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NFL In Serious League Shaking Trouble

The Seeker

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I know I don't post much especially on the main boards but I read this article that I provided and frankly, as a big NFL fan i'm scared shitless for it's future. I was hoping to get some responses for this dilemma from some of the knowledgeable sports fans here. It seems that the most pressing issue facing the NFL owners at their meeting isnt the length of the players' hair, forceouts, or even cheating. Its the state of the NFL economy. Math, finances and union bargaining are not among my strong points, so bear with me. If anyone can make it clearer, please do.
Some owners wish to opt out of the collective bargaining agreement. The immediate effective would be to make 2010 an uncapped year. Owners like Jerry Jones and Dan Synder would have a field day and small market teams would give away and would soon be gone. Teams like the Green Bay Packers maybe. It would be the end of football as we know it. Another part of the financial issue is the fact that the NFL has a debt of 9 billion dollars, more than any other league. Much of this debt is tied up in new stadiums. Goodell says margins are tight and interest rates could go up and this could have a significant impact on clubs. Denver Broncos owner Pat Bowlen says that their labor deal isnt working. The Broncos have cut 8 front office positions but they wont cut resources in their football operations.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/2008-03-31-owners-meetings_N.htm

The country's economy is hurting bad, but teams are building stadiums and many of them are raising ticket prices. Players are getting paid outrageous sums of money. Can the average Joe afford to shell out the kind of money needed to attend these games. Is this the point where the NFL cuts its own throat?
 
I know I don't post much especially on the main boards but I read this article that I provided and frankly, as a big NFL fan i'm scared shitless for it's future. I was hoping to get some responses for this dilemma from some of the knowledgeable sports fans here. It seems that the most pressing issue facing the NFL owners at their meeting isnt the length of the players' hair, forceouts, or even cheating. Its the state of the NFL economy. Math, finances and union bargaining are not among my strong points, so bear with me. If anyone can make it clearer, please do.
Some owners wish to opt out of the collective bargaining agreement. The immediate effective would be to make 2010 an uncapped year. Owners like Jerry Jones and Dan Synder would have a field day and small market teams would give away and would soon be gone. Teams like the Green Bay Packers maybe. It would be the end of football as we know it. Another part of the financial issue is the fact that the NFL has a debt of 9 billion dollars, more than any other league. Much of this debt is tied up in new stadiums. Goodell says margins are tight and interest rates could go up and this could have a significant impact on clubs. Denver Broncos owner Pat Bowlen says that their labor deal isnt working. The Broncos have cut 8 front office positions but they wont cut resources in their football operations.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/2008-03-31-owners-meetings_N.htm

The country's economy is hurting bad, but teams are building stadiums and many of them are raising ticket prices. Players are getting paid outrageous sums of money. Can the average Joe afford to shell out the kind of money needed to attend these games. Is this the point where the NFL cuts its own throat?


AHHHHH a man after my own heart.

Let not your heart be troubled my friend.

1.) the NFL will never be baseball. the structure of the draft prevents it. college football is the best hedge in the world against that. in the MLB you have to devote money to a multitier farm system to develop talent, and the draft is not the biggest way of player acquisition. you have to send scouts all over the world etc. the progressive structire of the nfl draft, and the abundance of football talent in north america prevents a pure baseball system.

Talent acquisition is always going to be the determining factor. the Marlins win a WS every other year because they have the ability to go out and find the best players in the world and then sell them to the bigger clubs when they are past their prime to drive up their player costs. the difference between them and a team like the yankees is that in thier system they don't have the monetary ability to keep guys till they are 40.

also the economics of baseball are much much bigger. over the course of a MBL season there are 162 games and then playoff series. in the nfl there are 24-25 games total for the team that advances all the way to the superbowl. with a truncated scheduel it is a lot harder to have the wealth desparity that exists in the MLB. think about it, A rods salary itself is worth three times the current cap number and more than 80 million dollars more than what Bear Sterns was worth when it was bought.

Football players are done at 32ish. in baseball you have pitchers over 40 who are still instrumental starters for teams in the playoffs and are commanding the highest salaries. In the NFL there is a constant system of replacement because of a shorter window of a players prime.

2.) the salary cap does not work. The two lies of the salary cap.

a.) there would not be a dynasty-tom brady ripped that to shreds.

b.) the small market teams will be able to compete with the big market teams and still make a profit.

the NFL is now and has always been about finding a QB that can win over the longterm. very few times is that QB acquired by freeagency. usually that player is drafted and groomed by the team that they go on to win with. The pats beat the system because they drafted a kid in the 6th round who just happens to be the greatest QB to ever lace it up. the colts had manning, the cowboys had aikman, the steelers had bradshaw, unitas was unitas, etc. the question really comes down to cap or no cap do you have the guy that can win.

