The Atlanta Braves Demise

[Mitchell]

As many who know me are aware, I am an Atlanta Braves fan. Yes, I am still a fan. I have been a fan since 1983, through the years of last place, and the fourteen straight division titles, and I will probably always be a fan of theirs, win or lose, whether I watch every game, or not.
As most of us baseball fans are aware, the Braves have fallen completely apart, as they currently reside 13 games behind the runaway New York Mets in the National League Eastern Division. Just so everyone knows, yes, I have given up on the Braves for this year. I dont hold any illusions that they will pull off any miracle comebacks this season. Their division titles streak is over. Furthermore, at seven games back in the Wild Card race, and playing miserably, I know that their chances for making the playoffs are extremely slim. Their division title streak, and playoff run, is history. That having been said, I am still very proud of my team.
I know how their critics talk of "Fourteen straight division titles, and only one World Series". Do I wish they had won at least one or two more World Series? Obviously I do. However, I cannot downplay the absolutely incredible streak they had. Their division title run extended through almost a decade and a half, through five presidential administrations. (Starting with George HW Bush, continuing through two Clinton administrations, one George W Bush adminstration, and into his second term) No team in sports history, except maybe the old Yankees, was as successful for that period of time. I am very proud of their manager, Bobby Cox, who belongs in the Hall of Fame, and their General Manager, John Scherholtz, who belongs there also. They have often had the top pitching staff in baseball, and many times a great offense as well, have had three likely Hall of Fame players, at least, on their roster, in John Smoltz, and former Braves Greg Maddux, and Tom Glavine, and have won well over 1000 games, during a streak that never semed like it would end, until this year.
Honestly, for us fans, me included, I thought they would have a season like this three years ago, when Tom Glavine left Atlanta, and Kevin Millwood was traded away. From 2003 to 2005, Bobby and John made all the right moves, to keep their streak alive, at a time when none of us, even the most diehard of fans, could have thought such possible.
As for this year, I had a strong feeling at the beginning of the season that the Mets might end Atlanta's run, and unless, a miracle occurs, it looks like I will be right. The Mets have a very strong team. I had hoped that Atlanta might stay in contention for the division or the wild card, but, unless they really pick it up, even a wild card berth seems unlikely.
So, I sit here as a humbled fan, but yet a very proud fan. I am proud of my team, and what they have accomplished. Hopefully, their down season this year wont be the beginning of a trend, and they can rally to at least get the Wild Card next year. Until then, they deserve a tip of the cap, from me, and I think, all baseball fans. What they accomplished is truly remarkable. Thanks for the memories, Braves. I have many great ones over 14 years, and just maybe, we are allowed to have a season like this, after all the years of championship baseball in Atlanta, Georgia.

Mitch

 

[VryTklshToez]

Tom Glavine

He's a great guy in person!!! I've watched him play golf and great friends with Jay Howell! Just thought you might like that.

 

[PainTrain]

A great organisation that will be back at the top in no time, mitch.


One thing though... I do find it a tad shocking that a team could win the division that many times in a row and only scrape out one world championship.


Interesting, heh.

No worries mate, they will have another.

 

[milagros317]

Well, it was a fine streak of Division titles while it lasted. 😀

 

[Mitchell]

Gremio, I do agree with you. The fact that they won so many division titles, and only one World Championship, is at best, very disappointing.
As for being back on top in no time, I'm not sure. I think it depends on ownership. I know that the team has been on the market to be sold from AOL for a long time. It really depends on ownership. John Scherholtz, the Braves GM, said last year in his book, that the team lost money with their downsized $80 million dollar payroll. If they have a poor year this year, which it looks highly likely that they will, and finish, say, 500, or below, it will be interesting to see if they do what some championship teams do after a long successful run, and break the team up. They could well end up trading off some of the more expensive stars, and rebuild with youth. Or, whether they take the philosophy that this one bad year is just that, one bad year, and they are able to make a few savvy deals over the winter, to put them at or close to the top again.
They have a mixed core of players on the team now. Guys like John Smoltz and Chipper Jones are getting older, while guys like Andruw, Tim Hudson, and the young guy Jeff Francouer, still have a lot of good baseball left in them. You have to wonder if maybe the team should take the rebuild route for two to three years, trade guys like Smoltz and Chipper, to get something for them while they still have value, and take some hits in the standings for a couple of years. I'm not sure what they should do. As I said in my earlier post, I am not surprised that they arent in first. However, should they lose today, and the Mets win, they will be in last place. That is pretty shocking, and not a scenario I expect that management will take lightly.
We will just have to see how the season plays out. Right now, unless they really pick it up, it doesnt look good at all.

