Religion

[Sadistictickler]

I'm an ex-muslim, atheïst since I was about 16. Why? Simply because I do not find any salvation in a religion and because I do not want to waste my precious moments on any religion. Islam is a religion like so many, based on fear to force people to donate their hard-earned money to the mosk/church. Burn in hell if you don't pray/worship, they say. God is fair, they say. Unbelievers will burn in hell, too. But how can a god be fair if unbelievers, say native americans, never had the chance to be converted? Furthermore, almost all religions have a creationistic-myth which just totally doesn't match the theory of evolution.

I've chosen atheïsm and I'm proud of it.

What's your religion and what's your motivation? Always had ur current religion or did you switch later in life?

NOTE: I've posted this in general discussion because it's the discussion behind the poll that's the important thing here, not the poll itself

 

[Haltickling]

I was raised as a Roman Catholic in a very conservative part of my country, where the village priest had absolute power over the families.

Later, when I was around 16, one of our teachers told us about the 10 proofs for God's existence by Thomas Aquinus. That was the moment when I started to think about the question for the first time in my life. I found that if there was any God, he escapes our human logic. We also read about Descartes's existentialism, and the German philosopher Karl Popper, and all that brought me to one important conclusion:

There is no logical proof for the existence or non-existence of God. Both possibilities were equally valid, but they would drastically influence my life. Additionally, there were so many different, sometimes contradicting rules in the various religions, which of them was the correct one? So many possibly wrong choices how to lead my life!

So, who am I to say one of them is the only correct one? I'm just human, and much too ignorant and unimportant to make such a far-reaching choice. I devised my own ethics, and as I gathered more experience in life, traveling to many different cultures and religions in this world, I felt that I was right.

My own set of ethics is based on what I consider positive contributions to society and mankind, based on the law, and on the principle "don't do to others what you wouldn't want to be done to yourself".

I don't deny the possible existence of a God, and I even admire those who can believe in God from their very heart. But I also found that religions have very little to do with God; they are sociological and psychological phenomenons, not spiritual ones.

Therefore I call myself an agnostic.

 

[Moses25]

I'm an ex-muslim, atheïst since I was about 16.

I'm having trouble with this statement, my friend...

I've been told, quite adamantly (is there any other way in Islam? 😛 ), that once you commit to being a Muslim, you can never leave...like the Mafia! 🙂

Now, yes, I am being facetious here. As a bona fide atheist myself, I applaud your decision to leave the clutches of religion altogether...but is there some truth in the claim that once you submit to Allah, therein you shall lie for all eternity?

Even though I don't believe, I also realize that I am a product of Islam whether I like it or not, so your "ex-muslim" assertion intrigues me.

Cheers.😀

 

[Krokus]

Nothing good can come from religion, IMO.

 

[Admiral Trouser]

I saw the thread title and thought "Here we go again...", would anyone like some popcorn for when the fireworks erupt? 😉

*sigh* Would you like my earnest thoughts on this topic, since I always seem to dally around others like it and snipe at people from the fringes? No? Tough, because I'm going for it regardless 😛


I'm...not an athiest. I beleive in God, or at least, I beleive in a creator, a thing that, if it wasn't human in nature, was at least sentient, and it had a plan. To beleive that there is no God is to say that the universe came about all by itself, and that defies logic. You all know by now, logic is like the best freind I never had, but I digress...I figure that God isn't perfect, just powerful: All notions of perfection are pretty messed up anyway, and the Christian view of a flawless God just raises up way too many contradictions, so I don't lend it any credibility when I let my mind meander upon the subject. In short, i beleive God can screw up. Furthermore, I think he already has.

Take Religeon, for example: It would work so well, and the world would be at peace, if only he'd actualy just *show-up* and let us know he's around and looking out for us. Instead, the only proof of his existance and his idealogy is contained within a volume ot texts that speak the truth in riddles at the best of times and at the worst completely fabricate that truth and twist it into vague metaphors. Case in point: Genesis.

The real problem that faces us, and religeon, is not whether what they proclaim is either true or false, because we're discussing ideals and beings here that are way out of our humble reach, but by how religeon goes around trying to convince us of one thing or the other: It has devolved into non-sensical babble, where Faith replaces all logical thought, and to question any principle that religeon happens to purport results in the same, easy answer: "It's not about proving it to be true, its all about believing it to be true in the first place. You gotta have faith."

Bullshit to faith. I want facts...hard facts that give me good answers. Faith is something we made up to justify first the things we couldn't prove but desperately wanted to, and then to justify the acts that we wanted to commit but were too afraid to rationalise properly. Acts of faith, wars of faith, faith in one's God to be the One God...all have solved one man's problem in the short-term, but been the root cause of a thousand men's strife in the long-run.

