What wrestler do you think isnt as good as they used to be?

[Krazy]

I would say Scott Steiner he was tight as hell in WCW... 🙁

 

[TicklingDuo]

Hmmmm.....where to start?!

Steiner
McMahon
Austin
HBK
Hulkster
Regal

just to name a few.

 

[Krazy]

ah./...

 

[Shem the Penman]

I agree with Ann's list, with a couple of caveats -- Hogan never -had- much skill to lose (his talent's always lain in his charisma), and HBK is much better than I'd thought he would be when he came back.

I'd add Triple H, who has improved a bit this year but is still nowhere near his early 2000 peak.

 

[Krazy]

well ur true but to get off topic for a sec. you guys see what there doing right? there puting Hogan on Raw and Austin on Smackdown it's obvious...

 

[BigJim]

Hogan is seriously lame these days. When he goes for his legdrop, he hardly gets both feet off the canvas! He should have stayed retired after he put Lesnar over that time. That would have been the best way of dealing with what's left of his career.

I have to wonder why Shawn Michaels came back though. His spine injury was so bad it took metal implants to fix and even then he was told never to wrestle again unless he wanted to risk paralysis. I think he must have thrown all his money from his career into the Texas Wrestling Alliance and lost it all, or something. No matter how much he loves the game, risking his health for it ain't worthy!

Austin is as solid as he ever was really. His image was created on that night about 6 years ago at Wrestlemania 13 when he was in Bret Hart's Sharpshooter for about 6 or 7 minutes and refused to submit. (Strange when he then tapped out of Kurt Angle's Angle-Lock in about 5 seconds a few years later then.) For someone who bases his image on roughneck fighting, he's very technically sound. Obviously 'Killer' Kowalski did a good job there.

HHH's armoury seems to be quite limited these days and he hasn't delivered a decent Pedigree since his days with D-X. The last few years his finishers have grown steadilly less polished.

Kane is a massive example of someone who entered with a bang and then drifted off into limbo. Jacobs hasn't been pushed for a decent storyline for about 2 years now. A far cry from the days when he was the indestructible machine who kicked out of two Tombstones in 5 minutes and was only half a second late kicking out of a third. The character just hasn't lived up to what it started as sadly.

 

[Hitman]

I would say Kane, I still like him but i remember back in the day when he first came he did not talk at all and now he is a regular old chatter box.

 

[Moses25]

I'd have to say Andre the Giant, cause he's dead.



Cheers.😀

 

[BigJim]

I'd have to say Andre the Giant, cause he's dead.



Cheers.😀

Wanker!

Fair enough, add Yokozuna, Giant Gonzales, Brian Pillman, Owen Hart and The British Bulldog to the list.

 

[Moses25]

I'm aboot to you add you to the list, Stinkypants.😛

We might have to start adding a middle word to "Big...Jim".

Chazwazzer.

Cheers.😀

 

[BigJim]

I'm aboot to you add you to the list, Stinkypants.😛

We might have to start adding a middle word to "Big...Jim".

Chazwazzer.

Cheers.😀

Nah, the half dozen times I wrestled I was 'Jay "The Southpaw" Stevens'. 😛

 

[TicklingDuo]

Nah, the half dozen times I wrestled I was 'Jay "The Southpaw" Stevens'. 😛

You mean you weren't the other Hulkster? 😛

Ann

 

[Krazy]

well do u thnk there gonna trade?

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

Kane is a massive example of someone who entered with a bang and then drifted off into limbo. Jacobs hasn't been pushed for a decent storyline for about 2 years now. A far cry from the days when he was the indestructible machine who kicked out of two Tombstones in 5 minutes and was only half a second late kicking out of a third. The character just hasn't lived up to what it started as sadly.

While I agree with that accessment, and can compare the Kane of the past to the Kane of the present through watching that match over and over again (I have it on dvd), I will defend him by saying he had a lot of frustration and momentum going in to that match. And it was also his first match. And first impressions mean alot. Even though the Undertaker barely won that match, and Kane just couldn't be put down, I think its a bit unreasonable to expect the same invincibility from him, even if he hasn't been in the business that long.

To be honest, part of its an act. At the time, he needed to appear to be stronger, faster, and more sturdy then the Undertaker because it was an important time as far as the plot goes. Don't get me wrong however, I'm a big Kane fan. And I do believe the match wasn't set up and that he really did ligitmately kick out of 2 tombstones and almost a third. In fact, its that part of the match thats almost unbelievable and that I keep rewinding to see. I think another reason that particular match had such an impact is because up until then the Undertaker never had an equal. To have this equal or greater wrestler come along, and finally give him that run for his money, and nearly take him out makes for quite a spectical.