Mitch

 

[luvgirlsfeet]

I'm very surprised they way they are playing, they used to be such a dominating team.

 

[Mitchell]

Well, it's official. With Atlanta's loss last night, and Florida's win, the Braves are now in sole possession of Last Place in the National League East. Honestly, I never would have thought that possible. Granted, I cant say that I expected a division title this year, but their play is disgraceful.
I honestly don't think they will recover. I dont know if they will finish in last, because we have no way of knowing how Florida or Washington will play the rest of the year. Right now, my prediction for Atlanta is 70 to 75 wins, and fourth or fifth place. There are 92 games left after this, with the Braves at 30 wins, 40 losses, so, if they play .500 the rest of the way, they end up with 76 wins.
It is all ugly. Now the question is, is this one bad year, or the beginning of the demise of the Braves for a while? Only time will tell, I guess.

Mitch

 

[CitY of MicA]

You've made so many points, Mitchell, that I'll only address one or two at this point. My hats off to the Braves and their run regardless of this season's outcome (but I would never count them out 😉 ). I'm not sure what their farm system looks like, so it's pretty hard to know about the future. They were always excellent evaluators of talent, however, so I see no reason why this shouldn't continue with Cox and Sherholtz in place. Losing Leo Mazzone was really a shame.

You have to wonder if maybe the team should take the rebuild route for two to three years, trade guys like Smoltz and Chipper, to get something for them while they still have value, and take some hits in the standings for a couple of years.

Cox, Sherholtz, and management have always shown great loyalty to the cornerstones of the organization, much like Joe Torre has managed to do in New York. I would hope that both those players, and Smoltz in particular, would retire as Braves. I don't think Smoltz will ever pitch in another uniform of his own volition. He's a rather unique player in this day and age, what with his loyalty to the organization. He once gave a speach in defeat on behalf of the team (perhaps after the World Series lost to the Yankees in '99) that was one of the most gratious and powerful things I've ever heard in my life.

I'll pop back in here when I get a chance to mull over some Braves memories since this thread seems to be some sort of moratorium 😱 .

 

[Mitchell]

Mica, Thanks. I look forward to you posting your memories. You mentioned Smoltz retiring as a Brave. Honestly, I've heard he wants to, and I would love to see it happen, since Glavine left the Braves, after playing for them for his whole career, and Dale Murphy as well.
As for the talent, and draft picks. Winning fourteen straight division titles means that you get some fairly low picks. Bobby and John S have always been very shrewd when it comes to evaulating talent. I know that the Richmond Braves, their Triple A club, hasnt done too well the last couple of years. I have seen that some of the low minor league clubs of theirs have done okay in recent years, but, even if they dont recover this year, unless they make some good moves over the winter, difficult, considering their constant payroll concerns, it might be a couple of years before they are on top again. I dont know what will be.
As long as we are discussing Braves memories, here are my favorites.

1. The obvious probably. The fly ball that settled in Marquis Grissom's glove on October 28, 1995, to give them their only World Championship.

2. The Francesco Carbera hit in Game 7 of the 1992 NLCS. I was in my college dorm downstairs lounge that night. I can still see Sid Bream chugging around third, to score the winning run. After that, I was on the floor of the lounge, somewhat delirious.

3. The 1999 NLCS win against the Mets. Andruw Jones bases loaded walk from Kenny Rogers. That was one of my favorites. I have always detested the Mets, and, after horrid losses in Games 4 and 5 of that series, I thought it might go to a Game 7.

Now, my worst Braves memories from the 1990s.

1. Game 7, 1991 World Series. That was a series neither team deserved to lose. I'll admit I was crying when they lost that night. It was like a tragic ending to a magical season.

2. Mark Wohlers homerun pitch to Jim Leyritz, Game 4, 1996 World Series, which tied the game, 6-6. Atlanta led that game 6-0, and if they won it, after blasting the Yankees two in a row in New York, I think they finish the Yankees the next night in five games, for back to back championships. As it turns out, we know what happened. The Yankees went on to win that game, swept them three straight in Atlanta, and finished them in Game 6 in the Bronx.

