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In God We Trust
- Thread starter njjen3953
- Start date
Alex Warfield
TMF Master
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Hey Ven, the dude next to the cop looks like you!
Haltickling
2nd Level Green Feather
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Shame on you! My hair is still full and rapidly growing! 
😀
😀
GuitarPeteTklr
TMF Regular
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That's Okay, Jen...
As most of you in this forum know, I don't get mad at Jen for these remarks. I simply break out my keenest tickling skills and GET EVEN! Muhahahaha! 
😱 
*GuitarPeteTklr shreds his way back into tickling oblivion with plans for a par-TICK-u-larly merciless session of tickling in mind for his beloved Jen*
As most of you in this forum know, I don't get mad at Jen for these remarks. I simply break out my keenest tickling skills and GET EVEN! Muhahahaha!
😱 *GuitarPeteTklr shreds his way back into tickling oblivion with plans for a par-TICK-u-larly merciless session of tickling in mind for his beloved Jen*
BellaRisa
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Dumb guy but just cause
Hi folks,
This issue has given me pause for thought, glad you started a thread . As a non-religious person I kinda do feel that none of the god-related phrases are needed in the various state and government speeches, events, songs, yadda yadda. One can be certainly be patriotic without being religious. While I do think that the guy who's suing is an ultra-maroon and a doofus, I would sign any petition or what-have-you that supported the basic idea behind his stance. Separation of church and state is not a bad thing, and I don't think religion belongs in public schools-however subtley.
As for the money, I wish it read 'In America We Trust'-that's a motto we could all stand behind, whether you worship Krishna, Vishnu or no one at all
Bella
😎
Hi folks,
This issue has given me pause for thought, glad you started a thread . As a non-religious person I kinda do feel that none of the god-related phrases are needed in the various state and government speeches, events, songs, yadda yadda. One can be certainly be patriotic without being religious. While I do think that the guy who's suing is an ultra-maroon and a doofus, I would sign any petition or what-have-you that supported the basic idea behind his stance. Separation of church and state is not a bad thing, and I don't think religion belongs in public schools-however subtley.
As for the money, I wish it read 'In America We Trust'-that's a motto we could all stand behind, whether you worship Krishna, Vishnu or no one at all
Bella
😎
D
Deleted member 2452
Guest
haven't met any of you yet
but i hope too soon. till then i'll just use this pic as a guide, lol.
i'm actually against organised religion, and not even sure there is a god. but the founding fathers put in god we trust on our currancy, i'll respect their wishes and tear up any patition to have in god we trust removed.
as for the doofus. the appelate court ruling will be overturned, and he'll be the heel of the year. but i'll admit, i've been in school when they left out "under god". and if the supreme court said that it was a religous intrusion then take those two words out. after all, eisenhower put those two words in back in the fifties to piss off the commies.
steve
but i hope too soon. till then i'll just use this pic as a guide, lol.
i'm actually against organised religion, and not even sure there is a god. but the founding fathers put in god we trust on our currancy, i'll respect their wishes and tear up any patition to have in god we trust removed.
as for the doofus. the appelate court ruling will be overturned, and he'll be the heel of the year. but i'll admit, i've been in school when they left out "under god". and if the supreme court said that it was a religous intrusion then take those two words out. after all, eisenhower put those two words in back in the fifties to piss off the commies.
steve
BellaRisa
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History Shmistory, Massuh
"but the founding fathers put in god we trust on our currancy, i'll respect their wishes and tear up any patition to have in god we trust removed."
With all due respect, Steve, I have serious issue with keeping ideas alive simply because they're part of history. If we kept all the notions the Founding Fathers had, my family still wouldn't be allowed to vote, I would never have been able to marry my hubby, and I would be a slave right now-instead of only on Tuesday nights and at certain parties <g>. As life goes on our needs as individuals and as a country change, and what once seemed right can be revealed to be right only for some, or just plain wrong. As we grow, we have to be open to evolving past what our forefathers thought-or do you still burn witches, use candles instead of electricity, and leeches instead of medicine? <g>
Bella
"but the founding fathers put in god we trust on our currancy, i'll respect their wishes and tear up any patition to have in god we trust removed."
