cletus-factor
TMF Expert
- Joined
- May 20, 2002
- Messages
- 316
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What I make of this:
Okay let me see if I can get the incident all clear in my mind and all down here in this forum.
Before the incident:
Whoever allowed that this person should not be reported to the proper authorities should be fired. He should have been put on a do not sell guns to maniacs list and no one would have died, the situation wouldn't have happened, and he also could still be alive. 33 live.
At the time of the incident:
The cops may be to blame partly. I don't know the exact minute by minute run down of how this all played out, BUT if the SWAT team was there before the last person was shot were they going in and shooting this guy down? If the SWAT team has on protective gear (more or less)(and their job is to get shot at sometimes) and they didn't do much of anything, then they made the 2nd mistake in this whole debacle or whoever their commanding officer who told them not to go in made the mistake and should be fired. Some of the 33 could have lived (maybe who knows).
The president of the school and the college itself did as much as it could from what I have heard. I have attended a school half the size, but still very large and wide open and this could happen and be no one's fault. At least no one associated with the school. However, I did hear an idea from my father who heard the idea on the radio. Why did they send an email to students at 8am in the morning? Don't they know that 7/10 college students are either A) still in bed at that hour, or B) to sleepy to be checking their emails? I know that myself nor any of my roommates at the college never got up and checked our emails that early in the morning. By noon maybe, but at 8am? Almost never. The idea was this: someone should have gotten a truck with a loudspeaker attached to it and drove around the campus blaring a message. Some of the 33 could have lived, maybe.
Of course I know that this all happened in 2 hours. What seems like a long time to us, did not feel like a long time to the people on scene I'm quite sure. Only the people in Norris Hall felt the real length of time. The bureaucracy of the college was scrambling to figure out wtf was going on I'm also sure. You'd be surprised at how fast 2 hours goes by when you are busy. And did they know this guy was coming to Norris Hall? I can imagine him going to the PO after (probably) shooting those other 2 people, and then walking across campus with his guns in his backpack. He would have looked like any other student and so no one would have picked him out of a crowd. The flak jacket would have been maybe a little odd, but on a college campus meh.
What I also want to examine is the people who were shot at. I am thinking that the first room he went into had no chance in hell of knowing what was about to happen, BUT how long was the time in between that first classroom and the other 2(?) rooms. Did they not have at least a good minute or two to think this over? I don't know how I would have reacted, but I think one thing I might have done was stand at the door with a chair in my hand. When he came walking into my room I'd have at least made an effort to crack his skull with it. He shoots me, oops, I missed, but if I hit him well...20 lives (?) saved. Again who the heck knows how I would have reacted, but I'm amazed at how at least 50 people just cowered under their desks. If he's already shot some people and you know this why are you thinking he won't shoot you or see you for that matter? Remember Columbine and how those 2 maniacs took people out?
I was glad to see that some people didn't lose their heads and at least tried to save others before themselves. Terrible thing that they lost their lives anyway.
Now, in the aftermath:
Wtf is up with all this let's not hate Koreans? Who the heck would be so dumb as to hate an entire group of people because of some guy who really wasn't even associated with them anymore (not since 1992?) If anyone would've been hated, to me, it would have been the family or people who up to that moment could have stopped him. The family if they had abused him somehow or some other person maybe. And the person responsible for reporting this guy to the proper authorities as I stated above.
Then we heard from the family and it's like well okay we're sorry for them because they had no idea that their son was crazy.
(Yes, I believe that the only thing that saves this guy in my book was that he must have been crazy. And to me crazy, true crazy does kinda excuse any crimes committed under that skewed mental system. It doesn't make this tragedy any easier to bear though).
And the president of the US has to make a I feel sorry for you guys speech. I'm sorry, but he's more worried about Iraq right now. Real empathy comes from us not him. Anyway...
And then we get this whole legislative ball rolling again because of something like this and it's a damned hard line for the legislators to walk. On the one hand it is absolutely true in my mind that no one who is or has ever suffered from a mental illness should be allowed to own a gun, BUT I think it's okay for someone who is not mentally ill to have a gun for their own safety especially if they live in a high crime area. As someone once put it, the police are going to be here in 5 min. and the criminal is going to kill my ass now, uh yeah I think I'll have the gun in my hand. So you see, this ball that we have rolling again is a waste of time because there are bigger issues and so many people have so many ideas about it.
Issues that have a more definable answer, such as global warming, should be getting addressed IMO.
And I'm so terribly sorry this happened. I don't want to sound like I think the people shot should have done more, but it sucks that if 5 had rushed him 27 might have lived. What if is the worst question.
This reply is solely my opinions and thoughts about this event. I am not talking in certainties here and I mean no disrespect to anyone if a Minnesotan fails to comprehend something. I would be glad to be enlightened.
It just saddens me that this happend and then it angers me that after the fact we have to play this fucking politics bullshit and try to find a scapegoat because the guy who did the crime killed himself. Damn the media. They do all right with the weather (sometimes), sports, and a few other things, but when something like this happens, they get all up in arms and make a loud announcement about it. The best thing would be to quietly figure out what happened, why did it happen, can we keep it from happening again? If so, fix it and move on. If common sense would just be used and not political haggling.
