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Original Star Wars Rules!

blingman

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With Episode 3 less than a week away I figured I'd better watch all the Star Wars movies again to catch up. I went to the video store, only to find out that they didn't carry the original trilogy anymore. Without a second thought I swtiched on my computer and downloaded Episode 4. Watching it reminded me why I was so disapointed with the prequels so far... It is probably the greatest movie I have ever seen! Don't get me wrong Episode 3 looks thrilling, but I don't think I've ever been so captivated by a movie before.

In short, if you find yourself disapointed in the prequels go watch the originals and you'll feel much better.

(P.S. I have the orignal VHS tapes, but I just can't find them. So technically downloading them wasn't illegal)
 
I have the originals on VHS and the "improved" trilogy on dvd (it's a love/hate relationship for me).
I have been really disapointed with the prequels. I saw ep1 in the theater...bought ep2 on dvd when it came out. I will probably wait for the dvd to see ep3 or maybe I will download it (shhh!) but I am not really looking forward to it at all. The originals just have a personality that the prequels don't have. Call me a sexist but the fact that there is only 1 female lead character (and one minor one) really worked. It made the story stand on it's own without some tacked on love story.
 
Any original anything will always hold a special place that prequals never could. This is true of everything. Whats important for entertainment and sentimental value however is that one is able to take everything and accept it as is as a contribution to the series rather than a hinderance because it didn't meet our personal preferences. If all you do is complain you won't be able to truely enjoy anything.

Its easy to say how much we love the OT because of how long its been around, the time we've had to digest and accept it and grow to love it whether we grew up with it or not, how long its been marketed and what a part of pop culture that it was and is, alone. This is also true of the future. With episodes 7, 8, and 9 that will make things even more awkward for past generations with different standards, whereas a new generation will eat it up. Everyone benfits either way.

The saga is complete with episode III, but thats just the Anakin Skywalker story. Star Wars is by no means over or limited to what we've seen, and with a tv series in the works, people have yet to form any final opinions on anything. The more and more installements are made, the more and more the series grows in potential and that always stands to change our current opinions of existing installements. OT could very well be outdone sooner or later. We just don't know.

The current saga was necessarily limited to revolving around Anakin Skywalker, his fall, and the redemption of his soul later on. But future series and episodes are not so clear cut and stand to be much broader than anything we've seen thus far. I think to sum up Star Wars with just two trilogies existing and a tv series is premature. As far as episode III is concerned, alot of people are going to take back what they said because it will deliver. And as a representation of the current technology and poise of the series, its just a current sample of how intense Star Wars will become as time goes on.
 
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Richard Roper (Ebert & Roper) was on Howard Stern today and he said Revenge of the Sith is the best Star Wars movie since Empire Strikes Back.
 
I hope he's right, GH999. The other two were a disapointment, not because I am a rabid fan of the original Star Wars (Im not), but because they were simply bad movies. The story lines that didnt pertain to the whole Aniken/ObiWan thing were muddled. And...well...must I say...Jar Jar Binks? Really.
I'm hoping that since Anakin will finally turn into a baddie that this next movie will get down to the basic good vs. evil of the originals and dump the chick flick stuff. The originals jst wouldnt have the same appeal if, between blasting strom troopers and dueling with Vader, Luke Skywalker had long emotional moments with his mommy and girlfriend.
 
And yet, those things were necessary. Some just don't appriciate the fullness of his struggle as a boy, a youth and now a man (and often exagerate their complaints) and aren't seeing this saga for what it is- an emotional, psychological battle that spans the life time of this human being. Its not about lasers and wookies and democracies falling, though thats all nice and good.

I think the fan base is split. There are some that have always acknowledged Star Wars for what it is- a space opera, and there are those that want nothing but action and expect it to live up to the genre of sci-fi, which would clearly misrepresent it.

The fact it has both splits an opinion into two. There are people that NEED to be entertained on an emotional level with all the drama and such, which this movie and past movies have been full of and always deliver and identify Star Wars better than any action scene, and there are those that NEED to be entertained on a purely visual, graphical level.

