimately #2.

 

[primetime]

Yeah, it is kind of funny we're talking about Rod Woodson vs Deion Sanders in a Randy Moss thread...lol

But folks, let's be real. To those who actually study the game of football, honestly, when was the last time you've seen Randy Moss take a 2 yard hitch, and turn it into 60 yards? Teams WILL give up short stuff to Moss. They do not fear Moss catching slants, hitches, hooks, curls, 10 yard hooks, etc. They fear the deep ball. That's where Randy's reputation lies. You can't call him one of the greatest receivers because he is only deadly on ONE ROUTE.

Look at the others. Rice can beat you deep, but slant routes was his forte. Irvin was a big receiver and he could also beat you on a 3 yard catch. For all these stats you throw out on Moss, what is his YAC? You can't call someone a great receiver if he can only beat you on one route. Torry Holt could kill you on every route. Terrell Owens can beat you on any route. Jerry Rice, Tim Brown, Marvin Harrison, Isaac Bruce, and Chris Carter ran crisp routes and could beat you on any of them. Randy doesn't run routes. He is not a technically sound receiver.

That's why Chad Ochocinco is better than Moss. Chad knows how to run a crisp route. Moss? Not even close. His route running is average. He just goes deep and catches deep passes. No one is better at it than Moss, but that is all. Why do you folks continue to hype a guy who really is.....overrated as a wide receiver? That's why Moss disappears in games. If you take away the deep ball, then what? Not one of you can tell me how Moss is good at other routes can you?

 

[FlockOfSeagulls]

Randy Moss is most definately one of the biggest deep ball threats in the history of the NFL .

But let me also show you some career stats that disprove him ONLY being a deep threat.

In 12 NFL seasons only 1 TIME has he had 10 or more catches of 40 yds or over in a single season and that was his rookie season

Randy Moss HAS NEVER averaged 20 yds per catch in a season. his career ave. is 15.6 yds per catch . Michael Irvin s career yds per catch is 15.9 . Jerry Rices career yds per catch is 14.8 .

Randy Moss has 926 career catches of which ONLY 76 are 40 yds or longer.

 

[primetime]

Let's face reality. When we see Moss play, he only standouts on one route. I like how people try to bring up his stats. Watch the film. Moss runs very lazy routes. Keep it simple. Can any of you say Moss runs disciplined routes? Can anyone tell me what his YAC stats are? A true great WR can beat a defender and make a spectacular play on one route.

How about this? Why do people consider Moss a great receiver? I know you're going to point out stats, but when you watch him play, what does he do that makes you consider him a great receiver?

 

[FlockOfSeagulls]

Let's face reality. When we see Moss play, he only standouts on one route. I like how people try to bring up his stats. Watch the film. Moss runs very lazy routes. Keep it simple. Can any of you say Moss runs disciplined routes? Can anyone tell me what his YAC stats are? A true great WR can beat a defender and make a spectacular play on one route.

How about this? Why do people consider Moss a great receiver? I know you're going to point out stats, but when you watch him play, what does he do that makes you consider him a great receiver?

are you really serious?

the stats DON`T LIE . The reason you dismiss his stats is because they totally disprove what you are trying to convey. Every team in NFL with a tall receiver has tried to copy Moss`s fade route to the corner of the endzone.

He can go the distance at anytime and on any route he runs . Other than for fantasy football I`m not a big Moss guy either; but the truth for over a decade he has been an elite receiver . And when he goes up for a jump ball, he is the best at it in the game

The guy is also VERY UNDERRATED as a downfield blocker.

isn`t it funny that a so called possesion wr like Irvin has better career yards per catch than the so called one dimensional deep ball only wr.

 

[primetime]

C'mon Flock, time to start answering the question. WHEN have you seen Moss beat someone on ANY route? Moss has got to be one of the laziest route runners of all time. I'm sure you've heard the criticism of Moss. "He doesn't give it his all." You can see it in the films. He DOES NOT RUN GOOD ROUTES. I dismiss his stats because he got most of it with big plays. A streak up the sideline. There are times when Moss catches 11 balls in a game. But sometimes, those 11 catches mean nothing because he did not impact the game. When Moss impacts a game, it is because of a big play. If Moss catches 11 balls, most of the time he is running short routes. I notice that NO ONE talks about his YAC yards. Why? Because he sucks when it comes to YAC. Only when he makes a spectacular catch on a bomb does he ever get YAC yards.

Like you said, he is the best in the game at jump balls. What route is that? Either a 9 route, or a fade. He does not strike fear in DBs when it comes to other routes. Your typical DB would LOVE Moss to run a 1 route, or a 2 route, or 3 through 8 routes. But, they fear him when it comes to the deep ball or fade routes. That is his only asset. Which is what I will give him.

And yeah, it is funny that Irvin has better stats. BUT, Michael Irvin is a polished receiver. Moss is just an athlete who can go for the deep ball. He shouldn't even be called a Wide Receiver. His lazy route running insults the true greats.

 

[Cy/MiG]

How many rings does Ochocinco have?

How about years with playoff teams?

Or even years with WINNING RECORD teams?

Moss does more (or has done more in the past) to open up offenses and make defenses scheme around him than just about any WR in the history of the game.

Is he a crisp route runner? No, not really. But most WR's are 'one dimensional'. Like TO---he's a possession guy and little else.

But it doesn't really matter.

Moss makes teams better and it's no coincidence that the two highest scoring Offenses of ALL TIME had him as thier primary threat.

