the number one reason why Attack of the Clones sucked. :)

[TMF Jeff]

Dave's essay below got me thinking about this, and the thing that I've really disliked about both of the Star Wars prequals is the writing. It's lazy, and sloppy, and in desperate need of an editor who knows something about dialogue and story construction.

There's a scene after Anakin returns from mauling all those sand people (there's a phrase that doesn't quite have the same ring in the post 9/11 world) and he's brooding in his room when Amidala comes in. She sees him being all moody and says "Anakin, what's wrong?" He replies with something about feeling like he could be more powerful than he actually is.

To me this moment perfectly embodies the problem with George Lucas' writing. In the context of the script, the question is reasonable, because the person writing it knows what the answer is going to be. But imagine with me how this scene would play out in Amidala's mind as she forms the question, in an alternate world and with no pre-knowledge of the outcome...

"Anikin, what's wrong?"

"My fucking mother was just raped and murdered right before my eyes and I was about two seconds too late to save her, you psychotic, insensitive bitch!!!"

In that world, which I think much more closely mirrors the real one, the question would never be asked because the answer is obvious. And there are so many moments like that in both movies, where people do or say things that can only be explained by IITS (It's in the script) that to me both movies are almost unwatchable.

 

[Dave2112]

Funny you should bring this up right after my "Phantom Menace" thread....but, in a way, I agree with you. However, in another, I don't. You're right that the question shouldn't need to be asked, but remember that Padme doesn't know what Anakin has just done. We, as viewers, do. If anything, Lucas should have developed the dialog more. Almost in the way you described, but in a more, I don't know, Jedi-like sort of way.

Anakin's whole deal is that he has misplaced the right way to deal justice to those in his life (especially the women) that have been wronged. His rage comes out of love, which is the story of our history...Achilles, Nero, The Count of Monte Cristo, hell....even Hitler if you stretch it enough. The love of a person or an ideal can create justification in almost anyone's mind. And in the mind of those with power, it's a dangerous motivation.

But, in the context of this thread, I'd have to disagree that Anakin's outporing was the real weak point in AOTC. I have always hated the addition of the droid factory sequence (which Lucas admitted was a last-minute thing to fill some time) and the utterly stupid lines that C-3PO was given during the supposedly-serious Battle of Geonosis. Here we have a hundred Jedi losing thier lives in the opening salvo of the Clone Wars...and 3PO's saying things like "I've fallen and I can't get up!" Those of us whith the DVD of AOTC know that there was a large cut sequence with Anakin and Padme on "trial" on Geonosis, and that could have been played out to actually reveal the supposed "love story" that Lucas envisioned for Episode II. Had he dropped the idea of a really cool CGI scene and gone with the story, I think AOTC could have been saved. I will never get over how stupid 3PO was in the last 20 minutes of this film. However, I don't think that Anakin's display of anger was a bad thing, I actually think it was underplayed.

Maybe it's just me, but that's my opinion.

 

[TMF Jeff]

I brought this up specifically in response to your other thread 🙂

And I wasn't griping about his anger, it's certainly appropriate as he transitions towards being Darth Vader, I was griping about the inanity of the question. If Amidala didnt already know what had happened, that wasnt revealed clearly enough for me. I havent seen the movie in a while, but it seemed to me that by then everyone in the household already knew that his mother was dead. So the question of "What's wrong" becomes a kind of pointless one, because the answer is "My mother just died."

As for c3p0s dialogue, again I completely agree. I was trying to make a point about the writing in the movie, and the droid scene, and the bad dialogue, and a lot of other details are just further examples of that.

In my opinion Lucas is an oustanding special effects director, a mediocre film director, an absolutely miserable director of actors (I read that he directs off the set from inside a trailer,) and one of the worst writers ever.

 

[tickletoy3]

This is just me, and I realize everyone is different and we will all have different opinions. But I think all the early episodes are just dumb because we already know how it all ends. I don't buy a book, read the last 3 chapters, then flip to the front of the book. That's just stupid. Now if you had watched Episodes 1 and 2 and now 3 is coming out.. THEN watched 4,5 and 6.. that would be awesome and very entertaining.

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

Thats an obvious point to make, and if it were any other series I might agree, but I think it works just as well either way.

The whole arc of the story is the redemption of Anakin Skywalker, as most people should know by now. What order this story is told in really doesn't matter, I think its still as suspensful even though we know whats going to happen basically.

And in doing it the way Lucas has, its an interesting retrospect to see what became of the man and how that played out. Its always one thing hearing it, which we did, even in the OT, but its an entirely other thing to see it.

