Tickling without safeword - your solutions?

[boxleitnerb]

I recently read a thread in a german tickling forum, and the discussion about safewords came up. It was argued, that a safeword might be abused by the ticklee and thus gives him/her to much control.
The dilemma is, without a safeword, how (except for coughing) do you know when to stop?
Are there any original ideas or concepts some of you might have come up with? Please post them here!

Greets
boxleitnerb

 

[OscarTheMonkey]

The only good way to avoid a problem with that is to know your partner very well. And- since it is rare to be doing any serious tickle torture on the first date- you should have some time to figure out your partner.

 

[boxleitnerb]

Oh it was not meant for personal reasons. Just a theoretical issue. Yet practical advice from people who have actually dealt with this problem would be most appreciated.

 

[Ticklerguy4u]

It was argued, that a safeword might be abused by the ticklee and thus gives him/her to much control.

This is a joke right? The lee is always in control per say. It is her/his body that is being the object of abuse whether tickle of otherwise. It makes me laugh when lers act like the lees should just be a personal little doormat for them. There is no argument for a safeword.

Its necessary..or using your telepathic powers is another but since that isnt possible i say use the safeword. To me it seems that the ones complaining about a safeword are "control freaks" that just want to ABUSE the previledge given to them by a lee. I would advise any Lee to stay clear of any ler that won't give that option. It means that he/she is not willing to give you any way out when tied up. If you want to get realistic. The law could come into play with this.

 

[KoocheeKoo]

I recently read a thread in a german tickling forum, and the discussion about safewords came up. It was argued, that a safeword might be abused by the ticklee and thus gives him/her to much control.
The dilemma is, without a safeword, how (except for coughing) do you know when to stop?
Are there any original ideas or concepts some of you might have come up with? Please post them here!

Greets
boxleitnerb

I'd never restrain and tickle a lady unless we have a safeword established in case she panics, feels ill, or reaches her limit; in fact, I rarely even wait for her safeword....always stop to make sure she's okay anytime I sense she's in distress. I only tickle ladies whom I love and care for; utilize caution at all times (because I have a couple health problems of my own [asthma; high blood pressure] and appreciate them utilizing the same concern and caution for me).

Tickling can be great fun (or erotic fun) for both lee and ler, but if taken too far, can become torture and/ or dangerous....when it comes to someone I care for, I never take chances.

 

[isabeau]

I don't like safewords, myself. It makes it seem fake that a victim would be saying "Stop! Oh, please stop!" when, if they actually meant it, they'd be saying, "Red!" or "Butterscotch!" or "Rumplestiltskin!" or whatever their chosen safeword is.

I have, however, discovered my own solution to the problem. Being an utter sadist, yet not wanting to cause a heart attack, I now allow safewords, but make sure that the 'lee knows that if they use it, they will suffer some other punishment that they do not want to endure. For example, "If you accumulate 3 safewords - whether sincere or not, you'll be denied orgasm for a fortnight."

You won't hear the safeword very often after that.

T.

my my you are sadistic aren't you? but i like that idea..

the only time i've been tickled, we didn't have a safeword.. he was a very good ler, who knew when to stop,however we only had an hour so i wasn't tested beyond my limits.. it would be interesting to see just where my limits are..

 

[boxleitnerb]

To all the people here who would think, it is abuse not to use a safeword:
The discussion was started by a ticklee herself, that I know. In fact, she pointed out the thing isabeau was talking about, being, that she wanted really to get pushed to the absolute limits. And having a safeword may hinder that goal, especially if it slips accidentally.
The best solution obviously would be a physical indication, that the limit is reached. A similar thing has been done with pleasure:
I remember reading something about how you could measure the pleasure of a woman by looking at lubrication and muscle spasm intensity of the vagina.
However, I think it would prove almost impossible to do such a thing for tickling.
Sanctions have been discussed as an idea as well, but these are mere stop-gap measures and no actual solutions to the problem.

 

[BLUE_THUNDER]

my my you are sadistic aren't you? but i like that idea..

the only time i've been tickled, we didn't have a safeword.. he was a very good ler, who knew when to stop,however we only had an hour so i wasn't tested beyond my limits.. it would be interesting to see just where my limits are..

i am pretty confident i could get you to use your safework in under an hour isabeau. in fact ill bet on it. luvs ya anyways though as always. peace.........BLUE_THUNDER



"listen lady this is a police emergency so dont give me any static...."

