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MENTAL CONDITIONING...Exploring the Mental Orgasm and the submissive

njjen3953

4th Level Orange Feather
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Humans are born with hardware and software. That hardware might be considered to be the physical body and the 'direct' physical triggers and responses that are built into it. These can be the 'automatic' responses such as the rhythmic contraction of muscles used to breathe and pump blood through the heart, the blinking of eyes to keep them moist and a myriad of other maintenance tasks that the body performs continuously. The hardware is also governed by the limitations of its creation, or, it has finite dimensions due to the nature of the materials used to make it.

The software might be considered to be the mental programming platform within the brain itself. It appears that we are born with an informational base. This base is expanded by 'all' of the informational imput that we receive, this includes information we may gather prior to actual birth while still being carried inside the womb. The existence of this base as an actual structure becomes evident by the individual's 'innate' ability to evaluate information and respond or make choices based on that evaluation. An example of this is when a newborn infant learns that through making sound they receive attention. Most infants evaluate this response as 'positive' and incorporate that information into their software as a usage tool. The determination of 'positive or negative' appears to be part of the base software program and not 'imposed' or learned by environment or socialization after birth.

In many ways BDSM explores the 'way' hardware and software work and interact together. Exploring the underlying preexistent built in response codes or informational bases is at the very heart of the relationships between a Dominant and a submissive. Some of the information within this base appears to be an accumulation of species survival encoding, things we as a species have learned and integrated in our effort to continue to exist. We appear to 'pass' this information in our genetic code or in some manner encourage it to exist intact as part of the necessary 'equipment' built into a new life. The strength and intensity of this encoded information does appear to vary from one bloodline to another and within that bloodline itself when certain members of a family appear to get a 'stronger mix' than others.

This software contributes to the automatic response structures of the individual. Reactions that the person does not consciously think about. A Dominant often taps into the undersurface of a submissives mind, that area where these identical responses are held. This is an area where a submissive will react in situations where they perceive an element of 'threat'. The element of 'threat' or 'risk' often triggers them past their thought directed voluntary response chain into the area of innate responses. In many ways the 'desire' or 'need' to respond in a submissive fashion is housed in these responses. The innate 'software' of the submissive tells them that this manner of response and behavior is correct or most liable to lead to success or even more basically survival. The more often that a submissive is 'triggered' into this area the stronger their connection with these responses will become. They are not developing new responses but using ancient ones that they already possess.

A Dominant does not teach a submissive how to be submissive. A Dominant may encourage or condition preexisting responses, aiding a submissive in embracing these responses within themselves. In general you condition responses by positive reinforcement (compliments or approval) and discipline by negative reinforcement (removal of approval). A submissive knows 'how' to do everything. Reaching that information beyond all the current societal and environmental blockades is often difficult and painstaking. A Dominant has the ability through 'expression of presence' to trigger a submissive beyond or through that barrier. On each penetration the submissive will be able to connect more strongly with their underlying self. An example of this type of conditioning training is when a 'brand new submissive' is told simply to 'present' and they instinctively alter their body to an open stance of some kind. A Dominant 'reading' this information is given clues as to what type of information is possible within that submissive. An extension of the simple 'present' may be a unique enormously erotic movement of designed seductive presentation by that submissive after many sessions and experiences of positive encouragement. The Dominant simply encourages the submissive to go into their responses further. If that submissive naturally extends their arms over their head when lying down, the Dominant expresses approval of this reaction and possibly suggests a 'furthering' of the movement such as in the crossing of the submissives wrists. This is a subtle and slow process. Attempts to force a submissive into responses not inherent within them will produce lack of comfort and a display which is inferior. Follow or Direct the clues so presented. A Dominant often has an 'instinctive' or 'innate' understanding of what they are viewing (part of their software informational base)!

Ahh, back to the topic at hand... The mental orgasm. Many submissives have the built in capacity to orgasm through mental command. To access this reaction the Dominant needs to watch and follow the signs of intense erotic arousal within the submissives natural responses. When the submissive is in a highly aroused state the Dominant needs to encourage the submissive in identifying where they are in their mind. This command tells the submissive to 'mark' the area. To some extent when the Dominant later tells that submissive to 'find' that place - the mind of the submissive searches (much like a computer) to obey the command.

