Mark McGwire fell far short of Hall of Fame

[the wiz]

Do you think he should be let in?

Updated: Jan. 9, 2007, 3:07 PM ET
Gwynn, Ripken elected to Hall of Fame
Associated Press



NEW YORK -- Mark McGwire fell far short in his first try for the Hall of Fame, picked by 23.5 percent of voters while Tony Gwynn and Cal Ripken Jr. easily gained baseball's highest honor.
2007 Hall of Fame Voting



Total ballots cast: A record 545 (including two blanks). Necessary for election: 409 votes. Minimum votes needed to remain on the ballot: 28.
Votes Pct.
Cal Ripken Jr. 537 98.5
Tony Gwynn 532 97.6
Rich Gossage 388 71.2
Jim Rice 346 63.5
Andre Dawson 309 56.7
Bert Blyleven 260 47.7
Lee Smith 217 39.8
Jack Morris 202 37.1
Mark McGwire 128 23.5
Tommy John 125 22.9
Steve Garvey 115 21.1
Dave Concepcion 74 13.6
Alan Trammell 73 13.4
Dave Parker 62 11.4
Don Mattingly 54 9.9
Dale Murphy 50 9.2
Harold Baines 29 5.3
Orel Hershiser 24 4.4
Albert Belle 19 3.5
Paul O'Neill 12 2.2
Bret Saberhagen 7 1.3
Jose Canseco 6 1.1
Tony Fernandez 4 0.7
Dante Bichette 3 0.6
Eric Davis 3 0.6
Bobby Bonilla 2 0.4
Ken Caminiti 2 0.4
Jay Buhner 1 0.2
Scott Brosius 0 0
Wally Joyner 0 0
Devon White 0 0
Bobby Witt 0 0
Tarnished by accusations of steroid use, McGwire appeared on 128 of a record 545 ballots in voting released Tuesday by the Baseball Writers' Association of America.
Ripken was picked by 537 voters and appeared on 98.53 percent of ballots to finish with the third-highest percentage behind Tom Seaver (98.84) and Nolan Ryan (98.79).
Gwynn received 532 votes for 97.6 percent, the seventh-highest ever.
"It's an unbelievable feeling to know that people think that what you did was worthy," Gwynn said during a conference call. "For me, it's kind of validation. The type of player that I was doesn't get a whole lot of credit in today's game."
Goose Gossage finished third with 388 votes, falling 21 shy of the necessary 409 for election. Jim Rice was fourth with 346, followed by Andre Dawson (309), Bert Blyleven (260), Lee Smith (217) and Jack Morris (202).
McGwire was ninth, followed by Tommy John (125) and Steve Garvey (115), who was in his final year of eligibility.
McGwire's dismal showing raises doubts about whether he will ever get elected -- players can appear on the BBWAA ballot for 15 years -- and whether the shadow of steroids will cost Barry Bonds, Sammy Sosa and Rafael Palmeiro places in Cooperstown.
"I think it's a big, dark cloud, obviously, that's hanging over the game," Gossage told ESPN after the announcement. "I really don't know what to think of this steroids era."
McGwire finished with 583 home runs, seventh on the career list, and hit 70 homers in 1998 to set the season record, a mark Bonds broke three years later.
"I think I would vote for him," Gwynn has said. "I think I would vote for a lot of those guys who are considered to have done it."
Ladewski on Mike & Mike
Paul Ladewski, a columnist for The Daily Southtown, wrote a piece Monday explaining why he submitted a blank ballot for this year's Baseball Hall of Fame voting. Ladewski says he has doubts about anyone who played during the Steroids Era. Cal Ripken Jr. and Tony Gwynn, who were elected for induction Tuesday on their first ballot, fell short of unanimous selection. Podcast