" I haven't see one, two, I haven't seen a group of people manhandle the Undertaker like this!"- JR

Todays Kane isn't getting a break, your right. I think that if he were to be as agressive as he was with the Undertaker that night, and he didn't pull his punches, that it might actually get rid of any competition he would have. In order for him to seem beatable, and in order for him to have rivalries, he has to pull his punches. Believe me, it makes me sick, because Kane is a very impressive man in the ring, and his raw, natural power has been broken and passified by the business that he can't use his full force. Lets be real guys, if Kane, the Undertaker, and Big Show were really allowed to be as physically powerful as they are, they would be causing significant injuries to the other wrestlers they wrestle. Its almost as if they're power and strength is a liability in this business. This can also be applied to Tajiri, Funaki, and any of the martial artists. If they were allowed to use more of they're martial arts moves in the ring, size wouldn't matter and they could level even the Big Show flat on his back in seconds. Its because of the danger involved that these and other wrestlers are forced to hold back.

So I guess my main defense for Kane, and now these others, is that its not that they're performance has weakened, its that they aren't allowed to go as far as the "WWF" let them. The "WWE" is more soft now, and has more to do with selling a story then pure, professional wrestling. Kane didn't change, the business did.


- Damien

 

[TicklingDuo]

The Big Show was always kinda useless, but now more than ever he's just a total lumbering waste of time and space.
The WWE needs to end Kevin Nash's contract, again, totally useless and constantly getting injured.
I have to disagree about Shawn Micheals comeback(sorry, Big Jim)
He's amazed me what he's been able to do these last few months. This past Sunday at Wrestlemania 19, Chris Jericho did a kick-up(from lying down flat)but had to use both hands, Shawn Micheals did TWO kick-ups with just his legs, and they were done perfectly.

Now when does the Goldberg thread start?

Drew.

 

[BigJim]

While I agree with that accessment, and can compare the Kane of the past to the Kane of the present through watching that match over and over again (I have it on dvd), I will defend him by saying he had a lot of frustration and momentum going in to that match. And it was also his first match. And first impressions mean alot. Even though the Undertaker barely won that match, and Kane just couldn't be put down, I think its a bit unreasonable to expect the same invincibility from him, even if he hasn't been in the business that long.

To be honest, part of its an act. At the time, he needed to appear to be stronger, faster, and more sturdy then the Undertaker because it was an important time as far as the plot goes. Don't get me wrong however, I'm a big Kane fan. And I do believe the match wasn't set up and that he really did ligitmately kick out of 2 tombstones and almost a third.

Ummmm, Damien...........you do know that pro-wrestling is scripted and set up; right dude? Take it from someone who's done it, the only times when a match doesn't end the way it was set up in the dressing room is when something goes wrong. (Like at the Summerslam triple threat match one year, when Angle, Triple H and The Rock faced each other. HHH went to do a pedigree on a table with Angle and the darn table collapsed like matchwood. Angle was knocked out on the concrete and only remembers about half ofwhat happened afterwards.) The owner of the promoting company decides who he wants to win and sometimes how he wants them to win, then the two guys work all the individual moves and sets out themselves.

Yeah, it was unrealistic to expect Kane to maintain that momentum for a protracted period of time. But whenever someone comes into the WWF (I WILL NEVER CALL IT THE WWE, BLOODY BASTARD PANDA LOVERS!!!!!) they always build him up during his initial run. They did a similar thing with Brock Lesnar when he first came into the business. The bloke was invincible and destructive in the extreme, but he's now actually taking shots from other guys. He would'nt have the same aura if guys like The Rock and Hulk Hogan hadn't 'put him over' so sucessfully though. It's largely thanks to those two that Lesnar is as sucessful as he is.

 

[BigJim]

I have to disagree about Shawn Micheals comeback(sorry, Big Jim)
He's amazed me what he's been able to do these last few months. This past Sunday at Wrestlemania 19, Chris Jericho did a kick-up(from lying down flat)but had to use both hands, Shawn Micheals did TWO kick-ups with just his legs, and they were done perfectly.

Now when does the Goldberg thread start?

Drew.

Agreed on Paul Wight and Nash. Nash was good for a while about 10 years ago when he was Diesel. Of course it was largely thanks to his partnership with Shawn Michaels at the time, that he got over so well.

As for the nip-up, well that's spectacular enough; but not unusual. Jericho using his hands wasn't about adding momentum to it, it was more about balancing his body as he came up. Even a guy as out of shape as me can nip-up with the right circumstances.

 

[BigJim]

You mean you weren't the other Hulkster? 😛

Ann

I'm afraid not. I wanted to be, but they thought that Hulk would lose some of his status if I used the same name as him, so I had to give the guy a break. 😀😀😀

 

[BigJim]

Lets be real guys, if Kane, the Undertaker, and Big Show were really allowed to be as physically powerful as they are, they would be causing significant injuries to the other wrestlers they wrestle. Its almost as if they're power and strength is a liability in this business. This can also be applied to Tajiri, Funaki, and any of the martial artists. If they were allowed to use more of they're martial arts moves in the ring, size wouldn't matter and they could level even the Big Show flat on his back in seconds.