Locating the area of physical orgasmic control is the first step. Developing the further conditioned response of triggering on command is done through repeated access of the area to strength the connections. It is important to understand that 'when' a submissive orgasms on command that it is not purely a physical release of orgasmic material, their entire body will respond, nerve endings reacting along the entire skin surface and internally as well. The experience can be so intense and 'primal' that it can be frightening for the submissive at first. In some ways it is a letting go of the full potential. The mind orgasms as well as the body. It is also important to remember that a submissive who is mentally triggered into orgasm may continue to orgasm for hours, their body cycling up and down as the button is pushed over and over inside their mind. This can become painful and even dangerous so it is important for the Dominant to remember to tell the submissive to stop.

Many submissives can bond to the command presence of their Dominant so strongly that achieving the ability to orgasm on command becomes simply part of the daily fabric of their lives. In some ways they present to their Dominant 'access' to this most intimate of pleasures by coupling the trigger to the command. This command can be utilized when the Dominant and submissive are not physically together and may be managing part of their relationship at a distance (via phone) and allow both to enjoy a direct/indirect powerful connection which separation does not inhibit. It can also serve to reinforce the bonding within the relationship.


Source- http://www.steel-door.com/mental_conditioning.htm

Jen
 
Is This Gonna Be On The Final?

Well I'll Be Pavlov's Penis And Or Pussy. They Say The Mind Is The Biggest Sex Organ. Does That Make John Holmes A Rhodes Scholar? (j/k) Whether Bdsm Or Plain Vanilla, To Be Able To Read Between The Lines And Know The Sight, Sound, Touch, Smell, And Taste Combos That Put You And Your Partner Over The Edge Is Amazing. Being Ready, Willing And Able To Learn All Of Each Others 'buttons' Makes It Possible. There Of Couse Must Be Trust And Using The Path Or Matrix For Common Good And Not Selfish Reasons. It Is Of Course Rarely Achieved, But What On Earth Really Worthwhile Isn't?
 
I'm sorry, that was way too long and boring to read. I'm a big fan of achieving orgasms the normal way.
 
Jen, it is kind of long. Can you sort of summarize what we're discussing here?
 
Summary:

Orgasm is primarily a mental, rather than physical response.

Some subs have the ability to have a purely mental orgasm.

The Dom can act as a faciliator and help the sub develop this ability to the point where they can orgasm on command, without any physical touch required.

This training/conditioning takes time and practice, and is reminiscent of Pavlov's experiment.

My comments:
There is a downside to this:
Some subs can be so conditioned that they end up not being ABLE to orgasm without the command from their Dom. If that Dom leaves the picture without addressing that...it can leave the sub completely sexually dysfunctional.
 
Thank you for the summary, Samantha. That pretty much sums it up.

I totally understand your concerns and agree with you about the negative possibilities.

However, being that it is the mind that has the power and the Dom is only the one who has trained the sub to use that power, the sub can use the mind in any given situation with any Dom.

It's kind of like The Wizard of Oz. Dorothy had the power all along, but she needed Glinda to show her how to use it.

Jen
*Who really believes that any of life's analogies can be attributed in someway to that movie*
 
Flying Monkeys At Three O'clock....................

YES. ''I'M MELTING!!!" IS PROBABLY NOT CLASS "A" PILLOW TALK. 😉 I'M sure the dependancy issue could cause problems in many types of relationships. Hopefully both parties are working for a common good. This topic takes mind games to a whole new level.
 
I'll be honest. It all sounds pretty far out and fantastic. "Mental" orgasms? That seems like a stretch to me. Assuming for a moment that they actually do exist, I would have to believe that a physical orgasm feels better. I wonder what other bodily functions can be converted to mental?

"Hi honey, I'm home. How was your day?"

"Oh it was wonderful. I had a mental orgasm while having coffee at Starbucks with Deardra. Oh by the way, don't use the bathroom. Jimmy stopped up the toilet again."

"No worries, honey. I'll just take a mental shit while I'm going over the bills."
 
"I'll be honest. It all sounds pretty far out and fantastic. "Mental" orgasms? That seems like a stretch to me."