 

[isabeau]

i am pretty confident i could get you to use your safework in under an hour isabeau. in fact ill bet on it. luvs ya anyways though as always. peace.........BLUE_THUNDER



"listen lady this is a police emergency so dont give me any static...."

my my we are confident aren't we? lol i do have a safeword, just never had the opportunity to use it.. but i have heard that a really good ler can tell when the lee is in distress

 

[KoocheeKoo]

To all the people here who would think, it is abuse not to use a safeword:
The discussion was started by a ticklee herself, that I know. In fact, she pointed out the thing isabeau was talking about, being, that she wanted really to get pushed to the absolute limits. And having a safeword may hinder that goal, especially if it slips accidentally.
The best solution obviously would be a physical indication, that the limit is reached. A similar thing has been done with pleasure:
I remember reading something about how you could measure the pleasure of a woman by looking at lubrication and muscle spasm intensity of the vagina.
However, I think it would prove almost impossible to do such a thing for tickling.
Sanctions have been discussed as an idea as well, but these are mere stop-gap measures and no actual solutions to the problem.

It may not be abuse (if the lee is willing), but IMO it isn't wise to tickle someone restrained and unable to escape without a safeword (or some way of letting the ler know they're in trouble). As I said, there are a myriad of health problems which can be triggered by too much stimulation/ stress; I've suffered asthma attacks from uncontrollable laughter; my mom died at age 41 from an aneurism triggered by high blood pressure.

It would be very interesting to see the results of just how high a "lee's" blood pressure & heart rate become while she's enduring tickle-torture to/ beyond her limits while restrained; IMO it would be to the danger zone in some (esp folks over 40 or who have heart or vascular issues).

 

[boxleitnerb]

That is exactly the point: To find a subsitute for the safeword.

 

[rhiannon]

Okay, I am the ticklee who originally started the conversation about the safeword-problem. 🙂 Maybe I should clarify a little what I mean.

The normal reaction when you get tickled without being restrained is to ask the tickler to stop, and I know a lot of ticklers enjoy exactly that: A begging ticklee.

But why would I beg? 🙂 Whenever it gets unbearable, I have the safeword and I will use it. I am looking for something to keep me from using it until it gets absolutely 100% necessary.

 

[BLUE_THUNDER]

i read once where using something like the 'lee holding onto a ball or something, and dropping it when that "point" was reached here on the forum, but im not certain that would work as a 'lee might be thrashing around too much. and obviously anyone with high blood pressure or other such health issues must take that into consideration as well, but any decent 'ler worth his or her feathers should be able to tell when enough is enough and stop. it is a thin line between "just beyond limitations" and just plain "too much", so in any circumstance its always about having mutual respect. as always just my 2 cents worth. peace......BLUE_THUNDER

 

[SlaverTickler]

Peeing or Crying..

If a lee pees or starts too cry it's a good sight that it's time to stop. So I'd say the "Pee or Cry" method is best.

 

[rhiannon]

I would say that at the point where I pee or start to cry I am well beyond the point when it is enough! To be honest I would probably be at a point where I would never want to be tickled again! 🙂

 

[kis123]

I would say that at the point where I pee or start to cry I am well beyond the point when it is enough! To be honest I would probably be at a point where I would never want to be tickled again! 🙂

Sounds like a good response to me! I'm mostly ler who occasionally switches (for that very special person) and wouldn't dare want to make my lee use the bathroom on themselves. The crying could be a natural reaction to the tickling so unless I saw too much distress, that wouldn't overly worry me.

The only way to know the safeword isn't being abused/over-used by the lee is by getting to know the lee over time and learning what his/her limits really are. Then you can use the knowledge to your advantage during play. If you know that they're wimping out or trying to top from the bottom, you can make them pay for their little tricks! 😛oke3:

 

[SlaverTickler]

I wouldn't make a lee pee...

What I am saying is, bring them to the point where they haveto pee, and then stop. If a lee started to cry it would most certainly be time to stop, this is tickling not great sex. The only time it's good that a woman cry's is after she has an orgasm .

 

[maniactickler]

Simple solution...ignore them!

 

[Strider]

Well, I've only engaged in play without safeword (in more than just tickling) with two people. Both of whom I knew well enough to understand their limits (and also to understand when they might have been wanting to go a little bit past them). Look, edgeplay is intense, and erotic as hell, but I don't reccomend it if it's just with a casual playmate.

 

[Oddjob0226]

Get the lee to hold a pinpong ball, tennis ball, or similar such thing. When it gets intense, the ler can grash that ball. When it gets too much, drop the ball and that's the signal to stop stop STOP for real.

 

[Ticklerguy4u]

To all the people here who would think, it is abuse not to use a safeword:
The discussion was started by a ticklee herself, that I know. In fact, she pointed out the thing isabeau was talking about, being, that she wanted really to get pushed to the absolute limits. And having a safeword may hinder that goal, especially if it slips accidentally.
The best solution obviously would be a physical indication, that the limit is reached. A similar thing has been done with pleasure:
I remember reading something about how you could measure the pleasure of a woman by looking at lubrication and muscle spasm intensity of the vagina.
However, I think it would prove almost impossible to do such a thing for tickling.
Sanctions have been discussed as an idea as well, but these are mere stop-gap measures and no actual solutions to the problem.

