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Top 10 mistakes men make with women

Cav88

TMF Expert
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Nov 1, 2003
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I'd like to know people's opinions about this article, particulary women and how true this is.


The Ten Most Dangerous Mistakes YOU Probably
Make With Women
And What To Do About It...

Here Are The Top Ten Reasons Why Men Fail With WomenAnd How To Make Sure YOU Avoid Every One Of These Deadly Common Mistakes...

-By David DeAngelo, Author Of Double Your Dating

MISTAKE ..1: Being
Too Much Of A Nice Guy

Have you ever noticed that the really attractive women never seem to be attracted "nice" guys?

Of course you have.

Just like me, I'm sure you've had attractive female friends that always seemed to date "jerks"... but for some reason they were never romantically interested in YOU.

What's going on here?

It's actually very simple...

Women don't base their choices of men on how "nice" a guy is. They choose the men they do because they feel a powerful GUT LEVEL ATTRACTION for them.

And guess what?

Being nice doesn't make a woman FEEL that powerful ATTRACTION.

And being NICE doesn't make a woman CHOOSE you.

I realize that this doesn't make a lot of logical sense, and it's hard to ACCEPT... but GET OVER IT.

Until you accept this FACT and begin to act on it, you'll NEVER have the success with women that you want.

MISTAKE ..2: Trying To
Convince Her To Like You"

What do most guys do when they meet a woman that they REALLY like... but she's just notinterested?

Right! They try to "convince" the woman to feel differently.

Well, I have news for you... YOU WILL NEVER CHANGE HOW A WOMAN "FEELS" WHEN IT COMES TO ATTRACTION!

Never, ever, EVER.

You cannot CONVINCE a woman to feel differently about you with "logic and reasoning".

Think about it.

If a woman doesn't "feel it" for you, how in the world do you expect to change that FEELING by being "reasonable" with her?

But we all do it.

When a woman just isn't interested, we beg, plead, chase, and do our best to change her mind.

Bad idea. One that will never work.

MISTAKE ..3: Looking To Her
For Approval Or Permission

In our desire to please women (which we mistakenly think will make them like us), us guys are always doing things to get a woman's "approval" or "permission".

Another HORRIBLE idea.

Women are NEVER attracted to the types of men who kiss up to them... EVER.

Don't get me wrong here.

You don't have to treat women BADLY for them to like you.

But if you think that treating a woman well means "always getting her approval and permission for things", think again.

You will never succeed by looking for approval. Women actually get ANNOYED at men who seek their approval.

Doubt me? Just ask any attractive woman if Wussy guys who chase her around and want her approval annoy her...

MISTAKE ..4: Trying To Buy Her Affection With Food And Gifts

How many times have you taken a woman out to a nice dinner, bought her gifts and flowers, and had her REJECT you for someone who didn't treat her even HALF as well as you did?

If you're like me, then you've had it happen a LOT.

Well guess what?

It's only NATURAL when this happens...

That's right, I said NATURAL.

When you do these things, you send a clear message:

"I don't think you'll like me for who I am, so I'm going to try to buy your attention and affection".
Your good intentions usually come across to women as over-compensation for insecurity, and weak attempts at manipulation. That's right, I said that women see this as MANIPULATION.

MISTAKE ..5: Sharing
How You Feel Too Early In
The Relationship With Her

Another huge and unfortunate mistake that most men make with women is sharing how they "feel" too early on.

Attractive women are rare.

And they get a LOT of attention from men.

Most men don't realize this, but attractive women are being approached in one way or another ALL THE

An attractive woman is often approached several times a DAY by men who are interested. This translate into dozens of times per week, and often HUNDREDS of times per month.

And guess what?

Attractive women have usually dated a LOT of men.

That's right. They have EXPERIENCE.

They know what to expect.

And one thing that turns an attractive women off and sends her running away faster than just about anything is a guy who starts saying "You know, I really, REALLY like you" after one or two dates.

This signals to the woman that you're just like all the other guys who fall for her too fast... and can't control themselves.

Don't do it. Lean back. Relax.

There's a much better way...

MISTAKE ..6: Not Getting How Attraction Works For Women

Women are VERY different from men when it comes to ATTRACTION.

