RenFaire Tickling Video... Utterly Wrong?

[Azrael]

(Disclaimer)

Some of you may be familiar with some of my previous rantings and ravings. Please be apprised, in any event, that I am once again going to be posting in an opinionated and self-righteous manner about something within the tickling community that I find grossly offensive.

I don't think my sense of morality is honestly all that far off; nevertheless, if you feel that you might be offended by what is to follow, please feel free not to read the remainder of this post 🙂

(/Disclaimer)

I was browsing the internet the other day, looking for information on one of the local Renaissance Faires; one of my housemates has just come into a modest inheritance, and he's thinking about putting a down payment on a house and setting up shop at a renfaire baking time-period-accurate breads for sale (to the general public, and to the other vendors). So, I was trying to help him out.

I was relatively surprised when one of my searches (which had nothing to do with tickling) listed the TickleTown website (albeit several pages in). When I clicked on the link, out of curiosity, it brought up a page advertising the sale-for-profit of a tickling video comprised entirely of footage of women getting tickled in the stocks at some RenFaire(s).

These women... are typically cajoled and coerced into the stocks. Often, the same methods are employed to get a brief tickle... if any permission is even asked for at all. Not all of them are 18 or older; I had a girlfriend wind up in the stocks when she was 16. Even assuming they are willing... these are not tickling fetishists, or porn stars. They are not signing on to make a tickling video. I seriously doubt permission was asked of each person appearing in this composite video, regarding said appearance; I'd be surprised if they were even informed at all, and you can't tell me that whoever is making this video is tracking down each individual wherever-they-might-be to give them a cut.

If I'm wrong about all of this, I seriously apologize, but as appearances are, it cries a bit of foul. I'd be seriously put out to find my 16-year-old ex's footage on this thing, for tickling fetishists everywhere to whip it out and get their jollies off on. There are hundreds, if not thousands of quality tickling videos, including ones with Renaissance-style plots in them, which involve willing, age-verified and paid tickling models (who are, in fact, genuinely ticklish).

And that brings up another beef... www.footparadise.com's new selection of 'tickle slave' videos, the original creator of which swears up and down that they were entirely unwilling and unknowing ticklees. Am I the only one drawing a comparison to rape videos, here? What about marketing videos of children from China being tortured in sweatshops to BDSM enthusiasts?

It's no wonder tickling fetishists have a bad reputation. Most people don't like to be tickled... and that gets thrown right in their faces with videos like this. Let's face it; tickling is an unpleasant and difficult-to-endure sensation. Even WE usually need to employ restraints, and we enjoy it... there's no reason everyone should have to. If you like the idea of an unwilling person being tortured, that's fine... but keep it to your freakin' self!

Just had to rant a bit. Thanks for bearing with me.

 

[TickledToDeath]

Personally and I may be wrong but all of the so called non consensual tickle videos are not truly NON Consensual. Tis just an advertising ploy for sales and the imagination/fantasy of the viewer.
The Renfaire vids, well they are another story as yes, passerbys are placed in stocks and tickled. Chances are they did not give written permission before hand but they may still have known what was to take place.
While it may appear as a "rape" style situation to the naked eye, trust me, I seriously doubt it.

TTD

 

[asutickler]

EXCELLENT post, I agree 100%.

 

[morgandavis]

aha deadpool

 

[TicklishSinner]

I agree with TTD, if it were true non consensual couldnt they sue if they ever saw the videos??

 

[EvlJester]

I am going to agree with ttd and smurfy on this one too.

 

[TummyDragon]

As far a nonconsensual videos.. uh, no... just like TTD and TS have mentioned, it's a marketing ploy. The majority market of tickling fantasies involve nonconsensual tickling of extremely ticklish victims being tickled to extremes of maniacal insanity, etc, etc.

The makers of fetish material simply cater to this large market. I suppose there could be a tickling fetish company somewhere in the world selling black market tickle torture vids, but I've yet to see one. All the videos begin with the standard disclaimer "model.. actors.. over 18.. information of file.. blah blah blah.."