Why? Can't speak for men, but for most women there is a HUGE mental component to sexual arousal and satisfaction. You can rub my clit all day long, but if my head isn't where it needs to be...you will be wasting your time (and mine, lol).

That said, I don't think it is a *common* thing to be able to do. I have gotten very very close...so close that it only took flexing a muscle to push myself over the edge. "Look, ma! No hands!!!!"

"Assuming for a moment that they actually do exist, I would have to believe that a physical orgasm feels better. "

Again, that may be a gender thing to some extent. Guys seem to have much more of a sense of physical release during orgasm. For me (and for most of the women I have talked to in my life), there is much more of a mental/emotional release during orgasm.

However, in tantra, men learn to have orgasm without ejaculation. It allows them to experience multiple orgasms. It is called riding the wave, and from what I understand, makes purely physical orgasms pale in comparison.

"I wonder what other bodily functions can be converted to mental?"

Orgasm is not purely a bodily function though, which is the point of the article. If you treat it as such, you miss out on the potential for a deeper experience.
 
Thank you for the summary, Samantha. That pretty much sums it up.

I totally understand your concerns and agree with you about the negative possibilities.

However, being that it is the mind that has the power and the Dom is only the one who has trained the sub to use that power, the sub can use the mind in any given situation with any Dom.

It's kind of like The Wizard of Oz. Dorothy had the power all along, but she needed Glinda to show her how to use it.

Jen
*Who really believes that any of life's analogies can be attributed in someway to that movie*

Jen,

I'm not saying people shouldn't explore this...just that they have to be aware that conditioning often happens on a subconscious level, rather than a conscious one, and that can have consequences that may not have been intended.

That is why pavlov's experiments worked on dogs...a conditioned response does not require conscious, rational thought. In fact, it purposely seeks to bypass thought in order to make the response *automatic*.

With enough conditioning the response become muscles memory...a reflex, rather than a choice.
 
"I'll be honest. It all sounds pretty far out and fantastic. "Mental" orgasms? That seems like a stretch to me."

Orgasm is not purely a bodily function though, which is the point of the article. If you treat it as such, you miss out on the potential for a deeper experience.

I'm glad someone finally said it!!

Orgasm means a helluva more to me than just getting off! Hell, I could do that myself and don't need another man's help!

However, sex/lovemaking has a much more emotional and even a spiritual component to it for me--it's not just meeting a physical need. That is why I am careful about who I let in my bedroom; with every time we make love, I fall more deeply in love with him. I drop my guard and trust him that much more with each time we're together. I can't have just anyone in my bed who isn't willing to do the same; the heartbreak is just too devastating for me.

I'm just hard-wired that way sexually; wish I wasn't, but I am. But I still take the ladies at their word who say they can orgasm mentally. I wouldn't be too crazy about the "orgasm on demand" stuff; I kinda like mine the old-fashioned way!:devil2:
 
I'll be honest. It all sounds pretty far out and fantastic. "Mental" orgasms? That seems like a stretch to me. Assuming for a moment that they actually do exist, I would have to believe that a physical orgasm feels better. I wonder what other bodily functions can be converted to mental?

"Hi honey, I'm home. How was your day?"

"Oh it was wonderful. I had a mental orgasm while having coffee at Starbucks with Deardra. Oh by the way, don't use the bathroom. Jimmy stopped up the toilet again."

"No worries, honey. I'll just take a mental shit while I'm going over the bills."

This is the kind of statement that tries to be funny but just means the guy saying it doesn't know how to please a woman or how much a woman's mind is capable of acheiving. Any man who makes fun of healthy female sexual exploration is not a man secure in his own sexuality. Too bad.
 
This all goes back to the topic in the "tickle/orgasm" thread..

I mentioned before that I am indeed capable of experiencing orgasm without any physical touch applied by me or a partner, and It was dubbed damn near 'impossible'.

Yes, apparently many are too close-minded to be willing to accept this as a possibility, but frankly it is.

The physical bringing of an orgasm is amazing because of the connection of two bodies and all the aspects that come into play in that area...But, being capable of achieving an orgasm without touch is just as intense.

