About ties and safewords...

[Tango_Feather]

I don't know if there's already a thread on the subject, but I'd really love to know your thoughts on that.

Here's the thing, I find the use of safewords kind of... dunno, bumpy?
Maybe I've been lucky to have sessions with either good friends or really into it women. But I find it more enjoyable when the balance of control is totally one-sided.
I happen to think it may be also about self control, I mean, I usually am really mean...BUT not cruel do you know what I mean?

Or also, have you had any bad experience with the use of safewords?

 

[ticklehound]

Not sure exactly what you mean by "bumpy."

But by context, I take it that you mean, that you don't agree with or fully understand the use of safe words. Correct me if I'm wrong.

I think safe words are necessary for safe, consistent, mutually enjoyable tickle play. Now, if you have an agreement not to use them, that btw tickler & ticklee, but it's all about trust. And not using safe words takes a lot of trust.

The ticklee needs to know that the tickling will end if it gets too intense. And it's up to the tickler to not only respect that, but help the ticklee push his/her limits to points they never thought possible.

That's how I've been able to get my girlfriend to be able to advance from a few brief seconds to more than two minutes of intense tickling. It may not seem like a lot to some here, but for a true vanilla, that's a big step.

 

[Myriads]

Safewords are like the airbag in your car. You never want the thing to go off, but if you need it, you are damned happy it's there.

At it's most simple, a safeword is there in case something utterly unexpected happens. When one is playing about with S&M (of which tickling is an aspect) there are all sorts of physical, emotional, and mental landmines that can go off in a bound up persons head. You (and even they) can never be sure what might pop up and cause issues. And if that happens you need a 100% sure-thing stopper.

If you are seeing a lot of safe word use, then something is wrong, probably that neither you or your partner really understand why its there.

Myriads

 

[Teal]

What's the weird aversion to safewords that keeps popping up on this forum? I don't think that people get that while the ler is superficially in control, the lee is the one that's actually in control of the situation - they are granting you access to their body, and can revoke that privilege at any time. You don't have the right to continue when your partner really, truly wants something to stop - and why the hell would you want to for that matter?

 

[bethaknee]

Safe words are good for a couple of things. One, for the obvious: for the safety of all involved. Two, for those into the whole consensual non consent thing like me: you can say "don't" or "stop" all you want, but until you say the agreed upon safe word, it can keep going.

 

[ticklehound]

What's the weird aversion to safewords that keeps popping up on this forum? I don't think that people get that while the ler is superficially in control, the lee is the one that's actually in control of the situation - they are granting you access to their body, and can revoke that privilege at any time. You don't have the right to continue when your partner really, truly wants something to stop - and why the hell would you want to for that matter?

I don't know why some people keep bringing it up. People who say they are averse to safe words are likely people who need to be at least 500ft away from me.

 

[Tango_Feather]

Thanks for the answers! I really appreciate it!
As I said, I wanted to know your posture on the subject since I'm relatively new. I've had about... 10 sessions, roughly, but as ticklehound said, it may have been that there was a lot of trust in those scenarios. Or the other person was really really into it (I can only confirm one girl was).

What's the weird aversion to safewords that keeps popping up on this forum? I don't think that people get that while the ler is superficially in control, the lee is the one that's actually in control of the situation - they are granting you access to their body, and can revoke that privilege at any time. You don't have the right to continue when your partner really, truly wants something to stop - and why the hell would you want to for that matter?

I don't remember ever saying I was averse to the idea. And maybe that's the way you talk, so I'm not gonna take badly the tone on which I read that, but still... I was trying to ask politely for your opinions, sorry if it came out wrong.

As I said, I have no aversion for a safeword, I actually like what Bethan said. As I said, it might be about self control, I tend to be pretty good at reading the other persons mood so as to know when she's had enough. So far I've got no complain on that, just the opposite.

 

[Teal]

I don't remember ever saying I was averse to the idea. And maybe that's the way you talk, so I'm not gonna take badly the tone on which I read that, but still... I was trying to ask politely for your opinions, sorry if it came out wrong.

As I said, I have no aversion for a safeword, I actually like what Bethan said. As I said, it might be about self control, I tend to be pretty good at reading the other persons mood so as to know when she's had enough. So far I've got no complain on that, just the opposite.

I wasn't talking about you in particular, it's just I've seen a whole bunch of topics in the past that said things to the effect of "I don't use safewords and no one else should either." I figured you didn't mean that, sorry if it seemed like I was calling you out or something.

 

[cloudgazer2k]

Can't really have a "bad experience" with safewords, IMHO. A predesignated signal that stops the scene is a necessity for most, and not so much for those that know each other intimately.