Jose Canseco, on the ballot for the first time, received six votes, well below the 5 percent threshold needed to stay on future ballots. In his book two years ago, Canseco accused McGwire and others of using steroids. The book's publication was quickly followed by a congressional hearing on steroids during which McGwire evaded questions, saying: "I'm not here to talk about the past."
Gwynn, who compiled 3,141 hits and a .338 batting average during his 20-year career with the San Diego Padres, said he was fidgety and nervous before he received the call from Jack O'Connell, the BBWAA secretary-treasurer.
"I broke down right away," he said. "My wife came over and put an arm around me."
Highest Pct. Of Votes All-Time
Year Percentage,
Votes Cast
Tom Seaver 1992 98.84,
425 of 430
Nolan Ryan 1999 98.79,
491 of 497
Cal Ripken Jr. 2007 98.53,
537 of 545
Ty Cobb 1936 98.23,
222 of 226
George Brett 1999 98.19,
488 of 497
Hank Aaron 1982 97.83,
406 of 415
Tony Gwynn 2007 97.61,
532 of 545
Ripken played in a major league-record 2,632 consecutive games to break Lou Gehrig's ironman mark of 2,130 and set a new standard for shortstops with 431 home runs and 3,184 hits for the Baltimore Orioles.
"I'm very proud of what the streak represents. Not that you were able to play in all those games, but that you showed up to play every single day," Ripken said last week.
Harold Baines, who received 29 votes, reached the 5 percent threshold. Bret Saberhagen got seven votes in his first appearance on the ballot and Ken Caminiti, who admitted using steroids during his career and died in 2004, received two.
Gwynn and Ripken raised to 43 the total of players elected in their first year of eligibility. That doesn't include Lou Gehrig (1939) and Roberto Clemente (1973), who were chosen in special elections.
Gwynn and Ripken each spent their entire major-league career with one team, a rarity these days. They will be inducted during ceremonies held July 29 at the Hall in Cooperstown, N.Y., along with anyone elected from the Veterans Committee vote, which will be announced Feb. 27.
Ripken spent 21 seasons with Baltimore, hitting .276. A 19-time All-Star, he won the AL Rookie of the Year award in 1982, the AL MVP award in 1983 and 1991 and was a two-time Gold Glove shortstop.
Gwynn broke into the majors in 1982 and won eight batting titles to tie Honus Wagner's NL record. He made 15 All-Star teams and won five Gold Gloves as an outfielder.
Copyright 2007 by The Associated Press

 

[Knox The Hatter]

Devon White?
Shit, in that case, why not Mike Pagliarulo?

 

[Illtcklu]

What was that drug Mark supposedly took? It was organic anyway wasn't it?

 

[bellystrokes]

My guy, Tony Gwynn made it. Yay

 

[jugner]

What was that drug Mark supposedly took? It was organic anyway wasn't it?

Anabolic steriods. They're illegal. They may shouldn't be, but they are.

 

[giantfan121262]

Gwynn and Ripkin were no brainers! I don't understand why Gossage is not in. Maybe the guy who casted the blank vote in chicago was his undoing. There were no cheap saves with Goose. He would get nine out save opportunities almost all the time and succeed alot more than he failed. I also think Jim rice has the numbers to get in, but I think there are two things holding him back; 1) He played half his games in the cozy confines of Fenway Park 2) He was a jerk to reporters, who do the voting.

 

[ticklingfeet4fu]

I think this will establish a pattern. I think if Mark McGwire got only 23.5% of the votes and he did steriods. Then he took the stance in congress of wanting to talk about the future of baseball and not the past then where does that leave guys like Rafael Palmerio who was actually caught using steriods and lied before getting to congress??? The fact that steriods cast a shadow of doubt among these players the WRITERS will not forget it. Bonds in my opinion should make it because his numbers dictated he should BEFORE he started using. Palmerio on the other hand has been linked to ACTUALLY using steriods. So now the writers don't have to determine when he used it. They know he used it. So all those homeruns and hit WILL NOT ( and deservingly so ) get into the Hall of Fame anytime in the next 40 years. You know, Palmerio blames Miguel Tejeda for shooting him with the steriods, it amazes me that he didn't blame Viagra. 🙄 I mean isn't that an enhancer???

 

[Mitchell]

Mcgwire not getting in on his first try definitely would have to do with Steriods. From raw numbers, he had more homers than even Reggie Jackson, at 563, and Jackson got in on his first try, with 548. One has to wonder, that, even if not banned for life like Pete Rose, whether Mark will be shunned for life, due to this development.
Another question is Barry Bonds. Unless he surprises people, I think that it is old Barry's intention to hang around long enough to pass Hank Aaron. Even with close to 800 homers, it is very conceivable that Barry will take a long time to get into the Hall, or, maybe never make it, because of the steroid situation. Sad, but a valid question, I think.

Mitch

 

[unclebill]

Big Mac was the first of the steroid generation to be eligable for the hall of fame. I only hope the sportswriters are consistant with their voting as these guys become eligable. For all his faults, McGwire was one hell of a baseball player, and it would be a damn shame if the next steroid user gets inducted.

 

[CitY of MicA]

I liked Mark McGwire as a player. I can remember thinking, in his very early days with the As, that if he could only stay healthy what type of numbers he would put up. If memory serves (and it may not), he hit 48 homers as a rookie. I'm not a fan of Reggie Jackson at all, but I don't think you could simply compare his home run total to McGwire's. Jackson is in the hall of fame for playing and contributing in a profound way to 5 championship teams, not merely piling up home runs. He also hit some of those home runs at opportune times. He'd be the first to tell you. As for comparing the totals, they played at different times. Quite frankly, near the end of McGwire's career, there were plenty of people you never heard of hitting 20 or so homers in a season. That was not the case in the 70s.