Not something I'd like to experience forever with no physical touch. BUT the feeling's of experiencing something like that are quite phenomenal.
 
This is the kind of statement that tries to be funny but just means the guy saying it doesn't know how to please a woman or how much a woman's mind is capable of acheiving. Any man who makes fun of healthy female sexual exploration is not a man secure in his own sexuality. Too bad.


I have to comment here for 2 reasons. One is because this could be taken as flamatory and I really do not want this thread turned into a flame war.

Secondly, I know Drew personally and although his mind may not be Wide Open, I do not think he is insecure in his sexuality.

Jen
 
I have to comment here for 2 reasons. One is because this could be taken as flamatory and I really do not want this thread turned into a flame war.

Secondly, I know Drew personally and although his mind may not be Wide Open, I do not think he is insecure in his sexuality.

Jen

Not trying to start trouble here. I just think that a man crude enough to compare a wonder of the female mental orgasm with 'taking a mental shit' is being nasty and he's the one trying to flame. If you can still defend a 'man' like that then you're a very nice lady.
 
First of all, I'm assuming that one reason Jen posted this article was in response to some disbelief expressed in the "Tickle Orgasm" thread. Now I may not buy into everything she does, but it has no bearing on my friendship with her. She's a wonderful lady, and I don't require my friends to agree with me on such issues.

I normally don't read articles like this, because try as I might, I just can't get on board with certain aspects of BDSM. Articles such as this one serve to remind me that as abhorent as it sounds, there are actually people that get off on being treated like a dog, forced to bark on command; even to the point of wearing collars for Christ's sake. And what's even worse, there are people that get off on exercising that control over others.

But suffice to say that for the purpose of this discussion, I did read the entire article twice, if for no other reason than to preclude predictable objections like "If you'd actually READ the article, blah blah BLAH!"

"I'll be honest. It all sounds pretty far out and fantastic. "Mental" orgasms? That seems like a stretch to me."

Why? Can't speak for men, but for most women there is a HUGE mental component to sexual arousal and satisfaction. You can rub my clit all day long, but if my head isn't where it needs to be...you will be wasting your time (and mine, lol).
A most tempting invitation I'm sure, but if it's all the same to you, I'll just take your word for it. 🙂 I did say (and still maintain) that genital stimulation is a requirement for orgasm, but I never said it was the only one, neither did I ever dispute that the brain is the center of it all, yes even for us guys. Hell, we get hot and bothered just watching Baywatch. But like women, we too are wired in such a way that the mind and body work together to achieve and experience an orgasm.

This is the kind of statement that tries to be funny but just means the guy saying it doesn't know how to please a woman or how much a woman's mind is capable of acheiving. Any man who makes fun of healthy female sexual exploration is not a man secure in his own sexuality. Too bad.
This is the kind of statement that tries to defend women but just means the guy saying it is merely looking to establish himself as a "sensitive guy." Any man who needs to put down other men in order to ingratiate himself with women is not a man secure in his own sexuality. Too bad.

I mentioned before that I am indeed capable of experiencing orgasm without any physical touch applied by me or a partner, and It was dubbed damn near 'impossible'.

Yes, apparently many are too close-minded to be willing to accept this as a possibility, but frankly it is.
Frankly, I don't believe it. Frankly, the fact that the most sensitive errogenous zones of both men and women are in or near the genitalia force me to conclude that it's a major component of achieving orgasm. Not the only component, but clearly a necessary one. Frankly, it makes sense on a Darwinian level that those critical zones would be placed in areas associated with reproduction and thus the perpetuation of the species. And as long as we're speaking frankly, there's a difference between a closed mind and healthy skepticism.

I just think that a man crude enough to compare a wonder of the female mental orgasm with 'taking a mental shit' is being nasty and he's the one trying to flame. If you can still defend a 'man' like that then you're a very nice lady.
What can I say? Not all of us can be "fabulous emperors." :idunno: I'm thinking low self esteem isn't one of your failings.

Yes, it was crude, but it makes a point. If one bodily function can be achieved mentally and not physically, why not all of them? Orgasm is a function of the body as well as the mind.
 
