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The one thing that only Christianity offers

omega

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Thought I would put this out and see if it is true or not. This is from an article by Tim Keller in the Winter 2002 edition of Leadership.

"Only Christians believe in a God who says, 'Here I am alongside you. I have experienced the same suffering you have. I know what it is like.' No other religion even begins to offer that assurance."

"Christianity is the only faith that tells you that God lost a child in an act of violent injustice. Christianity is the only religion that tells you, therefore, God suffered as you have suffered."
 
Amen

Amen to that.

And God continues to suffer, with every act of evil that takes place on Earth.

"Whatsoever you do to the least of my brothers, you do to me."
 
Well....

Most of the pantheon of both Rome and the Norse Gods lost many children, spouses and their ancient homeland as well. But I guess you're referring to the more modern religions....didn't Buddha have that incident with a daughter...hushed up rather well, but still not a point of honor? Omega, your heart is still in the right place though, so I bow to your expertise and agree fully that the Christian God DOES endeavor to be known and accessible more than most omnipotent deities, as a rule. As always, Q
 
Monotheism?

Not hardly - unlike Judaism or Islam, which share the God of Abraham, accept no substitutes.

Strelnikov
 
My intention in posting the quotes from the article was to see if there are any other religions that present a diety who has or does suffer. Q, you came through for me, with a good bit of dry humor too. Thanks for your comments and for reminding me of some of the ancient mythology I read in High School.

Strelnikov
Writen by Strel "Not hardly - unlike Judaism or Islam, which share the God of Abraham, accept no substitutes."

I'm sorry Strel. I don't get what you mean? I guess that shows you are so much more genius than me!
 
Sorry Omega - I thought to take a poke at you, but it was past my bedtime and I did it poorly. Christianity is described as a monotheistic faith, but there's the Trinity, and Roman Catholics add Marian doctrines for a total of four by my count. Doesen't invalidate the message: I think Christians are generally on the right path (or I wouldn't be one), but I've never quite understood how the theologians can say that we worship one God.

Strelnikov
 
Just thought I'd add my two cents 🙂

Christianity's God is a God who became man and so was susceptible to all of the pains of the body and temptations of the devil that all men are open to. What is so compelling about this is that Jesus (God Incarnate) became a whole man. Thus, he took on the flesh and so was every bit as capable of sin as you or I. Look at the Rosary, the Sorrowful Mysteries tell us clearly that Christ was human and was subjected to the worst pains and tortures imaginable.

Sorrowful Mysteries:

1. The Agony in the Garden: Jesus goes to the garden with his apostles, knowing full well that he is about to be handed over to the Pharisees. His own friends, the only ones he has, can't stay awake and be with him in this hour. They fall asleep when he needs their comfort most. Scripture tells us that in this hour the mind of Christ was deeply torn. Jesus, God Incarnate (God in the flesh), was struggling. He was struggling as you and I struggle everyday of our lives. He was struggling with the temptations of the flesh. He knew the horrors that were going to befall him. He knew he would be tortured and he feared the pains of the flesh. So his spirit was at war with his flesh, his physical desire to avoid pain and torture. Scripture tells us that in this hour Jesus was so torn, so afraid that "he sweated blood". Yet knowing full well his destiny, and no matter how great his desire to escape it, he said, "let Thy will be done."

2. The Scourging at the Pillar: Here Christ is brought before Pilate. He has never hurt anyone or anything. Quite the opposite. He has cured the sick, raised the dead, given sight to the blind and preached a message of peace and love. Yet he is brought before Pilate so that the Jews can get permission to crucify him. On this day of Passover Pilate is allowed to release a criminal to the Jews. Perhaps fearing to persecute this strange and powerful man, Pilate urges that Christ be released to the crowd. But they scream in opposition. "We want Barabas!" they cry. They want a zealot who forced religion by the sword and who had murdered countless numbers. Those who shout for Christ are quickly silenced. Barabas is released and Pilate orders Jesus to be flogged. His body stripped and his wrists tied to a pillar, his is whipped by leather tongs with sharp shards of bone at their ends. He cries out in pain and agony. His mother, Mary, stands by helplessly.

3. The Crowning of Thorns: Jesus, now stripped of his clothes and bleeding profusely from the wounds of the whip, is in the hands of the Roman soldiers. They mock him. They beat him. They spit on him. They drape him with a purple cloth mocking his kingship. They fashion a crown of thorns and beat them into his head with clubs. God, who made himself man for our sakes, is humiliated, mocked, spit on, beat and bashed with a crown of inch long pikes.

4. The Carrying of the Cross: Already severely beaten, Christ's wrists are tied to a heavy piece of wood (imagine a railroad tie). He is still wearing his crown of thorns and his mocking purple drapery. He is bleeding profusely. He is exhausted beyond imagination. And now he is forced to march barefoot up the stony path to Golgatha (Skull Place). Crowds are lined along the way to curse at him and throw stones and behind him march the Roman soldiers with their cruel whips. Christ is so exhausted from the beatings and the weight of the cross that he falls three times and in the end has to have someone (Simon) nearly carry him to the place of crucifixion. All of his energy is spent. He has reached the threshold of human pain and exhaustion.

