To my fellow Californians

[Celtic_Emperor]

Governor of California, republican Arnold Schwarzenegger, has won re-election and will be with us for a second term. His victory was pretty much assured against democrat opponent Phil Angelides (often mocked as SCANDALedis), as was further cemented by the result poll results, very early on. (Arnold getting over 60% of the votes and Phil getting 33% or so).

What are all my californians thinking about this, if anything? Good decision? Bad decision? Did democrats drop the ball, or did the Republicans simply dominate this election?

 

[tickle_x-pert]

Governor of California, republican Arnold Schwarzenegger, has won re-election and will be with us for a second term. His victory was pretty much assured against democrat opponent Phil Angelides (often mocked as SCANDALedis), as was further cemented by the result poll results, very early on. (Arnold getting over 60% of the votes and Phil getting 33% or so).

What are all my californians thinking about this, if anything? Good decision? Bad decision? Did democrats drop the ball, or did the Republicans simply dominate this election?

Personally, I prefer seeing Schwarzenegger in the movies, only. TX

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

Personally, I prefer seeing Schwarzenegger in the movies, only. TX

For the sake of getting a conversation out of this, which was the point in making the thread, would you mind expanding on that?

 

[HOLLYWOOD]

whether you like the terminator or not, at least you get sunny weather, hot ticklish babes, and hollywood all year long out in california

 

[Umojar]

Meh, I think he was doing fine. Seems like people are giving him so much shit just because he's a celebrity, not because he was necessarily doing a bad job. Plus, a lot of the problems we were having weren't his fault anyway.

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

I had made this topic on several sites I'm on, and one of the points I've made is that people thought that because he is/was a celebrity he wouldn't be well-adjusted or capable of performing the duties of a government official, and that cannot be farther from the truth.

The democratic attempt to link him to George W. Bush, Iraq, etc, was pretty pathetic, and he won his re-election anyways. He has proven results that cannot be denied, and he's for securing our border.

Thats the one thing that I'm more concerned about these days, is the border. Alot of problems would be easier to control if we were limiting and controlling better the illegal immigrants who are slipping through, making families here, and populating our country rather than their own.

Alot of people are saying that Mexico is simply sending us their poor, and that is not far from the truth. I had also said elsewhere that I'm tired of us being Mexico Jr. We keep conceding more territory and creating propositions which are ultimately to accomidate the illegals and guess whose paying for it.

Yes, I believe that if we step up control at the border and have better ways of dealing with illegals, alot of the tension (all over the board) will decrease in the coming decades.

Recently, we had that new border fence bill pass and it was approved by democrats and republicans alike...but...now that the democrats have more power in the house and senate, its possible that they may try to cancel it, and, instead, lean more towards using more "digital fences" (ie- cameras, motion detectors, etc), rather than ACTUAL FREAKING FENCES!

If the new fence still goes through, its an ACTUAL FENCE, and it would cover over or up to 800 miles and is created in such a way that it cannot be climbed easily or at all because it's sloped near the top. Its also heavily reenforced, so coyotes and drug smugglers cannot just blow it open. It is also within the budget, which also comes with more manpower at the border.

*****TOPIC ENDS HERE. RANT STARTS HERE. READ WITH CAUTION OR DON'T AT ALL*****

I don't mean to sound racist, but I'm getting sick of every 9 out of 10 people I see being mexican, no matter where I go. Its not that I mind them being there, but the ratio is disgusting to me and is a sign of the problem and imbalance. Mexicans are now in places they never would be or could be before, but they're taking over, literally. Businesses pop up, it creates mexican interests in the city, which causes more mexicans to flock to these places and reside in them (because they see they're being accomidated), and then the black, whites, and other ethnic groups are forced out of these areas because of the influx and have to pay for expensive homes up in the hills and shit or pay ridiculous rent on new appartments in fancy areas they don't necessarily want to be in because the mexicans are transforming cities and are moving in and creating run-down ghettos within decades..or no...vatios (or however you spell it), as is the mexican equilvent with the drugs, gangs, and all the shit niche areas produce. We end up having to surrender entire halves of cities for them. Mexicans have large families, so they populate areas quicker than any other ethnic group, so they even have too much sex. Which is stupid, because they're poor and cannot afford more children. Can anyone scream WELFARE ABUSE?