I am from jacksonville. we are the lowest revenue team in the league and the salary cap has basicly screwed our team twice. how can that happen? It's suposed to protect teams like us right? well in 1999 when we were selling out games, winning playoff games, etc. after we lost the AFC championship game (our second in 5 years) we had to gut the roster because of the cap. now this is a situation where we had the players, had the QB in mark brunell, were in our championship window of oppurtunity with 3 possible hall of fame players but we had to gut the roster because of the cap even though we were making the reenue to make us profitable and fit the players into their proper salaries. so when we were hot we had to break the team up and missed the playoffs for 5 years in forced rebuilding.

as a young franchise the 5 years of loosing hurt us a hell of a lot more than having to pay our guys to resign with us and keep filling the stadium up with a championship caliber football team.

now we have gone through the cap hell and we are becoming a trendy pick to win the superbowl this upcoming season. but the cap is about to bite us in the ass again. WHY? we have 30 million dollars of cap room. well there is something called a cap MINIMUM. no matter what you have to spend x amount every year. that's BS. this is because of the TFR model. the TFR model means that every dime that comes into the pocket of all the owners is added up, divided by 32 crossed by .65 and that is the cap. you have to spend i think 87% of that number to field a team. so that means that in dallas where they have all the tradition in the world, rings, a fan base, and more people in the city when they make a billion dollars, i am mandated to pay my players more even though my roster is better and they are willing to play for me for less.

This is just further proof that socialism in all its forms just hurts everyone.

what has the cap succeeded in doing? nothing. there was still a dunasty. the alternative minimum for the cap is driving required player costs so high on middle and low revenue teams that they are going into the red just to field a team. that is against the nature of the salary caps intentions. right now the cap will mandate that most teams outside of the big stadium high revenue teams loose money and bleed to death even if they win the superbowl every year. that is crap.

3.) you can't buy a championship.

Dan snyder is an idiot. i don't worry about him. he doesn't know how to find talent, they just sing people for more than they are worth. he spends money like water now and are the skins really all that good. the nfl has what you call a soft cap meaning that you can push a contract out with bonus money to minimize the hit so basicly the redskins sign whoever they want anyway. with restricted free agency, franchise tags, and the willingness to let some players go the really big name players are always with the teams that drafted them. when someone gets into free agency in the modern era there is usually something wrong with them. they are generally too old, or have a bad attitude. everyone overrates the impact of FA every year. nate clement was the highest paid defensive player in history with 80 million dollars. who is nate clement? that''s my point. the supplu of top free agents is so low that the demand is way up and they get overpaid bigtime. this eats the hell out of the big revenue teams that sign them because they are really average players.

the legit question you could make is dallas, but when you look at their dynasty i know they drafted troy aikman, and they drafted emmit smith. this has always been a real draft and develop league. the salary cap only keeps you from keeping the guys that you draft. the 49ers can traace their dynasty back to the one draft where they got montanna and like 6 other starters. and the team that drafted those players is in a window of a championship and was filling the stadium anyway.

so don't worry about someone buying up all the good players, their are enough to go around, the draft and college football prevent a pure monopoly, you still have to do talent evaluation.

4.) the economy has little effect on the total football picture.

certain towns liek j vile who are heavy on construction might have a little problem because we are still building a fan base, but the economy won't touch football. the economic situation right now is specific to the riple effects of the housing industry and bad loans. we still have over 95% employment, and football does not have demand it has addiction. this country would not function without the NFL. perople will literally let go of gas and skip meals to go to a game. i know i have done it. and in most places the season tickets are actually paid for in cash so people generally plan out years in advance how to get that done. the nfl is a much safer bet than just about anything.

this should be an indicator to everyone that the economy is not as bad as people think. if it ever gets to the point where a low budget gozilla rip off doesn't make a million dollars or stadiums stop filling up, then you worry. when there is a specific product in the marketplace that just has to weed itself out then just chill.

I could talk about this all day, i hope i answered your question, but please, don't sweat it. we are going to be fine, the cap is not that big of a deal. i know here in the ville we have a winner right now below the league minimum and we have most of our key guys locked up for the longterm.
 