That's fine..but at least it should be up to the lee not the ler whether to have a safeword. If a ler decides it then , in my opinion, he is just power-hungry.

 

[Redmage]

I recently read a thread in a german tickling forum, and the discussion about safewords came up. It was argued, that a safeword might be abused by the ticklee and thus gives him/her to much control.
The dilemma is, without a safeword, how (except for coughing) do you know when to stop?

The first question to ask is, "Too much control for whom?" In other words, this is not an absolute issue. For many, many people the increased safety outweighs the control it gives to the bottom. For me, as a Top, I prefer a safeword with someone I'm not very familiar with, because it gives ME more freedom. I don't need to be watching the bottom every minute to make sure I don't miss something crucial.

What this argument is really saying is that the person who doesn't like safewords doesn't like being <i>expected</i> to give up that much control. Let's face it - someone who is tied up and being tickled has no more control than the tickler chooses to give up. So the Top who complains about this is really complaining about what he or she is being asked to give, not about any control that the bottom actually has.

It also means that such a Top is playing with a bottom that he or she doesn't really trust The whole idea that the bottom has "too much control" means "I'm worried that the bottom might use the safeword before I'm ready to stop." I'm assuming that any responsible Top would want to stop if the bottom was really in trouble, so that complaint means that there's concern that the bottom might try to stop things when it's not necessary to stop. That's a trust issue, not a safeword issue.

There is no substitute for a safeword. Or to put it another way, there are many ways to give a safe signal (such as dropping a small ball, as Oddjob suggested), but they are not substitutes: they all do the same thing. You either have one or you don't. The only way to do without one safely is to learn your partner very, very well. And even then you both have to accept that mistakes could happen. So I would say that the solution is to play with people who are comfortable with the same power balance you're comfortable with.

 

[LindyHopper]

I don't like safewords, myself. It makes it seem fake that a victim would be saying "Stop! Oh, please stop!" when, if they actually meant it, they'd be saying, "Red!" or "Butterscotch!" or "Rumplestiltskin!" or whatever their chosen safeword is.

I don't like fake begging either, but I disagree that "Oh, please stop!" is necessarily insincere. I have a safeword, and have never used it. I have, however, begged and pleaded on several an occasion. A great tickling session, for me, starts with touches that tickle, but that I can stand well enough to hold still and/or stay quiet. It then progresses to tickling that makes me squirm and giggle whether I want to or not. Gradually, the intensity escalates until I'm laughing freely, and feeling quite overwhelmed by all the sensations. Eventually, I honestly do feel like I can't stand any more... and that's when the begging starts. And it is completely sincere. A safeword just means more to me than that - it means that I really can't take any more, and you have to stop right now. I wouldn't use it lightly, which is why your "solution" (punishing the 'lee for using a safeword) rubs me the wrong way. For me at least, my injured pride would be punishment enough. In addition, I feel that if I ever need to use my safeword to prevent a medical emergency or other unfortunate event, then that "doesn't count." I really don't think you should discourage a 'lee from protecting her own health and safety. You should trust her to be sincere in her safeword use. And she, in return, should actually be sincere.

The normal reaction when you get tickled without being restrained is to ask the tickler to stop, and I know a lot of ticklers enjoy exactly that: A begging ticklee.

But why would I beg? Whenever it gets unbearable, I have the safeword and I will use it. I am looking for something to keep me from using it until it gets absolutely 100% necessary.

My suggestion would be to let the natural reaction of begging come, because hey, the 'lers do love a begging 'lee. 😉 And then remember, whether or not you say your safeword at any given moment is a choice you get to make. If you want to be pushed to your absolute limit, don't say your safeword! Don't say it until you absolutely have to. If you really want to be pushed, then I don't guess you'd need any more than your own motivation to prevent you from safewording out when you don't really mean it. 🙂

 

[Goodieluver]

Its always an issue of trust

With my 'lee, i know not to go overboard and am very careful. I did institute a rule that after she says the safeword we stop and take a break for x amount of minutes then resume. The only kicker is the safeword cant be used for 5 mins minimum after resuming. But naturally if things would go south, i would stop immediately, gratefully thats never occured tho, supposed to be fun for both

 

[Capnmad]

Even with the slightest doubt, always use a safeword. If however, you know a person very well, changes in affect might be enough, dependent upon context. I was tickling a friend of mine once in L.A., (no bondage involved, mind you -- half-wrestling, half-tickling) and there was a very clear point when her behavior changed between laughing and struggling, and having had too much. The timbre and quality of her voice changed distinctly, as well as expression and posture, whereupon I stopped. In my context, that was clear enough. In a bondage context, though, it may be more difficult to discern. Nevertheless, I could only imagine you would have to know the person quite intimately as the levels of intensity of response may lose some of their distinction. Good luck, but play safe.