Well, well, well....the truth about Shaq.

[ticklingfeet4fu]

Not Again!!!

Here we go again!!! Primetime stirring up the pot one more time... What are ya cooking now Prime???

 

[jaba]

a Shaq update.....

Hey Prime,

did you read Sunday's sports section of the "Los Angeles Times"? 😎

Pat Riley, coach of the Miami Heat, is quoted as saying," He (Shaq) knows his influence on his teammates. He's going to have to lead by real example. If he wants to give back 10 million and play half a season, then fine."

hmmmmmmm....what former Laker player who averaged half a season per year while with the lakers got traded to the Miami Heat? That scenario sure sounds familiar......

 

[tickletoy3]

Primetime, my good buddy your last post was truly comical. After picking myself up off the floor I am trying to compose my response. Ok let's take it one step at a time..

For beginners, I am tired of the Shaq/Kobe, Kobe/Shaq debate. What Shaq did - or did not - do at LA means nothing now. That chapter is dead, buried and has weeds growing out of the casket. Shaq was not and has never been the sole reason any team ever won a title. It takes teamwork to win titles.

I made the last remark about Kobe 'not working' with Shaq because the last time they were together they got their asses handed to them by the Detroit Pistons. Yet Shaq goes to Miami and helps win another title. If you watched the show about him on Bio, when asked about the 'kobe scenario' without ever using Kobe's name or mentioning anyone by name, Shaq stated "All I know is when we did it my way we won 3 NBA titles. Then I'm told we're going to do it 'his' way and we lost to Detroit. You figure it out." Then he rambled on about 'leaving a sinking ship'. Well I think that pretty much sums it up. Bottom line is when last together they got their teeth kicked in. That's hardly 'working together'. Yet Wade, Shaq and Miami are behind 0-2 in the Finals and 'work together' and amazingly they win. Yep. You figure it out.

Anyway, that's old hat, done deal, old news.. time to move on..

Ok my friend, contrary to most american belief international teams (greece, china, australia, etc.) are not just one team that plays together all year round and decided to show up at international play. Believe it or not, they do have leagues in greece, china, spain and australia that play regular schedules just like the NBA and do compete. So that rules out the silly idea that they are one team that plays together all the time.

Australia has the nbl (national basketball league) with various teams like the Wallagong Hawks, the Adelaide 36ers, Brisbane Bullets, South Dragons and the Sydney Kings. Italy has teams like Air Avellino, Angelica Biella, Armani Milano, Lottomatica Roma, Eldo Napoli and Benetton Treviso just to name a few. Spain has teams Caja San Fernando and Granada and many others.. but you get the idea. Ok, these teams choose their best players and put them in the international games. Yes, much like the US.

International rules were established to give each team a 'level playing field' or no home court advantage. International rules do not favor any country because each team involved has to adapt to the new rules. Would it really be fair to play the aussies by nbl rules? no. Or spain or china by their rules? of course not. Hence international rules. So again, there goes your silly idea of forming a 'handicap' for other teams. In fact, it's the exact opposite because it forms equality for all teams.

More so, when given a rule comparison my opinion is it actually favors the US. Firstly, the game is shorter (40 mins compared to 48). Starters are likely not as tired. The length of the court is shorter. Again, less running so players maintain higher stamina during the entire game. The lanes are wider and the 3 point distance is shorter (wouldn't this make it easier to hit 3s?) and players allowed one less foul (5 instead of the NBA 6).

You can say "well the nba does it this way and they do it that way so it's against the US". Silly idea seeing as every other country involved has to the make the change too.

But Prime you really cracked me up with your own comment "they didn't have their best players because they didn't have Kobe Bryant".. oh man that was hysterical.

You mean to tell me a team with Carmelo Anthony, Dwayne Wade and Lebron James actually needs Kobe Bryant to beat GREECE??? Who in the blue hell is GREECE??? Oh man you still have me laughing at that one.. here's a quote which proves just how silly you sound..

"I don't care what great NBA star might be missing from Team USA, how can a team with LeBron James, Dwayne Wade and Carmelo Anthony lose to a Greece team that doesn't have a single NBA player. At least Germany had Dirk Nowitski, for crying out loud."

"James, Wade and Anthony should have been able to waltz to the World Basketball Championships title, as if they were playing alongside Tatoo and Mini-Me."

And please spare us that silly crap about 'international rules'. I've already covered that base.

So we've established what? (1) Every team was equal in the international games (2)Every team had to adapt to the different rules of international play (3) US got their asses handed to them by a far inferior team like Greece..

ok now to your other silliness.. I whole heartedly agree 100% that the US DOMINATED the Olympic games for YEARS and YEARS. No doubt about it. They absolutely ruled international basketball during the Olympics. My question is this.. back in those days the US played with NCAA players while the rest of the world was playing with their version of pro players. The US DOMINATED with college level players. That won't be disputed.

