Lou Panther & TBW Comics needs to be BANNED from the community

[zigster]

I want to start off by apologizing that my first post to the TMF is
a rant/complaint. I never have much to contribute and try to support the community by buying many of the fine products and services they
provide. In a small way I hope that my purchases of videos...e-comics and the like help keep the creators in business to produce more.
I know its hard to create new stuff for the community and we are all lucky when people do so. However, I don't believe it gives creators free license to run over customers and show not one ounce of responsability. Normally, I would keep this between the vendor and myself..but he refuses to answer asny e-mails. It is this reason I am bringing my complaint to this board.

Lou Panther..the creator of TBW comics:
http://www.tbwcomics.com/
has been around for a few years and I have always liked his work.
Most of you are pretty familiar with his 'Caroline' series. Last
year he started a pay site which had a rocky run. He rarely met his deadlines and do to the nature of his paysite plan...if he did not meet the deadline...his customers were screwed and had to
re-subscribe. This can be referenced in the TMF forum. A number of his subscribers complained in here a year ago about his practices
as well as his complete lack of response to multiple e-mails.
He eventually came forward and claimed he would be moving to a pay per story plan but by then he folded his site.

A few months ago, he began reopening his site and kept touting the grand opening date..which never materialized (another example of his inability to meet deadlines)Eventually, he did open about two months after he announced he would and said he was scrapping the monthly pay site and going for an Adult Check site (Adult Check is a verification
system that many low end porn sites use. The Adult Check passcode you
buy...for $19.95...can be used to enter thousands of participating sites)

His site was now up and running and offering many of his old work plus some new work with more to come. I purchased an Adult Check ID
and entered his site. All his URLS and links were bad. I couldn't see a thing. No problem, its a new site...its bound to have bugs. I e-mail him about it and waited. I get no response, but a few days later I see he has changed his site once again. He has scrapped the Adult Check and gone totally free. I was upset. I paid good money to access his site and only a few short days later everyone and his sister can get it for free. I e-mailed him and expressed my displeasure.

I told him I did not think it was fair that he launch a site without having a clear plan and that I didn't mind supporting his site monetarily but wanted to get what I paid for. I requested that he either refund me or send me some of the art that was inaccesible. This is art he created for his 'members' only section when he had intended to have a full fledged pay site. I told him I would not share it, but if he could not give me a refund(I have no use for an Adult Check passcode) I was owed something for what I paid. He NEVER responded. I e-mailed him multiple times and he continues not to respond. I know I am not the only one. I have spoken to others and they should come foward to add to this complaint.

Lou Panther is a very poor businessman. He keeps trying to turn a profit off his work...which is fine...but does not assume the responsability that comes with being IN BUSINESS. It is more than likely I will not see my $20 and it isnt a great deal of money.
However, I don't like getting railroaded and I don't intend to just walk away and let others get railroaded. If Lou panther is foolish enough to initiate ANOTHER pay service with his site...walk away...boycott it... remove his banner from your links section...whatever it takes to put the message out there that you won't tolerate people doing whatever they please
and not having to give a damn! Its obvious he doesn't because he is a repeat offender and did not learn his lesson from last year when he
was practicing bad business back then. Guys like this give the rest of the community a bad wrap.
zigster

 

[jordan]

I completly agree with what you said. And I think he has some explaining to do. He is either spaced out at how he wants to run a site or like you said doesn't give a damn.

 

[10 armed tkler]

no my friend your wrong. he should not get banned. jsut make corrections. i too have bin around. well not a member. if i signed up like 3 years ago.......enough of that. he should not ge banned though, he just shouln't make us pay or/and make link corrections.

 

[zigster]

If he refunded my money or compensated me...I wouldn't be here. His whole additude is strictly ignore and they will go away. This is not his first time doing this either. He screwed a number of people out
of $$$ with his pay plan last year. You pay the money for a month subscription and he does a story or two. Almost everytime...he never finished the story and you had to buy yet another month. Which wouldn't have been so bad if the following month had another tickling story...but it didnt...it had a wrestling one with NO tickling. One month he actually charged and had no update at all. Do you see why I
and others have a problem with this guy. He is a repeat offender and
he won't even come foward or reply to e-mails. People like that should not be participating in this community.

 

[tarr2k]

I understand where you're coming from because I used to be a member of his site too. But what he did with his site shouldn't have a bearing on his membership here unless he broke the law.

Look, he tried running it as a business and failed. He seems to have recognized that fact and given up trying to make money off his art. Now he's giving it away for free. I know you're upset because you paid for an Adult Check password that you don't need to access the site any more. All the stuff I was able to get when I subscribed is now up for free too. I know it doesn't seem it, but I don't think he's deliberately trying to screw anybody.

At best you can say he made some bad choices; at worst that he's a bumbling idiot. But neither of those seems grounds to me to ban someone who is offering free material to the community.

