and now, a word about sexual harassment...

[steph]

A.K.A "how pitiful is this?"

So I'm at work, chatting w/one of my best friends in the building, Shirlee. She's a single mom w/2 kids, has worked here for years, is a devout Catholic lady and just a real sweet heart. She is (like me) kind of a cuddly girl who loves to hug and get hugs.

She told me she'd been called into the office by her supervisor to say that someone had written an anonymous (shocker) letter to say that watching her hug somebody else was offensive to THEM because THEY considered it sexual harassment. She was the only one named in the letter, BTW.

The jist is, if she is seen hugging anyone ever again, they can take action against her. She said the boss hated to say it and disagreed with the letter writer but since there are, yanno, LAWS, she had to let Shirlee know.

I mean how pitiful is this? How the HELL did we get to this place?

Your thoughts, as always, are welcome.

XOXO

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

Its overreacting and overzealousness on the part of office rules and personal representation of what sexual harassment is.

I think for something to truely constitute sexual harassment there has to be sexual undertones of some kind, however subtle and hard to pick up they are.

If hugging a person out of love, respect, admiration, or in this case....good nature is wrong, then we're truely overreacting and in a bad way in the professional work environment.

I'm not a very touchy feely person myself except for those I'm friendly with and comfortable. But if your friend wants to do this and the people didn't mind, I say let her be. Spreading some office cheer and good will never hurt anyone.

In actuality, I can see why the supervisor agrees with her. Things like this are good boosts for morale and foster less tense working environments. And they increase a personal sense of well-being among workers, and that increases productivity.

This person who claims to be offended by seeing but not being a part of these hugs is sick and obviously just looking to cause trouble. Who knows what angle this person is trying to play, if any. It could just be spite, or even jealousy that motivates them.

While its a shame they're getting their way, just leave them be too. Whatever motivates them to feel and think this way is probably a result of past experiences. They could be a bitter person who has had negative experiences with being affectionate and close to people and they're looking to deny that to others. You just don't know what kind of problems and emotional baggage people carry into the workplace. This person could probably stand to learn a thing or two from your friend's hugs.

This person seems to be a common day Scrooge, except its not about money. For shame.

 

[steph]

No wonder we get a long so well--we share the same brain! Everything you said is EXACTLY why I was so angry about this! I mean if she were giving friendly pats on the butt, I could see it, but really now...

And guess what I told her at the end of the discussion? "They're probably just jealous because nobody wants to hug THEM!"

XOXO

 

[Wicker Man]

Welcome to the post 9/11, paranoia, cold, impersonal, George W. Bush Americana Steph! Write my sig down and hand it to Shirlee.

 

[Dr. Vollin]

Yeah, well said, WickerMan. Let's all pretend this stuff wasn't going on before 9/11. If you must bring G.W. Bush into it, why not stick to the P & R forum?

And it really sucks what they're doing to your friend, Steph. Do you think she can fight this - I would if it happened to me. Or I'd walk out of that place without a second thought.

 

[Wicker Man]

Thanks Violin but there was a thread about the Pope on General Discussion so the President is open too. They are simply too large to be sequestered on any Politcs and Religion thread, to think they should be is naivity in its highest degree. And after 9/11 this country has collapsed into a McCarthyism like Terrorist Fear. Living under this rule is far worse than a few terrorist with boxcutters Daddy-O but im glad you liked my post, feel free to give me a buzz anytime uh...whats your name again?

 

[Dr. Vollin]

Uh, sure. It's all about the Pope and the President, uh huh. I guess the concept that this "harassment" crap was going down long before G. W. was too much for you to handle.

 

[vampirecult]

LOL Oh hmm well speaking of sexual harassment. Me and my best friend could have gone to jail for sexual harassment comments back when we were still in high school. We even got send down to the principles office for it and got talken to. But lucky enough our principle and our teachers in our class were both kind enough to us. Not to take it any furture with our parents and the cops. So we got off scott free! boy did that turn us around me and my best friend........ we shaped up alot. Since we didn't know what was going to happen so needless to say we got kind of freaked out. We could have gone to jail to both me and my best friend because we were old enough.