I also think Jim rice has the numbers to get in, but I think there are two things holding him back; 1) He played half his games in the cozy confines of Fenway Park 2) He was a jerk to reporters, who do the voting.

I think there's truth to what you say. I dare say, that the baseball Hall of Fame seems to reward longevity- one might be better off being good for 20 years than being great for 10. Rice was a dominant hitter for a good while there. He may have been a bit one dimensional (he won't get inducted on the basis of his defense or base-stealing), but he wouldn't be alone in the Hall on that count. There were so many great players on those Red Sox teams (particularly in the 70s) that I wonder if that has any negative effect on Rice's candidacy. I think that Andre Dawson deserves to be in the Hall. He hit for power, was a threat on the base paths, was a top fielder- basically did everything you could ask of him, and on a bad pair of knees. Plus he was a stand-up guy, which, as you alluded to, may go over well with the voters.

 

[ticklingfeet4fu]

Gwynn and Ripkin were no brainers! I don't understand why Gossage is not in. Maybe the guy who casted the blank vote in chicago was his undoing. There were no cheap saves with Goose. He would get nine out save opportunities almost all the time and succeed alot more than he failed. I also think Jim rice has the numbers to get in, but I think there are two things holding him back; 1) He played half his games in the cozy confines of Fenway Park 2) He was a jerk to reporters, who do the voting.

I think if you are going to discount what Jim Rice has done because he played half his games in Fenway Park then we need to reevaluate who else is in the Hall of Fame from the Red Sox. Wade Boggs ( 1982-1992 ), Ted Williams ( 1939-1942, 1946-1960 ), Carlton Fisk ( 1969, 1971-1980 ), Joe Cronin ( 1935-1947 ), Carl Yastrzemski ( 1961-1983 ). Let's be honest here, it has NOTHING to do with him playing in Fenway Park. The writers have a bone up their butts about how Jim Rice went about dealing with them. But there are guys like Steve Carlton who HATED writers and NEVER spoke with them and he got in first ballot. Let's face it, Jim Rice from 1975-1986 was a DEADLY hitting machine. He was a 30 homer, 100 RBI with a .300 batting average guy long BEFORE steriods. A career .298 hitter with 2452 hits and 382 career homeruns. You would be hard pressed to give me 10 more feared power hitters in that era. I can think of Mike Schmidt from the Phillies, Johnny Bench, Dave Kingman ( only because his homeruns were more of an event because he was not a good hitter ) and Andre Dawson. I cannot think of to many more from 1975-1986 that struck total fear in the pitchers. Rice BELONGS in the Hall of Fame and it is an absolute CRIME that the writers haven't voted that guy in the Hall of Fame.

 

[ticklingfeet4fu]

Gwynn and Ripkin were no brainers! I don't understand why Gossage is not in. Maybe the guy who casted the blank vote in chicago was his undoing. There were no cheap saves with Goose. He would get nine out save opportunities almost all the time and succeed alot more than he failed. I also think Jim rice has the numbers to get in, but I think there are two things holding him back; 1) He played half his games in the cozy confines of Fenway Park 2) He was a jerk to reporters, who do the voting.

I think if you are going to discount what Jim Rice has done because he played half his games in Fenway Park then we need to reevaluate who else is in the Hall of Fame from the Red Sox. Wade Boggs ( 1982-1992 ), Ted Williams ( 1939-1942, 1946-1960 ), Carlton Fisk ( 1969, 1971-1980 ), Joe Cronin ( 1935-1947 ), Carl Yastrzemski ( 1961-1983 ). Let's be honest here, it has NOTHING to do with him playing in Fenway Park. The writers have a bone up their butts about how Jim Rice went about dealing with them. But there are guys like Steve Carlton who HATED writers and NEVER spoke with them and he got in first ballot. Let's face it, Jim Rice from 1975-1986 was a DEADLY hitting machine. He was a 30 homer, 100 RBI with a .300 batting average guy long BEFORE steriods. A career .298 hitter with 2452 hits and 382 career homeruns. You would be hard pressed to give me 10 more feared power hitters in that era. I can think of Mike Schmidt from the Phillies, Johnny Bench of the Reds, Dave Kingman of the Giants, Mets, Cubs, and many other teams( only because his homeruns were more of an event because he was not a good hitter ) and Andre Dawson of the Montreal Expos, Cubs and Red Sox. I cannot think of to many more from 1975-1986 that struck total fear in the pitchers. Rice BELONGS in the Hall of Fame and it is an absolute CRIME that the writers haven't voted that guy in the Hall of Fame.