Instead of more malls and better stores which we could afford otherwise, we build more swapmeets and lower-end shit to accomidate them and their corn-on-the-cob stands, and crap.

It should be maybe 5 out of 10 people, not 9 out of 10. I honestly cannot remember the last time I saw a black person. It might have been the day before yesterday. But, come on, I should be able to see a black person every day, and more than one. Asians? They're almost non-existant, except for at the mall, which, you guessed it, is flooded with mexicans too, buying shit they cannot even afford (shit we're ultimately paying for through their welfare), and letting their children run around unattended and causing commotions and ruining property and bumping into people and screamin' and howllin'!

To quote one Charlie Brown- "GOOD GRIEF!" 😡

 

[juggernaut]

I don't think that sounds racist, it's just factual. I'm as far from racist as it gets, but I still get similar notions sometimes. If you wanna come over and do it right and be a productive part of a society, this is the place to do it. If you're poor in America, it's because you've chosen to be. It's irritating to see people come in here and just sit on their dumb NON-ENGLISH speaking ass and watch the country adapt to them. Here you can do anything you want. And the more you act neglected, the more the US will step up to meet you.

But this is just something you can put at the top of the list of things you can't do shit about. I moved into a neighborhood in '98 that was predominantly white. I didn't move here for that reason, but it's convenient to everything and was pretty nice. Over the last couple years, our counties have spent our tax money to build better public housing and now the shit is flowing upstream into our perimeter. An asshole is an asshole in any color, but right now, we're getting alot of [to be PC] African American bums that are settling in. I work with a real melting pot, play sports with everyone, can enjoy being in church with everyone, etc. But crap is crap, and the crap right now is the young black families with 8 kids. I went to a Dairy Queen about three miles down the road last month and I drove back through what looked like the fucking Million Man March. The people and kids I'm talking about here are the ones that look like their about 18 years old and they're still riding bikes and sitting in groups of 5-6 on the road without the fucking sense to move when a car comes near them. They sit and stare at you like you have some nerve driving on the road where they're trying to sit with two shirts flung over their shoulder, their shoes untied ,and their asses showing. The police records are public knowledge and you can see for a fact that 80%+ of the crime is committed by them, but you're just not allowed to s-a-y it. I used to think I'd have a couple kids here and I've checked out the school districts and taken steps toward that in the past, but I'm honestly gonna move within two years. I wouldn't feel safe letting my kids out of my sight the way things are going. I'd like to think I could let them walk down a few blocks to a public park, but there's no way now.

To echo Vlad again... I'm not racist in the least. My life has had me interacting with all cultures and I enjoy them all. But it happens all over the country and I'm tired of being one of the people that compromise and pay for things so someone else can come here, maybe not even speak the language, and go through life with a catchers mitt on both hands.

"Just once I'd like to get from my car to the office without being confronted by the decay of western society! - Jim Carey, Liar Liar

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

Yeah. I grew up around blacks hispanics, some asians, and some whites. Hell, I'm half hispanic myself. This isn't even an ethnic issue. Economically, socially and even geographically, illegals and even legal riff raff are tearing this state asunder and our local governments are just pulling down their pants and bending over for these people.

They literally are taking over and pushing the middle-class up against a wall and further marginalizing those who are already marginalized. Fringe groups gave Arnold alot of shit when he was supporting the Minute Men (an organization that volunteers to patrol the borders), yet those people fail to see what this is necessary. If the damn state isn't going to do anything, the people are more than willing to. And, again, its not a race issue, since the Minute Men are made up of men and women that are white, black, asian, and even hispanic.