Younger/impatient fans tend to need the visuals because they don't fully undestand the value of the drama, acting, and nuance of these things. They see it as boring, slow, and repetitive, even sometimes unnecessary, whereas it is the single force that carries the series along. If it didn't have the emotional urgency that it does and these things were not explained and shown, the action wouldn't matter and would not be motivated or have any momentum at all.

Older fans or ones that acknowledge the series for what it is know the value of both these these things, the action and the drama and suspense, since the two do in fact work in tandem, and so are able to enjoy the films with less complaints or scrupples.

I think the people that want the drama first and the action second are the ones that ultimately get the most out of Star Wars and are ultimately the more satisfied and content fans, since to be honest, Star Wars was never really about the Wars, now was it? It was/is about human relationships and dealing with personal struggles.

Luke is like his father. He's impatient, frustrated and in his early years and his life is going no where. All of a sudden, just like his father, his world changes drastically and he's practically thrown into a different lifestyle that is not content, peaceful, or simple like his life used to be. He looked at the stars and twin moons at night wanting more. His father was the same way.

Leia is like her mother. She's tactful, beautiful, loving and caring, blunt, but so sad and lonely. They're both faced with a hardship thats difficult to endure. Leia just as much as Padme, especially later on when her and Han marry and have children and tragedy strikes their family, friends and lives and their very marriage falls apart at one point, just like Anakin and Padme.

Star Wars is just as much a revalation of the character's problems, their 'wars' in the 'stars', than it is a militaristic battle.

How much people are willing to believe that, admit that, or grasp and love the series as that will determine the overall value of this entire series for them. There will always be those who watch these movies on a completely superficial level, and those that know there is much, much more to it. The saber battles for example, each and every single one was just as much about the emotional as it was the physical, and the ones in this movie will exemplify that even more. George Lucas is criticized far too often and not given enough dues for his work. I'm really looking forward to what comes next.
 
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And Jar Jar Binks was a success- he entertained children. That was the whole point of his creation. Its hard for mature audiances to accept such a character, but Lucas has to consider his younger fans as well. Lucas understands the plight of the more mature however, and so this character's fate is sealed in a satisfactory way which allows us to see him in a different light. If he was responsible enough to be Padme's proxy and represtentative in the senate, and consequently motioned that Palaptine be given emergency powers (something that anyone else would have motioned for anyway), then surely the character will redeem himself, perhaps even be a hero, like R2 often is. One of those unsung heros.
 
They should make a TV series based on the Jedi Knight games Kyle Kartarn is a really cool character, and giving him his own half hour show would be pretty sweet. Plus it serves as a follow up to what happened to the reamaining remnants of imperial forces that surrvived the battle of Death Star II.
 
I've already stated plenty of times that 7, 8, and 9 should follow after the Empire Rising and Dark Empire series, which continues the story past Return of the Jedi and ties up all loose ends and plays through the future of the existing characters.

A tv series is much less restrictive however. Not as grand as the movies would be though. I'd imagine it would be like Stargate SG-1 is, and leave room for multiple seasons and continuity.
 
They may flesh out the story...but as stand alone movies, judged to the same standards that you'd judge any movie against, the prequels so far have been mostly god-awful. I've seen a lot of "look how big our budget is" cgi just for it's own sake. Some of the characters (the diner owner in Epi2 comes to mind) have been cliche and downright embarrasing to watch. And then the CONSTANT coincidences to make the fanboys giddy. Oh lookie, that kid is Boba Fett. Oh amazing, Vader built c3PO as a kid. OMG a pointless cameo of Uncle Owen and Auntie whats-her-face.
I am hoping that in epi3 they finally explain why they chose to "hide" Luke from his daddy on his home planet of all places. Reeeally stealthy.
 
Its the same reason why Yoda goes to Dagobah. Yoda chooses to flea there because theres a strong darkside presense there, namely that tree that Yoda tells Luke to go into as part of his training. Yoda explains this is a strong place for the dark side, and theres a reason for that if you read into Yoda's past.

Anyways, its like a shield of anti-detection. The best place to hide is not just far away on some uninhabited planet, but to hide in the darkness. Emperor Palpatine's reach of mind is vast. He could easily detect a Force-user. But not on a planet where evil energy resides. Its less suspicious and considered less likely to be a place where a Jedi Master will hide. Yoda cannot be sensed on this planet. Thats why he chose it.