3. This one is a long time ago, but it shows how long their run lasted. Jeff Reardon's homerun pitch to Ed Sprague, Game 2, 1992 World Series. If the Braves win that game, they take a two game to none lead in the series, and probably win that series in 1992, for their first championship, as they had home field advantage, Instead, the Blue Jays won that game, and the series in six.

So many memories, such a long run. It was incredible while it lasted.

Mitch

 

[Goodieluver]

braves are rebuildin and have no middle relief

Some rumor mills are a churnin sayin smoltz is gonna be dealt to a 1st place team, possib detroit

 

[Mitchell]

Things go from bad to worse. Tonight's game is over, and the Braves have just lost their ninth game in a row, and are now 30-42. They are also 2-17 in June. The way this team is playing, they have a shot to lose 90 to 100 games, just stunning coming off 14 straight division titles.

Mitch

 

[Goodieluver]

Things go from bad to worse. Tonight's game is over, and the Braves have just lost their ninth game in a row, and are now 30-42. They are also 2-17 in June. The way this team is playing, they have a shot to lose 90 to 100 games, just stunning coming off 14 straight division titles.

Mitch

I wouldnt say it is stunning, its inevitable, look and the yankees, that division has a possibility of the yankees finishing 3rd or worse, when u stagnate for a period, yer due for a down time.

 

[Mitchell]

I dont think the Braves being this bad was inevitable. On the contrary, they still had some very good players entering this season, such as Chipper, Andruw, Smoltz, Hudson, and Francouer. While most didnt expect them to win the division, all the preseason predictions I read picked them to be 2nd, or at worst, 3rd. They were predicted to finish at least at 500, and perhaps as high as the wild card. One or two publications had them picked to win again. A team doesnt go from first to last in one season, with the same personnel, unless it is a major collapse. The Braves worst problem is relief pitching, they have no closer, but they should be better than 12 games under 500.
Maybe they were due for a bit of a down period, but not this bad. This is unacceptable, and hopefully, management will make changes soon or in this offseason to make the situation better for next year.

Mitch

 

[CitY of MicA]

Yeah, that '99 series against the Mets was exciting. I guess you could say it was somewhat acrimonious. Here are some rather vague and odd memories, but I'm sure you'll know what I'm talking about:


Lonnie Smith, in the '91 series, rounding third like a bat out of hell while losing his helmet and barreling toward home. He was wearing this gold chain that looked like it wanted to fly off with the huge head of steam he had going. And at home plate, Smith has a violent collision with the catcher. He was out, but it was one of the most exciting baseball plays I've ever seen in my life. Incidentally, I certainly remember your Sid Bream memory (classic, right?). I've been reading on the internet where some braves fans blame Smith for losing game 7 of the series on a baserunning blunder, so I guess he's not exactly a fan favorite. But I like how you look on the bright side, Mitchell.

Third baseman Terry Pendleton one-hopping his thows to first base.

Tom Glavine pitching a one-hitter against a loaded Indians line-up to close out the '95 world series.

Mark Lemke- need I say more- he was like Ted Williams (without the power 😉 ) in the playoffs. How many clutch hits did this guy have? It was ridiculous. Somewhere I have an article relating a number of them- I'll try to dig it up.

Andruw Jones, during the regular season (2004?), having enough bat speed to catch up to Mariano Rivera's cutter and hitting a game winning home run off of him in the ninth inning. Dramatic. I always thought it was cool that he played so shallow in center (a la Paul Blair, for those that remember him). With the amount of ground Jones covers, I rarely remember seeing a ball hit over his head. It's hard to imagine where the Braves would have been without Jones last year.

Jeff Francouer being called up last season around July- hitting ridiculously well and throwing out at least 9 people... I guess, as an outfielder, until you prove you have an arm, everyone tries to run on you. But you'd think that eventually the word would be out...

John Smoltz acepting the role of closer, even though he relished being a starter, and becoming an absolutely lights out one. He had a remarkable run of saves- I think he almost got through an entire season without blowing one (looked it up- in '02 he broke the national league record with 55 saves).

A funny ad Glavine and Maddux did where they come to the conclusion that 'chicks dig the long ball.'

The Braves and Mets coming into August in a tight race (don't recall the year- 2001?) and having several series where Chipper Jones swings an incredibly hot bat and nearly single-handedly knocked the Mets out of the race.