 

[laughinggaszone]

I believe that fraud IS breaking the law. He may not have intended to defraud, but failure to make restitution and avoiding customers
whose money he has taken sound like fraud to me. He may very well be offering it for free..now...but how many times does he get a "get out of jail free card" from customers. If this was his first time...fine...but it isn't. He has done this before. He may be a bumbling idiot...but he is also avoiding customers whose money he has taken. Idiocy does excuse that. I'm sorry, but you cannot excuse people just because they are offering freebies and gifts to the community. The mobster John Gotti did that and he was still a crook.

 

[tarr2k]

If you truly believe he committed fraud, then file charges. That will most definitely remove him from the community and can help get restitution. See it through to the end. And if he's guilty I will be at the front of the line demanding his removal.

But if it's not fraud, but just a case of dissatisfied customers (which I reiterate I fall amongst), then that's not a crime. And if all he's done is pissed off his customers I don't see why he should be banned from the community when it seems that he's trying to make up for it.

 

[laughinggaszone]

Its MY intention to take some action..but I seriously doubt much will
come of it. However, I find your fence riding additude a bit anoying.
Your a 'disgruntled' customer only willing to take action if someone else like zigster gets the ball rolling? Very nice...customers like yourself are the reason idiots like Panther come back again and again. We wanted to start a pay site, but opted NOT to for the very same reason panther should...an inability to provide service on par with what customers should expect from a pay site do to other time constraining commitments. Panther has also been ignoring our e-mails and we find that very annoying.

 

[zigster]

Thanks Laughinggaszone, more people need to speak up. I agree, not much will come out of trying to bring charges against him, but we can at least speak up about what kind of business practices he employs.
Laughinggaszone is right Tarr2k...if you were disgruntled then you should have spoken up. I'm not saying this wouldn't have happened, but the more voices raised the less likely he would try it again.

 

[tarr2k]

Let me put this simply for you: I subscribed, I didn't like his service, I left. I was disgruntled. I felt the same way about AOL. I don't think he committed fraud against me and if he goes to trial I won't attempt to seek damages with any other plaintiffs. I bought something that in the end I didn't think was worth the value, but don't feel I was defrauded.
Your accusation is unjustified and insulting. I am not sitting on the fence; I have stated my opinion, but am willing to change it if you can show it's wrong. Show me he's guilty of fraud and I'll change my mind. What I've seen so far, though, is just signs of unhappy customers, not that anyone was defrauded.
Now, can we try to discuss this without resorting to ad hominems?

 

[laughinggaszone]

Excuse me..but failure to deliver goods after charging for it and not issuing a refund or suitable compensation IS fraud. He may not have intended to defraud when he opened the site, but keeping money for services NOT rendered is illegal. He still has our money and is avoiding making restitution; that is fraud. Perhaps you have another definition.

 

[tarr2k]

Are you talking about the Adult Check thing zigster was referring to or something else? I am not trying to sound obtuse, but it sounds like he's upset because he bought the AC thing and now anyone can access it. Is it that tbwcomics updates were late, and did his agreement include a promise for monthly updates, or just site access? I just want to know that all the facts are clear before we try to ban someone, that's all. I'll admit that you're starting to change my opinion on this matter, but I'd like a little more information.

Here's a picture to keep this thread on topic:
http://breastworks.50megs.com/isard.jpg

 

[laughinggaszone]

I am speaking of the Adult Check. The other matter I am familiar with, but did not participate in. The Adult Check was purchased by me
and I imagine zigster and others for the express purpose of entering Panther's site. Even if Adult Check can be used elsewhere it was purchased for a specific site which Panther set up and advertised Adult Check on said site for said entry. Days later..not weeks or months (either of which might have given Panther more credability
as he could claim he dropped the service do to lack of customer
interest but provided at least some exclusive service to members) he switches to a free service and leaves a number of customers having paid for a service that is now free to the public. Switching service is not fraud; keeping our money is. If he refunds his customers or compensates them in a manner they agree to then he will not be commiting fraud. However he has not made attempts to do either and has not responded to any e-mails in several weeks. This is most definitely fraud on his part. Why he is doing it..I have no idea.
Maybe he doesn't have the money to issue the refunds. In any case
he has the money and has not rendered service...service being exclusive viewership of his art for a fee. It's not exclusive when anyone can have it for free. Does this clarify what I was saying in the above post?

 

[10 armed tkler]

do you really want to loose his work in the community!? yeah you have a point but, don't you think you are a little late with this. and if you can't contact him, ask one of the peolpe here to, i'am they can get a hold of him. talk to him first even though he hasn't answered yet, before doing all of this. i'am just saying don't do anything that would mess up stuf for other people.

 

[laughinggaszone]

Oh great...yeah..don't make waves...it might...'GASP'...involve you.
Give me a break. How self serving can you be? This guy screwed myself and others over and you want us to be quiet because you don't want anything ruined for YOU. If we never see another piece of Lou Panther art on the net..fine by me. I'm sure you feel different seeing how you obviously didn't get screwed over and are quite content to just sit there and soak up all the free stuff you can while we do get screwed. As for contacting him...its becomming apparent NO ONE can get ahold of the guy. He is not responding to e-mails.