Okay I think I'm done.
Okay let me see if I can get the incident all clear in my mind and all down here in this forum.
Before the incident:
Whoever allowed that this person should not be reported to the proper authorities should be fired. He should have been put on a do not sell guns to maniacs list and no one would have died, the situation wouldn't have happened, and he also could still be alive. 33 live.
At the time of the incident:
The cops may be to blame partly. I don't know the exact minute by minute run down of how this all played out, BUT if the SWAT team was there before the last person was shot were they going in and shooting this guy down? If the SWAT team has on protective gear (more or less)(and their job is to get shot at sometimes) and they didn't do much of anything, then they made the 2nd mistake in this whole debacle or whoever their commanding officer who told them not to go in made the mistake and should be fired. Some of the 33 could have lived (maybe who knows).
The president of the school and the college itself did as much as it could from what I have heard. I have attended a school half the size, but still very large and wide open and this could happen and be no one's fault. At least no one associated with the school. However, I did hear an idea from my father who heard the idea on the radio. Why did they send an email to students at 8am in the morning? Don't they know that 7/10 college students are either A) still in bed at that hour, or B) to sleepy to be checking their emails? I know that myself nor any of my roommates at the college never got up and checked our emails that early in the morning. By noon maybe, but at 8am? Almost never. The idea was this: someone should have gotten a truck with a loudspeaker attached to it and drove around the campus blaring a message. Some of the 33 could have lived, maybe.
Of course I know that this all happened in 2 hours. What seems like a long time to us, did not feel like a long time to the people on scene I'm quite sure. Only the people in Norris Hall felt the real length of time. The bureaucracy of the college was scrambling to figure out wtf was going on I'm also sure. You'd be surprised at how fast 2 hours goes by when you are busy. And did they know this guy was coming to Norris Hall? I can imagine him going to the PO after (probably) shooting those other 2 people, and then walking across campus with his guns in his backpack. He would have looked like any other student and so no one would have picked him out of a crowd. The flak jacket would have been maybe a little odd, but on a college campus meh.
What I also want to examine is the people who were shot at. I am thinking that the first room he went into had no chance in hell of knowing what was about to happen, BUT how long was the time in between that first classroom and the other 2(?) rooms. Did they not have at least a good minute or two to think this over? I don't know how I would have reacted, but I think one thing I might have done was stand at the door with a chair in my hand. When he came walking into my room I'd have at least made an effort to crack his skull with it. He shoots me, oops, I missed, but if I hit him well...20 lives (?) saved. Again who the heck knows how I would have reacted, but I'm amazed at how at least 50 people just cowered under their desks. If he's already shot some people and you know this why are you thinking he won't shoot you or see you for that matter? Remember Columbine and how those 2 maniacs took people out?
I was glad to see that some people didn't lose their heads and at least tried to save others before themselves. Terrible thing that they lost their lives anyway.
Now, in the aftermath:
Wtf is up with all this let's not hate Koreans? Who the heck would be so dumb as to hate an entire group of people because of some guy who really wasn't even associated with them anymore (not since 1992?) If anyone would've been hated, to me, it would have been the family or people who up to that moment could have stopped him. The family if they had abused him somehow or some other person maybe. And the person responsible for reporting this guy to the proper authorities as I stated above.
Then we heard from the family and it's like well okay we're sorry for them because they had no idea that their son was crazy.
(Yes, I believe that the only thing that saves this guy in my book was that he must have been crazy. And to me crazy, true crazy does kinda excuse any crimes committed under that skewed mental system. It doesn't make this tragedy any easier to bear though).
And the president of the US has to make a I feel sorry for you guys speech. I'm sorry, but he's more worried about Iraq right now. Real empathy comes from us not him. Anyway...
And then we get this whole legislative ball rolling again because of something like this and it's a damned hard line for the legislators to walk. On the one hand it is absolutely true in my mind that no one who is or has ever suffered from a mental illness should be allowed to own a gun, BUT I think it's okay for someone who is not mentally ill to have a gun for their own safety especially if they live in a high crime area. As someone once put it, the police are going to be here in 5 min. and the criminal is going to kill my ass now, uh yeah I think I'll have the gun in my hand. So you see, this ball that we have rolling again is a waste of time because there are bigger issues and so many people have so many ideas about it.
Issues that have a more definable answer, such as global warming, should be getting addressed IMO.
And I'm so terribly sorry this happened. I don't want to sound like I think the people shot should have done more, but it sucks that if 5 had rushed him 27 might have lived. What if is the worst question.
This reply is solely my opinions and thoughts about this event. I am not talking in certainties here and I mean no disrespect to anyone if a Minnesotan fails to comprehend something. I would be glad to be enlightened.
It just saddens me that this happend and then it angers me that after the fact we have to play this fucking politics bullshit and try to find a scapegoat because the guy who did the crime killed himself. Damn the media. They do all right with the weather (sometimes), sports, and a few other things, but when something like this happens, they get all up in arms and make a loud announcement about it. The best thing would be to quietly figure out what happened, why did it happen, can we keep it from happening again? If so, fix it and move on. If common sense would just be used and not political haggling.
Okay I think I'm done.
