• If you would like to get your account Verified, read this thread
  • The TMF is sponsored by Clips4sale - By supporting them, you're supporting us.
  • >>> If you cannot get into your account email me at [email protected] <<<
    Don't forget to include your username

USA in DEEP SHIT now

Amnesiac

2nd Level Red Feather
Joined
Oct 13, 2002
Messages
1,262
Points
0
I read this today...

`Most of the Iraqi private sector was put up for sale yesterday.'' For that startling bit of news you would have had to read The Times of London. Almost nobody took notice in the United States when Iraq's occupation government -- run by U.S.-picked worthies -- enacted laws allowing foreigners to buy 100 percent of Iraqi's nonenergy business and finance.

The Wall Street Journal, one of few U.S. media to pay attention, was less plain-spoken than the Brits and respectfully reported initiatives to create ``a low-tax economy offering wide access for foreign banks and businesses.''

The measures were disclosed Sept. 21 before International Monetary Fund meetings in Dubai by, fittingly enough, the U.S. delegation. Foreigners will be allowed to own 100 percent interest in any Iraqi company outside the energy industry. Up to six foreign banks will be permitted to purchase 100 percent of Iraqi banks over the next five years; thereafter there will be no limits on foreign ownership of Iraqi finance.

The rules allow for direct investment, not just joint ventures with Iraqis. No need for government approvals. Nor will there be restrictions on repatriating profits, dividends or royalties back to the home countries of investing companies. Money will leave Iraq freely.

Despite the country's devastated health and educational systems, taxes will be low. The current tax holiday will continue until year's end. After that, income taxes will be no more than 15 percent, even for Iraq's richest. Import duties will be 5 percent. These measures will ensure U.S. and European manufacturers unfettered access to Iraqi consumers.

That's for the private sector. The fate of the huge, corrupt Ba'athist-era state-owned enterprises is still being planned.

Ambitious privatization plans are said to be in preparation, under which those companies -- on which many Iraqis depend for employment in a country with a jobless rate of 50 percent -- would be sold off, almost certainly to foreigners.

The energy sector is specifically excluded for now, but oil remains the Holy Grail of the wealth of Iraq.

''Of course the oil sector will not be, at this stage, there for foreign investment,'' U.S. National Security Advisor Condoleezza Rice told a Sept. 22 press briefing. ``But I'm sure that just like everybody else, people want to see the oil sector work, and they'll want to invest.''

The moves to open up Iraq coincide with the U.S. diplomatic push to recruit international help with pacification and reconstruction, and the timing suggests that with political support can come economic rewards.

To be sure, Iraq is in desperate financial straits. Atop reconstruction costs estimated at $100 billion, its officials estimate foreign debts of $130 billion, including an overhang of $30 billion in reparations owed Kuwait from the 1991 invasion.

Still, a U.S. official in Baghdad told Agence France Presse that although security is still a concern, ``you can make money in a country like Iraq. You don't need to have everything perfect to make money.''

So now that the Iraqi calf has been slaughtered and gutted, it's time to carve up the carcass.

What of the political consequences? Already, the Iraqis appear more willing to host a guerrilla war than to tolerate a military occupation, even one that might seem benign. What happens when they face economic colonization, too, and realize that liberation means that their employers reside in London, New York and Houston?

No attention, no debate

One Baghdad monetary expert told AFP: ``The measures which have been announced will lead to foreign domination over economic decision-making and largely sign away [Iraq's] independence.''

Soon, others will pick up that theme. And the jihadists outside Iraq who cynically embraced Saddam Hussein as a nationalist hero, what greater gift could they ask for but real evidence that the war has delivered the Iraqi economy to the mercies of U.S. and European capital?

These are hugely important policies, decided by unelected officials operating under the direction of a foreign occupier -- itself insulated from public scrutiny by news media that either can't, or don't choose, to examine the potential consequences. No attention, no debate, no discussion.

Once again we, the public, will find ourselves ambushed by the furious response to actions that we had never had a chance to consider, let alone approve.

- Edward Wasserman of the Miami Herald


History buffs may recall the effect WWI war reparations had on the population of Germany...and how they reacted to them.

If this article is accurate, this is the start of something very, very bad...and I have a feeling it's going to get much worse, very , very soon.
 
Uh...

The Germans were defeated in a vicious war, one they helped cause. There is no direct comparison.

Legally the US has no obligation to rebuild Iraq. I've always found it odd the US is the only country to ever rebuild another after a war of aggression (something started after WW2). Yet we're banged for wanting to do the same for Iraq. Fact is, those people had a simple choice. Oust Hussein, they now must face whatever hand is dealt them.