Wow JJ as I said i'm not much on economics but you seemed to counterpoint the the article I provided blow for blow. Thanks for setting my mind at ease buddy! 🙂 And if I were you though i'd be higher on the Jaguars! Maybe the best front 4 in the NFL (either them or the Giants), new receivers in Troy Williamson and Jerry Porter to give David Garrard the weapons he needs and a huge offensive line and running game to wear down opposing defenses. Hell, I consider the Jags serious contenders for the AFC Championship! :cool2:
 
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Wow JJ as I said i'm not much on economics but you seemed to counterpoint the the article I provided blow for blow. Thanks for setting my mind at ease buddy! 🙂 And if I were you though i'd be higher on the Jaguars! Maybe the best front 4 in the NFL (either them or the Giants), new receivers in Troy Williamson and Jerry Porter to give David Garrard the weapons he needs and a huge offensive line and running game to wear down opposing defenses. Hell, I consider the Jags serious contenders for the AFC Championship! :cool2:

as do i. the collection of football players ont he field is in its championship window of oppurtunity. we have done a terrific job as a small market team finding great players.

my only problem is that i now how the cap works. teams like the redskins push money out to make room for big contracts. teams like the jags bring money forward throuhg roster bonuses and guarenteed salary to meet the cap minimum each year. next year it will be hard for us to make the minimum and have the owner still turn a profit. the last few years the team hasn't been profitable even though we are pioised as you said to make a run for the superbowl.

by the way buddy, what team do you root for?
 
I can't wait for the cap to leave.


Yeah but I see you're a Dallas Cowboys fan. I bet Jerry Jones has it marked on his calendar the earliest possible day the salary cap is gone this way he is free to officially become the next George Steinbrenner and make his team the Yankees of the NFL. I can only imagine teams like Cowboys and Redskins payroll when the cap leaves! It will probably equal that of the pointless Iraq war which drove the economy down in the first place! :wowzer:
 
Yeah but I see you're a Dallas Cowboys fan. I bet Jerry Jones has it marked on his calendar the earliest possible day the salary cap is gone this way he is free to officially become the next George Steinbrenner and make his team the Yankees of the NFL. I can only imagine teams like Cowboys and Redskins payroll when the cap leaves! It will probably equal that of the pointless Iraq war which drove the economy down in the first place! :wowzer:

really
speak more about that.
I would love to hear why you think the iraq war is responsible for the adverse economic cycle...
 
Well i'm from New York City and yes I root for the Super Bowl Champions! 😉

and that's three league championship games and a superbowl win for TC in the last 12 years. he is quoetly one of the best coaches in the league. you guys got him from a pretty good team i bet...

hahaha

i think that you guys are on cruise control for the next 7-10 years. eli really turned the corner, i really like what that steve smith kid has to offer, amazing COD and 4.44 speed on top of that. he can be a reall nich reciever for a while. plexiglass has really grown up since we beat up on him in the afc central. i think that the offense is set.

umenyora is another superstar, even if strahan retires i think that tuck moving back to strongside end will still give you a dominant edge rush, i love the depth you guys had at corner. i think that webster left but i know that you guys still had the rook ross, madison, and mcquarters. did you guys resign gibril wilson?

and just think, shockey was hurt.

i think that you guys are going to be really set for as long as eli is playing at a high level.

let me ask you, who do you think they will be targeting in the draft, and what do you make of the situation at runningback longterm.
 
did you guys resign gibril wilson?

i think that you guys are going to be really set for as long as eli is playing at a high level.

let me ask you, who do you think they will be targeting in the draft, and what do you make of the situation at runningback longterm.

1. No, Wilson's an Oakland Raider unfortunately.

2. I really hope Eli can be more consistent but history shows that he's erratic, he can be very good or very bad. How can you not like him now though?

3. Don't know specifically who they'll target in the draft but I hear they're looking at TE John Carlson and some secondary help.

4. Derrick Ward, Brandon Jacobs and Ahmad Bradshaw. Longterm at runningback it's well sealed up with the recent re-signing of Ward. Ward is an effective steady runner who is an excellent receiver as well, Jacobs if he stops fumbling can not be brought down and Bradshaw is one of the most explosive runners in the league. I'd say pretty damn good at the runningback position for a longtime.
 
really
speak more about that.
I would love to hear why you think the iraq war is responsible for the adverse economic cycle...