The Braves (Klesko, the Joneses, Justice, McGriff, etc.) hitting the cover off the ball during the 1996 playoffs. After falling behind 3-1 in the NCLS, they outscored the Cardinals some ridiculous amount (I looked it up- 32-1) and continued that streak through the first 2 games of the world series (outscoring the Yankees 16-1 in the first two games).


Bad memories:

Kurt Hrebek pulling Ron Gant's leg off the bag at first to get him called out in the '91 series (what a terrible call- I can't stand cheaters).

Kevin Brown, in the '98 NCLS with the Padres, shutting the Braves down with just about as dominant pitching as I've ever seen and hitting ta boot. Brown had at least five different types of pitches that he could throw well.

Braves being swept in the '99 world series.

The Braves getting through a grueling regular season to uncharacteristically, as a team, start fielding as if they had blocks of cement for hands. They were swept in three games from the divisional playoffs (can't remember the year).

 

[ticklingfeet4fu]

Let me be fair, the Braves had a great run. The best run in the HISTORY of baseball. But I am thrilled to see my Mets team crushing the NL East like they did in 1986. Now the Mets visit the Red Sox and the Yankees. It is time to serve notice to the AL teams they the Mets are taking no prisoners.

 

[Mitchell]

Today's game: Maddening, and one which is a large part of the reason Atlanta will not repeat as NL East champs, and likely not even make the playoffs. Two leads on the Yankees, one in the eighth, the other in the twelfth. Giambi ties the game one time, and then, in the 12th, Arod, off Atlanta "closer" Jorge Sosa, with Atlanta leading by a run in the inning, two run ding dong, bye bye game. Yankees win.
Atlanta's pen is awful. Unless they get some relief pitching, they will not even finish at 500.

Mitch

 

[qjakal]

As a lifelong Mets fan, even I wouldn't wish this sort of year on anyone. I was hoping the Mets and Braves would duke it out down to September [with the Mets winning of course 🙂 ] . It feels wrong to not wrest the title from Atlanta in a close pitched battle, but so goes the cycle of baseball...maybe next year the wheel will turn and we'll have a better race.

Q

 

[Mitchell]

Thanks, q, the thoughts are appreciated. At the beginning of this year, I knew the Mets had made major changes, and had a good shot to win the East, so their year does not surprise me at all. Barring a second half disaster, and an unbelievable comeback by someone in the East, you guys have the NL East wrapped up, in my view.
As for the Braves, you are most correct. I truly expected a year long battle for the East, with both the Mets and Braves making the playoffs, with one as the wild card, and another as the East champ, and maybe even playing in the NLCS like 1999. Atlanta's collapse is stunning. At 33-46, the Braves are playing on pace to win 68 to 70 games. I have a bet with a friend where he says Atlanta does not make 70 wins this year. I took the high road, of course, believing in my team, after they won the East the last three years, in spite of losing Glavine, Maddux, Millwood, and others. The way they are playing, my friend might well win the bet, and the Braves won't even get 70 wins.
I keep waiting for them to make a push, but they need to turn it around, and fast. The division is gone, and, unless they have a smoking second half, with each day that passes, the wild card looks unlikely as well. Now, time will tell if this is just one bad year, or the beginning of a down period that will last for a while.

Mitch

 

[giantfan121262]

I have been a life long Mets fan as well and I am thrilled to see them finally put together a good year. I am actually surprised to see the Braves fall apart the way they have. As I speak at the all star break, there is still alot of baseball to be played. Personally I hope the Mets win the NL East, but I am not counting the Braves out just yet. they have shown in prior years they are as capable as anybody to put together a streak. I fully expect to see the Braves right there in the end. I do think they will come up short b/c of their bullpen (or lack of).

 

[Mitchell]

Giant, unless the Mets completely collapse, I am basically conceding the NL East. I dont see Atlanta making up 12 games.
That being said, the Braves did have a great homestand, and they are only seven games out in the wild card. I know they have several teams to leap frog over, and a tough ten game trip coming up right after the break, but, if they can hold their own during that trip, they have a lot of home games left in the latter part of the year. While it may be tough, I think they have a shot at the wild card. They need to find some consistent relief pitching, and might even need a trade at the deadline on the 31st. I do hope they can at least make a run at, and get, the wild card. It would be sad to see fourteen years of dominance, end with them as a sub 500 team. I guess we will just have to wait and see how the second half plays out.