Wasserman by the way has always been very lose with facts, making some up as he sees fit.

Tron
 
Ugh, that is just sickening. It's bad enough that so many people are making money out of this war (arms dealers, media...), but making it so that huge companies can own everything that might make money in Iraq is just plain un-settling.

Its always been my opinion that terrorists (and enough of the middle east) hate America for actual reasons (and not something like differences in religion or anything). And also that bombing them (like so many times before) was never going to remove any of that hatred. And I also find it hard to believe that Iraqis are going to appreciate for any real length of time having their dictator removed so they can live in poverty and become foriegn slave labour for Western countries.


Legally the US has no obligation to rebuild Iraq.

Coincidently... has it been confirmed whether the US had any legal reason to invade Iraq in the first place? Apart from general Xenophobia.
 
Saddam was pushed aside so that various corporate entities can rape and pillage at their pleasure, a new colonialism of the Board Room. That's what this war was really all about. WMDs, the repression of the Iraqi people, all complete pablum and bullshit to be consumed only by those who really want to believe it, and trust me, The Bush and Dick Administration thinks we're all dumb enough to buy it. We fought this war for Bechtel and Haliburton. Period. Our boys are over there dying for Haliburton.
 
Uh Yes...

Sponsoring terrorist acts..
The fact we gave them a legal ultimatum to comply with a treaty THEY signed and they refused to do so..

Odd, the Arabs didn't hate us till the Brits left. Fact is, virtually everything they had, we built. Almost all their water comes from US Technology GIVEN TO THEM in the mid 70s. I'm wondering if the best thing to do is just destroy the desalination plants we financed and built, then let them go from there.

If Iraq had said ok. You've shown up, we wil overthrow a terrorist government, then their country wouldn't be a mess right now.

Fact: When the US tells you to do something you'd best jump. That's the way of the world, and that's the way it should be.

Tron
 
Fact: When the US tells you to do something you'd best jump. That's the way of the world, and that's the way it should be.


And, just what world might we be talking about here? 🙄
 
The world of make believe like the one found in the movie Pleasantville..LOL
 
Well it certainly ain't Pepperland, but his world sounds like it's bit salty round the edges...
 
Might be the country of Canada...or Toronto. :blaugh:

Cheers.😀

P.M.S. Tron, you still owe me a supernatural ghost story, dude.
Duuuuuude!!
 
Since the rise of Nazi Germany, countries no longer have the "right" to be ruled by ruthless dictators. If the opportunity to destroy a horrific dictatorship arises, it should be taken.

After the slaughter of the Kurds, the torture of Iraqis, and the invasion of Kuwait, pacifistic rhetoric against the invasion of Iraq is nothing more than wishful thinking.

Those who assail the U. S. for its actions either benefited economically from the Hussein Dictatorship (like France, Germany, and Russia), or believe that dictators can be controlled / punished without force (ask Neville Chamberlain how well that works).

The US has embargoed Cuba for 40 years and Castro is still its dictator. Dictators love diplomacy, it gives them time to strengthen their armies and stranglehold on their country.
 
Sponsoring terrorist acts..
The fact we gave them a legal ultimatum to comply with a treaty THEY signed and they refused to do so..

What legal ultimatum are you referring to Un resolution 1441 ?

If so then I would like to point out that 1441 also had in it a second resolution would need to be discussed if Iraq was in breach to agree on what "serious consequences would mean". Also the members of that governing and legal body “the UN security council” were 3 to 2 against the war (US, UK for France, Russia and China against).

I wouldn't recommend trying to use the UN as a legal or in fact for any argument (it always has been a joke and most good for aid to poor nations and taking in western cash).

Odd, the Arabs didn't hate us till the Brits left. Fact is, virtually everything they had, we built. Almost all their water comes from US Technology GIVEN TO THEM in the mid 70s. I'm wondering if the best thing to do is just destroy the desalination plants we financed and built, then let them go from there.

Your right that is odd, considering we Brits are very bad rulers. Perhaps there is a lot more to it than is being left out. And on the matter of destroying all the stuff you have given to the Arabs to help them out do you really believe that removing them will really make the situation better and not worse?
Their rulers will still be in power and despite how bad the country would get with more poverty and their people dying I get the feeling they will support their dictator rulers even more and turn even more hatred towards the US.

If Iraq had said ok. You've shown up, we wil overthrow a terrorist government, then their country wouldn't be a mess right now.