You need to accept this fact, and deal with it.

When a man sees a beautiful, young, sexy woman, he INSTANTLY feels a sexual attraction.

But does the same apply for women?

Do women feel sexual attraction to men based mostly on looks? Or is something else going on?

Well, after studying this topic for over five full years now, I can tell you that women usually have their "attraction mechanisms" triggered by things OTHER than looks.

Have you ever noticed that you see a lot more average and unattractive men with beautiful women than the other way around?

Think about it.

Women are more attracted to certain qualities in men... and they're attracted to the way a man makes them FEEL than they are to looks alone.

If you know how to use your body language and communication correctly, you can make women feel the same kind of powerful sexual attraction to you that YOU feel when you see a hot, sexy young woman.

But it's not an accident. You have to LEARN how to do this.

And ANY guy can learn how...

MISTAKE ..7: Thinking That It
Takes Money And Looks

One of the most common mistakes that guys make is giving up before they've even gotten started... because they think that attractive women are only interested in men who have looks and money... or guys who are a certain height... or guys who are a certain age.

And sure, there are some women who are only interested in these things.

But MOST women are far more interested in a man's personality than his wallet or his looks.

There are personality traits that attract women like a magnet...

And if you learn what they are and how to use them, YOU can be one of these guys.

YOU DO NOT have to "settle" for a woman just because you aren't rich, tall, or handsome.

Let me say this again: If you know how to use your body language and communication correctly, you can make women feel the same kind of powerful sexual attraction to you that YOU feel when you see a hot, sexy young woman.

MISTAKE ..8: Giving Away
All Of Your Power To Women

Earlier I mentioned that it's a mistake to look to a woman for approval or permission.

Well, another similar tactic that a lot of guys use is GIVING AWAY THEIR POWER to women.

Said differently, guys try to get women to like them by doing whatever the woman wants.

Another bad idea...

Women are NEVER attracted to men that they can walk all over... Women aren't attracted to Wussies!

MISTAKE ..9: Not Knowing
EXACTLY What To Do In Each
Type Of Situation With Women

Now I'm going to blow your mind...

A woman ALWAYS knows what you're thinking.

Women are approximately TEN TIMES better than men at reading body language. That's ten TIMES.

I know, it might be hard to believe. But for example, if you're out on a date with a woman, and you want to kiss her, she knows it.

And if you don't know exactly what to do and exactly HOW to kiss her, and you just sit there looking at her and getting nervous, she won't help!

And this goes for ALL aspects of women and dating...

Approaching a woman, getting her number, asking her out, kissing her, getting physical... everything.

If you don't know what to do in each situation, you will probably screw it up... and LOSE EVERYTHING.

And you KNOW it.

It is VITALLY important that you know EXACTLY how to go from one step to the next with a woman... from the first meeting, all the way to the bedroom.

MISTAKE ..10: Not Getting HELP

This is the biggest mistake of all.

This is the mistake that keeps most men from EVER having the kind of success with women that they truly want.

I know, guys don't like to make themselves look weak or helpless. We don't like to ask for help.

Hey, I've been there myself.

Let me tell you a little about me and how I figured out how to be successful with women...

About five years ago I became fed up with the fact that I didn't know how to approach, meet, and get dates with women that I was attracted to.

It frustrated the hell out of me.

One night I was out with a friend, and I saw a woman I wanted to ask out, but I just couldn't get up the nerve to do it. I can still remember that night... right on the spot I made the decision to do whatever it took to learn how to be successful with women and dating.

Well, after a lot of hard work and trying all kinds of crazy things, I finally figured it all out.

I can now approach just about any woman and get her number almost instantly. I've dated models, I've dated actresses, and I've dated nice, normal, regular girls as well.

It has been a very rewarding experience. I no longer feel that sick, insecure feeling... like I don't know how to meet women... and I might wind up alone.
 
Cav88 said:
MISTAKE ..1: Being
Too Much Of A Nice Guy

So true... lol

Cav88 said:
MISTAKE ..2: Trying To
Convince Her To Like You"

Good point again...