I've had a few play partners who I could read like a book, but I still insist on a safeword. I don't want to mistake a bad reaction for a good one and harm somebody unintentionally.

If you're having trouble with figuring out one that works, here's an idea from Hywel Phillips and Ariel Anderssen from RestrainedElegance.com:

We always go through our safety procedures with every model on every shoot. We have a rule that anyone can call cut at any time. So if the model starts to go numb or has a knot poking into her or any other issue, we cut and untie them.

We use "cut" as a safeword for two reasons: firstly because it is a film industry standard which most people know, and second because "cut" happens to be a word one can usually say clearly even if gagged. But to reinforce that we have two more safety signals just in case the performer doesn't think they can convey "cut" clearly enough. The second is to make a repeated short "mmm" noise. This is distinctive and distinctively different from usual struggling "mmmmmph" noises. The third is repeated blinking, again something you'd never normally do on set. And again we go through all of this with every model during the briefing and risk assessment.

 

[Teal]

I don't remember ever saying I was averse to the idea. And maybe that's the way you talk, so I'm not gonna take badly the tone on which I read that, but still... I was trying to ask politely for your opinions, sorry if it came out wrong.

As I said, I have no aversion for a safeword, I actually like what Bethan said. As I said, it might be about self control, I tend to be pretty good at reading the other persons mood so as to know when she's had enough. So far I've got no complain on that, just the opposite.

I wasn't talking about you in particular, it's just I've seen a whole bunch of topics in the past that said things to the effect of "I don't use safewords and no one else should either." I figured you didn't mean that, sorry if it seemed like I was calling you out or something.

 

[ClickChix]

Oh, this is a very interesting topic.

I do agree with safe words, they are always needed for everyones safety. BUT, I have met some models, sessioners, and personal life lees who OVER USE the safe word.

I have not even touched a lee before and they started screaming RED! After awhile that does become an annoyance, when I was hired to tickle someone and they don't want to take it or try.
So sometimes safe words are....I guess "Abused" by lees. But you can't argue with a safe word, because even as a LER I may feel they are faking it or being a baby (hahaha) I still have to respect the safe word and stop what I'm doing and let them relax.

hahaha The topic could totally be flipped too because I have had some lees that really should use the safe word but they are holding out until they wet themselves or cant catch their breath lol Then I am left asking "Why didnt you use the safe word" and they always respond the same "I just enjoyed the torture so much" hahaha But its comforting to a lee and a LER knowing that safe words are there and will always be respected.

 

[P[a]pi]

I like my safe words (safe actions) more smooth, like my peanut butter.

 

[A/S/H]

I just hope my first session is with someone who respects safe words. I'm not ready for or really interested in the extreme stuff at the moment. The thought of being tied down and tickled for a lengthy period of time kind of scares me enough as it is (even though I want to try it REALLY badly lol)

 

[SoleMates]

Well, obviously, I won't shoot without one. It covers my ass and makes the models, especially amateurs, feel more secure. You want the girls to feel secure; that way they relax and give a more natural reaction.

I'm always amused when I work with someone new and, upon hearing the safeword is "red", they say something like "standard stoplight system, okay." I get to bust out my "This ain't your first rodeo, is it?" line and we have a laugh. Then I tickle the crap outta them and we have more laughs. Win-win.

What's the weird aversion to safewords that keeps popping up on this forum?

Some people don't feel they're necessary. They pride themselves on their ability to read people and sense when that line is about to be crossed. Some people, consensually, like to push each other waaaayyyy over their limits. And, of course, some people are control freaks who can't stand the idea of someone being able to tell them "no". You uh, wanna stay away from that last one.

 

[ElFewja]

I like to consider myself a good read too, but I also have to recognize I'm not the other person and there are things that I just cannot know about what they're going through. Hearing the 3 system one, three different hard stops, is really enlightening though and I think that should be employed. I say that because of how a stroke can affect the brain and how language becomes difficult during that, at times. Not to say that that's a perfect solution to such a situation, but yeah. It's better to have options.

Personally I don't think I've ever established a safeword, partially out of laziness, but I've stopped at any indication of 'I need a break.' I also usually let up when I know I've been going hard for a longer time, or when their breathing becomes a thing. I've also only ever pushed someone hard enough that they absolutely needed me to stop once.

Yeah, sessions are about trust, honestly, so if you were intimate with these people and you had a strong feel that you didn't need to stop, whatever. It's still probably worthwhile to set something up, but an individual is usually able to make it clear when something needs to stop. Now, safeword abuse... heh.

 

[purple2306]

What I do is tell my Wife in advance (when using a gag) snap one time if I do something you don't like.
Snap your fingers two times or rapidly and I will stop ASAP.
So when I'm tied if you don't hear a snap.....
Keep going!