Of course the video producer is going to CLAIM the video is whatever the market wants it to be, just like the car salesman is going to CLAIM anything under the sun to get you to purchase the automibile.


As far as the Renfaire tapes.. I really just don't have a clue so I can't even comment. The only renfaire specific stuff I've ever seen was some pictures years ago on the ASFT newsgroup.

 

[Knox The Hatter]

I think I can tell whether the person in the stocks is having a good time or not...and if he or she isn't...well, looks like you got a case. But, if he or she is...

 

[asutickler]

I think I can tell whether the person in the stocks is having a good time or not...and if he or she isn't...well, looks like you got a case. But, if he or she is...

If he or she is, they still never signed up to have footage of themselves in the aforementioned situation distributed worldwide as jack-off material...

 

[Armpit_licker]

Azrael, with all due respect, you are looking into this wayyyy too much...... Seriously, it's innocent fun.. The girls are willing to be tickled in the stocks at the fairs. They also see a camera on them videotaping them the entire time. If they have a problem with it then they wouldn't go into the stocks. Anything can be(and I quote you) "used for jackoff material" if you think about it.... Everyone has there own little fetish and this here is no big deal like you make it out to be. Just my two cents.

 

[TummyDragon]

...The girls are willing to be tickled in the stocks at the fairs. They also see a camera on them videotaping them the entire time. If they have a problem with it then they wouldn't go into the stocks.

I was wondering about that myself. I still haven't seen one of these videos, but, I have been to renfaires and I couldn't/can't understand how any woman could be put into the stocks against her will. Everyone who participates does so willingly. Plus, I am *sure* anyone with ticklish feet would immediately think "my god, they will probably take my shoes off... and then I'd be barefoot.. and anyone could tickle me to death... I'm not going in THERE"

Anything can be(and I quote you) "used for jackoff material" if you think about it.... Everyone has there own little fetish and this here is no big deal like you make it out to be. Just my two cents.

I agree that everything has the potential to be used for fantasy enhancement, for somebody somewhere. The thing here though is that these clips are being marketed directly to fetishists as fetish material as opposed to John Doe with his inflatable animal fetish happening to do a search on Inflatable Sheep and being directed to a site where the pictures of his fantasy partners for the next three weeks happen to be located. Though, it's also a good bet there's an Inflatable Sheep Fetish Forum somewhere in the world putting up links to those same pictures.

So, is it okay to take a video at the Toys R US Inflatable Sheep Regional Sales Convention where everyone sees the camera, knows he/she is being taped (so may even act a bit goofy with the Inflatable Sheep Samples), and then sell the clips back at the Inflatable Sheep Fetish Forum without the knowledge or consent of those playing with the Sheep?

Baaaaaaaaaaack to the taaaaaapic. If those people have *no* clue that their images are being sold, then I think that does raise valid questions/concerns.

 

[drew70]

No offense Azreal, but I think you are way over-reacting. When you refer to tickling as rape, it sounds like one of those ambulance chasing lawyers spinning the truth to stir up controversy. Next thing you know, undressing a woman with your eyes will be considered a form of rape.

So, is it okay to take a video at the Toys R US Inflatable Sheep Regional Sales Convention where everyone sees the camera, knows he/she is being taped (so may even act a bit goofy with the Inflatable Sheep Samples), and then sell the clips back at the Inflatable Sheep Fetish Forum without the knowledge or consent of those playing with the Sheep?

Absolutely it is. The people don't even have to know. As long as contractual agreements are met, those tapes can be sold to anybody who wants them. What you are in effect suggesting is that such tapes can be sold to anybody except those who really like them a lot.

 

[KoocheeKoo]

(Disclaimer)

Some of you may be familiar with some of my previous rantings and ravings. Please be apprised, in any event, that I am once again going to be posting in an opinionated and self-righteous manner about something within the tickling community that I find grossly offensive.