Are you sure the Batth party was a "terrorist" party. Iraq was ruled by a ruthless dictator not a fully-fledged terrorist. But you are right if the people of Iraq welcomed and invited us in there wouldn't be a mess. However they didn't invite or welcome us and rather many of the Iraq people see us as another Dictator and unlike Sadam they also see us as an outside conqueror.

Fact: When the US tells you to do something you'd best jump. That's the way of the world, and that's the way it should be.

Interesting "Fact" you have their. Do all Americans support this view ?. And when the rest of the world ignores this "fact" what then, you destroy the world with your Nuclear/chemical/biological weapons ?. What about ideals such as Freedom and Free speech (you know the kind that doesn’t have a gun to your head} or does that only apply to the US and the rest of the world is to be crushed and ruled under your boot?. and I love the end "tha'ts the way of the world, and that's the way it should be." You would love to believe that’s the way of the world but no that’s the way of a conqueror how believes that they have the right to rule. I believe that the world has many ways and what it should be that we put our differences aside and learn to come together. We defend the weak and stand up for Justice. We bring freedom to those who don't have it and defend Freedom when it comes under threat.

Since the rise of Nazi Germany, countries no longer have the "right" to be ruled by ruthless dictators. If the opportunity to destroy a horrific dictatorship arises, it should be taken.
so dictators are ok so long as they are not "Ruthless" ?
I believe Dictatorship is wrong and while there is a clear difference between some of the Dictatorships out their, I feel in the end every person has the "right" to be free. Interesting word you use "Opportunity" since the US is the only Super power it has the opportunity to remove all the "Ruthless" dictators in the world but I don't see it going after China, North Korea etc.

After the slaughter of the Kurds, the torture of Iraqis, and the invasion of Kuwait, pacifistic rhetoric against the invasion of Iraq is nothing more than wishful thinking.
And the world did deal with that it was called the "Gulf war" where we freed Kuwait and send Iraq packing. We limited their weapons and to protect the Kurds for years kept a "no-fly zone" in Iraq, Hardly Pacifistic rhetoric. But I suspect you are referring to the current war interesting how you call us the "Invaders". Please tell me what gives us the right to invade another Country but when Iraq does it. Its wrong ? (and do try and come up with a answer other than we can or the US rules the world). Or you can look at it as we didn't "Invade" Iraq but removed a dictatorship and have messed up the rest.

Those who assail the U. S. for its actions either benefited economically from the Hussein Dictatorship (like France, Germany, and Russia), or believe that dictators can be controlled / punished without force (ask Neville Chamberlain how well that works).

Only those 2 reasons ? Well first off I very much doubt its the first, since by assailing the US and not supporting it during the war they lose out in any economic compensation and also lose in rebuilding Iraq after the war. The US is the world’s richest economy by a long shot and could easily give those who helped it more than what the Hussein Dictatorship ever could.
The second argument also doesn’t hold firstly Nazi Germany openly broke the rules opposed on it and rearmed (they didn't do this in secret or hide the fact), the rest of Europe appeased the Nazis in every move they made. What open move has Saddam made ? If you are going to say WMD then I would like to point out that France, Germany, Russia, US and my country the UK did do something they sent weapon Inspectors in to determine if Iraq had disarmed or was secretly rearming. This is the means these countries agreed to take and also the method to determine if Iraq did indeed have WMD (and not UK or US intelligence reports, if they wanted to they that should have been the means and not UN weapon Inspectors). did the UN weapon Inspectors find anything ?

No I think their are more reason to countries such as France, Germany, and Russia oppression to the war. Perhaps one reason is that that there are a democracy and as such the parties in power want to stay in power. In France and Germany the anti war movement is very large and both countries have strong opposing parties. The current government might simply be doing what the voters want and see supporting the war as Political suicide. But again their are probably many backdoor reason that we will never know about for such actions.

I myself did support the war but what I don't like is the reason for war and the way my country has handled it. The war was argued on the basis that Iraq had WMD and that it is a possible threat to the western world. But even before the war started Countries like North Korea had stared openly developing Nuclear Weapons. The evidence that was shown regarding WMD was weak and had many holes in it. On the reason of going to war because of WMD then I would have been against the war. My country agreed that UN weapons Inspectors would make the determination and when things weren’t going its way turned around and said Iraq does have WMD we have Intelligence information from the US and ourselves that shows this but we can't show you as its "classified". "yeah right".

