Usama bin Laden: is he actually dead?

[JackVanderson]

Well no shit. You get to level 10, god damnit. Only a moron storms the compound at four. You'd get fucked over faster than you could say 'Jive Turkey'.

In retrospect though, once the operation was over there were more teabags then at the royal wedding.

 

[U.N.Owen]

He's dead, and I'm glad he is. And I have no reason not to believe he is, and I can completely understand every decision that went into the operation and the aftermath. There's nothing "fishy", but there's a lot that's complex. The "fishy" things happen in Tom Clancy movies, not on the real world stage. Let's move on, act like adults, take a victory graciously, understand its necessity and get on with fixing everything that got broken along the way.

Well put. Excellent post all round.

 

[Rox_My_Sox1]

One thing confuses me. How the bloody hell did they even get his body out of enemy territory?

 

[TicklishWitch1]

You know..

In an episode of South Park, they said Barry Obama wasn't actually intrested in leading the country, but instead was a master-thief that wanted access to the escape tunnel in the Oval Office because it was going under the keeping place of a super-valuable diamond. After stealing it he was supposed to leave the country, but instead chose to give the president-job a shot.

.. It's just as possible as any other conspiracy theory!

Honestly. As far as I see it, there's NO solid proof for this being neither real nor fake. All you can do is look at the things hinting towards this and that.

Example: They did not publish photos.
This is NOT A PROOF that it's all fake. It hints that they don't wanna show his dead body. WHY is another matter. It is NOT PROOF!

That they don't wanna publish photos because they don't have any because his not dead is NO T PROOF! It's a THEORY. It's a POSSIBILITY!

That is all.

 

[TicklishWitch1]

One thing confuses me. How the bloody hell did they even get his body out of enemy territory?

I don't really think there was any enemy territory (-,-)

There was only 1 big house where he was hiding. The country or city wasn't against the USA. They were more than shocked to find that one of the biggest terrorists in the world was living in the backyard of their capital city..

 

[toyoyo]

Anyone find it odd that BinLaden was not armed? Not in the sense that they shot him when he was unarmed, boohoo. But this was OSAMA! Sucka was always quoting Koran with his little AK in the background. He got soft yo!

Actually, I think he was a little too comfortable in that largest of buildings in the Pakistani intelligence HQ town. He probably thought they had his back.

 

[Inverse]

Where did you read that he was unarmed? Justification for his death and not capture was that he was firing on the Seal team. If he wasn't armed, then it was a hit, not a capture mission.

 

[Mash]

One thing confuses me. How the bloody hell did they even get his body out of enemy territory?

Right, well he was hidden in Pakistan, and I don't believe that Pakistan is considered to be enemy territory. In fact, there's a lot of controversy as to how he was able to hide under the nose of the Pakistani government...while being less than a mile away from one of their military bases.

Personally, I don't think that the Pakistani government didn't know he was there. That's like not noticing Hannibal Lector skulking inside your dog house.

 

[toyoyo]

Yes, I heard a news report this morning where the actual SEAL guys were sourced as saying he was not armed. I mean it was all business, anyone on that compound is a legitimate target, armed or otherwise, as far as they were concerned. There was some initial enemy fire, but once they were in the house, no one was armed. They just weren't expecting anything.

I am a peaceful person, but I do have firearms, that are not far from me at anytime in my home and no world superpower wants me dead. He must have had some pretty ironclad assurances he was safe.

And now I am also wondering if he actually is dead. SEALs are disciplined, they wouldn't just double tap a bad guy out of spite (which is how the report suggests it happened). Better to just grab him, kill all the witnesses and tell the world he's on the ocean floor and it's a nice tidy story.

 

[JackVanderson]

Yes, I heard a news report this morning where the actual SEAL guys were sourced as saying he was not armed. I mean it was all business, anyone on that compound is a legitimate target, armed or otherwise, as far as they were concerned. There was some initial enemy fire, but once they were in the house, no one was armed. They just weren't expecting anything.

I am a peaceful person, but I do have firearms, that are not far from me at anytime in my home and no world superpower wants me dead. He must have had some pretty ironclad assurances he was safe.

And now I am also wondering if he actually is dead. SEALs are disciplined, they wouldn't just double tap a bad guy out of spite (which is how the report suggests it happened). Better to just grab him, kill all the witnesses and tell the world he's on the ocean floor and it's a nice tidy story.

I find it funny how, much like the weather, the incident and what happened is completely different from the day before. It's like I mentioned awhile ago, we're never going to really know, just roll with what you think happened.

 

[Inverse]

Yeah~ I've never heard of clearing a house with intent to kill in a combat zone or otherwise unless they were armed. Special Forces, cops~ Rangers, SAS... they don't just clear rooms and shoot the room up unless the ROE was to murder everyone in the house.

Yeah I think I'm done thinking about this for a bit, I really hope that you're off on that report.

 

[PurpleStyle]

I find it funny how, much like the weather, the incident and what happened is completely different from the day before. It's like I mentioned awhile ago, we're never going to really know, just roll with what you think happened.

Well then in that case, I can safe assert, with a sound argument and empirical evidence:

Usama bin Laden is still alive. How do I know this? Because John Wilkes Booth (currently living on Mars) sent me an e-mail, telling me that UBL has recently joined him, Jimmy Hoffa, and several Zeta Reticulans (Roswell crash survivors), at their Martian compound.