Cav88 said:
MISTAKE ..3: Looking To Her
For Approval Or Permission

True again. The trick here is that you don't "ask" for permission. You take note of body language instead. If a girl acts like she's attracted to you, then she usually is. You have to know what to look for, and you have to find a balance between seeming interested but still secure with yourself.

Cav88 said:
MISTAKE ..4: Trying To Buy Her Affection With Food And Gifts

Women definitely see it as manipulation, because let's face it... They tend to be masters of manipulation. Ok, sorry... I know that was misogynistic, but it was all in good fun... 😉

Cav88 said:
MISTAKE ..5: Sharing How You Feel Too Early In The Relationship With Her

This one is SO true. Anyone who has seen "The 40 Year Old Virgin" probably remembers the following snippet about how to attract a girl.

"Questions... be cool, and be kind of a dick..."

"Here, be David Caruso in 'Jade.'"

Cav88 said:
MISTAKE ..6: Not Getting How Attraction Works For Women

It involves maintaining a balance of confidence and style. My brother is apparently very good at it. You don't want to come off as overconfident OR apologetic. Also, you have to know how to dress. Fashion isn't all-encompassing, but it has a definite importance for many women.

Cav88 said:
MISTAKE ..7: Thinking That It
Takes Money And Looks

This is true, but... Money and looks do get you a lot further than they really should -- not that I would know, of course. I just see it in a few friends of mine.

The trick here is that the women who are really worth getting involved with are the ones who have an appreciation for trustworthiness, personality, intelligence, and a sense of humor. Likewise, these women exhibit these traits themselves. The hard part is finding one that is both available and interested in you.

Of course, it still helps to have looks, money, and style -- just like it helps women.

Cav88 said:
MISTAKE ..8: Giving Away All Of Your Power To Women

I need to explain this to a married friend of mine. He's definitely whipped. Granted, he may prefer that....

Cav88 said:
MISTAKE ..9: Not Knowing EXACTLY What To Do In Each
Type Of Situation With Women

Ah yes... the perceptive powers of women. It must be nice to have that "social" gene that women reputedly have.

Cav88 said:
MISTAKE ..10: Not Getting HELP

Advice from the right person is always nice.

I just wanted to make a small note here, though. If the thought of being alone makes you insecure, then that's an issue unto itself. Being single does have its advantages. It gives you time to think things through, and it is MUCH cheaper to live unattached. At least, for me it's been that way. However, I may be involved after this weekend....
 
Cav88 said:
MISTAKE ..1: Being
Too Much Of A Nice Guy

This particular issue makes me insane. Men seem to have decided that women don't like nice guys. The truth of the matter is, we're not necessarily going to want to go out with you just because you're nice. There are a lot of factors in play. I think most women will agree that nice (defined as considerate, compassionate, polite when needed, and friendly) is required for a long term relationship.

MISTAKE ..2: Trying To
Convince Her To Like You"

Well sure- this isn't going to work for anyone, regardless of gender.




MISTAKE ..3: Looking To Her
For Approval Or Permission

IMO, I'm ok if he looks to me for approval in some cases, just as I would look to him for approval in some- that's a matter of respecting someone's opinion or their superior knowledge on a particular topic. But no, I don't want any one to look to me for permission and I'll be damned if I'm gonna look to anyone for permission.

MISTAKE ..4: Trying To Buy Her Affection With Food And Gifts

Agreed. Won't work. I'm not sure I would have a conscious thought that someone was trying to manipulate me, but it certainly won't improve their image. Here's something that worked for me....knowing how much I really like Coors Original on draft, and knowing how rare it is around here, my date found a place that had it and took me there for dinner. And it was $2 draft and all you can eat shrimp night! No big expenditure there, but HUGE in terms of points.

MISTAKE ..5: Sharing
How You Feel Too Early In
The Relationship With Her
This is a tough one. If both parties are feeling the same thing, you're golden and sharing is good. But overall I'd say it's better to hold off on declaring undying love in the first few months whether you're a guy or a girl.


Attractive women are rare.

Have to comment on this. Clearly this man (not I did NOT say gentleman) feels attractive women are rare because he thinks only physical qualities make someone attractive. He's a loser.