I don't think my sense of morality is honestly all that far off; nevertheless, if you feel that you might be offended by what is to follow, please feel free not to read the remainder of this post 🙂

(/Disclaimer)

I was browsing the internet the other day, looking for information on one of the local Renaissance Faires; one of my housemates has just come into a modest inheritance, and he's thinking about putting a down payment on a house and setting up shop at a renfaire baking time-period-accurate breads for sale (to the general public, and to the other vendors). So, I was trying to help him out.

I was relatively surprised when one of my searches (which had nothing to do with tickling) listed the TickleTown website (albeit several pages in). When I clicked on the link, out of curiosity, it brought up a page advertising the sale-for-profit of a tickling video comprised entirely of footage of women getting tickled in the stocks at some RenFaire(s).

These women... are typically cajoled and coerced into the stocks. Often, the same methods are employed to get a brief tickle... if any permission is even asked for at all. Not all of them are 18 or older; I had a girlfriend wind up in the stocks when she was 16. Even assuming they are willing... these are not tickling fetishists, or porn stars. They are not signing on to make a tickling video. I seriously doubt permission was asked of each person appearing in this composite video, regarding said appearance; I'd be surprised if they were even informed at all, and you can't tell me that whoever is making this video is tracking down each individual wherever-they-might-be to give them a cut.

If I'm wrong about all of this, I seriously apologize, but as appearances are, it cries a bit of foul. I'd be seriously put out to find my 16-year-old ex's footage on this thing, for tickling fetishists everywhere to whip it out and get their jollies off on. There are hundreds, if not thousands of quality tickling videos, including ones with Renaissance-style plots in them, which involve willing, age-verified and paid tickling models (who are, in fact, genuinely ticklish).

And that brings up another beef... www.footparadise.com's new selection of 'tickle slave' videos, the original creator of which swears up and down that they were entirely unwilling and unknowing ticklees. Am I the only one drawing a comparison to rape videos, here? What about marketing videos of children from China being tortured in sweatshops to BDSM enthusiasts?

It's no wonder tickling fetishists have a bad reputation. Most people don't like to be tickled... and that gets thrown right in their faces with videos like this. Let's face it; tickling is an unpleasant and difficult-to-endure sensation. Even WE usually need to employ restraints, and we enjoy it... there's no reason everyone should have to. If you like the idea of an unwilling person being tortured, that's fine... but keep it to your freakin' self!

Just had to rant a bit. Thanks for bearing with me.

You just hit upon the major reason I've never purchased a tickling video in my life, and honestly have no plans too.

While some (in my opinion most) tickling video companies are above board and would never abuse, mislead, or torture a young woman against her will....I see too many stories on the news nowadays, read too many on the internet where young women, teenage girls, even children are mistreated....sometimes tricked into making porno or similar videos to make a buck; stories where trusted teachers are arrested for coercing/ tricking/ forcing their own students into participating in illicit "kiddie porno" videos or photos online.

I don't want to purchase a couple erotic tickling vids and learn to my horror someday those girls being tickletortured while bound and helpless were either underage...tortured against their will.....or both 🙁

 

[some1somewhere]

I purchased the orginal nonconsensual by paradise video a number of years ago. Whether it was fake or not (and the cutting of the video lead me to believe that it was fake), it was not pleasurable to watch, closer to sicking. It seemed fake but the idea bothered me. I am ashamed that I purchased it. I fear for the day, and what it would do the public perception of this "lifestyle," if some video producer actually does a nonconsensual video and it goes horribly wrong.

As for the Renfaire videos, I must admit I find them quite adoreable, because the reactions are unscripted and these are just "regular" folks. I would assume that there is a sign with a disclaimer that notes that these "events" are taped. The guy holding the camera, seems to be out in the open and looks to be easily seen. If there is not a disclaimer posted or something signed, then this doesn't justify it. Whether they are in legal trouble really depends on country of orgination, as they seem be in a foreign nation (it seems the be Italy) and I am not aware of the law there. Morally, unless there is a disclaimer availible, it is on shaky ground especially since there is profit made on it.

Does that make sense at all?

 

[TummyDragon]

What you are in effect suggesting is that such tapes can be sold to anybody except those who really like them a lot.