Its not exactly the same for Luke being sent back to Tatoonie, but the idea is the same- send them to the least likely place and least likely location. Its a serious gamble but it paid off.

I don't see why knowing Vader built C-3PO is annoying though, since in the ESB novel theres a scene where Vader holds 3PO's head (you know, that scene where he's blasted apart and thrown to the scrap heap on Bespin Cloud City). Before he's thrown to the garbage, Vader goes to this room and remembers his childhood and clutches the robot's head to his chest for a moment.

Of course, people who didn't know this wouldn't understand the connection of signifance by way of retrospective relevation, which makes up alot of what the prequal trilogy is, its very foreshadowing.

Owen and Beru Lars is not a pointless cameo either. It explains the connection to Ben from New Hope (where again, unless you read you wouldn't know that Ben often went to visit young Luke for short periods of time). Lucas is setting up the fact that this is where Luke will go and it is these people that he will be instrusted to. Obi-Wan Kenobi cannot do it, he has to live in seclusion because again, Palpatine may sense him otherwise, and this is now an imperial occupied planet, since by this time, the Empire's reach has gone even into the outer rim sectors.
 
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My humble opinion is that the prequels lack the fundamental character chemistry of the originals. Obviously, the expectation could never had been lived up to, and it was always going to be more flashy etc, but the plots, at least in comparison to the originals, were not actually that bad. lol I mean sit down and pick apart the plots of the originals and they are actually *incredibly* simple heh, but its not a problem because the characters were so great.
We remember: the chemistry between the two droids; between Han and Chewie (Harrison ford is *definitely* what the prequels need lol); between leia and han and luke as a triangle; between Vader and Luke; between Vader and Obi wan, if to a lesser degree.
I mean you just dont have those in the prequels (so far). Partly because Natalie portman is an abysmal actress in these movies, and she and Hayden have *no* chemistry. You got glimpses of a relationship between Qua Gon and Obi wan, but it was short lived and dissapointing. As you said Dracula, Jar jar entertained the kids, but he had no one to bounce off of effectively, as chewie/han and R2/C3PO did. There was no real chemistry between Maul and Sideus, nor between Duku and well... anyone lol. Obi wan and Anakin, well, although Ewan mcgregor acts well, there just isnt much there. They skip over the whole story between those two too much (so far), perhaps by necesity, but even so.
Also, on top of all this, you have the fact that the universe, the brilliant music, and the whole concept were new and fresh and wowed people, kind of like Lord of the Rings did as a novel. But i feel character chemistry is the main thing.
 
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Of course they lack the fundamental character of the original. No one is saying anything about this. But this whining about things that weren't bad at all to debunk the prequal isn't very sound, especially since alot of it is just opinion and not fact. The prequal doesn't have to be exactly like the original anyway, it can't be anymore. Its catering to a new generation.

The movies are just representations of the novels. Qui-Gon Jinn has a colorful past, as does Darth Maul (whom people choose to know nothing about) theres more to Jar Jar Binks than people assume, and alot of the history of these characters we barely know is there, you just have to want to be a fan enough to read through this. Only then will you appriciate their fullness and presense as characters in the movies, large or small parts. Only then will you not be inclined to dismiss them as unnecessary or bit parts of filler. Alot of these things were on the original screen play when Lucas started, he just dind't have the time to include everything.

See, the problem is that people are taking the movies at face value, as I said, on a purely visual, superifcial level when it was never about that at all. Movies can never be as discriptive as novels are. Padme and Anakin are far more romantic than the movies are allowed to show, Yoda has a rich history that no one cares to look up, as does Qui-Gon, why he chose Obi-Wan, and the struggles for Jinn even before that.

People can't appriciate these characters, what they say or do because they (so called fans) are ignorant to their (the character's) involvement and presense as a character both past, present, and future even. At the very least, they'e simply not paying attention to the fine details when they watch these movies.

Darth Sidious is arguably the most interesting character in the entire saga. Yet to most people, he's this unknown figure that says alot of cool shit and eventually whoops some ass, but thats about it. They wouldn't like him otherwise. They can't appriciate the Palpatine character in his fullness because they don't bother to know more about him or understand the level of nuance and energy he generates as a character. Its the same for every character at EVERY stage of their life.
 