Palpatine's actual overthrow and final move (excluding the final removal of the remnants of the Republic by Episode IV) is just as interesting in this way. Seeing him in power and then wondering with awe how it played out (including as a Sith) makes it practically like its brand new and suspenseful even though we know whats going to happen. We just don't know the details, which can make all the difference visually for entertainment value. Doing it this way, present first, past second also allows Lucas to use imagery and foreshadowing in a most effective way. Even something as simple as how Obi-Wan smiles, and nuances like that are noticable because we know what he is like even as an old man.

It also serves to build up suspense and expectation. Love or hate the prequal, people definitely are paying attention to it. In that regard Lucas is very successful and his story and characters are just as beloved by the masses.

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

Yes, exactly what I'm saying. 🙂

It also helps you appriciate what the characters have went through and what they did.....or in some cases didn't do, and how that effected the characters, as we know them.

Back to Palpatine for a moment.

We first see him as hologram. This was redone in the special edition and the CG was replaced with Ian McDiarmid. This was very ominous I think. First and foremost because of the urgency with which Admiral Piett informs Lord Vader that the Emperor commands that he makes contact with him, and the urgency at which Vader takes this information and prepares for Palpatine and has the Executor moved out of the asteroid field to make sure the Emperor gets the best transmission and clarity possible.

That tells us that this Emperor character must be very important, and not for the obvious imperial reasons. Its clear that Vader has been dominated by this man, and that their relationship, even at a distance via a hologram is just as serious and subserviant. Vader's kneeling while speaking is also telling.

That scene makes you wonder just why this Palpatine character is so respected and feared. At this point, strictly from the movies, we don't know Palpatine is a Sith and that it is that power that Anakin was lost to.

Later, in Episode VI, we see a grand display of troops and ships arrayed for the Emperor. Again, for obvious reasons, he's the emperor, but when we first see him walking down the ramp, he doesn't look like what we thought at all. You can tell he's pure evil and "rise my friend", which is the first thing he says to Vader and the first line he delivers in this installement is that foreshadowing I mentioned in my last post.

Thats the only way it have been possible and enjoyable, and noticable if it was done the way it was.

"Lord Vader"

"...yes Master?..."

"Rise!"

Theres the connection of course. There are others, but I don't need to list them.

I'm just glad we have Star Wars at all. ^^


EDIT: Why did you delete your post tickletoy? Now its going to look like I'm talking to myself. 😛

 

[Dave2112]

I see your point a bit more clearly now, Jeff, and from your point of view, I agree. I guess that the whole scene was a bit misleading for non-fans who weren't just expecting this sort of thing to happen. Yeah, it was a stupid question. Even if she didn't know everything that had transpired, Padme would still have to have some idea that there was a major problem.

However, I guess just asking "what's wrong?" is something we all do with the ones we love, even if we already know the answer.

 

[primetime]

i dont know about the rest of you, but i liked AOTC. i thought the scene with Padme and Anakin was great. you get a chill knowing that Anakin is slipping towards Vader. i thought the love story was sloppily put together, but after watching the deleted scenes, Lucas should have had put those in to "sell" the love story.

i approach Star Wars movies the same way. i dont expect Oscar award winning performances. i dont expect excellent dialogue. i only expect an entertaining story. the whole Anakin-Vader-Palpatine-Luke story is a fascinating one. i think he's done a great job telling a story. i personally wont nitpick over every little thing wrong. i just want to see how the story unfolds. did the story entertain me? yes, it did. do i care if the dialogue is cheesy? no. do i care if Jar Jar annoyed a billion people? no. i want to see how Anakin falls and how Palpatine comes to power. entertain me, that's all. this is my own personal outlook....

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

Yeah, in the end thats all people really want when they go to the movies. And I don't think anyone would honestly say Star Wars has never been entertaining. Its a phenominon in it's own right, like anime, or WWE wrestling.

Star Wars is a space opera, and is often confused with being a sci-fi series, which it is not, but technically falls under a category like there because there is no proper genre for it. Its much more so a drama than an action adventure I think, especially when you talk about the morals of the story.

 

[Cav88]

There were a lot of things wrong with the movie. The episode name pretty much hinted it was going to be bad. It sounds like they stole it from a 1950 sci fi film.

What takes the cake was the Anakin hitting on Padme

"Oh padme I love you, your hands are not like sandpaper"

 

[TMF Jeff]

"Oh padme I love you, your hands are not like sandpaper"

Did he really say that???

 

[Cav88]

Did he really say that???

No, it's a summurization of it. The real thing is even worse.