Point taken. Personally, I am the last person who would be in a position "throw the first stone" at anyone's morality, etc. In fact, I see nothing wrong with the renfaire clips. Here's the thing as I see it though... following the logic presented, someone could videotape a kid's swimming pool party, and then sell the clips on a fetish site. Is the line simply drawn at age 18? Or does a line exist at all? If the people who are involved are not aware that the clips of them are to be sold, and do not have to be made aware, it seems to me there is an exploitation regardless of age.

I'm not implying that tickling fetishists equate to pedophiles, I'm just continuing the discussion.

 

[vegasfootboy]

opinion

i wont address the age thing i just dont wanna go there,, even though theres no nudity in those films at the fairs,, ive seen many of those clips,, i know the difference between unwilling ticklees and willing,,the ones that dont want to be tickled make that very very very apparent! angry screaming yelling with an expression that says exactly what they feel and thats " hey! asshole! stop it now! "no way anyone would exploit that,, ( i would hope ) but thats not what you see,, you see laughter and smiles and playfull pleading,, the eyes and face and tone saying " omg! im so ticklish! they look like they are having fun even though they are a tad embarassed at the public nature of the tickling,, but nothing like heated anger,, nothing like that,, as far as the consent? well i do now that if you film people and turn around and sell the images for money that you must have a consent form signed by the person whos image is being used,, seems pretty standard,, as far as rape? i dont think so,, what do these girls think is going to happen in the stocks? are they so absolutely unaware that something is going to happen to them? are they climbing into the stocks barefoot thinking la,, la ,, llalallala,, im barefoot locked into this contraption and im sure nothing will happen? come on dude,, if someone asked a person to take off thier shoes and socks and then be locked in a set of stocks with thier naked tender soles facing straight out at a crowd of people do they really think noone will do something to thier feet? hmmmmmm?? who knows?? and as for a younger person,, tickling is still tickling,, its still considered by vanilla society as a quirky and fun thing,, if a kid were in the stocks and was tickled and immediately had a bad reaction im sure they would be let out immediately! we have all seen kids that react badly to tickling,, even if they laugh they look like they are in pain! face red with anger and fear! no idiot would leave a kid in the stocks or even cajole them into getting in in the first place if the kid was scared or not interested,,, " unless of course it was michael jackson and his kid " lol!

 

[chrisheaven]

where's my nearest fair?

 

[Em Es]

What's the law say? Is there a law? Any lawyers out there?

I assume because the RenFaires are public places, if you don't want to wind up in someone's pictures or videotapes, don't attend the event.

However, if the filmmakers are selling images of someone tickling you, it would seem to me they should require your consent, whether or not that includes payment for your troubles.

But I'm just a layman. Anyone with legal knowledge care to comment?

 

[Candlewicke]

Re: What's the law say?

However, if the filmmakers are selling images of someone tickling you, it would seem to me they should require your consent...

These filmakers are required by law to have the participating womens' signatures on a contract called a Model Release.

BUT, unless someone cares enough to prosecute them or sue them there will be no consequences; the filmakers are banking on the fact that no one will.

Candlewicke

 

[Hosetickler23]

Being a part time actor I've read my contracts one of the key things is that once you sign a you give consent to have your image, likeness, voice, ect to be used for Advertising, future sales, or any sales associated with non film related material. But with a contract the Producers are protected from being sued for the Above mention reasons.... Without a contract the Person(s) used in the movie does not give consent unless a garuntee is made at which time a verbal contract is implied and theirfor a contract does exsist. Without a contract or consent ther person can claim Sexual assult or Assult or gratification

 

[Lost_My_Mind]

If a renfair tickle session is taped, it is a public place, therefore (in the united states anyways) it IS legal to video tape and even use the footage for sale and profit. What you cant do however is use the images as marketing to advertise your product. This also means they cant be used in photos on the cover of the video. I know this because i'm planning on doing a public acess show soon and i video tape people all the time, dont get their permission, and broadcast it on tv......however if i ever make a dvd i couldnt use their face to advertise it, or advertise the show.


Now then, keep in mind that most of these clips the ticklee is seemingly speaking itialian as their first language. The fact that it is in 99% of the renfair videos would lead you to believe that these clips were filmed overseas.