MISTAKE ..6: Not Getting How Attraction Works For Women

This statement might be true but his bit about a guy "learning" how...bugs me. Either you've got the qualities that attract a particular woman or you don't. Learning how to attract a women smacks of manipulation and game playing to me.
MISTAKE ..7: Thinking That It
Takes Money And Looks
True. It does not take money or looks- assuming the woman is worth her salt anyway.

MISTAKE ..8: Giving Away
All Of Your Power To Women
Absolutely true. No human being should ever give all of his or her power to another person.


MISTAKE ..9: Not Knowing
EXACTLY What To Do In Each
Type Of Situation With Women

Interesting. While I don't think men can logically be expected to know EXACTLY what to do in any situation, I will admit that confidence is attractive.
MISTAKE ..10: Not Getting HELP

True. Just ask for directions if you don't know where you are, for cryin' out loud.
I can now approach just about any woman and get her number almost instantly.
I think he's lying.
 
MISTAKE ..3: Looking To Her
For Approval Or Permission


OK um........................... your not talking about Italian girls then.

Kust
 
David DeAngelo is a pioneer on women and attraction! Synthesizing David's techniques with my own techniques have really boosted my performance in mingling with women. The best way to really understand women is to pay attention to them and how they socialize with you. People treat other people the way they want to be treated! You also learn a lot about your feelings and how you react to them. Do not ignore your feelings because they are so important in understanding women!

Procreation is the number 1 reason why men and women socialize. If you have difficulty with sex you will have difficulty with women. Forget applying any of David's techniques with women until your own issues with sex are taken care of! When I first started learning David's theory I began applying the techniques and got immediate action! The action was so immediate that I wasn't ready for it due to the lack of experience in being pursued by women as often and consistent in the past.

If you choose to study David DeAngelo's theory on women and attraction, just remember that with great power comes great responsibility! Oh, and 1 more thing!

YOU JUST COMMITTED MISTAKE #3 BY POSTING THIS THREAD AND ASKING WOMEN FOR THEIR APPROVAL ON THIS TOP 10 MISTAKES THEORY!
 
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I agree with Lynn on most points, and yes the guy kind of sounds like an ass but alot of the points are true in most cases.
 
Stugots said:
YOU JUST COMMITTED MISTAKE #3 BY POSTING THIS THREAD AND ASKING WOMEN FOR THEIR APPROVAL ON THIS TOP 10 MISTAKES THEORY!


There approval? I asked for there opinion.

And thanks for the replies, it was an interesting read. Pity about italians girls, they are hot!
 
german said:
MISTAKE ..3: Looking To Her
For Approval Or Permission


OK um........................... your not talking about Italian girls then.

Kust

Or Irish girls.
 
It all boils down one thing.

The author of the article made 10 'rules' out of one basic fact that includes evry point he made except for number 10.

Points 1 thru 9 all boil down to this; women are attracted to men whom they percieve as dominant. Dominant towards women, dominant vs other men.

Point number 10 was tacked on to try to sell a book he wrote.

If a man is strong enough (I do NOT mean physically) and dominant enough, he can BE a nice guy and still attract women. The idea that women don't go for nice guys is a myth.
You have to break the stereotypes;
be macho WITHOUT being an asshole about it.
Be strong without being callous.
Be dominant without being cruel or abusive.

Ever hear the old proverb that only the truly strong can be truly gentle? It works, and it has attracted women since the species climbed down from the trees to walk on the ground!
 
I'm going to put it a little more gently than Mastertank did. I believe that confidence is sexy. You can be confident without being dominant - you don't have to be the person with the most power in the room. You just have to be sure of yourself, secure that you are a worthwhile person with something to offer, and avoid seeming anxious in your opening moves with a woman.

I'll also point out that what this guy has to say has a lot more relevance to initial attraction than long-term relationships. Yes, in the hitting-on stage, the confident, dominant, possibly aloof guy has the advantage. But long-term success is about sharing feelings, and power, so the "nice guys" are way ahead.

Oh, and lk70's right - the guy sounds like he's probably an ass. I don't think I'd want to date him. 😛
 
#11. saying I do before you turn 50.

This sound like some Dr. Phil / Oprah crap. Man's make mistakes just breathing depending on the mood of the woman.

