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The Force, the Prophecy and the Real Difference Between Jedi and Sith

Dave2112

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I was reading the responses in the several Star Wars threads, and something came up a few times that I thought I’d take a separate crack at here, in another thread (rather than posting this over and over again…)

A lot of folks have different views on the whole Anakin-Balance-Prophecy thing, especially when it comes to the nature of the Force and what Balance even meant. There was also a discussion on the “Dark Jedi/Sith” thing that looked interesting, so let’s kill two birds with one stone.

The Sith are not just fallen or “Dark” Jedi that focus on the Dark Side of the Force. The fundamental difference between the Jedi and Sith is a philosophical one. The Jedi believe that their connection with the Force is a symbiotic relationship. Give and take, follow and lead. As Obi-Wan Kenobi once said, it controls your actions AND obeys your commands. The Jedi also see the Force as sort of a sentient entity in and of itself, with a will and at least some level of omniscience. This reinforces the “shared power” philosophy.

The Sith, on the other hand, see the Force as more of a natural phenomenon, one to be used by those with the inate ability to do so. They believe that the Force-user controls the Force. Kind of a hyper-Darwinism sort of thing. It’s not a belief system born out of pure evil, per se…just a point of view that the ability to control the Force should, by natural selection, put one at the top of the galactic food chain.

Of course, this leads to evil acts, but as we’ve seen, the best intentions are sometimes carved into the flesh with a lightsaber. We’ve talked before about how selfishness was more of a path to darkness than violence…but all of that goes back to that one fundamental difference in philosophies.

Now, at one time, there were Dark Jedi, in a manner of speaking. Going back about 6,000 years or so, the Jedi were torn apart by this very difference in beliefs and VERY long story short…those that “fell” (the Dark Ones) were driven into then-unknown space and settled on a planet populated by a race called the Sith. The Dark Jedi eventually took over and adopted the name and it became synonymous with them long after the extinction of the original Sith race. When they found their way back to the Republic (another LONG story short), thus ensued the Great Hyperspace War, followed a millennia later by the Mandalorian and Jedi Civil Wars.

Now, about the whole “Force in Balance” thing…

The prophecy was about Anakin, not Luke. I think we pretty much agreed on that. However, what did they mean by putting the Force in Balance? Does that mean no Sith…or two apiece, or some crazy shit like that? No. During the times leading up to the Clone Wars, the Force was not in balance. You don’t make a prophecy about fixing something that isn’t broke, right? This is why, in Attack of the Clones, Yoda and Mace have a discussion about the Jedi Council’s “diminished” ability to use the Force. Yoda referred several times to the Dark Side clouding everything. The Force was tipping out of Balance toward the Dark. The cycle of events that Darth Sidious was setting in motion, not to mention the actual physical atrocities either committed by himself or on his behalf, were sending ripples through the Force, affecting everything. Such a wide-scale mass-manipulation project, with the intention of placing a Sith Lord as the undisputed Absolute Ruler of the Galaxy, was seriously throwing things out of whack for all of those involved deeply with the Force. This is why it was less obvious that Palpatine was a Sith Lord to the Jedi Council than it was to the viewer.

Just a little something to munch on….
 
Why didn't Lucas put any of this in the movies?

What's the deal with Chewbacca kickin' it with Han Solo (and somewhere down the line with Lando Calrissian) yet apparently stumbling blindly into the Death Star with Han even though he had a Jedi with him there on the Falcon? And not correcting Han when he goes on about there not being any "all powerful owerful Force" even though he fought alongside Yoda?

And that whole "Your father wanted you to have this when you were old enough" lightsaber sequence? Where do the Jedi's stand on witholding information and telling whoppers to local farmers?
 
Anakin is the chosen one, BUT, is he really? if you think about it, if it wasnt for Luke, Anakin/Vader, never kills the Emperor, ending the reign of the Sith. also, remember Yoda mentioning in Episode 3 about the Jedi possibly misreading the prophecy? it only adds more fuel to the debate.

as for Chewbacca knowing Yoda and not correcting Han, well, think about it. Yoda and Chewbacca never saw each other again. plus, Han was in front of an actual Jedi warrior and he still didnt believe in it. Chewbacca telling him about the Jedi wont change that anyway. if you really think about it, how could Han believe in it? the Jedi were "extinct", so in his mind, there must not be an all powerful force...
 
primetime said:
Anakin is the chosen one, BUT, is he really? If you think about it, if it wasn't for Luke, Anakin/Vader, never kills the Emperor, ending the reign of the Sith. also, remember Yoda mentioning in Episode 3 about the Jedi possibly misreading the prophecy? it only adds more fuel to the debate.

As for Chewbacca knowing Yoda and not correcting Han, well, think about it. Yoda and Chewbacca never saw each other again. plus, Han was in front of an actual Jedi warrior and he still didn't believe in it. Chewbacca telling him about the Jedi wont change that anyway. if you really think about it, how could Han believe in it? the Jedi were "extinct", so in his mind, there must not be an all powerful force...