Ok be merciful please JJ because as I said I don't know much about economics. I mean if this war cost near 100 billion dollars it stands out as the culprit of a a fading economy. Keep in mind i'm just going by what I see. :wavingguy
 
Lets keep the discussion on football guys…if I wanted my ears to bleed I’d go to the pr forum…

I agree with most of what jj has already said with one exception- you can bet your fur the economy effects football. While it probably effects league profits minimally it DOES affect the teams in small markets, and if you’re a fan of one I’d say watch out. Small market towns get the worst on both ends- they reap little from a robust national economy but still bear the full brunt of recession. Case in point is Buffalo. There’s good reason why Bills tickets are the cheapest in the league, and that’s because Buffalo is the second poorest “large” city in the country. The anemic economy there is the main reason why there’s talk of moving the team to Toronto (or LA) after the stadium lease expires in 5 years. Forget that Bills fans consistently sell out one of the biggest stadiums in the league to watch a team that hasn’t made the playoffs in 7 years- if Buffalo can’t fill luxury boxes with corporations or increase ticket prices to the league average then there are cities with better economies that can. Couple a bleak economy with the end of the cap and the very real possibility of a player’s strike in 2011 and there’s not a chance that the Bills stay put. Note that the ONLY TWO owners in the entire league that didn’t agree to the CBA were the owners of the Bills and Bengals. This grim outlook goes for any small market team, save maybe Green Bay which is firmly grandfathered into the NFL. Compare it to a war of attrition; even though every city loses during economic recession the small ones like Buffalo will break the bank first.
Also, the ‘socialist’ aspect of NFL economics is the only reason there are 32 teams in the league, since the 15 most profitable teams of the league subsidize the costs of the 15 least profitable. Fair or not, without this system the league would be a lot smaller and composed strictly of teams representing places like NY and Dallas. Make no mistake, the majority of owners in the NFL would love to see teams like the Bills, Bengals, even the Jags go in favor of a team in Toronto or LA, because its more money in their pockets…and that has everything to do with economy.
 
Ok be merciful please JJ because as I said I don't know much about economics. I mean if this war cost near 100 billion dollars it stands out as the culprit of a a fading economy. Keep in mind i'm just going by what I see. :wavingguy

hey, you're a football fan. we have to stick together. we have enough problems in life getting to the stadium or keeping the remote away from our wives on sunday's-and forget monday night.

war is generally good for the economy. those billions of dollars have gone from the governments hands to the hands of soldiers, and the people who make the weapons. the people who make the weapons employ a lot of people. starting a way is good for the economy.

the national debt and or deficit can have a longterm infaltionary effect but i don't think we are there yet but we will be with a blue november.

right now what we have is a housing issue that i think is isolated form the white house. you had record lows in interest rates, liberal lending practices, and ARMS that people really didn't know how to manage because they were untraditional (meaning newish).

al that recession means is that the economy is shrinking. the economy was driven by essentially all this bad paper that was being sold in the early part of that decade. as those bad loan products are adjusting, and the property taxes are inflating higher than income then you have a breaking point where you have record foreclosures.

it used to be that banks owned and serviced loans, you go there you pay them thats it. now you have a situation where a smaller brokerage calls you on the phone says 1% for three years, you run down and sign an option arm that adjusts to six% six months after you sign the closing docs but the payment stays the same and it negatively amortizes. that lender didn't care because it got its money in the short term, not the longterm. the agent got paid a nonchargebackable commission day one, and then the lender sells the paper and gets its money back with a little interest. then you have hedge funds and agencies that buy all this paper and run the economy holding all this crap paper.

when it adjusts there is a ripple effect. the mortgagee holding the loan can't pay it, they loose their house, the person holding the paper just lost hundreds of thousands of dollars. that's why financial institutions are in the tank. to compensate, they stop buying loans like that. then the primary lender that used to sell all this crap off is left holding paper they never intended to service and they are not big enough so they go out of business. then you have a bunch of houses that are sitting in foreclosure tha are dirt cheap. they lower home values so that people who would have qualified to refinance before the adjustment period can't because now their loan to value ratio is too low. then another wave of foreclosures, hedge funds going to zero, financials in the tank, etc.

then they tighten the lengind criteria to prevent further problems. that means the demand for new homes being built is way down because you are limiting the number of qualified buyers and flooding the market with affordable used homes, so residential construction evaporates. that means less jobs, less pizza being bought, less steak being sold etc.

what caused all this?

1.) mortgage borkers do not have a vested interest in you keeping your house. even slimey insurance salesman have that. we need to mandate that these guys have differed compensation that ties them to making the best decision for their client.

