Remembering Auschwitz-Birkenau: has anything changed??

[chickles_:)]

Hi all,
This past week the world remembered the liberation of one of the most notorious death camps in WWII. It really got me thinking. Having recently seen that documentary "Dance With the Devil" - the gripping investigative account of the terrible genocide in Rwanda (no, i'm not talking about "Hotel Rwanda" the hollywood film) I couldn't help wondering whether the world has changed much.

I read in the paper about a woman who's father had been a commandant in one such camp and she wondered whether she had the same genes.
That scared me.

Not because i think she might - But rather that we might actually think that only certain few people have the "bad gene" while the rest of us blissfully imagine we're immune -and therefore fail to see the signs that we could all become just as messed up.

Anyway, enough from me. What do all of you think?

Have we learned anything? Is the world more able to avoid overriding our basic human rights for some supposed national security cause - as was the rationale in pre-war Germany?
I really wonder.

Many blessings,
Chickles_🙂

 

[featherfingers]

I used to work for a coffee delivery service. The boss was driving the company truck and I was in the passenger seat. As we were traveling, there was a couple walking down the street... a black man holding hands with a white woman. My boss asked, "What do you think of that?" After I told him that a few of my family members are in mixed marriages and that I think it's great, he shut up. I spent the rest of the trip wondering if I really wanted to work for a guy like that. After he made an insulting remark about a potential new employee, I grabbed my things and quit that job.

 

[chickles_:)]

As we were traveling, there was a couple walking down the street... a black man holding hands with a white woman. My boss asked, "What do you think of that?

Wow! You know, i get to thinking sometimes, being non-white, that maybe things have really improved (usually this happens after a couple cups of espresso) then something comes along that shatters my illusions. I'm just grateful to guys like you F-F who dare to show it's possible to let the colours blur.

It's not that i don't think we should appreciate our own heritages it's just that we also need to appreciate others' heritages.

It sounds like old news to say that, but your experience -and mine too- reveal that it's still not getting out there enough.

I hope the job you found afterthat proved a better experience.

You deserve it, Featherfingers!! 🙂 :kiss2:

Oh BTW, I made a mistake with the title of the documentary. it should have read "Shake Hands With the Devil"

What about everyone else?

Many blessings,
Chickles_🙂

 

[ElectricEye72]

HMMMMM! Auschwitz-Birkenau has anything changed? Interesting esoteric question. I definitely have some thoughts about it. But Ah Ah! Im not answering any strong political questions only to have the hate mail generated towards me like the infamous "Prince William Wears Nazi Uniform" thread! No way Jose! Im sorry poster of this thread ,nothing personal toward you its just that the users of this site are far too immature and insecure to be able to hear a mans honest opinion. So smile and never let em know what youre thinking! 😀

 

[drew70]

I used to work for a coffee delivery service. The boss was driving the company truck and I was in the passenger seat. As we were traveling, there was a couple walking down the street... a black man holding hands with a white woman. My boss asked, "What do you think of that?" After I told him that a few of my family members are in mixed marriages and that I think it's great, he shut up. I spent the rest of the trip wondering if I really wanted to work for a guy like that...

So let me see if I understand this. Your boss expressed no feelings one way or another of the interracial couple. He just asked you what you thought of it. And because he did, you wondered if you still wanted to work for him? My god, have we become so zealous in striving for political correctness that we're ready to lynch anybody who so much as notices a difference in the ethnicities of a random couple?? Please tell me I'm missing something here.

 

[ElectricEye72]

Ahem!

See what I mean? (Look Above!)😉

 

[featherfingers]

So let me see if I understand this. Your boss expressed no feelings one way or another of the interracial couple. He just asked you what you thought of it. And because he did, you wondered if you still wanted to work for him? My god, have we become so zealous in striving for political correctness that we're ready to lynch anybody who so much as notices a difference in the ethnicities of a random couple?? Please tell me I'm missing something here.

If you knew this person, you'd have heard the sarcasm in his voice. He was a very pompous and arrogant person. I dreaded being in the same truck with him because of his attitude. The tone of his voice was enough to tell me he found displeasure in seeing this interracial couple together. He berated his employees (mostly Mexican people) in front of others. He had me dig through a pile of garbage because he dropped a quarter in it and wanted it back. He was simply a mean man. I'm sorry if I didn't make that clear right from the start.