So...my thoghts on religeon? I'll beleive it if I see it.


(After-thought...this *is* a rant, but it's not directed to anyone here. If you're offended by my thoughts, please do say so, as long as its in a reasonable manner. I'll happily bash this subject about with you all into the sun goes down and my phone-line burns out 😉 )

AT

 

[Moses25]

The fact that you have the word "Trouser" in your nic bothers the living bejesus outta me. 😛 😛 😛

Good rant, AT...well-spoken.

Hopefully, this won't be a thread of fireworks (well, at least not until BigJim arrives).

Cheers.😀

 

[Admiral Trouser]

Would you preferre it if I were called "Captain Pantaloons"? Or "Major Pants"? Or how about "Feild Commander Your Momma's Knicker-bockers"?

Choose wisely, young one...

😛

AT

 

[maverick83]

None of the above. It could be argued that I am agnostic, in that I believe god may or may not exist, and accept this state of uncertainty. I hesitate to categorize myself as such, though, as what I perceive as likely is that which I have theorized...that the god defined in Christianity existed, but was not the absolute power. Rather, that this being (or race of beings) possessed mental capabilites beyond our comprehension. The limitations of our own mental capabilities prevented us from seeing any limit to the capabilities of this being/these beings, and also caused us to misinterpret alot of what was going on. As for the absolute power...sum of all matter and energy in the universe.

 

[maverick83]

To beleive that there is no God is to say that the universe came about all by itself, and that defies logic.

This then begs the question: How did God come about?

 

[sugarmouse]

i wouldnt class myself as religious but ive followed wiccan principles since i was very young🙂it just makes the best sense to me .

 

[Admiral Trouser]

"How did God come about?"

Depends how you define the word itself: To be a God is to weild supreme power over your creations for one thing, but by traditional definition of the word a God stands outside of time and space; hence his/her/it's omnipresence and the like. Once you accept that to be a given, questions about how a God came about lose there relevance...they always were, always are and always will be.

AT

 

[the_Baron]

AT -

for the people of the first century, they felt and experienced God in their midst - exactly what you ask for. He doesn't have to come every month or decade or such if He chooses not to - He's left the record in the Bible for future generations. and the earlier folks who lived and died for Christ just after His resurrection also testify to that real experience.

we see "imperfection" about us constantly, in the form of injustice and blatent evil. this is the result of a fallen creation. perfection and holiness will be revealed with the new Heaven and earth, after the judgement.

as for the original question by our friend from holland: i was jewish, but by Grace came to Christ. His story and experiences fulfill my jewish beliefs, and express God's love for us and His keeping of the covenants.

 

[Deleted member 2452]

very well said a.t.

i really liked your first post in this thread. i found myself agreeing with you near about 100%.
i am jewish, can't consive of being anything else. i would have to give up thinking to accept christianity. (sorry, sorry, that was not ment as an insult to any christians here!) (it's just that my entire thought process tells me christians have it wrong.)
i also am something of an agnostic. it's kind of screwy, i believe in a higher being, and he gave us life. but i think that's where he ends his involvment. i believe in re-incarnation. i also just don't understand how a supreme being, powerfull enough to create all of this, didn't think to put in some safe guards, for those pesky irritants, like war, famine, predjudice, religion, etc.
if i ever meet him, i'll have to ask him.

steve

 

[Admiral Trouser]

Thanks Steve 🙂

But...you only like my *first* post? But I've made so many!! 😛

Baron:

Hmmm. The bible. Yes. Again, belief in what the bible, or any religeos text says, is purely dependant upon the reader's faith, which was pre-established prior to reading it in the first place. It strikes me as wholly circular. 'Though I have no doubt that its authors, or at least the majority of them, had an adamant belief in what they were writing about, the same too could be said about Nostradamus and his literature also, and *his* predictions about the future of mankind are taken with a pinch of salt to say the least. So why do we treat another peice of literature with such reverance? Is it because so many believe in it already? Perhaps...I honestly don't know.

On my most cynical days I feel that its a con trick: A well-told tale that neatly patches up those realms of knowledge that we either do not understand fully or find too vague to properly explore, and yet we yearn for those realms none the less, because we feel that they hold some key to who we are and what we're supposed to do with our lives: Relegeon gives us the answers to that, and to be honest, they're easy ones that we could have figured out for ourselves...no religeon should lay claim to the ideal of kindness and love to your fellow man, because the majority of us hold that principle dear to ourselves already, from birth. We don't *need* religeon: It's purpose as a comfort blanket for the earlier times of man have passed, and finaly we can find out the truths of this world and ourselves through either science or philosophy. Theology, not History, is defunct.

But that's on my more cynical days.