 

[primetime]

The sad thing is, people just don't understand what a true wide receiver is. "Oh, he puts up big numbers!". It's more than that. Funny how you speak of rings for Chad. How many does Randy have? Same amount as Chad.... your point is what?

As for scheming against him. Notice in the Super Bowl, Moss was a non factor. He got a TD, but the DB slipped. Otherwise where was this great receiver? Jerry Rice never disappeared in a Super Bowl. Michael Irvin never disappeared in a Super Bowl. Moss did. That same year, the Ravens made Moss disappear as well. Put a safety over top and Moss is your average receiver. It really is that simple....

You say most WRs are "one dimensional". EXACTLY my point. What makes Moss special? He's just like your average receiver. But to be called the greatest, he can't be one dimensional. Rice can beat you on any route and he ran routes better than anyone. Irvin, Brown, Owens, Holt, and Bruce could all beat you deep, but they could also beat you on ANY ROUTE. They were not one dimensional.

Funny, no one can ever say they saw Randy Moss dominate at any route. Because he hasn't. Which goes back to my original point. He is one dimensional. None of you people can deny that. Nice try though.... Moss is not one of the greatest receivers of all time..... He is one of the greatest athletes. That's it.

 

[10 armed tkler]

Rod Woodson vs. Deion Sanders


Pro Bowl appearances= Sanders 8 ; Woodson 11

career interceptions = Sanders 53 ; Woodson 71

Int`s returned for TDS = Sanders 9 ; Woodson 12 . 12 ints returned for TD`s is the NFL record

Sanders was 1994 NFL defensive player of the year . Woodson was 1993 NFL defensive player of the year .

Career tackles = Sanders 513 ; Woodson 1,163

Career sacks = Sanders 1 ; Woodson 13.5

Deion Sanders was on the 1990`s all-decade team . Rod Woodson was on 1990`s all-decade team .

Rod Woodson was member of NFL 75th Anniversary All-time team

That is a very unfair comparison with tackling. He was a Safety most of his career.

 

[FlockOfSeagulls]

That is a very unfair comparison with tackling. He was a Safety most of his career.

sorry to disappoint you but the majority of his career he played CB.

 

[FlockOfSeagulls]

How many rings does Ochocinco have?

How about years with playoff teams?

Or even years with WINNING RECORD teams?

Moss does more (or has done more in the past) to open up offenses and make defenses scheme around him than just about any WR in the history of the game.

Is he a crisp route runner? No, not really. But most WR's are 'one dimensional'. Like TO---he's a possession guy and little else.

But it doesn't really matter.

Moss makes teams better and it's no coincidence that the two highest scoring Offenses of ALL TIME had him as thier primary threat.

we are beating the dead horse. We have given proof through statistical data that Moss was much more than a one trick pony and is one of all-time bests.

Prime has given us the ''coulda, shoulda and woulda`s'' which means he has no real evidence to back his opinions. BOTTOM LINE, we get it Prime; you don`t like Randy Moss. When Moss is giving his acceptance speech to the Hall of Fame I am sure he won`t mention Prime as one of the people he would like to thank.

 

[FlockOfSeagulls]

C'mon Flock, time to start answering the question. WHEN have you seen Moss beat someone on ANY route? Moss has got to be one of the laziest route runners of all time. I'm sure you've heard the criticism of Moss. "He doesn't give it his all." You can see it in the films. He DOES NOT RUN GOOD ROUTES. I dismiss his stats because he got most of it with big plays. A streak up the sideline. There are times when Moss catches 11 balls in a game. But sometimes, those 11 catches mean nothing because he did not impact the game. When Moss impacts a game, it is because of a big play. If Moss catches 11 balls, most of the time he is running short routes. I notice that NO ONE talks about his YAC yards. Why? Because he sucks when it comes to YAC. Only when he makes a spectacular catch on a bomb does he ever get YAC yards.

Like you said, he is the best in the game at jump balls. What route is that? Either a 9 route, or a fade. He does not strike fear in DBs when it comes to other routes. Your typical DB would LOVE Moss to run a 1 route, or a 2 route, or 3 through 8 routes. But, they fear him when it comes to the deep ball or fade routes. That is his only asset. Which is what I will give him.

And yeah, it is funny that Irvin has better stats. BUT, Michael Irvin is a polished receiver. Moss is just an athlete who can go for the deep ball. He shouldn't even be called a Wide Receiver. His lazy route running insults the true greats.

the jump ball route is the one where he goes up in the endzone and catches TD`S. How dare Moss to something SO GHASTLY as to use his natural ability to score TD`S for his own team.

 

[FootballGuy]

As a true fan of the game but also a die hard Patriots fan, I can honestly say that Moss is indeed one-dimensional. A specialist if you will. Yeah, his best route is the "9" or fade but he's RIDICULOUSLY good at that one route. Maybe even the best ever?

As a defense, you can certainly say "No, Moss won't be catching any deep balls today" and play with the safety over the top. However, that means you're devoting a lot of resources to one guy. This is the 2nd half of Moss' true value and since most people aren't true fans of the game, they miss this.

Am I saying Moss is in the same league as Irvin, Rice, Wayne, Fitzgerald, or Andre Johnson? No way. But Moss doesn't belong in the 2nd tier of WR's either. He's better than that. He's sort of in between the all-time greats and the greats.

Moss is probably the best at what he does but he really can only do one thing well and that is run deep/stretch defenses. On all other routes, he is average. No better, no worse.

 

[Knox The Hatter]

I could think of quite a few WRs I'd rather have than Randy Moss.