I would have been happier if we turned around and said Iraq is ruled by a dictator and after the events the 9/11 the free world will no longer take the sideline to such people and will remove them. I don't see the ends justifying the means (ie we removed a dictator but on the reason of WMD) the means must also be true.

Also I don't like the way my country and the US is handling the current situation. The reason for the war is over WMD so why are we still here ? (do we believe the might still have some tucked away somewhere). or has it now changed to "free Iraq" ? (if so we should free them rather than "rule them with a military governor"). Hold elections in Iraq then when they are under Democratic Government we offer to rebuild (but with our terms) if they accept we come in and help if they refuse leave them to themselves. The way I see it is we are scared to give them democracy as they will vote in a religious government that will be anti-west but if that’s what they want we should give them the liberations that was is now what we are saying part of the war was about.

After WW2 the US did rebuild countries, which was a first but I believe one of the reason why it worked is the countries where given freedom first and accepted the offer of aid. If we continue to rule Iraq and make its decisions for them they will resent and hate is even more for it. To be honest I don't envy our current leaders as if they do what there doing you can see where it will lead and if they give Iraq freedom it will become a religious state which isn't any better and to be honest I fear that the real problem is their might not be a answer 🙁.
 
Re: Uh Yes...

Neutron said:
Sponsoring terrorist acts..
The fact we gave them a legal ultimatum to comply with a treaty THEY signed and they refused to do so..

I'm wondering if the best thing to do is just destroy the desalination plants we financed and built, then let them go from there.

I think we did, didn't we? the RAF and USAF knocked out several water processing facilities during the first and second wars. Tron, did you ever read the bit about the Geneva Convention I quoted in one thread that quite literally describes what we did as a Class A war crime?

Neutron said:
If Iraq had said ok. You've shown up, we wil overthrow a terrorist government, then their country wouldn't be a mess right now.

Those people trying to drag down the asshole's statue looked pretty happy to me. Much more so than when they'd had the rough end of an AK47 wedged in their nether passage.

Neutron said:
Fact: When the US tells you to do something you'd best jump. That's the way of the world, and that's the way it should be.

Tron

And I'm sure you find my lack of faith disturbing. :dogpile:
 
Tron, when you said that's the way of the world, and it's how it should be says to me you think like a bully, a dictator. you see, that's the problem. America is a big bully who wants every country to see things through their own eyes and if not, we'll go to war and destroy you. What is wrong with this picture? That is why we have so many enemies, always trying to tell people how to live. It is a individual's choice how to live, not some aggressive country's beliefs. And we are still forgetting the real reason we went to war and a lot of innocent soldiers killed: to feed this country's corporate greed. they are fighting over oil, people. Let's wake up. the real enemy is North Korea, but i don't see the big bully coming over there.
 
Nice quotes in your sig FFP. What about the all-time classic delivered when he was talking about the American educational system?

"What we gotta ask ourselves is, is our children learning?"


Remember those sick-arse experiments where they forcibly sterilised anyone in the 1950's who they thought would pollute the gene pool with stupid children? Looks like they missed one...
 
Last edited:
god this is so borring

same shit different day with you folks.
when will you get a real life?
same stuff all the time, right out of mao's little red book.
the evils of the u.s.. god knows what you'd be like w/o the u.s.

steve
 
Re: god this is so borring

areenactor said:
same shit different day with you folks.
when will you get a real life?
same stuff all the time, right out of mao's little red book.
the evils of the u.s.. god knows what you'd be like w/o the u.s.

steve


Now I'm gonna coment again here; for two reasons.
1/ Something someone else said to me on the subject.
2/ I'm an opinionated fuckwad. 😀
------------------------------------------------

"The evils of the US".

There is no such thing. Someone said to me in another thread...
"Last time I saw, you were accusing us Americans of killing over a million Iraqi babies."

Let's draw a line under both this and other related gripes. I accused five or six people of the above offence, all of whom have conned and deceived hard-working and honest American citizens. These 5 or 6 people happen to hold American nationality. They also happen (or happened) to hold high-ranking public office in the United States. Why then does my accusing them, amount to making a personal accusation against every individual American citizen and/or their way of life? The "average person" from the US, are the kinds of people I call my close friends on this Forum. These people have been slighted, robbed and cheated by people like the ones I accused. My making an accusation at them in no way reflects on the American way of life or the people who reside in the USA. Hell, even people I thought I'd NEVER get on with have turned out to be friends. It's equally true that people based in the UK, have done things to people that have turned my stomach. Does that mean I hate my country? No. No more than my disliking British football hooligans who get smashed in pubs and then vomit all over the pavement outside, necessitating me having to scrape them up and throw their idiotic arse in the back of a van, makes me a hater of my country.