I seriously question whether theres a future for me in this state. More and more the stereotypes are being proven true, and its so bad theres little to no need for discretion anymore. Its stupid to try and tip-toe around this issue or talk about it in a way thats not even the least bit contemptable.

They're like a disease and they're killing this great state like a cancer.

 

[TheChameleon]

I don't think it has much to do with america, at either rate, or those people. You should look at it from they're perspective too, not that i don't agree with you on some level.

In Mexico, there are no free checks, there are no free rides, and there isn't a school system you could be proud to send your children to. (for free)

Well, you could just hop skip, and illegally tresspass into america, and they HAND OUT MONEY?! Shit... why not? I'd do it.

Don't blame the people, don't blame the illegal immigrants themselves... they're only doing what any American (illegal or otherwise) would do and thats take whatever they can, for as cheap as they can. (Thats Capitalism at its finest, boys and girls)

Heck, I blame it on Capitalism, I blame it on NOT having a giant wall. I blame it on Poverty in Mexico. I blame all our problems on the easiest thing to blame them on.

The american people.

We call the shots, don't we? We vote these people in to office, we voted Bush, we voted Arnold, (well, not me, haha) and yet, when it comes down to it, not enough of us make intelligent enough decisions to have the country ran the way we want it.

I blame the american people.

 

[Umojar]

😵...

Good god. It just got real in here. I guess I'll rant too then!

I live in California so basically, so just about anywhere you live is gonna be predominantly hispanic. My area specifically is mostly black(since when is black not PC anyway?) and hispanic, and we tend to have race wars at the high schools in the area from time to time. I dunno wtf they can possibly be fighting about. Just goes to show ignorance in the ghetto though. I can't see what the fuck either side would have against the other.

But I have to say even though you guys may not be racist, the statements you're making are. It may seem like it because you live in California, but hispanics are far from taking over the country. White is still the dominant race in terms of numbers in the rest of the US. I don't have the statistics, but I know most illegals that do come here end up working for min. wage(usually less), and a lot of times aren't even payed legitly. You can't get very far without being able to speak english here, no matter where you go in the US. The only problem I have with this issue is that people coming to this country should learn the language. That shouldn't even be debatable. However. I also know that if WE ALL had to take these tests to become legal citizens of the country, not many would pass. So, the way I see it, if a person is willing to learn the language of this country and come all the way from there to do well here, it should be fine. It's not something just anyone can do.

As for the 2nd comment, if there's anything that I've learned from living in a bad neighborhood, it's that you can't tell who's committing what by how they look or dress. You can't say they're committing 80% of the crimes because you don't know. That's only speculation. I understand that what you guys are saying may apply to some of these people but making broad generalizations isn't the answer. If you feel like you have to tack on "but I'm not racist" at the end, it usually means what came before it is better left unsaid.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

. So, the way I see it, if a person is willing to learn the language of this country and come all the way from there to do well here, it should be fine. It's not something just anyone can do.

This isn't a discussion about any immigrant who comes here and makes something good of themselves. Its not to stop legitimate immigrants from coming in and having a chance. Its about controlling the influx and rooting out the undesirables and the bottom-feeders, namely illegal immigrants, the people who harbor them, the people who offer illegitimate/illegal employment, coyotes, drug smugglers posing as immigrants, etc., etc.

Also, this isn't a general topic on immigration. I had meant it to be in concerns to California. California obviously has it worse than other states, as we're a border state, so the issue is withstanding and will continue to be until the problem stabilizes.

Furthemore, the later half of my post was a rant and vent and wasn't actually meant to be responded to, which is why I labeled it as apart from the topic.