This is the kind of statement that tries to defend women but just means the guy saying it is merely looking to establish himself as a "sensitive guy." Any man who needs to put down other men in order to ingratiate himself with women is not a man secure in his own sexuality. Too bad.

A man does not have to be sensitive around here. He just doesn't have to be an argumentive who picks on people's posts for no good reason and calls it 'debate' when it's only to put people down. I have been a lurker here for a long, long time, Drew70. I've seen you pick on and make fun of lots of nice people, especially women just because they have better sex lives than you ever will and the courage to make thier fantasies into realities instead of hiding behind pretend 'morality'. The big apology you wrote awhile ago was 3 dollar bill fake, you did not mean it and you keep proving that. You put yourself down every time you pretend that you don't really want to be a submissive woman and that's why you are so mean to TMF women who have what you would want if you could have it. You even pretend to be women with fake names, I have seen this when you make mistakes in your writings. The women on here do not need defending but I will bet they are tired of you.

I will not keep talking to you in this thread out of respect for njjen. Moderators, and jen, if this is too much like flame I apologize.
 
Drew, I can understand your skepticism. I can also understand your disbelief in how the BDSM lifestyle can actually be pleasant. I hope nobody takes this as a shameless plug, but Lee and I just did 2 of what will be at least a 3 part series on BDSM on our radio show. Drew, I recommend listening to them, and you will get some great perspective on how submissives don't "get off on being treated like a dog," and we even discuss the use of collars, and their meaning.

Amanda
 
"I did say (and still maintain) that genital stimulation is a requirement for orgasm,"

But do you not see how that might not be true for *everyone*?

I am sure that is a requirement for you...and I'd even go as far as to say it is required for most people. And it is certainly the most direct route.

But the human body/mind is a wondrous thing...capable of much more than we often give it credit for.

What about the "wet dreams" that young men have? They aren't masturbating in their sleep...they are having a very strong erotic dream. The mind *perceives* stimulation that isn't actually happening.
 
Drew70 said:
Frankly, I don't believe it. Frankly, the fact that the most sensitive errogenous zones of both men and women are in or near the genitalia force me to conclude that it's a major component of achieving orgasm. Not the only component, but clearly a necessary one. Frankly, it makes sense on a Darwinian level that those critical zones would be placed in areas associated with reproduction and thus the perpetuation of the species. And as long as we're speaking frankly, there's a difference between a closed mind and healthy skepticism.


That's fine. BUT..there are other's who are capable of achieving an orgasm without physical touch.

You have your opinion, and I will have my fact. 🙂


This is turning into a convince Drew and others party..instead of a discussion.. We all are going to have different views AND experiences.

I, for one..HAVE. I simply stated that it indeed IS possible.
 
Frankly, the fact that the most sensitive errogenous zones of both men and women are in or near the genitalia force me to conclude that it's a major component of achieving orgasm. Not the only component, but clearly a necessary one.

Just 'cause I love seeing my name on screen, I'm gonna repeat a point I made in the earlier thread: Aren't wet dreams proof that genital stimulation is completely unnecessary for orgasm? A very very common proof that is experienced by most (all?) guys and not a few women?
 
Elation vs Ejaculation

Just 'cause I love seeing my name on screen, I'm gonna repeat a point I made in the earlier thread: Aren't wet dreams proof that genital stimulation is completely unnecessary for orgasm? A very very common proof that is experienced by most (all?) guys and not a few women?
I too love seeing your name on screen, tickledgirl. 🙂 I suppose you have a point if you believe all wet dreams qualify as full fledged orgasms. But what many people don't realize is that the release of semen isn't restricted to the realm of orgasm. Like women, men in high states of arousal can "leak" fluids without actual orgasm.

But even assuming that wet dreams are orgasmic, who can attest to their body motions while asleep? We're talking about a man sleeping with an erection, tossing and turning while dreaming of pleasuring Beyonce. It would be hard to avoid pressure or friction in this scenario.
 
Yes it is possible to achive orgasm without stimulation by conditioning. But you are still held within the limits of your body. If you suffer from some sort of phyisical condition that might limit or prevents orgasm ,no matter how well done the conditioning. Other factors can play apart in helping or hindering the out come as well.
 
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