2.) people don't read their mortgage docs. so many people thought they had fixed rates, and really had interest only's or arms. the funny thing is that you really can't say its fraud because when the closing guy is rushing you throuhg those papers you have the home owners signature on pages that talk about the rate changes in big letters. people think a truth in lending statment is what their mortgage agent told them to sell them the loan. we need to close the awarness gap.

3.) most financial products are distributed all wrong. who do you know that went into foreclosure who had a written financial plan longer than 10 years? i'll answer for you-no one. we need to distribute financial products in the context of longterm financial gameplans that allows people to see the full impact of thier loan for the longterm, not just salivate over the teaser rate.

4.) we don't save in this country. -1% savings rate in the largest economy in the history of Earth. people have an addiction to credit and as a result have no liquidity or equity. if people had 6 months of income saved this would have never happened. we would have just jad a wave of traditional conversiosn from this garbage that we have in the market today and people would have kept their homes.

5.) people really believe that they will be in debt the rest of their life no matter what, and they pln that way. they think in terms of rate and PAYMENT, not in terms of TERM OF LOAN and TOTAL COST. rhis is part of the awarness gap. when people only focus on the short term because they have given up hope of true ownership the country suffers.

6.) with energy costs school etc. its hard to save even if you want to but everyone in this country saves about 8% of their income. the government mandates it. the only problem is that the system they put it into is just about the same as throwing it off a mountain and hoping it comes back to you. if the proceeds from SS taxes were invested in the average balanced fund or growth and income fund and people had real equity in it then the wealth in this country would be unimaginable. think about it. you have people forced to pay 8% of their income into a system for 20 years and then when their mortgage payment goes up a hair they don't have access to their money? what the heck type of sense does that make? if a person made 30k a year and they worked for 35 years and they averaged a 12% rate of return (the average for a groth mutual fund) they would retire with roughly 1.3 million dollars. I'll take that plan. allow people to have equity in their retirement.

one of the things that has mitigated this situation is the influx of liquidity fromt he governemnt. i would rather have the budget run a deficit than more people loose their homes... wouldn't you. the current tax environemt is saving homes. working class families are getting influxes of 2.5k per child in income tax credits that they enver paid into the system that give them much needed cash to stay afloat and we have made it easier for their employeer to keep them employed throuhg a more tax favorable environment. if the problem is that people aren't liquid enough, does it make sense to raise their taxes?

anyway, this is the short version of why i think the economy is where it is, what got us there, and how to move forward in the longterm.
 
Lets keep the discussion on football guys…if I wanted my ears to bleed I’d go to the pr forum…

I agree with most of what jj has already said with one exception- you can bet your fur the economy effects football. While it probably effects league profits minimally it DOES affect the teams in small markets, and if you’re a fan of one I’d say watch out. Small market towns get the worst on both ends- they reap little from a robust national economy but still bear the full brunt of recession. Case in point is Buffalo. There’s good reason why Bills tickets are the cheapest in the league, and that’s because Buffalo is the second poorest “large” city in the country. The anemic economy there is the main reason why there’s talk of moving the team to Toronto (or LA) after the stadium lease expires in 5 years. Forget that Bills fans consistently sell out one of the biggest stadiums in the league to watch a team that hasn’t made the playoffs in 7 years- if Buffalo can’t fill luxury boxes with corporations or increase ticket prices to the league average then there are cities with better economies that can. Couple a bleak economy with the end of the cap and the very real possibility of a player’s strike in 2011 and there’s not a chance that the Bills stay put. Note that the ONLY TWO owners in the entire league that didn’t agree to the CBA were the owners of the Bills and Bengals. This grim outlook goes for any small market team, save maybe Green Bay which is firmly grandfathered into the NFL. Compare it to a war of attrition; even though every city loses during economic recession the small ones like Buffalo will break the bank first.
Also, the ‘socialist’ aspect of NFL economics is the only reason there are 32 teams in the league, since the 15 most profitable teams of the league subsidize the costs of the 15 least profitable. Fair or not, without this system the league would be a lot smaller and composed strictly of teams representing places like NY and Dallas. Make no mistake, the majority of owners in the NFL would love to see teams like the Bills, Bengals, even the Jags go in favor of a team in Toronto or LA, because its more money in their pockets…and that has everything to do with economy.

i would consider those points more macro than micro. i am talking about spontaneous economic flux, not the longterm competative advantage of one market to another. and trust me, j ville is feeling the pinch as well but that was happening even in the boom of the market. at a certain point in a location its about the numbers.
 