Ok now tell me this and enlighten me. How come, when they can now send their superior pro level players to the games do they LOSE every friggin' time?? When was the last time they won?? Jordan?? Geez. And he's been gone how long now?? You're telling me they can open a can of whup ass with NCAA boys and lose every friggin' time with pros?? Something is wrong with that picture. Yes, please enlighten. And don't bother with 'we're playing by their rules, meeting their terms' crap. The US did it for YEARS with NCAA boys and won. And besides, ive already covered the false handicap theory. What's the problem??

And prime, my good friend, please get real with your soccer comments. You really are making yourself look silly. All teams play organized soccer everywhere in the world by the same rules. Period. What each team sees in the world cup is what they see all year and have seen as long as they've played soccer. That's why whoever wins the world cup in soccer can truly say they are 'world champions'. It's the biggest event in the world on the world's biggest stage.

 

[primetime]

i'm glad you are getting a good laugh because now you know how i feel whenever i read your responses. Man, if only you could see what you write, you would look in the mirror and wonder why you even come up with the stuff you do. Sit back and learn a lesson...

Your quote "Shaq was not and has never been the sole reason any team ever won a title. It takes teamwork to win titles." proves MY POINT. You finally get it...What in the world do you think i have been trying to point out to Shaq lovers/Kobe haters? This whole time i have been saying exactly that. Thank you for finally admitting that i am right. Hell, your Shaq quote of "All I know is when we did it my way we won 3 NBA titles. Then I'm told we're going to do it 'his' way and we lost to Detroit. You figure it out." PROVES my point about him being the selfish one. When things are done MY (Shaq's) way? And people say Kobe is the selfish one...give me a break. Quit while you are behind.

As for the "working" with thing. Do you know how silly you really sound. The reason why the Heat won last year was NOT because of Shaq working with Wade, it was a combination of Wade carrying the team, but also the Mavericks choking (as evident this year as well...). Shaq was a NON FACTOR last year. How did he "work" with Wade and win the title? Can you explain that please?

As for the Lakers losing to the Pistons, again you fail to realize what happened. For the first time, a Laker opponent decided to not waste time in double covering Shaq because he WAS NOT the "fear factor". The fear factor was Kobe Bryant. The questions tripled team Kobe Bryant. Tayshaun Prince guarded him, then if Kobe got past him, Chauncey Billups was waiting, if he made it past him, Rasheed Wallace or another Piston awaited. They forced Kobe to pass the ball and the other Lakers could not finish shots. Not one Piston, nor their coach Larry Brown even remotely cared about double teaming Shaq. Shaq was NOT going to hurt them, Kobe was. In fact, it was Kobe who managed to keep the Lakers from getting swept. Since you like stats so much, go back, watch EVERY game the Lakers played in the playoffs that year and you tell me if the defensive game plan the Pistons employed was the same as the other Laker playoff opponents. You should notice a BIG difference. Go ahead, prove me wrong. I know you cant. Man, give it up already. You know as well as i do that i am right.

As for international play. Let me get this straight. You are telling me that the other international teams get together for the FIRST time that year and play the Olympics/World games? Or are they usually the same damn international team year in year for the Olympics/World Games? They may play on separate teams during their regular seasons. but their "all stars" are usually the same guys. Those are NOT new teams everytime international play is called for, or am i wrong. Please tell me. Team USA usually fields a DIFFERENT all-star team. Oh yeah, the last time Team USA won the gold medal, Jordan DID NOT PLAY. get it right. The 1996 team won the gold medal.

Also, Team USA will now consist of the same guys. That way, they can jell together LIKE the other international teams. Believe me, Team USA will be back and we will win. USA is taking this seriously now.

About international rules. Give me a break, everyone knows that other countries play the same style of basketball that is either the same or very similar to the Olympics. No one else on this planet outside of the USA plays NBA style ball. They cant. They are not "tough" enough. Again, play with NBA rules and you will see a domination like nothing before. You know what they call the NBA by the NBA players? No Boys Allowed. Foreign players have no clue on how to play physical basketball. I am trying to imagine if we sent Snack Oneal to the Olympics. Talk about a bowling ball crashing through the pins.

You know why NCAA players are no longer used? Because other countries were using their PRO players, not their COLLEGE players, so why shouldnt we use our pros? Granted, the rest of the world got better at basketball and our college kids couldnt pass the muster. Although, personally, i think if we send our NCAA champions, rather than an all-college team, we could STILL win the gold medal.

Now when you said how come Team USA always lose in these international games, exactly how many losses are we talking about? You act like we flop early. It is still good to know that the rest of the world still FEARS the USA because they win a FEW times and now all of the sudden, they feel the Americans are done. But, just like the rest of the world should recognize, we will return to form and crush your little teams. Let's see what happens this year at the World games...