 

[Oz_Monk]

isn't anyone going to blame the morally bankrupt corporations that are undercutting the american worker in favour of $2 an hour mexican labour? rich corporate america does not give two shits about blue collar working america and would gladly kill you all and sell your organs if it would benefit their shareholders (to quote Dilbert).

if i was living in a shithole like mexico i would hella want to jump the fence to America. let's be realistic, if the situation was reversed you would see a flood of poor americans flooding south of the border to work in shoe factories for bottom dollar prices to increase the profit margin of mexican companies.

 

[juggernaut]

😵...
As for the 2nd comment, if there's anything that I've learned from living in a bad neighborhood, it's that you can't tell who's committing what by how they look or dress. You can't say they're committing 80% of the crimes because you don't know. That's only speculation. I understand that what you guys are saying may apply to some of these people but making broad generalizations isn't the answer. If you feel like you have to tack on "but I'm not racist" at the end, it usually means what came before it is better left unsaid.

Just my 2 cents.

No. It's not speculation. It was just publicized on our local tv and like I said, all of this stuff is public record and easily available to look up yourself. Being willing to call a spade a spade isn't racist, it's honest. If where I live there's a group of the same black kids robbing the convenience stores time after time, I'm not obligated to say that it's mostly the black families when the stores hadn't been robbed in over 7 years and every time they look at the surveillance tape... guess who. I'm not making racist statements, I'm saying that all over the country, different demographics are taking over certain areas. It's been happening since the founding of the country. In my particular area right now, it just happens to be young black families with low income. People migrate. The next place I move could be a different group. The only way to avoid it is to move further out of the suburbs into a more rural area.

As for the way they dress... I didn't say a kid with his shirt over his shoulder and his ass showing is a criminal. I said they don't have the sense to get off the road when they see cars coming. History has proven at TT that someone will eventually champion the cause of some thread and start handing out racist labels, so I'm gonna do the smart thing and bow out. Since this was a thread about California to begin with, I shouldn't have stepped in anyway. My apologies Vlad.

 

[RedMan01]

Orale

I am going to set the record straight, if I'm banned from this forum, fuck it

Firstly Vlad most of us CHICANOS, are actually born in America (hence the zoot suit tradition), most of us latinos (not hispanic, I am NIcan tlaca, an Indian not a Spaniard) are the majority in Aztlan (the area that was stolen by the US, most white people don't want to do the jobs we do, for instance we have to cook your food, make your items, and work for next to nothing, while our women are treated as prostitutes and our culture is stolen from us.

We are expected to be ashamed of our heritage, we are denied our own languange. In the treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo we are allowed residence in America without you guys saying anything. You are a racist Vlad, don't come with this I'm hispanic shit with, you could white, black or mixed or part Indian and still be considered Hispanic as said before I am not of Spanish Descent.

East LA has always been a CHicano area, you drove us there when you kicked us out of west L.A and now rape it away with your building andtaking away of Mexican culture. We area anyway the amjority and always have been. In Mexico you exploit us, and steal our childrens lives then you drive us Aztecas way from Tenochtitlan and Chihuahua then we come here.

If really want to devate this go to Chicano.org and we discuss completely

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

I know that alot of chicanos are born in america. I don't see what that has to do with illegal immigrants.

I don't know whose cool-aid you're drinking, but no american here is telling you that you ought to be ashamed of your culture. Now you're just talking nonsense.

Don't think giving me a history lesson changes anything. You don't impress me with this knowledge.

You have no grounds with which to call me a racist. You are picking and choosing what you want to hear and faulting me for things that are only true.

You are obviously too angry for your own good to be issuing me a challenge, especially as this comes long after this thread was over. Don't think you can just revive something old and expect someone to suddenly give a damn again or agree to your terms and don't think that you're somehow in the driver's seat. You haven't given me any reason to grant you that other than you're mexican and you're angry and thats just not good enough.

I refuse your offer. Sorry, amigo.

 

[Wade1]

It's to be expected that people will nail your remarks as racist, since you're focusing in part on the skin color and cultural background of the people you see around you. But to me it reads not as racism but rather as fear of change. I mean, let's face it: no community remains static forever. If the current demographic makeup of your place of residence is incompatible with your comfort level, there may not be much to do but move--say, to northern California, or southern Indiana.