Lets keep the discussion on football guys…if I wanted my ears to bleed I’d go to the pr forum…

I agree with most of what jj has already said with one exception- you can bet your fur the economy effects football. While it probably effects league profits minimally it DOES affect the teams in small markets, and if you’re a fan of one I’d say watch out. Small market towns get the worst on both ends- they reap little from a robust national economy but still bear the full brunt of recession. Case in point is Buffalo. There’s good reason why Bills tickets are the cheapest in the league, and that’s because Buffalo is the second poorest “large” city in the country. The anemic economy there is the main reason why there’s talk of moving the team to Toronto (or LA) after the stadium lease expires in 5 years. Forget that Bills fans consistently sell out one of the biggest stadiums in the league to watch a team that hasn’t made the playoffs in 7 years- if Buffalo can’t fill luxury boxes with corporations or increase ticket prices to the league average then there are cities with better economies that can. Couple a bleak economy with the end of the cap and the very real possibility of a player’s strike in 2011 and there’s not a chance that the Bills stay put. Note that the ONLY TWO owners in the entire league that didn’t agree to the CBA were the owners of the Bills and Bengals. This grim outlook goes for any small market team, save maybe Green Bay which is firmly grandfathered into the NFL. Compare it to a war of attrition; even though every city loses during economic recession the small ones like Buffalo will break the bank first.


Fair or not, without this system the league would be a lot smaller and composed strictly of teams representing places like NY and Dallas. Make no mistake, the majority of owners in the NFL would love to see teams like the Bills, Bengals, even the Jags go in favor of a team in Toronto or LA, because its more money in their pockets…and that has everything to do with economy.


good points. And it sounds like the NFL is becoming a victim of the economic mess that they invite on some local gullible and naieve municipalities who simply must have the novelty of an NFL team, at any and all costs .

Cities like los angeles frustrate the NFL because of the lack of a rabid demand for an NFL team here . Angelenos could really care less if a pro team comes to the city, there are too many other entertainment options, and the U S C Trojans are the L A football darlings who sell out the Coliseum and give los angeles fans their football fix. Plus, we can watch all the NFL games on cable with no stupid blackout restrictions that having a local NFL team would cause when we had the Rams and Raiders here.

the NFL is accustomed to running roughshod over city officials who really want and need a pro team to boost local city economies. L A city council members are for the most part idiots, but their one redeeming factor is an insistence that the NFL pay for and build its own stadium if it wants to come to Los Angeles. The NFL is already gonna reap the benefit of being in the number two media market in the country when they come to L A, we're not going to build and pay for their stadium too. The owner of Staples Center, home of the Lakers, tried to get the city to pay for the basketball venue. One heroic councilmember held up the entire project, and in the end the owner paid for his own building, the lakers had some great seasons with Shaq and kobe, and everybody lived happily ever after.

I love NFL football and would not mind a team in los angeles if it helps the situation, but i'm not for subsidizing NFL business expenditures at taxpayer expense, any more than I was willing to pay for NBA expenditures in Los Angeles.
 
good points. And it sounds like the NFL is becoming a victim of the economic mess that they invite on some local gullible and naieve municipalities who simply must have the novelty of an NFL team, at any and all costs .

Cities like los angeles frustrate the NFL because of the lack of a rabid demand for an NFL team here . Angelenos could really care less if a pro team comes to the city, there are too many other entertainment options, and the U S C Trojans are the L A football darlings who sell out the Coliseum and give los angeles fans their football fix. Plus, we can watch all the NFL games on cable with no stupid blackout restrictions that having a local NFL team would cause when we had the Rams and Raiders here.

the NFL is accustomed to running roughshod over city officials who really want and need a pro team to boost local city economies. L A city council members are for the most part idiots, but their one redeeming factor is an insistence that the NFL pay for and build its own stadium if it wants to come to Los Angeles. The NFL is already gonna reap the benefit of being in the number two media market in the country when they come to L A, we're not going to build and pay for their stadium too. The owner of Staples Center, home of the Lakers, tried to get the city to pay for the basketball venue. One heroic councilmember held up the entire project, and in the end the owner paid for his own building, the lakers had some great seasons with Shaq and kobe, and everybody lived happily ever after.

I love NFL football and would not mind a team in los angeles if it helps the situation, but i'm not for subsidizing NFL business expenditures at taxpayer expense, any more than I was willing to pay for NBA expenditures in Los Angeles.
that's a good point. even better because from what i understand the league is thinking about moving a team there, not an expansion team so you are not going to have to go through 5 years of crap just to see a competitive team. the TV market is going to demand prime time games and with a good QB to fill the stands it will be worth the money for the NFL to build its own stadium.
 
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