How deviant is power exchange, really?

[LD_Tickler]

I don't claim to be speaking for all male lers, but for me and those like me, tickle torture is just the preferred expression of sexual dominance and power (in other words, the preferred way to 'top,' as I understand it).

Tickling as a way to do this is pretty deviant, yes. But how deviant, really, is the power relationship it represents? A lot of feminist literature that I've read implies that most men like sex as an expression of control, to take power. That's true of me, but I always thought that was pretty deviant.

Then I think back to my sexual experiences, and every girl I've slept with or fooled around with seemed to really buy into the whole, "aggressive male in control" feeling, if not overtly then at least as an underpinning. But, that could just be a result of me obviously favouring it and the girls just going along with it for my sake.

So really, how deviant is the male desire to "top" or "dominate" or what have you?

I'm not sure how female lers play into this question, but feel free to bring that subject into the discussion.

 

[RavenMoon]

Deviancy is a matter of perception. For some one who is very dominant in their life and highly sexual as well as openly sexual, dominance in terms of D/s or tickling may not seem very deviant, while a male who is quieter and seemingly "proper" this may be a huge deviancy.

From my view point, I agree that it is typically accepted for the male to be the dominant, the aggressor. When you speak in terms of "normal" (I loath that word, but you know what I mean) sexual behavior, it is generally accepted for the male to take the lead. Many vanilla women I speak to get highly excited by a male being aggressive in bed. For them, this is considered normal. Once you toss in something out of the norm, like spanking or erotic tickling, you will find many will see that as kinky and moderately deviant. But I think the degree of viewed deviancy depends upon the individuals sexual history. The more vanilla, the more kink that deviancy encompasses.

Does that make sense? In my mind it does, but I know I am in a huge off day today!

Very good mind poker!

 

[LD_Tickler]

You bring up a good point, I should clarify what I mean by deviant. I don't mean behaviour that deviates from a given person's typical behaviour, I mean deviant across the population. As in, departed from the most common or typical.

The general trend of men being in control and women being more passive in bed I'm not sure helps us find any answers. That might just be a result of constructed gender roles. Most vanillas I know report that the guy takes 'the lead' in bed. For them, though, it's just standard operating procedure, it doesn't have anything to do with power-play, giving up or taking control. Whereas, for me, and other male 'tops' (I guess) it's all about the kinkier, 'darker' domination and power aspect, rather than just traditional roles.

Know what I mean?

 

[RavenMoon]

Aw, gotcha! Like I had said, today is an off day big time for me! LOL!

Reconsidering what you had initially stated as well as clarified, I understand what you mean. And in that light, I agree. I think that when you consider the elements of why people, male or female, dominate such as the need for the power exchange and utter control over another person, then it would be considered quite deviant in the general public's view. I think a lot of that comes down to the general public having a misconception of activities involving such things.

It will be interesting to see others' views, especially from your target of the male 'lers.

 

[LD_Tickler]

Yeah, I hope this discussion picks up beyond just you and me 😉

I mean, look at the practice of rape, for example. It's only curtailed (and even then, only partly) in places/times where women's socio-political capabilities are high. Does the frequency of rape around the world tell us anything about power and control in male sexuality?

 

[RavenMoon]

That is actually a great example. Rape is, in the majority of cases, not about sex. It is about exerting power and control over someone seen as inferior and weaker than they. I think, too, that it is primarily committed by males speaks volumes towards the tie of sex and that power manipulation in males.

In my experience in BDSM, the majority of people I have discussed the nuances of orchestrating rape fantasies have involved a female "victim" and male "violator". I can not recall a single time it was switched. The taboo involved in rape is what leads these desires into being. And that is why that form of orchestrated power exchange is not just one of the hardest to carry through, but also viewed as one of the most deviant.

 

[Redmage]

Power exchange - that is, the willing participation in a social interaction in which one person has more power than another - is a fundamental part of human society. Very few of us get through a day without doing it at least once.

Doing it in a sexual context is less common, but still pretty darn common. Anyone who has ever wrestled with a partner before or during sex has done it.

 

[LD_Tickler]

Power exchange - that is, the willing participation in a social interaction in which one person has more power than another - is a fundamental part of human society. Very few of us get through a day without doing it at least once.

Doing it in a sexual context is less common, but still pretty darn common. Anyone who has ever wrestled with a partner before or during sex has done it.

So then would you say that people who engage in BDSM and other overt types of power exchange are exploring an extreme, rather than something qualitatively different?

 

[sasaxrah]

Power exchange - that is, the willing participation in a social interaction in which one person has more power than another - is a fundamental part of human society. Very few of us get through a day without doing it at least once.

Yup, this.

 

[Redmage]

So then would you say that people who engage in BDSM and other overt types of power exchange are exploring an extreme, rather than something qualitatively different?

I wouldn't draw quite that sharp a line. Some kink isn't very extreme at all. I'd say that the main difference between kinky and non-kinky power exchange is that in BDSM it is done mindfully, with full awareness of the issues involved. Most everyday power exchange is done almost accidentally, and many people doing it either don't notice it or resent it, but believe that they have no choice.

 

[LD_Tickler]

I wouldn't draw quite that sharp a line. Some kink isn't very extreme at all. I'd say that the main difference between kinky and non-kinky power exchange is that in BDSM it is done mindfully, with full awareness of the issues involved. Most everyday power exchange is done almost accidentally, and many people doing it either don't notice it or resent it, but believe that they have no choice.

Fair enough.

But what we're discussing here is the relationship between power exchange in sex versus power exchange in everyday interactions. In that sense, the former is not especially deviant merely, as you say, done mindfully.

My real query is: to what extent is mindful, sexual power exchange deviated from common, typical sexual acts (aside from the fact that it is mindful)? Or put another way, how common is power exchange as a sexual underpinning, mindful or not?

 

[Strider]

Or put another way, how common is power exchange as a sexual underpinning, mindful or not?

Pretty damn common, in my experience. Even by those who don't consciously think about it in those terms. I'd wager that even the most vanilla couple on earth has probably incorporated handcuffs or a mild spanking at least once.

 

[RavenMoon]

I think I don't look at it the same because I don't simply engage in the lighter, more common side of BDSM and power exchange as it really isn't completely satisfying to me. I don't view those little things that the 'nillas do as being active power exchange. I see them as being experimentations on the threshold of kinks, but that is because I am most at home playing on the edge. Even being aware of the egocentric nature of the view, it is still tough to step away from it in my evaluation of the wider scope.

I think that is why you are going to have a large variance in responses. Its been interesting to see the responses from others finally come in.