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Dude, I appreciate your reply, and i understand that the story is fuller than it comes across in the movies, but you don't have to say i was whining. I was just giving my thoughts on the movies themselves and why i thought they were less popular, I never once said that the overall story sucked, or even that it was bad. I said the plots of the movies were simple, but not the whole story as an entity, so you really didn't need to put words in my mouth and get so defensive about it.
 
I wasn't talking to you or anyone specifically. Please stop assuming, because thats practically insulting me in return as if I would do that or have. Its an assumption that I have, and I don't appriciate THAT.
 
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Vladislaus Dracula said:
Of course they lack the fundamental character of the original. No one is saying anything about this. But this whining about things that weren't bad at all to debunk the prequal isn't very sound, especially since alot of it is just opinion and not fact.
I apologise; i thought this was meant as a direct reply to my post. :happy: love and peace.
P.s. lol you sound like a big fan!!
 
No problem. Its partly my fault, because sometimes I use the word "you". I don't mean you as in YOU, its you as in people, anyone. Unless I quote something, or its a direct response to someone else, its merely then a reply that includes a retort to the concern that person presented, but is itself not a retort to the person themselves.

If I had a problem with you or anyone, it wouldn't be ambiguous.

I'm also not really as big a fan as it seems. I'm just knowledgable. I try to understand as much as I can from a creative perspective in order to appriciate even more so the things I like about Star Wars, because that doesn't include everything.

I'm not too fond of the stupid looking alien creatures. Only a few have been neat I think. I'm more into the Jedi Knight/Sith orders, their philosophies, the naval warfare, and the ship designs.
 
Actually, that was pretty entertaining for me because it was dangerous. The chance of dying was very likely. One little mistake and you're dead, and then theres the others who want to bump you off.

I think the podrace scene was very fast-paced and accurate, not to mention realistic. Lucas and his staff actually studied Nascar film because they wanted to get the realism of a high-speed race as accurate and plausible as it could be for something technologically advanced.

But just as easily, I really liked when Qui-Gon used the Force to change the way the dice landed in his bet with Watto. 😀
 
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I have to agree with you, Nessonite: I was totally turned off by the fact that, from where I sat, Episodes I and II were empirically just plain bad movies: dull and lethargic, unfunny when they tried to be funny, clumsy with theme and subtext, unimaginative, and infatuated with their own technology. I can't even persuade myself to want to see the new one, I found sitting through the first two so unentertaining. Didn't have anything to do with comparing them with the original three films (though I can't help but think that in the absence of the original three films, people would be treating this trilogy with considerably less generosity and more indifference).

Others' mileage may vary, of course.
 
Ok I'm slightly curious about something. If C3P0 and R2-D2 were around during the prequels, wouldn't the names Skywalker, Kenobi, Yoda, and even Fett to a lesser degree ring some bells. And in the movies none of those characters tend to remember the droids either, not even Yoda. I realise there could most definitly be a plot hole here, but I'd like to see what a fan like Vladislaus would have to say about it.

On a completely different tangent, has anyone noticed the similarities between the prequel trilogy and nazi Germany? Think about it, A nobody (Palpetine/Hitler) becomes a politician and through some weird chain of events becomes supreme power (chancellor). He bides his time for a bit, then carries out an incredibly evil plan using autonomous troopers, resulting in the destruction of that which he hates, but at the same time is (Jews/Jedi). Pretty weird huh?
 
They were around during the prequals.What do you mean "if" they were? And they were in the originals too. So I'm not sure if you're confused or what.

Of course not everything was completely planned out the way it should have been. Obi-Wan for example wouldn't have told Luke that Yoda taught him, when it was in fact Qui-Gon Jinn. The thing that allows this to slide, however illegitamately, is that Yoda does teach all the younglings at one point. So what he said is technically true.

But what you're saying is only obvious. Its not some conspiracy or refusal to admit guilt on Lucas's part. Qui-Gon would have mentioned his former master at some point, and there are plenty other things that don't add up. These are loopholes but not bastardizations of anything. Because we're too assume they knew.