With all due respect, Steve, I have serious issue with keeping ideas alive simply because they're part of history. If we kept all the notions the Founding Fathers had, my family still wouldn't be allowed to vote, I would never have been able to marry my hubby, and I would be a slave right now-instead of only on Tuesday nights and at certain parties <g>. As life goes on our needs as individuals and as a country change, and what once seemed right can be revealed to be right only for some, or just plain wrong. As we grow, we have to be open to evolving past what our forefathers thought-or do you still burn witches, use candles instead of electricity, and leeches instead of medicine? <g>
Bella
Shem the Penman
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It wasn't the Founding Fathers who put "In God We Trust" on the currency. That motto was used off and on from the Civil War up to the '50s, when it became standard on all currency (thanks to the same folks who gave us "under God" in the Pledge). Me, I rather prefer the older motto, "E Pluribus Unum" (from many, one).
maverick83
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Go, Bella!
And the voice of sanity speaks. What is tradition? Do something just because somebody did it before you? Isn't that the whole "If (insert name) jumps off a bridge..." thing? So lemme see if I got this right. When a kid does it, we call it stupidity. When we do it, it's called tradition.
And the voice of sanity speaks. What is tradition? Do something just because somebody did it before you? Isn't that the whole "If (insert name) jumps off a bridge..." thing? So lemme see if I got this right. When a kid does it, we call it stupidity. When we do it, it's called tradition.
D
Deleted member 2452
Guest
no bella i use electricity...
... and witches should never have been burned. slavery was bad, and should never have been practiced on this land. i liked the idea of a tickle slave though😀
.
i thought it was samuel chace that started the mint, and put the different currancies together, and the writing on them? hell wouldn't be the first time i was misinformed, lol.
but bella, the idea of historical perspective is important. slavery was ended, what if some people said aw hell thats an out dated idea, what's wronge with having permanent house help? or if some one said the 4th amendment is in the way, let's just barge in! no we must stick with the historical documents we have, they set us up above anarchy, and dictatorship.
steve
... and witches should never have been burned. slavery was bad, and should never have been practiced on this land. i liked the idea of a tickle slave though😀
.i thought it was samuel chace that started the mint, and put the different currancies together, and the writing on them? hell wouldn't be the first time i was misinformed, lol.
but bella, the idea of historical perspective is important. slavery was ended, what if some people said aw hell thats an out dated idea, what's wronge with having permanent house help? or if some one said the 4th amendment is in the way, let's just barge in! no we must stick with the historical documents we have, they set us up above anarchy, and dictatorship.
steve
Ticklish9's
2nd Level Red Feather
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God and the government...
The question of God being involved in the government is highly controversial. For one, America endorses freedom to practice religion of any nature and in any way one chooses (within reason, naturally). On the other hand...the existence of a Creator is difficult to doubt (I sense a new thread starting somewhere....) Additionally, human morality is hardly an instinctual thing - it must be taught. Basic psychology shows that human beings do not have an innate sense of morals... these morals are imposed from without. This begs the question...who taught the first morals? The evidence gathered by theologians and scientists alike point to the existence of a knowing, caring Creator. It may sound like I'm denying that Atheists have their own right to religion...I'm not (after all I used to be one). But more and more religion is becoming a matter of fact rather than opinion...where once religion covered everything from weather to the cosmos to afterlife, science systematically explained most of these phenomenon over time in a definite system of logic. Someday soon we may have to accept a Creator as another of these simple scientific truths, and then the seperation of church and state becomes seperation of truth and governance, and thus illogical. I predict very difficult times for this particular controversy ahead.
....sorry for rambling, I get lost easy...
The question of God being involved in the government is highly controversial. For one, America endorses freedom to practice religion of any nature and in any way one chooses (within reason, naturally). On the other hand...the existence of a Creator is difficult to doubt (I sense a new thread starting somewhere....) Additionally, human morality is hardly an instinctual thing - it must be taught. Basic psychology shows that human beings do not have an innate sense of morals... these morals are imposed from without. This begs the question...who taught the first morals? The evidence gathered by theologians and scientists alike point to the existence of a knowing, caring Creator. It may sound like I'm denying that Atheists have their own right to religion...I'm not (after all I used to be one). But more and more religion is becoming a matter of fact rather than opinion...where once religion covered everything from weather to the cosmos to afterlife, science systematically explained most of these phenomenon over time in a definite system of logic. Someday soon we may have to accept a Creator as another of these simple scientific truths, and then the seperation of church and state becomes seperation of truth and governance, and thus illogical. I predict very difficult times for this particular controversy ahead.