Mitch

 

[Mufasa]

hey everybody...i heard that Smoltz wants to be traded or sumthing. i could be wrong. that seems mesed up to me. he coasted along with them helping them win many a divisional title and at the first sign of them faltering, he wants out. it dont seem right. ima diehard mets fan and have been watchin the mets have to be in ATL's rearview for sooooo long. it was a nice streak while it lasted. hey, maybe when the Bravos get their act together again, we may be able to spark a rivalry that is Skankees/Red Sox worthy.

ill leave you with something that sparked hope in many a Met fan's heart...

"Ya Gotta Believe"

 

[Mitchell]

I havent checked this thread for a few days, but I do have a couple of points to add.
Eck, you make a good point about Smoltz winning 14 division titles, and then wanting out at the first sign of trouble. However, most baseball fans know that Smoltz played on the worst team in baseball for the first three years of his career, from 1988 to 1990, when the Braves finished last each of those years. I am not defending him, but, just maybe, at age 39, he wants a shot to win one more World Series before he retires. Tom Glavine very much looks like he has that shot this year with the Mets, and, even if Smoltz plays three, four , or five more years, if Atlanta goes into a down period for a while, he may not have another chance.
I just read an article on a sports website which stated that while the Braves may move some people before the trade deadline, and while there have been rumors of Smoltz to Detroit, or even the Mets, those scenarios arent likely to happen. First, he has a no trade clause, as a 10 and 5 player, Second, he is signed for another year, at a bargain price of $8 million. One isnt going to find a top notch starting pitcher nowadays for that kind of price. Third, Atlanta could well take the philosophy that this is one down year, and ride it through, try for the wild card, which they have a shot at if they keep playing well as they have the last ten days, and, if they dont make it, come back next year. Also, next year they get Mike Hampton back from Tommy John Surgery. If he is healthy, and the team plays well, he's a 15 game winner minimum. At that point, their big three of Smoltz, Hudson, and Hampton, if they all win you 15 to 20 games each, suddenly, that is 45 to 60 wins right there. If they find a fourth and fifth starter who is decent, one more bat, and some bullpen work, they are contenders again. Their demise this year has been due to their bullpen. Their record in one run games is awful, and I read somewhere that their bullpen has blown more than 20 saves just in the first half.
This upcoming road trip beginning tonight is critical. Ten Days, three cities, ending in Philadelphia on July 24. I am going to the game on the 23rd. I hope by that time that they are still well in the wild card race, and not preparing for 2007.

Mitch

 

[Mufasa]

yea... u make a good point too. he does deserve a shot at another ring. never thought of it that way. i would love to see a NYM/ATL NLCS showdown so i hope they make wild card. the mets need starting pitching and i would welcome him as a Met if he decided he wanted out and ATL wanted to deal him even if thats unlikely. the braves could win the division yet. as a Met fan ive been so used to watching them have a great first half and then collapes come Aug-Sept. idc how far ahead they are, until i see a E in the elimination collum, i wont count anyone out of the divison title race. we learn that sometimes there is a very fine line between realism and pessimissm.

on a side note... did u catch the all star game? they may have lost but the mets produced all the offense for the NL. Carlos gets a double, steals 3rd, scores on a wild pitch. then D-Wright smacks a solo HR. good stuff

 

[Mitchell]

I didnt see the All Star Game, no, I dont watch that, ever, for some reason.
I think the Mets are pretty safe with the division, 12 games up. However, Atlanta has been hot lately, only 5 1-2 out in the wild card, so thats a definite possibility, even though they have a ways to go. It could well be a Mets-Braves LCS yet, who knows.
I do hope Smoltz isnt traded. If the Braves continue to play well, and stay close in the wild card race, he wont be. Aside from Hudson and him, their rotation is thin, Hampton is out til 07, Thomson is back on the DL, so they have Hudson, Smoltz, this new kid Chuck James who has pitched well, and Ramirez. This year, their hitting has kept them in it.
I truly think your Mets will win the division, but as for the wild card, I hope Atlanta gets it. They have a good shot if they play as they have the last two weeks.

Mitch

 

[ticklingfeet4fu]

To all Mets fans!!!

If you think that the Braves are done you are wrong. They still have a shot with the wild-card. Smoltz has said he wanted to retire a Brave. That being said if he goes somewhere he is DEFINATELY a rental. He will return to Atlanta. That being said, I still think that the Braves are buyers and NOT sellers being 5 1/2 games behind the Reds. As much as I am loving what the Mets are doing, I still think the Braves are dangerous.