Obviously with the time differences between the years the originals were made in and the new ones, it left alot of things on the drawing board so to speak. Thats why Lucas went back to make a special addition afterall. There just wasn't any time.

See, in the case of prequals however, its not their job to explain the future. The original does that. See, the problem is though, that these were done out of order. Its just these little inconstantancies that don't add up. There was no way for him at the time, in a reversal of time line, to tell everything there was to, and so we have the loopholes. Alot of people that criticize will depend soley on this at times and claim everything is tacked on when thats simply not true of alot of things. Alot of things were already written down but because of the order he decided to do them, he had to go back and rewrite some things.

This happens in anime sometimes too. It happened with Record Of Lodoss War, for example. The original ova series follows a different path than the tv series does. The tv series contradicts some of the things that occured in the original. But see the tv series was made later because it was to be a more accurate telling of the novel than the second part of the ova series was.

Now the thing that connected them together was the events of the first half of the ova, and the beginning of the tv series, with the contradictive material of the second half of the ova being left to audiance as an alternative ending for the entire series.

In this particular case, this is how the prequal trilogy came out. Its sort of a revision of what was originally intended plot wise, but wasn't served in the right order. This both works for and against Lucas. Telling a story and then showing the past of it is very keen and unique and allows for alot of interpretive things to happen, such as foreshadowing of things we already know are going to happen.

Its not like at this point Lucas is going to go back and reshoot the original trilogy to make it completely compatible with the prequal. The OT has it's place in history and so we're not going to tamper with it beyond adding additional scenes and dialogue that couldn't be fit in the first time.

As far as the Nazi imagery and symbolism, that what Lucas himself says. That he models alot of the attitudes and uniforms of the imperials from the totalitarian regimes of history. The jews are not the jedi however, thats just wishful thinking as far as coincidence is concerned.

The Jedi represent all that is good in the galaxy. And its really about people wanting to destroy that and doing so. The Jedi represent democracy, the Sith represent facism, and dicatorship, and one Sith is about to pull a Hitler on the galaxy.
 
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I just saw Episode III last night (friend works at the movie theater so we get to see movies before they come out 😀), and I liked it. I still like the old ones better though 'cause there's something about too much computer graphics that take away the feel of the movie.
 
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Blingman said:
On a completely different tangent, has anyone noticed the similarities between the prequel trilogy and nazi Germany? Think about it, A nobody (Palpetine/Hitler) becomes a politician and through some weird chain of events becomes supreme power (chancellor). He bides his time for a bit, then carries out an incredibly evil plan using autonomous troopers, resulting in the destruction of that which he hates, but at the same time is (Jews/Jedi). Pretty weird huh?
lol people have made that association with so many popular fantasy stories. I mean, a dude who wants to create a genetic super-race and bring the entire world under one banner by force lol, sounds like a novel dont it? Hehe. Of course technically the emperor wins, which hitler didnt, although the rebels do get him back lol.
On a side note, i think It's a bit unfair to say that every German soldier at the time was autonomous; they were people and undoubtedly many of them were fighting for something or someone. I know there was a lot of propaganda and media contol in Nazi germany, but no more (and I know im kind of risking my neck by saying this, but what the hell) really than exists in many westernised countries these days. I do not mean this in a way that says we are all brainwashed people, more to say that since we are not, it means that they probably weren't in germany either. I realise i may be touching on a sensitive area for some people and i apologize if i've said anything offensive; i only wanted to express my point of view.
Personally i can't wait to see the movie :happy:
 
This will be my last post here (on TT) until Saturday, when I see it. I simply don't want to remain here and risk the chance someone spoils something further without cautioning that its spoiling material before telling all. Some things I already know, but I don't want to know anything further before Saturday. As of now no spoiler has risked any enjoyment for me, and I want to keep it that way.

Later all. See you on Sunday or Saturday night. 😀


PS:

I'd also strongly advise people that see the movie between now, saturday, or weeks from now that you don't post spoiler threads or even talk about the movie in any detail. If you have to just get the excitement out, please be vague about it or talk about it in private with your friends.

You'll be doing everyone a favor.
 
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