Cosby's Rant

[MikeMike]

Very interesting remarks by Bill Cosby:

Washington Post
Wednesday, May 19, 2004; Page C03

Bill Cosby was anything but politically correct in his remarks Monday night at a Constitution Hall bash commemorating the 50th anniversary of the Brown v. Board of Education decision. To astonishment, laughter and applause, Cosby mocked everything from urban fashion to black spending and speaking habits.

"Ladies and gentlemen, the lower economic people are not holding up their end in this deal," he declared. "These people are not parenting. They are buying things for kids--$500 sneakers for what? And won't spend $200 for 'Hooked on Phonics.' . . .

"They're standing on the corner and they can't speak English," he exclaimed. "I can't even talk the way these people talk: 'Why you ain't,' 'Where you is' . . . And I blamed the kid until I heard the mother talk. And then I heard the father talk. . . . Everybody knows it's important to speak English except these knuckleheads. . . . You can't be a doctor with that kind of crap coming out of your mouth!"

The Post's Hamil Harris reports that Cosby also turned his wrath to "the incarcerated," saying: "These are not political criminals. These are people going around stealing Coca-Cola. People getting shot in the back of the head over a piece of pound cake and then we run out and we are outraged, [saying] 'The cops shouldn't have shot him.' What the hell was he doing with the pound cake in his hand?"

When Cosby finally concluded, Howard University President H. Patrick Swygert, NAACP President Kweisi Mfume and NAACP legal defense fund head Theodore Shaw came to the podium looking stone-faced. Shaw told the crowd that most people on welfare are not African American, and many of the problems his organization has addressed in the black community were not self-inflicted.

 

[sincerity]

maybe it's time we put him in a home.

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

I relucantly agree with Cosby on this. But only to the degree that-

"They're standing on the corner and they can't speak English," he exclaimed. "I can't even talk the way these people talk: 'Why you ain't,' 'Where you is' . . . And I blamed the kid until I heard the mother talk. And then I heard the father talk. . . . Everybody knows it's important to speak English except these knuckleheads. . . . You can't be a doctor with that kind of crap coming out of your mouth!"

And what I mean by this is that its true that many people of different backgrounds are like this. I think Cosby can get away with saying it more than I can because he's black and I'm white. I would seem like a racist because I am a white person agreeing about this about black people.

I assure you however, I am NOT a racist. I have black friends, some of which I grew up with as friends. I would just as easily break bread with a black person as I would one of my own or any other race or ethnic background for that matter. Anyways, enough about me.

I think, for Cosby to say this is a bit blunt, but truthful of JUST ONE ASPECT of how people may act, speak, or behave.

Anyways, if I may be so bold as to continue, Cosby was and did air dirty laundry. It was out of line, but that doesn't make it less true or false. The truth hurts, and as a matter of fact, polls on t.v indicated that some 80-90% of the people that took those polls in response to his remarks agreed with him and didn't think that he was out of line. Some of the people that were interviewed were black, and agreed with him. He got far more support for his words than he did criticism or chastizement.

I mainly agree, above all else, with this statement inparticular-

"Everybody knows it's important to speak English except these knuckleheads. . . . You can't be a doctor with that kind of crap coming out of your mouth!"

This especially true of ANY person. You can't expect to be treated as a professional or taken seriously if you lack the fundamentals of what makes a professional, including manner of speech. Even if you did manage to keep your ways intact and still make it through only to release them later or make them habitual in your professional life or in the workplace, a place you need to be professional, needless to say, thats career suicide for any number of reasons.

Inevitably, it is the parents that are the cause of this problem. And it is their parent's fault and/or the fault of their lifestyle, which, they have control over. If they don't have control over the environment, then they can take measures to teach their children what is acceptable and what is not even if they haven't lived that way. As long as they try and change too then they wouldn't be hypocrites.

The sad fact is many parents that would fall into the catergory of persons Cosby is discribing, is that the parents are not good role models because they didn't learn the right way either. This urban slang was created in the ghetto. It was figured that no one would care because it was it's own community. But it is ever more a double-edged sword that is today creating a clash of interests and styles wherein the child is at a loss and wants to do what is coming naturally, but is quite possibly open to learning what he or she needs to make it as a fully functional member of society. The only problem is theres no one there to teach them in most cases. And slang and the like is encouraged by the environment and world around them.

This is just as much an issue of how people raise their kids as it is about ridiculously expensive sneakers or foul, broken, and improper speech.

I, for one, cannot see any bad in what Cosby has said. I'm not saying it needed to be said because we know it already. But obviously he is peeved about it and needed to let it out. I will agree however that there perhaps would have been better ways to do it. I'm sure his words have put him in bad with part of the black community, but in reality the only ones that are going to be offended are the ones this would apply to.

He's obviously not speaking of all black people, as there are educated, intellgent and otherwise "proper" black citizens all around us who are successful by their own merits, troubles, sacrifices, and determination in spite of any lingering adversity that still exists in this country toward black people, other minorities, and immigrants.

These blacks were infused with what everyone should be. And its a real shame that things are the way they are so much so that it takes an over the hill actor to say so, and about his own people no less.


EDIT: Its also important for my sake to point out that I did not see or hear the entirety of Cosby's speech. I am limited to the issues of slang speech and illiteracy as the issues I myself addressed.

As for anything else he might have said, I can't call what I didn't see or hear and therefore cannot agree or disagree farther than I have. All I can do is estimate from what I do know. And I feel that it is legitimate of me, thus far, to do so.