....sorry for rambling, I get lost easy...
maverick83
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Well, yes areen, but...
I think you may have missed Bella's point. (Or what I percieved as the point) The things you mentioned are still in place for reasons other than sake of tradition.
I think you may have missed Bella's point. (Or what I percieved as the point) The things you mentioned are still in place for reasons other than sake of tradition.
BellaRisa
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So change but don't actually...change?
Hi again Steve,
I'm really not sure what you're saying here. So it's fine to change things, as long as we don't change things? Please explain. I understand your notion that we're opening the door on heinous revisions as well as good ones, but that's the price we pay for living in a democracy. I'm not worried about losing my right to vote or the return of slavery in America, and it's because I have true faith in my fellow Americans *not* to jump off bridges simply because their forefathers did.
I think you understand my POV, Maverick. I'm all for honoring and respecting our historical documents. By all means, put them in museums on velvet pillows with big shiny lights over them. Have parades. And always, always remember those who fought so bravely for them and sacrificed so much. But don't be afraid to alter how we do things as time marches on. It's not disrespecting our ancestors to improve on their starting points-which is what their words and thoughts were, for all generations to come. Stepping stones to help form our nation, to be built upon by future governing bodies over time. Hell, even my adult group revises the by-laws periodically, I think the country deserves at least similar consideration 😎
Bella
areenactor said:
Hi again Steve,
I'm really not sure what you're saying here. So it's fine to change things, as long as we don't change things? Please explain. I understand your notion that we're opening the door on heinous revisions as well as good ones, but that's the price we pay for living in a democracy. I'm not worried about losing my right to vote or the return of slavery in America, and it's because I have true faith in my fellow Americans *not* to jump off bridges simply because their forefathers did.
I think you understand my POV, Maverick. I'm all for honoring and respecting our historical documents. By all means, put them in museums on velvet pillows with big shiny lights over them. Have parades. And always, always remember those who fought so bravely for them and sacrificed so much. But don't be afraid to alter how we do things as time marches on. It's not disrespecting our ancestors to improve on their starting points-which is what their words and thoughts were, for all generations to come. Stepping stones to help form our nation, to be built upon by future governing bodies over time. Hell, even my adult group revises the by-laws periodically, I think the country deserves at least similar consideration 😎
Bella
D
Deleted member 2452
Guest
hi back attcha bella, and let's not for get maverick, lol
yes bella, i did get your point.
but i still think it's a flawed notion to start tinkering with out
living documents.
here in illinois in 1970, there was a move to take out all the silly old out dated laws, and revise the state consitution. things like you can't take your pig into a barber shop, etc.
my mother was for it, my father very against. i was 14 and thought this is a good idea. you know when a 14 year old likes somrthing it's trouble!
well they held the con-con (constitutional convention) and change everything! thats the way the balot issue was put, so that the attendies could change any parts deemed deeding change. well it was roundly criticised, almost no one liked it, but nothing could be done.
you have to be carefull when you start changing things, in a document that affects your daily life. how do you know the people doing the changing aren't morons, like here in illinois!
i'll end with the old line "the road to hell is paved with good intentions".
steve
yes bella, i did get your point.
but i still think it's a flawed notion to start tinkering with out
living documents.
here in illinois in 1970, there was a move to take out all the silly old out dated laws, and revise the state consitution. things like you can't take your pig into a barber shop, etc.
my mother was for it, my father very against. i was 14 and thought this is a good idea. you know when a 14 year old likes somrthing it's trouble!
well they held the con-con (constitutional convention) and change everything! thats the way the balot issue was put, so that the attendies could change any parts deemed deeding change. well it was roundly criticised, almost no one liked it, but nothing could be done.
you have to be carefull when you start changing things, in a document that affects your daily life. how do you know the people doing the changing aren't morons, like here in illinois!
i'll end with the old line "the road to hell is paved with good intentions".
steve
BellaRisa
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Re: hi back attcha bella, and let's not for get maverick, lol
Should you discover that those in power are 'morons', you get them da hell out of office. We can't be afraid to fight for what we believe in because we don't trust those in power-especially since WE put them in power. That's why we have elected officials instead of a monarchy.
