Butterfly Effect

[-Hari-]

A rectangle just cast some words in another thread about, the butterfly effect, heard it a hundred times before but never been in as awkward a mood as I am today.

This is more laziness than anything, But I seriously question the logic behind the phrase and aint in the mood for googling.

I assume the butterfly affect is more a message than a fact, just something you say to make sense of something else, little things can equal big things, And that a butterfly couldnt really start a hurricane....

For the sake of conversation, has it been proved either way if a butterfly could actually DO this?

 

[Artoo]

The butterfly causing a hurricane is simply a metaphor.

It means that a system that changes with time can express traits that remain highly dependent on initial conditions, regardless of what happens between them.

Essentially cause and effect, though on a much grander and complex scale than previously guessed at.

 

[-Hari-]

The butterfly causing a hurricane is simply a metaphor.

It means that a system that changes with time can express traits that remain highly dependent on initial conditions, regardless of what happens between them.

Essentially cause and effect, though on a much grander and complex scale than previously guessed at.

Thought so, altho I do like the idea, all we would have to do to wipe out china is blow in theyre general direction

 

[naughtylucy]

It's a curious thing, this. Example?

 

[-Hari-]

It's a curious thing, this. Example?

smile at people, and that little smile could lead to marriage.

It says do the little things and they may turn into bigger things.

My example is probably a crap one tho.

 

[venray]

Every little thing we do has an effect on something else and so on and so on.....

So yes...if we fart in the general direction of china it could do something.....most possibly 20 million years from now before the effect would occur though....

 

[Knox The Hatter]

For example, make a dent in the trade deficit?

 

[milagros317]

An example often used:

Imagine it is 265 million BC and the first mammal has evolved, the ancestor to all living mammals. A big dinosaur almost steps on it, missing it by inches. Suppose the dinosaur had stepped just a little differently, squashing it. From that tiny cause, there would be no mammals (including no humans) on earth today.

 

[fordtech30]

I have recently discovered the meaning behind this.

In our lives there is energy. Positive and negative. Our moods influence the things around us. If we are positive we draw positive energy. If we are negative we draw negative energy. For instance: If you go to work thinking it's gonna be long day, then it will seem to last forever.

If you visualize yourself being a happy person. Then others will perceive you as that.

I think the butterfly affect is the simple things we can do that will lead to much larger things.

Taking two minutes in the morning to think about what your thankful for will lead to a much better and amazing day. It will cause your energy to become positive.

 

[Goodieluver]

Although the butterfly analogy is wrong, but there are other aspects of the general theory that can hold true. Such as the step on a bug and because of that, civilization is gone in 200 years

 

[c7_assassin]

I have recently discovered the meaning behind this.

In our lives there is energy. Positive and negative. Our moods influence the things around us. If we are positive we draw positive energy. If we are negative we draw negative energy. For instance: If you go to work thinking it's gonna be long day, then it will seem to last forever.

If you visualize yourself being a happy person. Then others will perceive you as that.

I think the butterfly affect is the simple things we can do that will lead to much larger things.

Taking two minutes in the morning to think about what your thankful for will lead to a much better and amazing day. It will cause your energy to become positive.

I think you're describing the Secret.

And not to be insensitive to your beliefs, but the Secret is beyond crap.

 

[Skipadeedoodah]

I think you're describing the Secret.

And not to be insensitive to your beliefs, but the Secret is beyond crap.

I hate when people think they can say something insulting just because they say, "no offense" or some derivative thereof.

 

[c7_assassin]

I hate when people think they can say something insulting just because they say, "no offense" or some derivative thereof.

Well, whether you take it personal or not is your business, the point is that it wasn't my intention.

If we want to have a debate about the monument of utter crapitude that is the Secret, we should start another thread, I guess...

 

[Dussicar]

Although the butterfly analogy is wrong, but there are other aspects of the general theory that can hold true. Such as the step on a bug and because of that, civilization is gone in 200 years

200 Years?

But I want civilization gone now!

 

[-Hari-]

Every little thing we do has an effect on something else and so on and so on.....

So yes...if we fart in the general direction of china it could do something.....most possibly 20 million years from now before the effect would occur though....

seriously tho? a fart? I just cant see it

 

[venray]

seriously tho? a fart? I just cant see it

OK so lets say you get pissed off because a tree is cutting off your view of the hot neighbor girl's flat so you chop it down....


The squirrel family living there has now a need to find another home and nests upon the electric pole across the way....


poppa squirrel chews through a wire and knocks power out across the town...


the neighbor that you were trying to peep at falls down the stairs in the dark and dies....


All because you chopped the tree you perv.....

Point is that every decision we make and action we take has an effect on our lives and the lives of all around us going forward....

It doesnt matter how small an action it is, it WILL have some effect that will build like a snowball running down hill..

 

[Artoo]

 

[Redmage]

The butterfly causing a hurricane is simply a metaphor.

It means that a system that changes with time can express traits that remain highly dependent on initial conditions, regardless of what happens between them.

Essentially cause and effect, though on a much grander and complex scale than previously guessed at.

A good summary. There's a slight nuance to the whole "cause and effect" issue that I think is important.

Chaos theory (which is where we get the concept of the "butterfly effect") says that certain systems (and only certain systems) exhibit the "sensitive dependence on initial conditions" that you mentioned. "Sensitive dependence" is defined mathematically (you gave the definition in a later post):

It means that in such a system two different starting points can be as similar as you want them to be so long as they aren't identical, and still lead to radically different outcomes.

Or to put it another way, the two starting points can be so similar that no one could possibly tell them apart, and yet still lead to different ends. The metaphor is that in weather (which displays sensitive dependence), a butterfly's wings in South America - something so small that you'd never be able to spot it - can change the weather in the United States.

So while it's still cause and effect, an effect can arise from such a tiny cause that you can never find out what it was. So it might very well look random (hence "chaos theory").

And no, we've never proven that a butterfly can do this. By definition, you can't prove the cause in a system with sensitive dependence. But the existence of sensitive dependence can be demonstrated mathematically.

 

[kurchatovium]

There was a movie called The Butterfly Effect. The movie was essentialy about time travel. The implication is of course that changing a few simple things in the past creates greatly different outcomes in the future. In this movie the person in question tries to alter time to give him and his friends a better life. He fails of course.

A short story by Ray Bradbury involving time travel also used the metaphorical butterfly. The story was called A Sound Of Thunder if I remember right. It was about going back in time to hunt dinosaurs.

 

[-Hari-]

OK so lets say you get pissed off because a tree is cutting off your view of the hot neighbor girl's flat so you chop it down....


The squirrel family living there has now a need to find another home and nests upon the electric pole across the way....


poppa squirrel chews through a wire and knocks power out across the town...


the neighbor that you were trying to peep at falls down the stairs in the dark and dies....


All because you chopped the tree you perv.....

Point is that every decision we make and action we take has an effect on our lives and the lives of all around us going forward....

It doesnt matter how small an action it is, it WILL have some effect that will build like a snowball running down hill..

yeah but a fart?

 

[venray]

yeah but a fart?

A really really bad fart....