The evils we "anti-Americans" talk about, are only connected with certain individuals or groups, who really don't care what country they come from, except where they can whip up patriotic fervour as a shield to their acts. Where would we be without people like this? We'd be fine, thank you very much. Saddam and Osama wouldn't have existed, because the intelligence agencies operating on behalf of "our" countries wouldn't have set them up, and there'd be no need for wars that are little more than playing faces of against each other on a very big stage. Where would I/we be without what I consider America to be? Very bored, very trite and very miserable. It's YOU people that sum up America for me? It's YOU people who really make up the body of the country. I don't judge you on what schmuck's turn it is to sit in the Oval Office. I judge you on the basis of what I know of you as individuals. And frighteningly enough, you're scarily similar to all those other peeps out there. None of you is all good or all evil. None of you is the epitome of physical ugliness or physical beauty. None of you worry me anywhere near as much as George W. Bush does. You're all a mix of everything, from beauty to ugliness, from stupidity to intelligence, from good to evil. Quite often these factors are in constant motion within you as individuals. I know they are within me. I suspect they always will be.

Without the US we, the rest of the world, would be without your incredible optimism, outragousness and stunning ability to have a good time without any inhibitions or self-consciousness. Without the sort of people we're critiscising (irrespective of where they claim to be from) we'd ALL be a lot happier.

And as for Chairman Mao...


I'd like to take that red book...
Shine it up real nice...
Turn it sideways...


And stick it straight up his left trouser-leg!

Now all that's out the way, will someone please throw me a fuckin' beer?
smiley.toastdrink.gif
smiley.truebrit.gif
 
Hey Jim, wouldn't it be more effective if you shoved it straight up his candy ass???
 
Believe me. None of you guys knows enough to have an own opinion about that. Do you really think it's true what they're telling you? It's just propaganda. You have the opinion, they want you to have, as we all can see through Mr Neutrons post (the one with the 'jumping'). How's life as a puppet? Must be very comfy, I guess. Oh, sorry - I didn't agree with you. Do you kill me now? Or do you give me the opportunity to 'jump' first?
 
Steve, right now I'm holding one of the brand new twenty dollar bills. General Jackson says that he doubts very much that you ever read Mao's 'Little Red Book', so why would you refer to it in the first place?
 
ice i had a tested i.q. of 128 in the 4th grade.

i have been estimated as being in the genius level now.

knox, i did read mao's little red book. now i didn't go cover to cover, but it was one of the books we studied in a political science class i took in collage... so there😛

big jim. i actually wasn't talking to you. the people i had in mind were trpak, and our own little shinning ice. there is a u.s. hater or the worst stripe.

steve
 
now we're talking 'bout IQs....ugh
I guess I'm way too stupid for any more contributions to this thread

:sowrong:

I'm off


Oh, just one more thing about your: 'What would you be like without the US.' I wonder where the first US-people came from....:idunno: So what would YOU be, my friend of true intelligent conversation
 
trepak, don't leave!

this is getting interesting.
i only mentioned my i.q., due to ice's derogatory remarks concerning them.

as to your question; where would i be if? well easy, i wouldn't exist! cause your father, or grandfather, or neighbors, would have killed my parents, along with the rest of my family that died in german camps during world war 2. see i'm jewish. i don't blame you, or hal, or maurder personally for what happened to my extended family. but you asked, so i am answering truthfully.

now take the case of germany. with out u.s.a. involvment, germany would most likely have won ww1. the german high command would not have needed to send lenin back to russia to foment a communist revolution to knock russia out of the war. there would have been a better peace settlment, and hitler wouldn't have come to power, no holocost, etc. so yeah, germany, russia, my dead extended family would all be better off had the u.s.a. stayed out of ww1.
interesting isn't it?

steve
 
i scored a 131 on a recent IQ test steve. we borderline geniuses should start a new TMF category.

i someimes refer to myself as a Super Genius, using that wile - e - coyote voice.

mostly unrealted to the real content of this thread, but i thought i'd mention it.

aren't we too cool?
 
What's New

3/18/2025
Visit the TMF Welcome forum and take a moment to say hello to us!
Door 44
Live Camgirls!
Live Camgirls
Streaming Videos
Pic of the Week
Pic of the Week
Congratulations to
*** brad1701 ***
The winner of our weekly Trivia, held every Sunday night at 11PM EST in our Chat Room
Back
Top