5. The Crucifixion: The most terrible of deaths it is marked for ordinary criminals: murderers, robbers, and the like. Now a man who has never committed a crime is brought to feel the pains of this terrible death. Christ falls to the stony earth in exhaustion. His energy is spent. The Roman soldiers now pick up their hammers and their iron spikes. They place the spikes in Christ's wrists and hammer down on them with all of their might. Jesus, cries out in pain and agony, drawing breath from the torments of his torture. Mary stands near at hand, again helpless to aid her beloved Son. Christ, his wrists nailed to the wood, is raised up on the cross, his nailed wrists supporting the full weight of his body. He again cries out in anguished pain. The cross is set. A resting place is set about his feet. His mother thinks they are giving him some resting place, some comfort amidst his tortures. Then, to her horror, they drive the iron spikes through his feet. What little breath was left for Jesus to cry out? Thus crucified, there he hung through the long hot day, struggling for breath, the weight of his own body crushing his lungs. The Roman soldiers beneath him are laughing and playing games for his clothing. His anguished mother is staring up at her beaten and tortured Son. There is nothing she can do to help him now.

It goes on for hours, Christ is atoning for all the sins of mankind, though they scarcely know it. In the end he cries out, "Father, forgive them! They know not what they've done.........It is finished. Into Your hands I surrender My Spirit."


I posted this in answer to the question of "if there are any other religions that present a deity who has or does suffer?"

There are many religions in the world. But I think what it is important to understand is that there is only one God. There is only one truth. Our separate religions are simply interpretations or grasping inklings of truth. We may believe there are many Gods and many different stories, but in truth there is only one God and only one story. It is our own desire to bend God to our will and lifestyles that creates multiple religions. God came to earth as a man, God suffered terribly to atone for our sins and God was murdered at our hands.

Thus we have been saved.

As always, interested in any responses or differing views.

Peace,
Scott
www.calltochrist.com
 
Strel mentioned the questionable "monotheistic" state of the Trinity, and to be honest, Scott, I thought you'd be all over that! 😀 he he..

Anyway, the Christian Faith IS monotheistic. The Trinity (Father, Son and Holy Spirit) are three facets of ONE God, according to the faith. It's part of the mystery of faith. I know it sounds a little wierd, but that's the basis of it all. Jesus was God AS Man, not only the "Son of God" so to speak. It's a little tricky, and surely open for theological debate, but you get my point.😎
 
To start off I must write this disclaimer: Every illustration stands on only three legs. Now, to the illustration.

I have heard the concept of trinity explained as an egg. Shell, white, yolk. All three together are one whole egg.

To me it seems kind of weak. Please refer to my disclaimer above.
 
Thanks Omega

Your "egg" analogy makes more sense than the explanation I got from Sister Mary Elephant at St. Andrew's, back when the world was young. Still not sure I buy it, but as I said, that doesen't invalidate the truth of the message.

Strelnikov
 
Ahhh....Sister Mary Elephant.

But didn't she teach at "Our Lady of Unimaginable Agony"?

😀
 
Another few things that only christianity offers:

The Jack Chick Tracts (Make sure to check out the one on RPGs and the one on homosexuals)

The Truth for Youth, just like Chick, but in color, and with less hell business...

Bible Man (Yeah! FOR JESUS!), very flashy, watch out for pop-ups...

Also, remember that Harry Potter is the devil's advocate for furthering the ends of witchcraft (Oooooohhhhh! Spooky!)

Yep, only christianity will try to convey its message in these ridiculous and banal ways (Try it out! Especially, try for some lesbo-action on this bad joke of a web-page). Not to mention ridiculous and pathetic. At least they're not using violence to subdue non-believers (like some other religion's fundamentalist zealots)... unless you look at pro-lifers who kill abortion-clinic workers.

I don't hate christians in general. They merely annoy me. For all the above reasons. Views may vary towards the more tolerant devout. If this post offends you, it means you want to associate with the people who created the webpages I just mentioned. In that case, I'm sorry, but please try and just ignore me.
 
Oddly enough, Marauder, this religious/social conservative agrees with you. We Christians have a worthwhile message, belief system, rules for living, call it what you will. It sells itself if presented properly. But as you say, there are a few noisy pain-in-the-ass busybodies who ignore the joy in favor of the hellfire. When they equate Halloween, or Harry Potter, with devil worship, people who might otherwise be receptive often say, "That's a crock of shit. The rest of their message must be too."

Omega, as our resident clergyman, what's your take on this?

Strelnikov
 
Harry Potter and Bilbo Baggins are part of a conspiracy

My concern is with the sometimes conflicting things coming out of our mouths. Many in the church are saying that Harry Potter will lead to devil worship, but then in the next breath be full of praise for "Lord of the Rings". I read the trilogy, the Hobbitt, and Silmarillion. I just don't see the illusions to Christianity that many talk about. I haven't read Harry Potter or seen the movie.