 

[featherfingers]

As we were traveling, there was a couple walking down the street... a black man holding hands with a white woman. My boss asked, "What do you think of that?

Wow! You know, i get to thinking sometimes, being non-white, that maybe things have really improved (usually this happens after a couple cups of espresso) then something comes along that shatters my illusions. I'm just grateful to guys like you F-F who dare to show it's possible to let the colours blur.

It's not that i don't think we should appreciate our own heritages it's just that we also need to appreciate others' heritages.

It sounds like old news to say that, but your experience -and mine too- reveal that it's still not getting out there enough.

I hope the job you found afterthat proved a better experience.

You deserve it, Featherfingers!! 🙂 :kiss2:

Oh BTW, I made a mistake with the title of the documentary. it should have read "Shake Hands With the Devil"

What about everyone else?

Many blessings,
Chickles_🙂

The day that I quit that job was a day or two after my reflexology certificate arrived in the mail. One door closed and another one opened.

Thank you for your kind words, Chickles. I've always loved Martin Luther King, Jr. and I hope that someday we will see his dream realized.

 

[drew70]

Fingers, now that you've explained it further I understand and agree. I'm also breathing a big sigh of relief. From the original wording it read like all he did was ask you what you thought of the interracial couple. Now I understand that he was indeed expressing his own disapproval.

Electric Eye, if my objection offended you, perhaps you might take a look at your own levels of maturity and security. Just a thought.

 

[featherfingers]

Fingers, now that you've explained it further I understand and agree. I'm also breathing a big sigh of relief. From the original wording it read like all he did was ask you what you thought of the interracial couple. Now I understand that he was indeed expressing his own disapproval.

Drew, I knew when I wrote that first post that something was missing, but I submitted it 'as is' anyway. I needed to get all of that off my chest and I was in a bit of a rush. I'm glad we're on the same page now, so to speak.

If you're wondering why I stayed so long on the job despite the poor treatment... I had such low self esteem back then... thank goodness I left when I did or I'd be a real space cadet today.

 

[Knox The Hatter]

I think a good question is, "can I have worn the uniform, and have done all those atrocious things, things that were fashioned down to a science?"

I already know the answer for me. Someone else might answer differently, and with enthusiasm.

No one's learned anything. When you have internecine hatreds like they do in the Balkans and in Africa, nothing matters, save that you got your opportunity to systematically rape and possibly murder some female prisoner today. Or a child.

Pretty much tells you what kind of a world we live in.

 

[featherfingers]

Pretty much tells you what kind of a world we live in.

I have a friend whose father was the only one in his family to escape from a concentration camp. He lost a lot of family and friends. Years later, he became owner of a successful bar here in Tucson. While getting ready to make a deposit, he was confronted by a thug and shot to death. My friend told me something to the effect of, "they got him one way or the other."

The more things change, the more they stay the same, or so it's been said. Each one of us needs to make a change for the positive. No one else can do it for us, and it's very difficult or downright impossible to change others... I remember being told, "When you grow up the world will be a much better place." What do we tell the children in our lives today?

 

[chickles_:)]

Wow, some really good thoughts!
Thanks, everyone, for sharing on this ever timely topic.

It's true about not always getting the full intent of what someone means just though the screen print. I've sure discovered that on many occasions what appears on the screen often gets misinterpreted because it lacks the nuances of direct conversation - to say nothing of body language.

But back to the subject at hand.
I'm inclined to think that only as we keep these questions before us can we avoid slipping back down that icy slope to complacent injustice, whether it's racism or sexism or whatever.

It is uncomfortable being challenged to confront the question that Knox the Hatter poses: "Could I have done it?"
It's kind of like seeing the emaciated pix of the world poor on T.V. It hurts. It makes me question my lifestyle and my presuppositions about myself. But only in looking hard at where i am, can i really keep out of the muck.

Does that make sense?

Once again thanks for sharing, everyone!