 

[giantfan121262]

George, I happen to agree with you that Rice belongs in the Hall of Fame. I am just trying to figure out something that somewhat makes sense to me to justify the reason he is not. I am trying to get in the heads of the reporters doing the voting. I am guessing that believe that Rices numbers are atrificially inflated because he played half his games in a park where my 8 year old son can poke a ball to the warning track. AFA the relationship with the reporters go, I think that plays a deciding factor, if there is any doubt at all (in their eyes, not mine) about the numbers alone. If you were a jerk to the reporters then those people can say that he wasn't a man of strong charactar, so therefore he wasn't good for the game. With Carlton, there is no doubt at all about the numbers he put up eventhough he was a total asshole to reporters. Clemens is the modern day Carlton. Eventhough he isn't bad with reporters, his charactar in my mind is questionable. We threw a bat at Piazza in the 2000 World Series, and tells the media that he was taking the bat off the fiels, and expects everybody to believe that. How stupid does he think we are? He is as phony as a three dollar bill, but with the numbers he has accomplished throughout his career, how could you NOT vote him in when his time comes?

There is something else I just don't get. If Bruce Sutter is in why the hell isn't Gossage in? I can tell you if I you asked me which pitcher I dreaded facing more, you can bet your bottom dollar I will tell you Goose 100% of the time. He had a heater which can knock the bat out of your hands. He was the epitome of a closer. Eck gets in when he is pitching in an era where if you are up by three runs or less, and you hold the lead for ONE inning, you are credited with a save. You gotta be kidding me!! Goose pitched in an era where the only time you get credited with a save is when you come in with your team up by one run and the bases loaded and nobody out in the ninth and amazingly hold the lead (It's not that severe, but I am trying to make a point). Closers of Gossages and Sutters (Yes, Sutter belongs, but so does Gossage) era came in to REAL pressure, and these guys got the job done under the most unforgiving conditions where there was absoulrely no margin for error.

 

[natural tickler]

It used to be a while back when you voted a guy in because you thought he was a Hall of Famer. Now we get personal reasons, and then using guidelines not accepted by BBWAA. It just seems to me now its a popularity contest

Can someone explain to me how just last year Lee Smith had a good number of votes and Gossage didn't, and now this year the reverse happens?? How can two guys numbers change without throwing a single pitch??

 

[CitY of MicA]

Can someone explain to me how just last year Lee Smith had a good number of votes and Gossage didn't, and now this year the reverse happens?? How can two guys numbers change without throwing a single pitch??

To my knowledge, the writers can select up to ten names of those who are eligable to be in the Hall. A given writer may have voted for Lee Smith last year among his selections (not all pick ten, of course), but then voted for Gwynn, Ripken, McGwire, and some of the new eligable players this year and left Smith off the list. When shoo-ins become eligable, it may make it exceedingly difficult for the rest of us (who never played). But perceptions also change, and new advocates may come out and campaign for certain players. Jim Rice and Andre Dawson may benefit from the recent skepticism about steroids since they hit for power before steroids were around and about. Other than the few points listed above, having writers change their minds may be the only possibility for certain deserving players to be inducted.

 

[unclebill]

I`m not sure who should be allowed to vote players into the hall of fame, but sportswriters are not the answer in my opinion. What qualifies them to be the morality police??? Most of them are big fat slobs who are only interested in what free food is on the menu in the pressbox. I see that Tony Gwynn and Cal Ripkin did not get 100% of the votes. What kind of moron wouldn`t vote those superstars in on the first ballot??? Perhaps they should choose a panel of baseball historians to do the selecting, and put the politics aside.

 

[Knox The Hatter]

What was that drug Mark supposedly took? It was organic anyway wasn't it?

I think it's called 'Androsteendione'. Can someone confirm?

It certainly wasn't illegal while he was doing it, but questions were raised about it while he was chasing Maris' record.

Yes, I think Jim Rice belongs, by the way...I see the names they put on the ballot every year, and as such, I think I have the right to lobby for the players I like. Felix Millan. Don Cardwell. George 'The Stork' Theodore. Compared to these other mediocrities, why the hell not?

 

[jugner]

I think it's called 'Androsteendione'. Can someone confirm?

It certainly wasn't illegal while he was doing it, but questions were raised about it while he was chasing Maris' record.

Yes, I think Jim Rice belongs, by the way...I see the names they put on the ballot every year, and as such, I think I have the right to lobby for the players I like. Felix Millan. Don Cardwell. George 'The Stork' Theodore. Compared to these other mediocrities, why the hell not?

He admitted to taking the legal stuff. The other is what he wouldn't talk about.