Um, isn't that why this country was founded?
I definitely agree that we have to be careful about what we change, but being careful and just not doing it are two different things. I'm certainly not saying throw out everything willy-nilly, but neither should people remain unhappy with the statis-quo because they fear the 'what if's'. I can't imagine what my life would be like if my elders had listened to many of their fellow African Americans, who truly felt there was no reason to try and change their present situation and that any attempts would end in disaster. I'm under five feet tall, I *hate* riding in the back of the bus.
Forgive me if I seem overly passionate, but I have several types of minority status going at the same time-from my race to my sex to my BDSM and other alternative activities. I get serious about my freedoms, about fixing the laws and notions that prevent me from living the way I choose, about others imposing their beliefs on my life.
Thank goodness those who wrote the 'living document', those who fought for freedom for all Americans at that time and since, didn't chicken out because "it's a flawed notion to start tinkering", as you put it 😎
I'll end with "the greatest journey begins with a single step."
Bella
areenactor said:
Should you discover that those in power are 'morons', you get them da hell out of office. We can't be afraid to fight for what we believe in because we don't trust those in power-especially since WE put them in power. That's why we have elected officials instead of a monarchy.
Um, isn't that why this country was founded?
I definitely agree that we have to be careful about what we change, but being careful and just not doing it are two different things. I'm certainly not saying throw out everything willy-nilly, but neither should people remain unhappy with the statis-quo because they fear the 'what if's'. I can't imagine what my life would be like if my elders had listened to many of their fellow African Americans, who truly felt there was no reason to try and change their present situation and that any attempts would end in disaster. I'm under five feet tall, I *hate* riding in the back of the bus.
Forgive me if I seem overly passionate, but I have several types of minority status going at the same time-from my race to my sex to my BDSM and other alternative activities. I get serious about my freedoms, about fixing the laws and notions that prevent me from living the way I choose, about others imposing their beliefs on my life.
Thank goodness those who wrote the 'living document', those who fought for freedom for all Americans at that time and since, didn't chicken out because "it's a flawed notion to start tinkering", as you put it 😎
I'll end with "the greatest journey begins with a single step."
Bella
Ticklish9's
2nd Level Red Feather
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Minorities...
Q: What do Michael Jordan, Tiger Woods, Halle Berry, Colin Powell, Will Smith, and Martin Luther King, Jr., have in common?
A: They're all Americans.
🙂 No matter who or what you are, Americans are Americans on the final count. And it's because of this that we've created in 200 years what no other nation in the world has come close to, despite thousands of years of trying. We have a unique national spirit. Yes, I may be Irish and Native American by descent, and my buddy might be African American, and his buddy might have more backgrounds than my dog, but we all hold the same basic premises - that each of us has certain inalienable rights. This is a truly unique mentality on the national level. I'm damn proud of us. 🙂
Q: What do Michael Jordan, Tiger Woods, Halle Berry, Colin Powell, Will Smith, and Martin Luther King, Jr., have in common?
A: They're all Americans.
🙂 No matter who or what you are, Americans are Americans on the final count. And it's because of this that we've created in 200 years what no other nation in the world has come close to, despite thousands of years of trying. We have a unique national spirit. Yes, I may be Irish and Native American by descent, and my buddy might be African American, and his buddy might have more backgrounds than my dog, but we all hold the same basic premises - that each of us has certain inalienable rights. This is a truly unique mentality on the national level. I'm damn proud of us. 🙂
got an email
I'm not Dennis miller's biggest fan,but this is good,regarding the judges who declared the under God phrase unconstitutional.
"So,your Honor,the Pledge is unconstitutional because it says 'under God'?Guess that means when you were sworn in with your hand on a Bible,and at the end of your oath repeated,'So Help Me God',that makes your job unconstitutional,therefore you have no job,which means your ruling doesn't mean shit".
I'm not Dennis miller's biggest fan,but this is good,regarding the judges who declared the under God phrase unconstitutional.
"So,your Honor,the Pledge is unconstitutional because it says 'under God'?Guess that means when you were sworn in with your hand on a Bible,and at the end of your oath repeated,'So Help Me God',that makes your job unconstitutional,therefore you have no job,which means your ruling doesn't mean shit".