You take all this time trying to please and pleasure your woman, just to find out that you really can't. Ladies have more issuses than man but they are excellent in making you think that you the one with the problem.
 
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It would seem before anything is said that physical looks can attract and body gestures can speak very clear . It may not always be that people , males and females seek the qualities they have , but qualities or inqualities they dont have . Some people know themselves very well and will look for exactly what they need , while others may not go this way but go with more random choises . There are all kinds people with different sets of values . so a certain gender is not always going to take a particular route . Attraction between two people can be instantaneous or grow from being friends first . Common intrests or lifestyles can be important parts . Getting together for a first time can be for lunch or dinner after work. I myself like dates I can spend the day with them , like hiking in the mountains or going to the beach . We can start out with breakfast , have a picnic for lunch and stop somewhere for dinner. If we get along well it can become something more meaningful .People male and female can either do things right towards a person or not and we all feel that as individuals we have worth and should be treated as we do .
 
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So the ideal man

LindyHopper said:
I'm going to put it a little more gently than Mastertank did. I believe that confidence is sexy. You can be confident without being dominant - you don't have to be the person with the most power in the room. You just have to be sure of yourself, secure that you are a worthwhile person with something to offer, and avoid seeming anxious in your opening moves with a woman.

I'll also point out that what this guy has to say has a lot more relevance to initial attraction than long-term relationships. Yes, in the hitting-on stage, the confident, dominant, possibly aloof guy has the advantage. But long-term success is about sharing feelings, and power, so the "nice guys" are way ahead.

Oh, and lk70's right - the guy sounds like he's probably an ass. I don't think I'd want to date him. 😛

would be a genuinely nice guy who also has justified self confidence?

Makes sense to me.
 
LindyHopper said:
I'm going to put it a little more gently than Mastertank did. I believe that confidence is sexy. You can be confident without being dominant - you don't have to be the person with the most power in the room. You just have to be sure of yourself, secure that you are a worthwhile person with something to offer, and avoid seeming anxious in your opening moves with a woman.

Agreed. The term "dominant" tends to turn me off a bit. Confident is more accurate I think. Dominant is good at certain times 😉 but not all the time.
 
Mastertank1 said:
So the ideal man....would be a genuinely nice guy who also has justified self confidence?

And a nice ass.
 
Oh, darn!

lk70 said:
And a nice ass.

Missed out again. Well, they say two out of three ain't bad?

Seriously, the reason I used the word dominant in this case was not for the usual sexual connotation, but to describe a social phenomenon which I have observed all over the USA and wherever else in the world that I've traveled.

First, let me say I'm NOT making a generalization about women here. By my observation, every woman is different; some pay attention to the best looking guy, some to the seemingly most affluent, some to the one with the best sense of humor, some to the brainiest, some to the most macho, some to various combinations of those qualities, etc. etc.

BUT...If, in any social setting there is one male who visibly recieves more respect and deference FROM THE OTHER MALES than any other male in the group, the number of women who pay attention to HIM is generally more than half of all the women present.

I think it's the ancient human female instinct to be attracted to the Pack Alpha Male. Not because they necessarily want him to dominate THEM, but because he is dominant in a non-sexual way over the other men.

I would seriously love to hear some comments on this observation of mine from any of the women here on TMF.
 
Mastertank1 said:
BUT...If, in any social setting there is one male who visibly recieves more respect and deference FROM THE OTHER MALES than any other male in the group, the number of women who pay attention to HIM is generally more than half of all the women present.

I think it's the ancient human female instinct to be attracted to the Pack Alpha Male. Not because they necessarily want him to dominate THEM, but because he is dominant in a non-sexual way over the other men.

I would seriously love to hear some comments on this observation of mine from any of the women here on TMF.

I'm going to have to think about this. Do you think perhaps women pay attention to different things depending on their age? Or a 20 year old woman and a 40 year old woman are both going to be attracted to the man who is getting respect and deference from other males.

You know what? Just in typing this I don't buy it. I can only speak for me but I can't say I've ever been attracted to that type. In fact that type makes me think of arrogant men who shoot their mouths off. I prefer the more quietly confidant type.
 