I have already said you can have soccer. please take it. Americans will never care. Even if the USA won the World Cup, the country still wouldnt care. But it would be fun to piss off the rest of the world. So, i hope the rest of the world enjoys their "futbol". Have a blast. We really dont care.

Man, you always entertain me. I will admit you know the international game better than me, but you damn sure dont know more about the style of NBA basketball. That is painfully obvious when you try to talk about NBA basketball strategies. Did you watch those Piston/Lakers 2004 Finals games yet? Learn a lesson and get back to me. You already (although you probably didnt realize it) admitted that i am correct in my assessment about Snack Oneal.

Jaba, yeah, i saw that article in the LA Times today. Funny, Pat Riley is echoing EXACTLY what Laker fans have been trying to say to all the anti-Laker fans. But, some people wont pay attention and STILL blame Kobe Bryant for Shaq leaving. Shaq really has these people fooled......

 

[tickletoy3]

It's always fun to 'throw down' with my bud at TMF. I missed ya Prime. This place was getting boring so I'm really glad you started a thread to get something going again..

One question on Shaq. During those three-peat years.. who was MVP during the Finals? All three 'friggin years?? Who was league MVP in the 1999-2000 season? And if the Lakers won 3 NBA titles consecutively, no matter 'who's' way it was.. be it Kobe, Phil or anybody on the team.. why would anyone want to change it? Shaq, Kobe, Phil.. anybody?? It obviously worked, right?

As far as Shaq being "selfish" he was simply stating fact. If Kobe says "I scored over 80 points.", some may view it "selfish" and all about him. Others may see it as he had a heck of a game. But thing is, no matter if you like it, or don't like it.. it's fact. It happened. Same as what Shaq was saying. It's fact and it happened. They did it 'his' way and they won 3 titles.

(off topic) How did you like the way Edge won the title from Taker? Good stuff. Edge draws awesome heat and I like him way better as a heel. But for some reason I like Mr Kennedy too. I think he reminds me of 'old school'. I was really thinking they were going to milk it even further and have Kennedy cause Edge to lose to Taker to set up a rematch for the "MIB" case.

I think Batista will have another title in there somewhere along the way and Taker will pull out the "You never beat me" line. I think it will at some point at a PPV I'm sure, end up in a 4 way for the belt.

 

[primetime]

oh man, believe me, i always enjoy debating with you. keeps us interested in stuff...

as for Shaq. i will answer your question. Shaq won the NBA Finals MVP. you know why? because it would be silly to do anything different. there was no one in the East that matched up with Shaq and he destroyed them. They threw triple teams at him and it didnt matter. It was like an elephant running wild in a china shop. Funny thing is, WHO got them to the Finals? That's right, Kobe.....

In the 2004 Finals, the Lakers didnt change anything. Shaq was still the #1 option. However, unlike all the other opponents in the Finals, Detroit left Shaq alone and went after everyone else, ESPECIALLY Kobe Bryant. If Shaq was this elephant in the previous Finals, why would Detroit concentrate on Kobe. Kobe's influence is a lot greater than you give credit for. If Shaq is constantly getting doubled and tripled, he kicks it to Kobe who carves up opponents. Ask the Spurs. They would send Duncan and Robinson at Shaq and Kobe wiped them out. Detroit was the first team to employ a different defensive strategy and it worked. The Lakers lose in the Finals.

You know, despite the fact that Shaq stabbed LA in the back, is fat and lazy, he's a selfish son of a bitch, i still kind of miss him. he is a funny guy. I was watching tapes of the early championship years and it sure was fun. what really gets me is that i have a LA Times photo of the Lakers 2000 Championship. It is a picture of Shaq and Kobe embracing moments after winning the title. Man, the good ol' days......

(off topic)..

It sucks that the Undertaker finally will get a long title reign, but due to an arm injury he had to give the title up. But i like Edge as a heel as well. he has come a long way. he reminds me of Triple H when he started to get big. time will only tell.....

 

[scissorman]

While I do think that Shaq is one of the most dominating players of all time, I see no way of arguing with a certain point of view. Shaq and Kobe, Shaq and Wade. It seems that Shaq NEEDS to have that star player with him, to win titles. Of course, Basketball is a team sport, so I don't think thats really a relevant argument.

 

[P[a]pi]

Everybody needs help.

Jordan - Pippen = less than 6 haha

I like Kobe and Shaq and I think Wade is alright. I rooted for Shaq and Kobe when they were together. And I rooted for the Heat to beat Dallas as well. When it comes to the NBA I like individual players. I don't really have one favorite team. I just have one favorite player, which is Kobe.

But, honestly I was rooting for the Heat, so Payton could get one haha. The Glove son!