Do I wish that Harry Potter was Christian and fought off his enemies with prayer to God in Jesus' name? Yes.
Do I think that Harry Potter will encourage every child to get involved in witchcraft and casting spells. No.

As per your question, Strel. I agree that Christianity can sell itself. We don't need to be pushy about it. Sometimes I am amazed that I would be a pastor. I am really laid back and somewhat shy. Not at all pushy. When I do talk to someone who is not Christian, all I am doing is telling my story. This is where I was, what I was like. This is how I found out about Jesus. Here is the difference Jesus made for me. If they are interested how that can happen for them, they will ask. If they don't ask I don't go beyond just telling my story.

P.S. Halloween really is an occult holiday. But outside of the church I don't make it an issue. One time when I was teaching elementary music we did a few songs around Halloween time. For some reason I made a comment that I don't celebrate Halloween. A student asked me why. I said, "Because I don't want to salute the devil." The next day the principal told me a parent had called because she was offended by a teacher making that comment. I guess that's about the closest I've come to condemning Halloween outside of the church.
 
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Halloween an occult holiday? Saluting the Devil? Maybe so, if you consider the Druidic beliefs of my Celtic ancestors to be "Satanic." When the Celts celebrated Samhain, which evolved into our modern Halloween, their intent was to calm the spirits of the restless dead, not invite harmful spirits into the mortal world. Trick-or-Treating started as the custom of leaving food for the unhappy souls as an act of compassion.

The only way the Devil gets mixed up in all this is because of the Catholic Church, which, as a syncretic religion, appropriated the image of the Celtic woodland spirit called Herne the Wild Huntsman, (AKA Cernunos the Horned God, Cerne, Pan, and other names through Druidic pantheons of Europe) and called him the Devil as part of its political campaign to become dominant religion in Ireland. It wasn't the first time, either, as the Catholic Saint Bridget was never a living, mortal woman; she was in fact the Celtic Fire Goddess Brigida also absorbed in the hostile takeover of the Celtic faith.

I've spoken at length under the Religion/Guilt/Evil thread about the logical inconsistencies that prevent me from accepting the existence of the Devil as he is descibed by the likes of Jack T. Chick, so I will not repeat it here. I will, however, say that the Devil only has power if you believe he does, that he can only affect you if you let him. Forget the question of a supposedly monotheistic religion having three gods, or a fourth in the Blessed Virgin Mary, those who argue that the Devil is everywhere and can affect anyone are granting Lucifer the same level of power and respect as God. That, I think, is saluting the Devil far more dangerously than wearing a costume and singing scary songs one night a year.
 
Re

The question of the Holy Trinity has kept coming up in this thread so I'd thought I'd post something which, it seems, very few people know about. The following is not my writing but that of Sr. Lucia's (The only living visionary of Fatima)

<b>Last Vision of Fatima</b>

One of the most important of all the revelations of Fatima is the last great vision of June 13, 1929, at Tuy in Spain. While making late night holy hour in the convent chapel Lucia, now a Dorothean nun, witnessed the vision which appears to be a synthesis of the Fatima message.
In her own words, Lucia describes the vision:

Suddenly the whole Chapel was illuminated by a supernatural light, and a cross of light appeared above the altar, reaching to the ceiling. In a bright light at the upper part of the cross could be seen the face of a man and his body to the waist (Father) on his breast there was a dove also of light (Holy Spirit) and, nailed to the cross, was the body of another man (Son). Somewhat above the waist, I could see a chalice and a large host suspended in the air, on to which drops of blood were falling from the face of Jesus Crucified and from the wound in His side. These drops ran down on to the host and fell into the chalice. Our Lady was beneath the right arm of the cross (....it was Our Lady of Fatima with Her Immaculate Heart...in Her left hand ....without sword or roses, but with a crown of thorns and flames...). Under the left arm of the cross, large letters, as of crystal clear water which ran down over the altar, formed these words: Graces and Mercy.
I understood that it was the Mystery of the Most Holy Trinity which was shown to me, and I received lights about this Mystery which I am not permitted to reveal.
Our Lady then said to me:

The moment has come when God asks the Holy Father, in union with all the Bishops of the world, to make the Consecration of Russia to my Heart, promising to save it by this means.

IMPIMATUR

John, Bishop of Leiria
Leiria, April 26, 1968

This gives us a glimpse of the Holy Trinity. So many in this thread have asked how there can be One God, but also a Father, Son and Holy Spirit. My only answer to you is that this is not something we can or will ever answer on earth. It is beyond our comprehension. Philosophers have speculated on this anomoly for centuries to little avail. So it really comes down to faith. Faith is not proof. Faith is believing in something without being shown a road map.

As Christ said to Thomas, "Yes, you believe because you have seen. Blessed are those who have not seen yet believe."

Scott
www.calltochrist.com
 
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