Many blessings,
Chickles_🙂

 

[ElectricEye72]

Taking Drews Advice

Drew, I did take a look at my levels of both security and maturity especially when you brought up historical figures like Martin Luther King. Anyway after examining them intensely as per your suggestion....I farted! Yeah, it was one of those loud gurgeling ones! I feel better now, thanks Drew!😀

 

[drew70]

Drew, I did take a look at my levels of both security and maturity especially when you brought up historical figures like Martin Luther King.

I don't recall mentioning anything about Martin Luther King. Better have another look, pal. 😉

Anyway after examining them intensely as per your suggestion....I farted! Yeah, it was one of those loud gurgeling ones! I feel better now, thanks Drew!

Hey, don't mention it. I wondered what that was. I mean your voice had changed but your breath smelled the same.

 

[AquaFeline]

Who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of men?

The icy slope towards complacent injustice is very slippery indeed.

This thread reminds me of a radio show I was listening to about child soldiers. The militia would essentially force the children to join either by kidnapping them or making them kill someone else to keep from getting killed themselves, then brand them in some way so that they couldn't leave without sticking out like a sore thumb. The militia sometimes also drugged the children.

I am also reminded of these psychological experiments: http://www.new-life.net/milgram.htm
http://psychology.about.com/library/weekly/aa060100b.htm

 

[WorkInProgress]

Has anything changed? Lots has changed. Lots more will never change.

Let me address the subject of race in America. As recently as 50 years ago, a huge chunk of the white population, and not just in the South, was openly defending a race-based caste system, and it was perfectly safe for politicians and other pubic figures to be overtly racist. It was also very unsafe for a black man and a white woman to be seen holding hands. Today? Mixed scorecard. Discrimination is still pervasive enough to have an impact, but it exists in pockets (though I do mean a lot of pockets and some large ones) rather than existing everywhere. There's still a long way to go.

And on the subject of genocide, let me offer this point: The human race is the human race. The average human wants some kind of superior status, and is prone to view others as inferior by virtue of their being different. That doesn't mean the average human automatically wants to murder everybody in sight who is different, but the average human will, in time of panic and despair (as in a major economic depression) have some vulnerability to listening to a demagogue who seeks to explain the source of panic and despair with a scapegoat. And I can't tell you how many people I've heard suggest that America should avenge 9/11 by going on a rampage against Muslems around the world. (And yes, I am comparing that with Naziism, explicitly.)

All we can do is cleave to our own beliefs and make what difference we can in our little corner of the world. But the human race is the human race, and that's not a compliment.

 

[ElectricEye72]

Not Bad Drew!

LMAO!!!! Good one Drew! Im serious! Even I got a laugh out your comment to me. Might I suggest you go to the "Now its Official im a Southern Boy" thread because theres an ex-NFLer/special forces soldier who just bought a mountainside mansion who could use some help.😀

 

[Neutron]

Re: Not Bad Drew!

LMAO!!!! Good one Drew! Im serious! Even I got a laugh out your comment to me. Might I suggest you go to the "Now its Official im a Southern Boy" thread because theres an ex-NFLer/special forces soldier who just bought a mountainside mansion who could use some help.😀

Right Benedict.

Tron

 

[Neutron]

Uh..

Wrong to an extent. The Germans weren't committing Genocide for National Security, it was done as a result of pure racial hatred by a madman.

As for a "gene" I doubt it. If so a lot of good German people have that gene. Given the times, and the terrible depression the German people had just gone through it's easy to see how they came under the spell of a madman. It certainly wasn't genetic.

Tron

 

[WorkInProgress]

Indeed the Germans weren't genetically any different. Humans, especially in time of crisis, are generally a very receptive market to the notion that they belong to a superior race, have been victimized by their inferior enemies, and should elect the leaders who are going to restore them to their rightful glory by vanquishing those enemies. This is why, in my opinion, we should be on guard against strident nationalism in general, especially in ourselves (which is all we really have any control over), because it's a slippery slope from believing we're special to believing that others are inferior to believing that we have the right to kill them.

 

[Strider]

There's been numerous mass slaughters that would qualify as genocides since the end of WW2.And in most of them the rest of the world seemed to look the other way.It seems to be happening in Sudan at the moment.So I don't know if anything's changed.