 

[Wicker Man]

LOL!!! Ok Violin, Myriads patience has its limits so im gonna walk away and watch the Yankee game (no boos and hisses please!) it was nice meeting you and hope to further my discussions with you on future threads. Take care and Vampirecult...I thought you were a Laker fan!

 

[vampirecult]

LOL!!! Ok Vollin, Myriads patience has its limits so im gonna walk away and watch the Yankee game (no boos and hisses please!) it was nice meeting you and hope to further my discussions with you on future threads. Take care and Vampirecult...I thought you were a Laker fan!

Booo Hissss (LOL just kidding Wicker Man! )


Lakers fan? ewwww no way.... i'm a Portland Trail Blazers fan baby

 

[steph]

Well...

I know my outlook on life is a little more Pollyanna than most but it just made me feel sad, that something as sweet and innocent as a HUG could ever be labelled "offensive" let alone "SEXUALLY" harassing, especially coming from someone so non-offensive and loving by nature.

I only wish I could find out who this gutless wonder is, so I could tell them how lucky they are, to not have anything more important in their lives to whine about.

XOXO

 

[General Zod]

Hmmmmmm I see "sexual harrasment" has come full circle Now women in the workplace get to live in fear of being labled for sexual harrasment

 

[steph]

Well gen, I'm going to take a shower~long day~(and no, the sarcasm wasn't lost on me )

When I come back if you'd like to discuss further, I'll share a couple stories about times I COULD have claimed sexual harassment and opted not to. We don't ALL think the same you know...

XOXO

 

[General Zod]

Well gen, I'm going to take a shower~long day~(and no, the sarcasm wasn't lost on me )

When I come back if you'd like to discuss further, I'll share a couple stories about times I COULD have claimed sexual harassment and opted not to. We don't ALL think the same you know...

XOXO

For God's sake Steph I know all women don't think like that it is not easy being a man in the workplace nowdays That's one reason I am glad I drive truck I don't have to put up with anyone else
If a man gets accused of sexual harrasment.whether he deserves it or not,that will stay with him a looooooooooong time

When I was in the USAF I knew guys with a lot of rank who were actually afraid to give a woman they outranked an order to do something for fear of being labeled with sexual harrasment

Did your freind commit it? No

 

[steph]

I know. And I've also been watching you long enough to know that you were trying to make a point and not attack me personally. And I appreciate that, I truly do.

XOXO

 

[General Zod]

Don't mind me Steph I am just gettin more and more bitter as time goes by

 

[steph]

LOL~Well, stories like this certainly help me understand how some of my "bitter" friends got that way...
XOXO

 

[tickleshotel]

Steph,I'm agree with you ,,this truly is pitiful that due to someone at your work place that somehow was offended by shirley giving someone else a hug at work being her affectionate warm sweet self that shirley has been told she doesn't have the right to give a co-worker that is a friend a friendly hug when she has the longing,or wanting to hug someone in greeting as she says hello to them in the mornings,ect..
While shirley's supervisor told her she could not hug anyone else at work,I wonder how strict ,to what lengths the law can be enforced?? Does this mean that if shirley meets a friend in parking lot before heading into work that she isn;t able to hug them ..period?
This is a shame that due to some people;s actions,it;s starting to look like that we are having the freedom,liberty to show each person;s personality,uniqueness away which is a disgrace

 

[Brookie]

I read the post Steph and agree with you concern. I have a question about this topic. What exactly is harassment? Can one person's personal view about hugging really be considerd harassment? Would the law really consider her point of view or would it be the average opinions of many. It's a pretty gray area but there must be enough case law available by now to understand what is and is not harassment. In my view it's not, so why would the superior believe he should bring it to your friends attention. I'm wondering if your friend should talk to HR to see if this response was reasonable or not.
In my view there may be harassment, not sexual but harassment of your friend. To me there needs to be some skin in the game if there is a harassment charge ie if you're wrong then you are the one harrasing and your friend could charge her.

Did the individual go through HR I wonder.......I would think they could talk to her and perhaps get her to agree that the hugging is not harrasment. Either way it's upset the moral of your work place and no one wins when that happens.

 

[steph]

You pose some good questions Laurie. I wish I knew the answers. I was thinking up all kinds of scenarios too, exceptions to the rule...What if there's a death in family? Am I supposed to (or should I say "allowed" to) go up and shake her hand without some freak wigging over seeing two females touching?