Personally, I understand the practical need for immigration regulation, but given the way in which we Americans wound up on this continent I'm never very comfortable with the attitude that screams "Get out, this is OUR sandbox now!!"

 

[RedMan01]

You don't impress me with hating of my race, you claim I am merely angry and you forget how you hate us MExicans are 9 of 10 in America, you complaim about barrios, but they've been here before yyou.
We are the original peoples of the land us indians before clolumbus came and raped our people. You expect us to use english, stop being mexican and not ahve niche stuff, same guys who usually scream the shit you do are scared of us "wetbacks (as you so coyly call us).

Come show you are a human and come debate with Chicanos

QUE VIVA LA RAZA!

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

Come show you are a human and come debate with Chicanos

QUE VIVA LA RAZA!

ROFL!

 

[DarthGrinn]

I must say I'm very unfamiliar with the topic of the thread; but it is taking an interesting turn. Once again I find Wade's post making a lot of sense... and Redman01's posts entice me to look up some info on the subject matter. I should definitely learn more about the history of my country (being an American living abroad has made me rather lazy about this)

It seems to me that the very nature/history of America will continue to cycle around and bite itself in the ass...

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

The thing is, we are/were talking about California. Thats a topic within a topic, since California is affected by illegal immigration in different circumstancial and dynamic ways than the rest of the country. If others wish this topic to continue, I'd appriciate if the topic not deviate from californian affairs. The issue is very specific onto California, so opinions may deviate if they're not coming from californians or at least people with a working knowledge on how the California system works.

I know it can be tempting to go off limits into the broader end of the topic or feel excluded because you may not be a californian, though. If that is the case, then someone else needs to make a seperate thread for that so the broader needs are met.

My guess is, it won't happen. If it does, I hope people have fun and enjoy exchanging their thoughts.

 

[Wade1]

Indeed, particularly southern California, if I'm not mistaken. Ya won't have any trouble bumping into whites and Asians in Santa Cruz or Berkeley.

The hotly contested (and aggressively conducted) races in Arizona this past election season also revolved heavily around the subject of immigration, where it's just as palpably a day-to-day issue.

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

In California news, two american border patrol agents (who themselves are hispanic) are on trial and may go to prison soon for recently shooting an illegal immigrant drug smuggler in the ass. Literally, in the ass.

These men are patriots and I cannot believe this sickness!

There was a woman who put her baby in an oven that was on and burning, and she was only charged with child neglect, and here we have two americans doing their appointed jobs, and because the system is now bending over to Mexico, they're on the wrong side of the law, now?

This is sick. No american, democrat, republican, moderate, whatever, would, in their right mind, condemn these men for trying to stop a DRUG SMUGGLER.

This sickness is part of what's breaking this great state down! Our californian government doesn't know whether its coming or going anymore; its on the flip-flop. I can only hope that these men get out of this horrible situation they're in, before they're killed by the mexican mofia groups and their wives and children are targeted too. They're not going to have a good time in prison if they have to go there.....not that anyone has a good time, but, you know.

 

[Wade1]

Well, let's be fair: just because someone's an illegal immigrant drug smuggler doesn't mean it's automatically legal to shoot him in the ass. And just because someone's trying to stop a drug smuggler doesn't mean he can do anything he wants. It all depends on the details of the case and whether the border patrol did in fact behave illegally in the course of trying to stop a drug smuggler. Maybe they didn't--I wouldn't be at all surprised--and therefore deserve exoneration. I don't know the context.

But the mere fact of the existence of the prosecution is not in and of itself evidence of injustice,

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

I'm well aware of that. Its news to me, but just hearing it is pretty unbelievable.

 

[asutickler1]

Pffft... You think you have problems with illegal immigration over in California? We're damn near swimming in illegals over here in AZ. :umm: