Where has the compassion gone?

[Capnmad]

A thread recently was renewed about the 15 year-old cousin of a member here who was taken in by some people on the internet and gave them her address. She was apparently, subsequently raped by two sexual-predator assailants as a result.

Among the bulk of overwhelmingly positive posts offering consolation and thought, there have been a slim few who say that they just cannot feel sorry for the victim of this crime. Now, you know, I'm a person who appreciates (not likes, mind you, but appreciates -- there's a difference) everyone's opinion -- and I leave the door open even for them to clarify, as maybe they have misspoken (and regardless, they're welcome to discuss their feelings here), but as I interpret their remarks, I find them appalling. So as not to hijack that thread with my thoughts, I present them here.

I understand the premise of "social darwinism" or whatever other label people are offering up to excuse their lack of compassion in this case. Nevertheless, I think there is a failure in the basic humanity of some people who express themselves thus. Regarding the case described in the thread:

First, she is a child. She's fifteen. She is not an adult under the law, and is probably far from exercising what I would consider adult-level reasoning.

Second, to suggest that she brought "rape" on herself is flat-out ignorant. To her knowledge and reasoning, however naïve she was to the dangers that loom, she was inviting over a friend.

Third, even if a person's actions bring about a negative result, it doesn't preclude a person from feeling sorry for them. Compassion and recognition of an error in judgement are not mutually exclusive.


I think some of us get stuck in a rigid trap of assumed "individual responsibility" that hardens us unreasonably to the plights of others. It stems from the assumption that repercussions are proportional to the perceived foolishness of the action, and that perceived foolishness is based mostly on the degree to which it could be conceived that the consequences were probable:

Stick your finger in an electric socket, and you might get shocked.

Play games at the dinner table, and you might wind up wearing your drink.

Fail to wear a hard hat on a construction site, you might wind up going to the hospital.


Now, these are relatively short-term repercussions that I've described, but this isn't to say that one should never be able to look at a situation and say, "Well that was just totally stupid and their fault" even if it has an extraordinarily tragic result. Indeed, the "Darwin Awards" has that as its very basis. To jump out of an airplane going skydiving and then realizing that you forgot to wear a parachute, while it will doubtless have a tragic result, is just plain stupid. But the result is proportional to the magnitude of foolishness -- a skydiver knows they're engaging in life-risking activity, they recognize that risk, anticipate it, and there are many safeguards to protect them, chief and most obvious being the existence of a parachute.


But here's the thing: The repercussion of gang rape is a ridiculously harsh punishment, unexpected for a person of her age and at her level of reasoning, and an unreasonably disproportionate consequence for mistakenly inviting over someone you thought you could trust. You could say she's foolish or naïve -- but she's a child -- that's pretty much an understood.

She made an error in judgement, I grant you, but for someone to say, "she brought it (gang rape) on herself", or that they "can't feel sorry" for the victim strikes me as being inhumanly cold and out of touch for any warm-blooded mammal.

Hell, even practitioners of Hudud (that lovely branch of Arab law that advocates the removal of a hand for theft -- *only four fingers of the right hand, if it's your first offense!*) will only apply that punishment if the offender is an adult. Where is the compassion with some of you people?

If anyone would like to clarify or if I have misinterpreted, or if you'd simply like to spar on this idea, I'm right here.

 

[Cave In]

First, she is a child. She's fifteen. She is not an adult under the law, and is probably far from exercising what I would consider adult-level reasoning.

This is the only problem I have with your post, to say in this day and age that a 15 year old is far from considering adult level reasoning, is a naive statement to make. As a fairly young member of the forum I know all about girls at this age and they are able to make adult level reasoning. these days kids are growing up much faster than back in the good ol'days. Facts are in this day and age, kids have underage sex with each other, they drink alcohol, and most importantly they know what they're doing. Its the fault of todays society this type of thing is all over tv movies and magazines these days, so its not like they dont know what its all about.

In no way am i saying she deserved what happened to her, far from it, it was a barbaric act and i hope these people rot in jail for life, because of there actions.

The sad thing is its not an isolated incident these things do happen and I put the blame on parents and schools, the parents for one should have been keeping a closer eye on there childs acitivities on the internet, and schools really should be promoting safe usage of the interent far more than it does.

 

[Bugman]

She made an error in judgement, I grant you, but for someone to say, "she brought it (gang rape) on herself", or that they "can't feel sorry" for the victim strikes me as being inhumanly cold and out of touch for any warm-blooded mammal.

I saw the thread you refer to,and i blame the parents not that poor child for what happened to her.They should have been keeping an eye on what she was doing.I have a niece who will be 16 this year and she has never been allowed to use a computer without being monitered,let alone have one in her room.

To say she brought it on herself,if a woman is walking around letting it all hang out so to speak is this asking for it?I think not.

 

[lk70]

I don't think it matters how old she was. She could have been 30 and an internet crime specialist for the FBI and I'd still feel compassion for her.

Too many high and mighty types in the world.

 

[SamuelKhan]

I hope to meet people in person one day from this site someday, but I am going to it carefully. A public meeting place with friends is a good place to meet people from the internet. From what I have learned, this is the best way.

Really unsavory people with bad intentions are everywhere, in r/l and online. At 15, she is still the legal responsibility of her parents. I go with bugman and direct the blame on her mom and dad.

The pieces of rat manure who violated her should be punished to the fullest extent of the law. No questions asked.

 

[Helena]

I don't think it matters how old she was. She could have been 30 and an internet crime specialist for the FBI and I'd still feel compassion for her.

Too many high and mighty types in the world.

I don't think it matters how old a woman is when she is raped...it is always traumatic.
Adults can be victims of predators on the internet as well as teens.
Whenever a person is a crime victim, I always wish I could do something to help him/her.

 

[Flatfoot]

People are quick to blame parents, but teenagers are devious little creatures. I don't care if a child's parents are like Jack from Meet the Parents, kids will find ways to be sneaky to get what they want. If parents treat their kids like airport security, the kids will just get smarter and think of better ways to bypass them. To blame the parents is going right along with what Capnmad's saying how people are writing off such incidents as individual responsibility and "social darwinism". In the end, it's all finger-pointing, which does nothing, no matter where the fingers point. Finger-pointing just gives people a common enemy to rally against. Regarding the situation, EVERYONE INVOLVED shares SOME of the responsibility.

As far as the lack of compassion on this message board, I think more often, people will succumb to discussing the problem and/or addressing the solution than offering condolences, especially when the person involved is a third-person, outside element, kinda like when people post news articles discussing unfortunate incidents happening to people (also the case in the thread that Capnmad references.). Why offer condolences to someone who isn't present to see them? It seems to me that many people aren't likely to post something unless it's going to draw attention and spark something, good or bad. Either way, many seek to ignite, and there's only so many ways people can post "Wow... that sucks... I feel bad for them," before a poster is posting something that's been said 50+ times over and is usually scrolled over.

 

[Capnmad]

To blame the parents is going right along with what Capnmad's saying how people are writing off such incidents as individual responsibility and "social darwinism".

Excellent observation, Flatfoot.

Why offer condolences to someone who isn't present to see them? It seems to me that many people aren't likely to post something unless it's going to draw attention and spark something, good or bad. Either way, many seek to ignite, and there's only so many ways people can post "Wow... that sucks... I feel bad for them," before a poster is posting something that's been said 50+ times over and is usually scrolled over.

Another good point. That said, I'd certainly hope that what is said, even (and especially) if controversial, is genuine. Those who post controversial sentiments, if they are true to them, should be not only ready but happy to defend them. I hope they take part.


Cave-In, I'll respond to you at length soon. Thank you for contributing.

 

[CitY of MicA]

some ideas (in the shape of a bird's nest)

I hadn't seen that thread, but I will look for it (and perhaps comment further). When I've seen you post on the board, recently, Capn, I've found you to be a reasonable and thoughtful voice; your having refered to something as appalling, therefore, piques my interest. Ever since I first came 'aboard' this board, or checked out comments made in blogs or on Youtube for example, I've always had to remind myself that I don't know who is on the other end of those comments. In the examples I gave outside of the TMF, it obviously could be a minor making offensive comments. Here we take for granted that no one on this board is less than 18; but they can be 18. I'm often struck by comments in threads in which someone in the news has done something wrong- for the sake of discussion, let's say something heinous- and people jump in to propose that a limb from their body be cut off and fed to them (or some other supposedly just punishment). And subsequent comments often add fuel to said fire, but rarely (if ever) address board member's ideas of what's good enough for the person who committed the crime. It makes me wonder.

I can understand people not feeling compassion for murders that show up in the 'news.' To me, that's just a normal reaction to the state of today's media. I personally don't care about Jean Benet Ramsey; it's nothing against children (I love kids) or a lack of compassion on my part- the story, and most like them, are not newsworthy to me and I just don't care to hear or read about them. However, if it's a relative of a board member that we are discussing, I would have a different reaction.

Even if, in the scenario you describe, the rape victim was 45, I don't see where she 'deserved it.' Rape is horrific; I wouldn't wish it upon anyone. And I might lose an aspect of my humanity if I did (which goes to my previous point- but don't think there's anything tieing all this together 😉 ). Perhaps some people react negatively in situations like these because of the awful nature of the crime; i.e. it is natural to try to find some kind of fault with the victim's actions so as to rationalize how something so inconceivable could happen. Or perhaps they're just compassionless .

I apologize if I went to far off topic with those thoughts.

 

[Bugman]

People are quick to blame parents, but teenagers are devious little creatures. I don't care if a child's parents are like Jack from Meet the Parents, kids will find ways to be sneaky to get what they want. If parents treat their kids like

True up to a point flatfoot,but i grew up in a world where the internet,home computers and cable tv did not exist.A long distance phone call often meant bad news.The potencial for harm is so much greater these days it can't be ignored.When i was a kid i left the house early in the morning and didn't come home until dark and my parents never worried about me.That still happens i'm sure in some places and kids can't be protected from eveything and they should not be.But to allow any child unrestriced acces to a computer is just wrong in my opinion.

 

[locker669]

People on the internet have "pseudo-anonomousity" where they can think and say whatever they want because they don't really know the people in person. If this happened to their neighbor's daughter they wouldn't say "serves her right she should have known better" even if they thought that.

I really do think that was an awful thing to happen to someone regardless of their age.

 

[NavelTickler75]

I feel sorry for her, no one should go through that, but did she bring it upon herself? Yes. Does it make it right what happened to her? No. But people should be taught at a very early age, never to give personal info to some stranger on the internet. That is only common sense, and fifteen year olds are not void of that. They might feel invicible, as in, this will never happen to me, but they should have common sense.

The only person you shold absolutely trust on line is the people you know off line, and even then you better know them for a long, long time.

 

[Flatfoot]

True up to a point flatfoot,but i grew up in a world where the internet,home computers and cable tv did not exist.A long distance phone call often meant bad news.The potencial for harm is so much greater these days it can't be ignored.When i was a kid i left the house early in the morning and didn't come home until dark and my parents never worried about me.That still happens i'm sure in some places and kids can't be protected from eveything and they should not be.But to allow any child unrestriced acces to a computer is just wrong in my opinion.

Oh, I hear ya! Technology has definitely thrown more variables into the mix, and if parents don't keep up with being tech savvy, kids are gonna run circles around them online. I'm thinking that problem will change and lessen over time with the generational shift, though. I know way more about computers than my parents ever did, and I get frustrated trying to take computer-related advice from people when I can tell they don't know as much as I do about computers. Thinking back to when I was younger, it used to be really mind-numbing trying to get something done to fix the computer when I knew where I had to go, and my father was telling me to slow down while he crawled through the technical manual. I'm sure that once I'm a lot older, some new revolutionary technology will leave me reminiscing about 1 gb thumbdrives, and CD-ROMs, and my children and grandchildren will shake their heads and hide my teeth from me.

 

[Timewarp]

If I could chime in...

Hundreds of years ago, the world was disconnected. Cities, countries continents...had very little to no communication between each other. Because of this communities were more connected together and woven into society. News wasn't as common either. Given the limited technology, news could take days, weeks or even months before reaching another society. Of course when something happened in that community, it was huge news. Given the limited population, anything not of the norm...negative or otherwise, was given the most immediate attention.

But now thanks to the recent inventions of phones, mail, cars, airplanes, internet...etc there is just no need for community sociality anymore. News has also become as common as assuming as the sun rises each day. And with it all the negative and positive stories and happenings, mostly negative. Eventually with all this exposure and lack of community, there's absolutely no surprise if any events are given any attention. It's just so common that we can't stop the world every single time Timmy falls down the well.

It's not like the first time a minor has been raped in history and unfortunately, there's nothing we can do about it in the end. You can't take back a rape or tramatic events. Sure we can try to prevent future rapes or other tragic events...but you can't stop them from happening. That's just the curse and blessing of being human. it's a two-edge sword. We're not heartless...we're just living with the fact we cannot stop it. All we can hope for is that the positives out weigh the negatives.

As for that victim...it's sad. But there's absolutely nothing I can do...because i'm human. I know it's a blessing and curse. Deal with it.

 

[Knox The Hatter]

I don't know this fifteen year old girl. I can't say for sure that she was tantalized by the inherent danger of having a complete stranger from an online environment over, or not...most teenagers love living on the edge a bit. I don't know how well her parents drilled the perils of the Internet into her head. The question is, how can such a thing be prevented in the future?

Oh, okay. It's easier to point a finger of blame. Right.

 

[Flatfoot]

If I could chime in...

Hundreds of years ago, the world was disconnected. Cities, countries continents...had very little to no communication between each other. Because of this communities were more connected together and woven into society. News wasn't as common either. Given the limited technology, news could take days, weeks or even months before reaching another society. Of course when something happened in that community, it was huge news. Given the limited population, anything not of the norm...negative or otherwise, was given the most immediate attention.

But now thanks to the recent inventions of phones, mail, cars, airplanes, internet...etc there is just no need for community sociality anymore. News has also become as common as assuming as the sun rises each day. And with it all the negative and positive stories and happenings, mostly negative. Eventually with all this exposure and lack of community, there's absolutely no surprise if any events are given any attention. It's just so common that we can't stop the world every single time Timmy falls down the well.

It's not like the first time a minor has been raped in history and unfortunately, there's nothing we can do about it in the end. You can't take back a rape or tramatic events. Sure we can try to prevent future rapes or other tragic events...but you can't stop them from happening. That's just the curse and blessing of being human. it's a two-edge sword. We're not heartless...we're just living with the fact we cannot stop it. All we can hope for is that the positives out weigh the negatives.

As for that victim...it's sad. But there's absolutely nothing I can do...because i'm human. I know it's a blessing and curse. Deal with it.

Yeah, I think with the new technology and our fast-paced culture, many have developed a bit of a disillusioned apathy towards things that don't directly affect them.

 

[Capnmad]

This is the only problem I have with your post, to say in this day and age that a 15 year old is far from considering adult level reasoning, is a naive statement to make. As a fairly young member of the forum I know all about girls at this age and they are able to make adult level reasoning. these days kids are growing up much faster than back in the good ol'days. Facts are in this day and age, kids have underage sex with each other, they drink alcohol, and most importantly they know what they're doing. Its the fault of todays society this type of thing is all over tv movies and magazines these days, so its not like they dont know what its all about.

With respect, I disagree -- especially on the "they know what they're doing" part. Some people here -- I'm talking about the legal adults, mind you -- don't know what they're doing. Using substances consumed by adults, trying behaviors reserved for adults, and pretending to be an adult does not make one an adult. One can have knowledge of these practices as well, act provocatively in an adult fashion flaunting apparently adult knowledge, even, but not have a real grasp of the application of such knowledge, the ramifications of one's actions, or be able to accept responsibility for them.


SPOILER ALERT FOR THE CONTENTS OF "AMERICAN BEAUTY"


There's an exceptional movie called "American Beauty" in which a young character played by Mena Suvari brags about her alleged adult experiences, is quite vocal about what she'd do in this or that situtation, acts with an air of superiority as she seems to be near the top of the high school social foodchain, and is sarcastic, judgemental and insulting throughout, thinking herself witty, probably, because of the initial allegiance and reinforcement of her friends -- one of whom is played by Thora Birch. It turns out that all this -- her experience, her apparent knowledge, her seeming confidence -- is a complete sham, and she is, in fact, hysterically insecure (as are many young women, alas) and just drawing attention and rigorously compensating by casting the appearance of what all teenagers want -- the ability to say they're grown and adult. However, her performance is sufficient to fool Lester Burnham, played by Kevin Spacey, who, in something of a glorified mid-life-crisis mindset, very nearly has sex with her. Confronted with reality, Suvari's character finally drops the charade and at least admits that she's never had sex before. She's not the adult she led him on to believe she was. Lester wises up and does the honorable thing: wraps her up, comforts her, and leaves her be.


SPOILER ALERT OVER


The thing is, this situation is hardly strictly fiction. There are many young women out there, not of age, who make fairly convincing shows of having adult level apprehension, but by and large, they do not. These people are often a danger to themselves.

Further, there are even some women who are of age, and yet, for one deficiency or several -- be it a lack of knowledge or foresight, a failure of application of knowledge, or a simple inability to accept responsibility for their actions -- are not what I would consider adult. These people are more often a danger to others, but can also be very much one to themselves.**


Lots of stuff written... let me address it all... No, there is too much -- let me sum up...

Not here to point fingers of blame. I'll leave that to others. I think responsibility in the matter is shared but weighs more heavily on some than others, and should.

I grant that there's nothing that can be done for the specific case. What has been done cannot be undone. What I sought to address was the outright lack of sympathy expressed by some here. Even if we were only speaking of this situation hypothetically, the responses by contributors on this board were, presumably real, and to the extent they were, somewhat concerning. It's one thing to say nothing can be done, or that responsibility is shared or whathaveyou. It's quite another to say you simply can have no sympathy for a victim of gang rape.

Prevention is of paramount importance, and I hope anyone with kids is doing what they think is best to protect them -- and further, I hope it works. And while it's not the topic here, it's still a very good topic and one that should be discussed.

That's all for now. Thanks for contributing, folks, and continue if you like. I'll be back.


**It occurred to me while I was out that I shouldn't let this linger without stating that it is a certainty that there are men here, also, similarly deficient in areas that I would consider necessary to represent oneself as a true adult. My use of the word "women" in my example was used only because of topicality, and is not meant to be singularly representative of those here I consider less than adult. Such deficiencies cut into both sexes.

 

[minerva]

GREAT OP Capnmad, I fully agree to every single word you said!

While this special case is about a 15 year old meeting someone online though, this whole issue basically doesn’t have anything to do with age or location, IMHO. The same thing could have happened to a grown up woman meeting someone at a bar, a restaurant, the grocery store - well everywhere. Inviting a total stranger to your home is certainly not the wisest thing to do, it’s naive, stupid, a big mistake, whatever you want to call it.
But no matter how foolish it is, she certainly doesn’t deserve anything THAT terrible happening to her.

Regarding sympathy for a crime victim – well - I’ve seen women walking around with their handbag open and their purse for everyone to see and have thought to myself, ‘how can anyone be so careless, if they get robbed, it’s their own fault’ and I have to admit, I wouldn’t have too much sympathy for them. But then again, they are still the victim!
But if someone has to pay for their stupidity/mistakes by being so badly hurt or even killed – how could any human being not feel sorry for them, no matter HOW stupid or careless they have been?
And - even if a terrible thing like that is happening to a total stranger – well, it won’t leave me depressed for days, but the minute I hear it, see it on TV, read about it, whatever, my gut reaction would be, ‘OMG, how terrible, poor them’ and I couldn’t even help but feel sorry for them and I can only hope, I will never change my way of feeling/thinking.

For those, who think a foolish crime victim deserve what they got I can only hope they will never make a stupid mistake themselves.

 

[Headsnap]

Hi, big fan of "individual responsibility" here. My motto is "live by the sword, die by the sword", and that sword could be anything from an actual sword to simply acting without thinking or deliberately doing stupid things for some reason. I think I'm pretty jaded and cynical to an almost horrifying degree when it comes to sneering at people getting their comeuppance, wether it's some idiot trying to mix petrol (gasoline... yep, that's right, the high explosive stuff that you put in your car!) with household cleaning agents and subsequently blowing his bungalow to bits or a reporter risking his life for a scoop in a warzone and then ending up a headless corpse in a Baghdad suburb. This doesn't mean that I myself don't ever take risks or do stupid things, I just don't expect sympathy or anything other than scorn when they go wrong.

However, one has to learn to differentiate between adult stupidity and childish naivete. It's one thing scoffing at a 30-year old woman giving out her address over the internet and subsequently being gang raped, and it's another thing entirely for a 15 year old kid to do it. You can't judge a kid by adult parameters, and although the reality is that the only lesson to be learned from this is "giving strange folk your address is not a good idea so don't do it again", it is to my mind unnecessarily harsh to consciously refuse to feel sorry for the poor bugger.

 

[Mastertank1]

Where have I heard that before?

You know, that line about how modern kids are so sophisticated and knowledgeable that they should be treated like and regarded as adults?

Oh, yeah!

That's the same lame ass excuse every ***king child molester has trotted out to try to justify their crime for about the past hundred years!
That is bullshit, pure and simple. Children are children. they are, BY DEFINITION, not responsible for their own actions the way adults are. If they interact with an adult, it is up to the adult to figure it out and NOT HAVE SEX with the child, even with the child's 'consent'. Let alone forcible rape like this kid suffered.

When I hear someone trotting out that old self-serving lie that all the molesters rely on, I have to wonder if they aren't closet or latent molesters themselves.

 

[goddess_nemesis]

I'm going to try to respond as best as I can.

If anybody is going to be pointing fingers and laying blame on anyone, it is to point the finger at and lay the blame solely on the perpetrators who committed that vile crime of raping a 15-year-old.

As for the lack of compassion, I think most people were responding to it as if they would a news article. Feel repulsion for the crime and prepatrator, feel sympathy for the victim, then respond to the crime, how it happened, and how it could've been prevented. I don't think many people meant to come across as insensitive; it's difficult to convey emotions in a post.

Now the girl should have been cautious and smarter with how much information she should have revealed online and to the online friends she had made, however anyone could have made that mistake from a teenager to an adult? Especially for those who are still fairly new to the online world. But nobody, NOBODY, ever asks for something as heinous as that to happen to them. It is terrible, each and every time it happens.

Most teenagers will not admit that anything bad can happen to them and they do think they are invincible. From my own experience (BTW, I'm 20 years old so it hasn't been that long since I've been a teenager. 😀), I've definitely grown up and changed a lot since when I turned 13. My parents got our first computer when I was 12 years old and I was on it a lot. Within the year, we got the Internet. It's amazing how much the Internet has changed in the seven years that I've been using it. When I was 13-14 years old and still fairly new on the Internet, I wasn't as smart as I am now. It takes years to build experience. I enjoyed chatting online, making new online friends; I wasn't too concerned about whether or not I was being safe. For the first few years of getting the computer and the Internet, my parents were smart enough to keep the computer in an open area. As any teenager would in a situation like that, as soon as my mom or dad started moving near me, I'd minimize the page and start viewing something 'safe'. A few times, my parents have caught me doing or looking at something I shouldn't be. They weren't as techno savvy as I was, but they kept an eye on my activities online. I wasn't as safe as I should've been in the early years of being on the Internet, but I've changed a lot and am lot more safer than I was then.

When it comes to teenagers and online activity, it is incredibly important for parents to TALK to their children and teenagers about online dangers and STRESS to them how important it is to stay safe. The best way to prevent something like from ever happening to your own child is to keep the communication line open, talk to them, and more importantly LISTEN to your children. The only way you know that you're getting through to them is to listen.

 

[LindyHopper]

I think part of a lack of empathy in a situation like this is distancing oneself. "Empathy" is putting yourself in another person's shoes, really and truly feeling what they feel. To empathize with a rape victim is to consider that such a thing could happen to you. If you can find a way to blame the victim instead, you can feel safe in the knowledge that you would never find yourself in such a bad situation, because you would never make the same mistake.

So... without trying to justify or excuse such callous behavior... I think it can be understood, at least partially, as a reflex for self-protection.

 

[PainTrain]

When you are online... it is natural to assume that "it doesn't matter, I am online"... Soon, that shit wears thin. Then, you realise that you need something more. Hell, you don't even realise what you need, honestly. You only realise what you NEEDED in your life, of course, by then, it's too late.

 

[Cave In]

You know, that line about how modern kids are so sophisticated and knowledgeable that they should be treated like and regarded as adults?

Oh, yeah!

That's the same lame ass excuse every ***king child molester has trotted out to try to justify their crime for about the past hundred years!
That is bullshit, pure and simple. Children are children. they are, BY DEFINITION, not responsible for their own actions the way adults are. If they interact with an adult, it is up to the adult to figure it out and NOT HAVE SEX with the child, even with the child's 'consent'. Let alone forcible rape like this kid suffered.

When I hear someone trotting out that old self-serving lie that all the molesters rely on, I have to wonder if they aren't closet or latent molesters themselves.

I found that rather offensive mastertank...this was a civillised thread until that post

Because i have that opinion I am a child molestor? You obviously live in the good wholesome community where all kids are good christians that go to church everyday? In the UK its alittle different...

What im talking about is kids in the 15-18 age group. They arent children but they're not quite adult yet. However without question id say kids below that age are kids pure and simple i wouldnt argue otherwise.

However you talk as if its black and white i.e someone who 17 years and 12months is a child who doesnt know better as to the same person at 18 who is an adult? I'm not condoning anything! All i was saying that kids at this age are not as clueless as you think when it comes to this stuff...Not ALL, some...And I dont say it as justification for molestors they have no justification and should be shot imo.

My point was kids at that age have sex, with other people there age, and when they do its not like they dont know what to do, magazines show them, tv shows them, even the internet and forums give them advice on what to do....THAT was my point. If you read it properly you would have realised it had fuck all to do with molestation!

That may seem harsh but your post was offensive.

 

[Azrael]

A fifteen-year-old girl was raped by two large men who presented false information in order to gain her trust and commit an act of terrible brutality and dehumanization on someone who was in no position to defend herself.

Anyone who has no compassion for her, anyone who feels the need to bring up whose fault it is, is a fucking psycho freak. Pure and simple. There simply is no other consideration. You don't need to fill up your compassion tank for $3.29 a gallon, once or twice a week at a minimum, but I'm sure a lot of these people would help out a friend who needed a fast lift somewhere. Compassion is free, and your supply of it is not special. Everyone deserves it.

Some people have lives so devoid of any feelings of personal importance that they will seize on a genuine fucking tragedy to make themselves look high-and-mighty by bludgeoning someone already in a state of trauma, someone who is in no position to defend themselves, with their opinions. I'd like to see any one of these people go up to that 15-year-old girl and say to her face that it was 'her fault' and they had 'no compassion...'

I wouldn't think them any better for it, but at least they'd show that they had something resembling nerve.

It is not this girl's fault that she lives in a world where not trusting people, not being friendly, is required for personal safety. It is the fault of the people who allowed it to become that way through not... fucking... caring. It doesn't affect them, so why should they be bothered giving a shit? I doubt that something this traumatic happened to THEM to make them feel that way in the first place. Nor do I feel that such would be justifying; suffering through an evil does not mean wishing it upon others for some perverted sense of self-satisfaction.