---
On a completely less-serious note, I'd like to point out how amusing it is to see people commenting on how they think Navy SEALs would act in a potential combat situation. I'm sure you guys are all experts. :lol

 

[Inverse]

I can't say what the ROE was for the Navy Seals. I was a member of the 4BCT 1st Armored in Mosul on my second deployment. I've cleared my fair share of rooms. I didn't do much door kicking on my first.

I know it's not typical that the rules of engagement in any kind of combat zone is to acquire a human being into your sights and then pull the trigger. I've never heard of such a thing, not in a capture mission. The ROE card even for the Battle of Mogadishu can be found, where they were actually seeking to capture high profile members of Aidid's military. I've never, ever heard of those rules dictating you shoot unarmed civilians.

Of course, low level military service, police operations and the like aren't the same as something as high profile as this mission~ but the contrast is pretty grisly if we suddenly tossed something as protected as shooting armed combatants and switching to shooting people for being there just because it was Usama Bin Laden's safehouse.

I'm glad this is amusing, but I'm justified in my feelings on it. Like everyone else here, yes~ I don't know what their posture was when they went into that house~ but if what he said was true, then it was a rather hostile one. It's not typical.

 

[Dave2112]

Inverse, you're right...it's not typical. But then again, this particular unit is not typical. And it's not just Navy SEALS, either. (At least not at the head.) JSOC is almost like a 5th branch of the military, incorporating command, training and operational aspects of the other four.

I'm glad someone with military experience is posting here, btw. You know as well as I do...as well as any of us for that matter...that not each and every situation always conforms to protocol. There are always exceptions. And in this case, it's almost guaranteed that mission parameters included a kill on sight order at discretion. Considering the subject, there is ZERO room for consideration of even an unarmed (or an APPARENTLY unarmed) target.

I think we need to look back on the reporting from other major military operations and strikes. The capture of Saddam Hussein, the deaths of his sons, hell...going back to certain strikes in Kosovo...all of them had revisions to the story once the news got a hold of them. Again, as anyone in the military will tell you, initial reports of covert operation details are ALWAYS inaccurate.

Look guys, I'm the first one to demand transparency in government. But, I'm also a realist. There's a reason some operations are called "covert". Yeah, we have a right to know the Why, the What and the general jist of the How. But, realistically...there are some covert operations that you or I will never know the exact details of...and really don't need to. We know What, we know Why...does it really matter if Door X was kicked in before Door Y and if Target X showed Gun Z before Soldier W reacted? If we go down that path, then we severely affect the ability to even commit to covert operations.

The only people really concerned about the exact details are reporters and news commentators...and those who have a need to live off of them. Guy's dead. Deserved it. That's it.

 

[Rox_My_Sox1]

Usama bin Laden is still alive.

He's not alive! He's passed on! This Arab is no more! He has ceased to be! He's expired and gone to meet his maker! He's a stiff! Bereft of life, he rests in peace! His metabolic processes are now history! If we hadn't put three gaping bullet holes in his face he wouldn't be pushing up the daises! He's off the twig! He's kicked the bucket, he's shuffled off his mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleeding choir invisible! THIS IS AN EX-TERRORIST!"

 

[NeoMetalSonic50]

He's not alive! He's passed on! This Arab is no more! He has ceased to be! He's expired and gone to meet his maker! He's a stiff! Bereft of life, he rests in peace! His metabolic processes are now history! If we hadn't put three gaping bullet holes in his face he wouldn't be pushing up the daises! He's off the twig! He's kicked the bucket, he's shuffled off his mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleeding choir invisible! THIS IS AN EX-TERRORIST!"

You are amazing.

 

[Dave2112]

Today, al-Qeida itself announced the death of its leader. At least desert-rat terrorists don't have conspiracy theories. 😉

 

[Dr. Bill Kobb]

Today, al-Qeida itself announced the death of its leader. At least desert-rat terrorists don't have conspiracy theories. 😉

Of course they did! They're all in league with Obuma, the secret Muslim, in a conspiracy to DESTROY AMERICA!!!

 

[Rox_My_Sox1]

You are amazing.

I know. I should really write a book or something. ^_~

 

[Inverse]

Of course they did! They're all in league with Obuma, the secret Muslim, in a conspiracy to DESTROY AMERICA!!!

*Dramatic Inverse*

 

[PurpleStyle]

He's not alive! He's passed on! This Arab is no more! He has ceased to be! He's expired and gone to meet his maker! He's a stiff! Bereft of life, he rests in peace! His metabolic processes are now history! If we hadn't put three gaping bullet holes in his face he wouldn't be pushing up the daises! He's off the twig! He's kicked the bucket, he's shuffled off his mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleeding choir invisible! THIS IS AN EX-TERRORIST!"

Did you neglect to read the rest of my post or is this a purposeful derp?

 

[Rox_My_Sox1]

Did you neglect to read the rest of my post or is this a purposeful derp?

If "purposeful derp" is another way of saying "making a joke" then yes.

 

[desk]

Even Al Queda said he was dead. Go to a site like Jihad Watch and you will then realize how extensive this fight against terror is. The war against terror has been going on since the hijacking of the Achille Lauro in 1985. It took 9/11 for the US to finally bring the fight to them full scale.

 

[Jagermeistered]

Even Al Queda said he was dead. Go to a site like Jihad Watch and you will then realize how extensive this fight against terror is. The war against terror has been going on since the hijacking of the Achille Lauro in 1985. It took 9/11 for the US to finally bring the fight to them full scale.

Bring the fight too who exactly?