For that we'd need to know which country they are in, and which laws apply. Then we'd need to know which treatys the us has signed vetoing their laws here.

The reason for this, is, if anyone visits a foregn country and breaks that lands law, if the law he broke is legal in his homeland, he cannot be tried for any crime. The exeption is, if both countrys have signed a treaty saying that it would still be illigal here.


Case in point: Bondage films are illegal in the USA, however there are legal ion china. There is no treaty between the two nations outlawing chineese people from setting up websites using english language, basing them out of china and selling americans import bondage videos.

BUT

There IS a treaty between the two nations saying that people under the age of 18 cannot be sold in sexually suggestive material.


So, they can sell their bondage movies as imports, but not bondage movies with girls under 18.




There's all sorts of loopholes to laws! Infact, you can buy a pack of pens, buy front row tickets to a popular event in your area, wait till it sells out, and sell people on the street a pen, this ordinary bic pen that cost 5 cents will go for 70 or 80 dollars, and with it they get a free ticket to the event.

Your not scalping because scalping is selling tickets and jacking up the price. YOU are selling pens, it just so happen that these pens are terrably overpriced and come with free incentives.

 

[Bagelfather]

Public Place

I do not think a Renaissance Faire is a public place in general. The reason being is that you have to pay admission to go in, therefore it is not by definition a public place. First of all the filmmaker would have to get permission from the faire to distribute any tape of the faire for sale.

If the faire was at a public park where there is no admission then it is a public event. The person would still need permission because the park would then have rights of what could be sold. Just because Balboa Park in San Diego is a public area does not mean I have the right to shoot a film for profit without their written consent.

The people in thse videos require consent for sale of the video. Even if it may not be a sexual act is would be considered as such in a court of law which is why the models in video companies have release forms and proof of age on file even though there is no nudity or sexual contact.

If it was a public place and each person signed a waiver stating they allowed their likeness to be used (or it was done at the entrance to the faire) then they would have no qualms except for the under age part.

When I work the Ren Faire I sign a waiver that states my likeness can be used for promotion of the faire. This is for the faire hiring photographers to document the faire for self promotion. If my picture appears on the website promoting the faire I am entitled to no compensation because I made such an agreement.

News organizations are exempted for video taping and showing the footage for profit as they have gotten permission to do so, and in a public area it is again a public area.

Anyone selling such videos is subject to prosecution. I have worked with law enforcement on several occasions and talked to them about cases they have done involving child pornography. The last thing you want is the District Attorney or the United States Postal Inspection service hauling you into court after serving a warrant on your residence, and then seizing all records of those who bought the videos and dragging them into the courts as well. Yes they will do that and will continue to do so.

I have no problem with the staged abduction scenes so long as the contracts involved give leeway for what is done.

 

[trace1984]

serious

i agree even if they agree to get into the stocks gives no one anyright to make money off them with out them knowing signing and getting a cut of the profits,, or saying no....home videos i think is weird but thats how it goes but professional videos a big no no,, legally some one will get sued if those females slash video stars find out about the tapes,,

 

[Tickler Bart]

Contact Kujman1

Contact Kujman1.
His website http://www.ticklepalace.com/
Kujman is the one that makes these Renfaire videos.
I'm sure he can and will explain all the legalities of his videos.

 

[Redmage]

I do not think a Renaissance Faire is a public place in general. The reason being is that you have to pay admission to go in, therefore it is not by definition a public place.

Actually, in California that's one of the definitions of a "public place" under the law. If you charge admission for entry, it's considered a public place by definition unless you have some sort of membership requirement and limit admission to members and their guests.

Common examples of such public places are theaters, museums, nightclubs, and sports arenas.

As far as selling the images is concerned, any image or film obtained in a public place can be sold without the permission of those depicted in it. That's how the paparazzi make their money snapping photos of unwilling celebrities in public. Verifying the ages of those involved is another matter, though it might be hard to make the case that tickling someone at a renfaire is "sexually explicit behavior" as defined by the law.