One of my closest friends, who's pregnant with her first, just went to the doc today, she felt weird. Turns out she's at risk for early delivery at 32 weeks. As a precaution, the doc decided to take her out of work NOW, put her on bed rest, at least pending test results. The boss is on vacay so this isn't exactly convenient for the rest of us but the baby and Kiki's health is what's most important now. Before she left Kiki said to us, "Guys, I need a hug!" Of course we gave her one!

XOXO

 

[steph]

Thanks Brookie~
The situation is further complicated by the fact that Shirlee and I don't just work in separate depts, I'm not an actual "hospital employee." I'm what they call a vendor, an independent contractor. Even though I WORK in a hospital, I work for a group of non profit attorneys. Actual hospital employees belong to a union, whereas I don't. When my boss gets back, I will have her look into this more and get the facts AFA Shirlee's rights...Hmmm....Now y'all have really got me wondering and I love it...

XOXO

I read the post Steph and agree with you concern. I have a question about this topic. What exactly is harassment? Can one person's personal view about hugging really be considerd harassment? Would the law really consider her point of view or would it be the average opinions of many. It's a pretty gray area but there must be enough case law available by now to understand what is and is not harassment. In my view it's not, so why would the superior believe he should bring it to your friends attention. I'm wondering if your friend should talk to HR to see if this response was reasonable or not.
In my view there may be harassment, not sexual but harassment of your friend. To me there needs to be some skin in the game if there is a harassment charge ie if you're wrong then you are the one harrasing and your friend could charge her.

Did the individual go through HR I wonder.......I would think they could talk to her and perhaps get her to agree that the hugging is not harrasment. Either way it's upset the moral of your work place and no one wins when that happens.

 

[tickleshotel]

You pose some good questions Laurie. I wish I knew the answers. I was thinking up all kinds of scenarios too, exceptions to the rule...What if there's a death in family? Am I supposed to (or should I say "allowed" to) go up and shake her hand without some freak wigging over seeing two females touching?

One of my closest friends, who's pregnant with her first, just went to the doc today, she felt weird. Turns out she's at risk for early pregnancy at 32 weeks. As a precaution, the doc decided to take her out of work NOW, put her on bed rest, at least pending test results. The boss is on vacay so this isn't exactly convenient for the rest of us but the baby and Kiki's health is what's most important now. Before she left Kiki said to us, "Guys, I need a hug!" Of course we gave her one!

XOXO

That's what I'm talking about too steph..If a friend,person you know verbally tells you that they are in need of a hug to comfort them for any reason,then I personally would find it lacking of me to *Not* give them a hug..A good way of seeing whether a person is open to receiving hugs or giving one is observe their body language,making eye contact,ect.I love to give and receive hugs whether meeting for first time,new friend,or longtime friend,..

But there are some people I have met that weren't so open to giving or receiving hugs because they felt a need to get to know the person,warm up by making smalltalk,ect .

 

[steph]

Yeah...I think for Shirlee's sake, this def bears further investigation. Thanks for inspiring me friends, you never fail to amaze... Something about this just didn't seem right and now I know why...

XOXO

 

[Oddjob0226]

Keep hugging - there's no solid case here. Generally it's been established by the courts that sexual harassment involves A.) a pattern of offensive behavior, and B). when the offender is in a superior position of authority. If this person feels that consensual hugging is sexual harassment, what that actually is then, constitutes a 'hostile work environment' - at least that's what the law would call it based on the offended letter writer's perspective. If you friend continues to hug and does get fired or disciplined, she can herself sue the workplace for wrongful termination since the criteria of sexual harassment was not met in the disciplining. Yes, this has what it has come to - so use the system that's currently in place! Power to the people!

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

No wonder we get a long so well--we share the same brain! Everything you said is EXACTLY why I was so angry about this! I mean if she were giving friendly pats on the butt, I could see it, but really now...

And guess what I told her at the end of the discussion? "They're probably just jealous because nobody wants to hug THEM!"

XOXO

What some don't get they want to take from others. Thats just the way a depraved mind works. I'm not sure whether to feel sorry for people in this state of mind or what. In some ways, alot of ways, its these people that need the hugs.