EVEN the Big Show? that guy would be easier to level than just about any of the others. For guys like Calloway, Jacobs and Wight their strength is often greatly magnified by the ability of the person they're fighting. Whether a wrestler looks good in the ring is 100% down to his opponent.

 

[Oddjob0226]

It bugs me endlessly that the Goregous Ladies of Wrestling have either...

.....dissapeared...

....gone into more "serious" wrestling...

..or do the fetish-y orineted stuff.....



I think it's kind of sad how the entire Von Erich family self destructed over time...

 

[Oddjob0226]

Wanker!

Fair enough, add Yokozuna, Giant Gonzales, Brian Pillman, Owen Hart and The British Bulldog to the list.

And Bruiser Brody and Gino Hernandez and that guy who wrestled Mohammed Ali (Gorilla Muldoon?)..... I guess Tosh Togo is going back too far...?

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

Ummmm, Damien...........you do know that pro-wrestling is scripted and set up; right dude?

Of course I do. Its just a shame they can't at least make it look more realistic. Everyone's aware of whats going on, and its so predictable that I often wonder why I even watch it. It looked more realistic when it was the "WWF". Now that its World Wrestling ENTERTAINMENT, its almost like a sell out, or it is. If its going to be fake, they ought to be doing a damn good job of making it at least look like its not. I don't mean to seem like a sadist, but they need to be more dangerous, agressive, and harmful while wrestling so as to increase believability. Aside from the occasional freak accident or unscripted result, it doesn't feel like it used to. At least for me. But I'm not attributing that to the weakening of wrestler performance, I'm attributing it to the business and how it conducts itself in this way.

Obviously if it were real, all of them would be injuried and wouldn't be able to wrestle consistantly every week or after pay-per-views. I understand the need to make it fake, but I'm sure I'm just one of countless millions that would like it if it wasn't so scripted. For heavens sakes, a viewer can point out every single thing they do to fake it. From the stomping on the canvas, to the camera angles, to the long wait at the turnbuckles, to the JUST FREAKING STANDING THERE AND LETTING THE GUY GET THE JUMP ON YOU! It shouldn't be that obvious. But I guess theres nothing that can be done about it.

Its at times like these I wish Mick Foley, and particularly Cactus Jack was here. While they might have gotten to him too sometimes, at least it looked real enough and satisfied the viewers. What more could you have asked from Mick Foley as far as being hardcore and dangerous were concerned? Even if elements of his act where set up, at least he was willing to do them. I wish some of the wrestlers were more like him. And, he had a legitimate excuse to fall under this thread title of " what wrestler do you think isn't as good as they used to be?"


- Damien

 

[Oddjob0226]

Did anyone see that wresling documentary film? I can't remember the title - called something about "The Ring" - and it ain't about a girl stuck in a well with Hobbits! - I don't remeber the exact name. It was pretty amazing.

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

I know what your talking about, and I saw parts of it. And I think I get what your trying to say by mentioning that. Are you mentioning it to comment on what I said about there not being enough realism? Because in that documentary, its all about the personal hell some wrestlers go through in secret, that their fans never know of and Vince McMahon doesn't want them to know about either. I realize the business can be brutal, and the wrestlers do substain injuries over time, injuries they have to live with every day. But as far as in public, and in the ring, the performances, to me at least, aren't convincing enough to backup those injuries they have. It doesn't seem like they "earned" them, you know? While they get those injuries from simply acting, I dare to call it that, its over time they received them in most cases, and not because the matches, or the physical aspect of it is brutal enough to cause them so soon.

One of the most pathetic things about the faking is when theres a low blow. Someone rolls on the floor, pretending to be in immense pain, and their not. Something also stupid is the distracting of the referee. Hes not coincidentally looking the wrong way or being distracted when things that shouldn't be going on are going on.

Now that I think about it, in retrospect, as I've thought about it before, why do I even care? Maybe it is just entertainment. Is that why they changed the name?

And in the bigger picture, theres threads here about whose gonna win this, whose gonna win that, whose going where, and when. Does it matter? Its not the wrestlers' choice, and thats probably the most pathetic thing of all. Who cares if someone wins? They didn't earn that victory and they weren't defeated, it was given to them or not given to them before the match even happened, and probably months in advance.


- Damien

 

[Oddjob0226]

I know what your talking about, and I saw parts of it. And I think I get what your trying to say by mentioning that. Are you mentioning it to comment on what I said about there not being enough realism? Because in that documentary, its all about the personal hell some wrestlers go through in secret, that their fans never know of and Vince McMahon doesn't want them to know about either.

I just thought it was cool.