 

[jordan]

His "work" isn't exactly the greatest... I wouldn't pay for it, I wouldn't pay for any art work done by amatures.

 

[tarr2k]

Well, from what I understand of Adult Check, he gets a certain amount of money from each person who signs up through his site (plus a subscription rate, but since he only had it up for a few days I doubt he saw a dime for that). In that case he didn't receive the entire amount to be able to refund it. I think he should refund whatever he did receive though, and should be banned until he does (if ever).

I don't think you'll ever be able to get him for fraud because the lawyer will say that you bought an Adult Check membership.

If people are stilling having problems accessing the pictures (since the links don't work) you can pick through the files by going here:
http://www.tbwcomics.com/TBWArchives/

 

[laughinggaszone]

Correction, all I and anyone else needs to do is prove why we purchased the Adult check pass. Adult Check can track my passcode and tell if I have used it on other Adult check participating sites. If I have not, then my claim of exclusively purchasing it for Panther's site is substatiated. In addition, Panther is resposible for ALL fees he collects and not just his percentage. Adult Check is not responsible for Pather's business practices. They merely offer a service which they have fullfilled. Panther can be held accountable for ALL fees since he is acting unilaterally in not supplying service for the fee charged.

 

[xxkinkyboixx]

well

all i have to say is zig and laughin gas are fully right...you really cant defend..you defend with most likely ..or probably...zig and laughing gas have the straight forward true facts...and if we do lose him...it really isnt anyones fault... he did do all those mistakes and well...he sould at least respond to the emails...but ya..thats all i have to say...i love the pics and the site..but ..as joradn said..not lik its top of the line..

 

[tarr2k]

*shrug* Well, we'll see what happens. If it gets to a court, please make a mention of it here, as I'd very much like to know how things turn out.

 

[bhlester]

The fine letter of the law

I really don't think you'd win this argument in court, and it would cost a little more than the $20 invested to pursue it. I understand the sour apples, because I've been screwed by several of the companies over the years. I think the only one that has never really screwed me over is TC Videos (Femfeet) [not trying to plug just being honest]. But getting someone banned from a community due to lack of business ethics not fully associated with the community is not quite right. The matter is in the past and doesn't have a lot of relevance on the present.

 

[zigster]

Re: The fine letter of the law

Five minutes ago was the past. Exactly how short an interval do you require to give a damn what goes on around you??? Panther screwed a bunch of us over and though I disagree with your assesment over
the legal bearing; I agree with you that not much is likely to happen. It is one reason why I brought my case to the TMF. This is the largest hub for the tickling community. Unlike you, I'm not content to put it in the past and walk away to let Panther do it again and he will do it again. He's done it before and no one did anything about it. A few grumbles and he went on his merry way. So, should I just say oh well and let the next guy deal with his crappy
business practices? Others who have posted to this thread are right. If we dont deal with the guy now someone will surely have to deal with him later. Maybe it will be you.

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

Hello, this topic has absolutely NOTHING to do with me and I hope I don't end up on someone's bad side, however...I looked at the said artist's artwork, and gentlemen, I must ask you a question....you actually PAID for this crap?! It looks like it was drawn and colored by a five year old or is some weird form of abstract art! ... ... !!!

I must say, with all due respect gentlemen, this is laugh out loud ridiculous! How did this come to be?! I mean.....how?! The art is horrible! Its unexcusable, and to charge money for such crappy content is more a crime than his having screwed you out of your money!

I'm not laughing at your misfortunes in this matter however. I've read every single post and looked at both positions users are taking on the arguement table.

I believe what he did was indeed fraud, and you should be compensated for your loss to the fullest degree possible. I also believe that measures should be taken to insure he cannot do this yet again to customers without getting busted.

However, I do not necessarily believe he should be banned or ostracized from this site, but rather alienated until he can either make good on the legal aspects of this situation, or until his artwork improves GREATLY in detail. Because seeing that artwork(if you want to call it that), and knowing you paid money for it is just so damn wrong.


-Damien


PS: To the artist in question, if you read this, I'm not passing judgement on you as a person, but rather stating my opinion on this matter. Thank you very much.

 

[10 armed tkler]

hey so what if i think lou panthers is one of the best. do i care what you think? no. you know what just forget it go ahead. i was never hear. bye, and good luck with your.......rh campain. bye

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

hey so what if i think lou panthers is one of the best. do i care what you think? no. you know what just forget it go ahead. i was never hear. bye, and good luck with your.......rh campain. bye

If that was directed completely at me, I must say some things.

1- If you think hes one of the best, your intitled to say that because its your opinion.

2- I couldn't possibly care that you don't care that I care. 😛

3- If you want me to forget it, don't worry, I will.

4- If you were never here, wouldn't it be a good idea to delete your post? Or is this some kind of space time continuem mishap?

5- If you did indeed read my post, you would have known this has nothing to do with me, and I am only sharing in the disgust of the manipulated.

6- Bye.