I suppose Anakin could be the chosen one because he fathers the guy who will help put an end to the Sith (for now). But that's being charitable, because it then takes away from the theme of redemption; even evil people can do good and reform. If it's his destiny to bring balance to the force (translating to 'do a major right') at some pivotal point, then all Anakin really has to do is wait around until it's time for him to collect his "chosen one" ticket to redemption, thus negating the power of his will, the moral success of overcoming evil within and around him, etc. So the theme of the first 3 movies put together is negated.

Or, if the prophecy was misread, could they have been one generation off, and Luke was the one all along to bring balance to the Force by turning a bad Jedi and becoming a good Jedi leader?

And what was with the Jedi being so SURE Anakin was the chosen one in the 2 most recent movies, then in this latest film there's a total of one line about "Oh, maybe we were wrong." Then the surviving Jedis go on in the next generation and repeat the "He's too old to be a Jedi" mistake with someone they know for a fact is related to the most powerful and evil Jedi! Quite frankly, if Anakin was too old to be "safely" trained as a Jedi, and both the Chancellor and the Jedi were being secretive, manipulative and not forthcoming with Ani, then him becoming Darth Vader was pretty much more on all their shoulders than Aniken's anyway. Let's take a slave that has in him a kind of magic that we know can go evil easily and quickly..... the only female in his life is taken from him literally and figuratively, while our noble order denies him any other real female connection - then let's mess with his head even more and just hope for the best!

And WHO exactly prophesied all of this, anyway? If they can take a few lines from 1 movie about a clone war and develop an entire series of films on such a thing (like the "Spice Mines of Kessel" and "bull's eyeing wamp rats" - those were things never delved into) why would Lucas not gives us further detail about this prophesising. Unless that's just how he writes.

Chewbacca and Han.... if some old geezer is going on about a Force that I haven't seen any evidence of, that's one thing.... but if my best friend that I know and trust backs him up, well, my pal would carry a little more weight with me and I'd listen to what he had to say. "You said it Chewy - where did you dig up that old fossil?" Chewy was no more a believer in the force than Han, in the original '77 film. What was Chewbacca even doing on Tatooine, other than he was just one more of these sleazy smugglers (another thematic tip of the hat to redemption, until it's replaced as "destiny" as an idea in the storytelling).

nerobob said:
Because he makes it up as he goes along?

I put this in my original post, then deleted it. Just like Randal in the "Clerks" cartoon when he has Lucas on the witness stand. Nail, meet head.
 
Couple of things

Anakin WAS the chosen one, his path was just a little more complicated than anticipated. It was Vader that killed the Sith Lord not Luke. Maybe in order for the Sith Lord Emperor to be killed Anakin had to follow the dark side 1st. At the end, Vader essentially became Anakin again in his last moments.


That being said, the arguement of evil being an absolute is a difficult one. Is good defined by evil and vice versa? If you lived in a no crime garden of eden would playing your music too loud be a capital offense? If you lived in a monastary would you be the most evil tenant? What I took from the movie was what Dave touched on. The Sith just feel like they are a higher order on the food chain and thus should be in power. This is not so different than Socialists or Communists (or elitist democrats 🙂 )
They feel that they are superior and know whats best for the rabble which is too ignorant or inferior to take care of themselves.
 
Jason_F/M said:
The Sith just feel like they are a higher order on the food chain and thus should be in power. This is not so different than Socialists or Communists (or elitist democrats 🙂 )

Or Magneto's Brotherhood of Mutants. I hope Brian Singer doesn't start rewriting that fanchcise....
 
Jason_F/M said:
Anakin WAS the chosen one, his path was just a little more complicated than anticipated. It was Vader that killed the Sith Lord not Luke. Maybe in order for the Sith Lord Emperor to be killed Anakin had to follow the dark side 1st. At the end, Vader essentially became Anakin again in his last moments.

If Anakin was the chosen one, why did Darth Vader tell Luke near the end of Empire that "You can destroy the Emperor. He has forseen this. It is your destiny."? Would that not make Luke the 'chosen one'?? just curious.
 
Dave2112 said:
Of course, this leads to evil acts, but as we’ve seen, the best intentions are sometimes carved into the flesh with a lightsaber. We’ve talked before about how selfishness was more of a path to darkness than violence…but all of that goes back to that one fundamental difference in philosophies.

For "lightsabre" read "MOAB". 😀

Anyway, back to seriousness...

I don't think we can say that Chewie was never a believer in the Force, because we never heard his opinion on it. He didn't even RAHHHLLL on the subject, did he? Bear in mind he's been in Hans' company for the best part of a decade and he's his best mate, why would he be bothered to contradict him, when the question doesn't affect him one way or the other?
 
But I suppose, if these last 3 movies were especially well done in the first place, we wouldn't be talking so much about what did or didn't happen, what things mean, character's reasonings and behavior, and so on. I enjoyed every one of them, but it's all kind of playing out like what Nigel Exposition told Austin Powers when he went back in time: whatever doesn't make any sense, try not to think too hard about it and enjoy the experience.
 
I have a theory.....both Jedi and Sith have one big weakness : Love. They are both afraid of it and forbid it. Kinda funny.
 
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