That's the kind I'm talking about.

lk70 said:
I'm going to have to think about this. Do you think perhaps women pay attention to different things depending on their age? Or a 20 year old woman and a 40 year old woman are both going to be attracted to the man who is getting respect and deference from other males.

You know what? Just in typing this I don't buy it. I can only speak for me but I can't say I've ever been attracted to that type. In fact that type makes me think of arrogant men who shoot their mouths off. I prefer the more quietly confidant type.

The guys who shoot their mouths off a lot do NOT get respect and deference; they usually get resentment and avoidance!

The guys I'm referring to do about ten times as much listening as speaking, but when they do speak, the other guys really pay attention. They command the respect and deference quietly, just by being who they are, not by verbally demanding it.

Guys who do try to verbally demand respect get finger flips behind their backs if they're lucky, ugly verbal confrontations if they're not. And the only attention women pay them is to pointedly ignore them!

As to age, I've seen the quiet Alphas get attention from women much younger up to their own age or a little older, but not from women clearly older than they are. Don't have an explanation for that; I can think of many possibilities, all of which are probably valid for different people.
 
I'm a sucker for nice guys. :smilelove :idunno:
Where is this from anyway?

XOXO
 
I think these 10 points are too complicated, too much thinking.

My Italian teacher she give me the first best advice about women:
"If she does not like you...she does not deserve you"

Al Pacino give me the second best, the one thing all women like is a man that hows how to dance (Scent of a woman), if you are going to do something learn how to dance. And tango is umbeatable, I did the effort I will never regret it.

Rod Stewart give me the third "Some guys have all the luck, some guys have all the breaks, some guys have nothing but complains".
 
This caught my eye so if I may come up from the stories section and allow me to impart an opinion please.

This list could be considered guidelines and might be successful for a lot of guys. I dont think it would work for me. People are far too complex men or women. Some guys it works to be sensetive and women see it as being sincere and it attracts them, conversely for some guys it works to act like the Fonz and it works for them. To have every guy follow some set of rules is to rigid and thats why I dont believe in these "Doctors" and their self-help books for 7.99. Women are all very different people and all seek very different things. If your providing that thing at the moment you meet then bang! its a hit. More often than not its a miss though and thats ok. Ted Williams hit .400 but thats still .400 out of 1.000 so thats a lot of failed opportunities yet hes thought of as one of the greatest hitters in baseball history. To ask a quiet shy guy to start being Tony Montana is unrealistic...its like having Muhammad Ali box like George Foreman. The most success I ever had with women is just by a friendly honest smile and saying hello. From there you can see if theyre interested, shy, fun loving, dont want to even look at you, etc. You have to be yourself at some point what works for me is just packaging myself in the best way possible. Just my opinion from a guy who was horrible with women then went to being good and then found one he wants to stay with. Now I shall submerge myself ala the Lochness Monster to the stories section. Thank you. 😀
 
Ethical Edward said:
This caught my eye so if I may come up from the stories section and allow me to impart an opinion please.

This list could be considered guidelines and might be successful for a lot of guys. I dont think it would work for me. People are far too complex men or women. Some guys it works to be sensetive and women see it as being sincere and it attracts them, conversely for some guys it works to act like the Fonz and it works for them. To have every guy follow some set of rules is to rigid and thats why I dont believe in these "Doctors" and their self-help books for 7.99. Women are all very different people and all seek very different things. If your providing that thing at the moment you meet then bang! its a hit. More often than not its a miss though and thats ok. Ted Williams hit .400 but thats still .400 out of 1.000 so thats a lot of failed opportunities yet hes thought of as one of the greatest hitters in baseball history. To ask a quiet shy guy to start being Tony Montana is unrealistic...its like having Muhammad Ali box like George Foreman. The most success I ever had with women is just by a friendly honest smile and saying hello. From there you can see if theyre interested, shy, fun loving, dont want to even look at you, etc. You have to be yourself at some point what works for me is just packaging myself in the best way possible. Just my opinion from a guy who was horrible with women then went to being good and then found one he wants to stay with. Now I shall submerge myself ala the Lochness Monster to the stories section. Thank you. 😀


Oh thank GOODNESS! There are reasonable people out there. Thank you Edward- I couldn't have said it better.
 
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