Steve, I once pondered about the "question of Evil" problem, and it got to me so much I actualy *asked* someone better than me at this (not hard), and I was pleased with his answer: He told me to think of God as a chess-player, the best of them all: He sees all of the peices, sets them all up and makes his own moves when it's his time to do so, and he even knows what moves *you're* going to make, before you've actualy done it. He knows all the possible outcomes of the game...but for all that, he still lets *you* move *your* peices...and make your own mistakes.

I liked that.

AT

 

[crydun]

AT -

for the people of the first century, they felt and experienced God in their midst - exactly what you ask for. He doesn't have to come every month or decade or such if He chooses not to - He's left the record in the Bible for future generations. and the earlier folks who lived and died for Christ just after His resurrection also testify to that real experience.

we see "imperfection" about us constantly, in the form of injustice and blatent evil. this is the result of a fallen creation. perfection and holiness will be revealed with the new Heaven and earth, after the judgement.

as for the original question by our friend from holland: i was jewish, but by Grace came to Christ. His story and experiences fulfill my jewish beliefs, and express God's love for us and His keeping of the covenants.

I agree Brad and I'm sooo glad that you made that choice to come to Christ!!

 

[Sadistictickler]

Re: Re: Religion

I'm having trouble with this statement, my friend...

I've been told, quite adamantly (is there any other way in Islam? 😛 ), that once you commit to being a Muslim, you can never leave...like the Mafia! 🙂

Now, yes, I am being facetious here. As a bona fide atheist myself, I applaud your decision to leave the clutches of religion altogether...but is there some truth in the claim that once you submit to Allah, therein you shall lie for all eternity?

Even though I don't believe, I also realize that I am a product of Islam whether I like it or not, so your "ex-muslim" assertion intrigues me.

Cheers.😀

Yes, I am aware of that fact. Just bear in mind that this blabla is put up by religious muslims and that there actually are drop-outs like myself, and I am not a product of Islam anymore. The basics of my thoughts have been affected, yes, but I've spent some valuable time sorting things out for myself, getting rid of the moral values that do not match my very personl philosophical view on the world as it is today (I think everybody has such a view) and my view on how I should live my life. The idea of "being bound to the way of Allah for the rest of your life" rests in the influence Islam has on your own moral and ethical thoughts in my opinion, and in my case that influence has diminished.

 

[crydun]

As for myself, I was raised Fundamentalist and transferred to Church of the Bretheren in 2001. However, I do not hold alliances nor am I against any denomination as long as Christ is the center. because, at the end of the day, that's what I have: a personal relationship with Jesus Christ, my Savior and Friend, who laid down His life for me... and for you. It's your choice whether you accept it or not.

"For Greater Love Hath no man than he who would lay down his life for his friends."

 

[Sadistictickler]

Are there any people here not a part of the 3 monotheïstic religions?

 

[Shem the Penman]

I used to be a Catholic, but I gave it up for Lent. Now I'm a part-time Discordian, which of course is the only way to be a Discordian. Hail Eris!

 

[Sadistictickler]

Can you explain what's it like to be a discordian? I kinda never heard of it you see...

 

[MrMacphisto]

obscure RPG reference

um... in terms of Vampire the Masquerade, Shem would definitely be a Malkavian...

 

[Shem the Penman]

And here I always thought of myself as a Nosferatu.

Anyway, Discordianism is the worship (sort of) of the Greek goddess of chaos, Eris. Follow the link in my earlier post -- it'll explain things much worse than I could.

 

[Sadistictickler]

Ah yes, Greek mythology, something that does sound familiar 🙂

what's it in Eris then that gives you spiritual satisfaction?

 

[nosforatiop]

Hello,
My answer to this is an odd one. If one were to label me I guess you would call me a Christian Universalist. To be blunt (but I can't really, I gave up smoking weed yesterday), I don't believe God sends anyone to hell, I believe Jesus Christ is the salvation of ALL humankind even the HItlers and Saddams, not to say there aren't consequences for our actions, I think there are and we all pay for our own actions. I don't particularly want to get specific about how I back this up because I'll be typing in this thread for years to come arguing with everyone Christian, Atheist, and what have you about how I back this up and I really don't have the time and energy to devote to such a cluster(insert four letter word hear). If you would like the specifics go here:www.tentmaker.org

I hate the word religion, it conjures up images of someone ripping off a group of zombies hypnotized by piano music while putting on a theatrical performance, that's not what I'm about. Yeah I follow a set of rules and regulations, the first and foremost being to "love one another as I have loved you". No I don't think the bible is infallible, but I do believe that it is divinley inspired and a tool to understand my maker. A discipline in spirtituality, love, and life much like martial arts is a discipline in defense, spirituality, and physical well being. Yes I follow a discipline...and it's called religion because the name of a deity is involved, a deity of pure love. And I will say this: It's the only thing that's kept me alive.