 

[areenactor]

old folks home? rude? please!

my first reaction was "bill cosby for president".
why is speaking the truth to the very group that needs to hear it most wrong?
glad to see there are still some celebrities that have their heads on straight!

steve

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

And he was called an 'Uncle Tom' for it. That was unnecessary, just because he hit a nerve with some people. I don't see how he's a sellout or "has forgotten where he has come from". Where he has come from? What exactly is that supposed to mean? That he should have chose to live that way also?

There is clearly a difference between successful black people and those that are not. And ironically its not the money, the job, or the career. Its a mind set, its a trained thought pattern, its an iron will, and a determination to settle for nothing less of what they set out to do which makes them different from their lower-income counterparts. Its ambition. Many urban kids have nothing more than 'hoop dreams' and no actual plan for their life, or goal or career-orriented dream. Children would rather be in the NBA than be a doctor or hold some prestigious position. Thats an easy way out if you ask me, and its settling. And its not helping that the parents are "not holding up their end of the deal". The deal is with their children, and they are shortchanging them.

Yes, I'm sure it is very difficult for these families. Everyone knows what its like to suffer or go through trials. But a human always has the option of progressing and making things better.

Anyone that says that black people are still being held back by the white man are lying right through their teeth, and everyone knows it. Thanks to a reformed government outlook on the matter, a black person has just as much a chance of getting into college as I do. In fact, there are many more schollarships available to him just for being black. I wish them the best.

Black people hold the keys to many doors, but they simply aren't using them.

 

[qjakal]

Yes...and no

Yup, there's opportunities and options that DO exist because you're a minority, but I've often wondered as my career and life have progressed whether or not I would have gotten the same deals/terms/chances if I was black. Would they have sold me that house I bought in 1982 and let me assume the mortgage? Would I have gotten it for more money...or at all? Would that gent have decided to sell his business to me or would he have chosen another offer similar in structure from someone that he felt more "comfortable" being around and doing business with? Did I get those permits approved quickly because I happen to speak Italian and reminisced about the Old Country with the inspector?

How many situations would have changed, oh so subtly for the worse? Granted, a few at Pepsi-Co would have been for the better, but perhaps only for the short term or up to a certain level...

There's overt prejudice, and then there's the layer above that where it's a matter of choice and unproveable and damn near undetectable.

Just wondering, but I think there's more to this question than the surface legalities themselves.

Q

 

[Limeoutsider]

what I dont get is how African Americans can go around speeding, blasting their music, threatening people, but when the cops come, it isnt because they were breaking the law, its JUST because theyre African American that theyre getting arrested?

 

[sincerity]

oh my god...

*shakes head*

there's no one normal browsing this forum, is there. It does make me feel very alone to have this fetish. maybe the fetish is just a phase...the thought of a merciless tickling of someone insanely ticklish/who finds it torturous, is a lot less exciting lately. (sigh)

 

[areenactor]

oh my god...

*shakes head*

there's no one normal browsing this forum, is there. It does make me feel very alone to have this fetish. maybe the fetish is just a phase...the thought of a merciless tickling of someone insanely ticklish/who finds it torturous, is a lot less exciting lately. (sigh)

i'm sorry sincerity, but i don't understand the point of your post. could you, please, elaborate?

steve

 

[MrMacphisto]

Cosby's still got it.... His rant sounds no different from a typical Chris Rock rant. This is a good thing folks, because he's keeping up with the times. Political correctness gets us nowhere, and more than just the black community needs to figure this out. Every community needs to wake up and realize we're in the same boat, so we gotta work together, but that doesn't include patronizing each other with so-called sensitive phrases. We gotta build an infrastructure to fix the ghettoes and lower corporate and governmental corruption, instead of giving endless tax cuts to the rich and corporations. Cosby's angst toward the uneducated and criminal seems fitting for these days...

One thing I gotta disagree with Celtic on is.... location. Affirmative action is pretty effective and thorough in much of the more urban areas of America. However, if you live in say, rural Alabama and Mississippi, you still have to worry about the KKK and others like them if you're black. Just keep in mind that while the programs are supposed to be consistent, our culture still has some racially based hurdles to overcome in the more rural areas of America.

 

[Knox The Hatter]

Bill Cosby could say whatever the hell he wants. He's given more money to the UNCF than anyone of us will ever SEE in our lifetimes...why the hell shouldn't he complain?

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

@ Q (if I can call you that. If not, feel free to correct me.)

I agree with most of what you said. Thats why I made mention that there is still a adversity in America, and its not just in places like Alabama and such. I refered to it as "linger" however because the problem is not as great as it was, but is still there in small portions nontheless.

@ Lime (if I may call you that. If not, also feel free to correct me.)

You make an interesting point through obviousness. Kudos.

@ MrMacphisto-

I agree that we have to work together. Thats practically common sense in a society made up of so many different peoples. The last thing we want is a race war.

As for your disagreement, I respect and acknowledge it. And I do agree with most of what you said when you put it that way. Just note that I never actually said that location was the determining factor. I personally attribute it more to lifestyle and the lack of structure in public schooling.

@ Knox The Hatter-

Agreed. As long as he has tried to be a solution to part of a problem by giving money away, and isn't just some hypocrital "Uncle Tom" as he was called by some, then he certainly has every right to voice the truths and gravity of the situations he addressed.

 

[sincerity]

Bill Cosby could say whatever the hell he wants. He's given more money to the UNCF than anyone of us will ever SEE in our lifetimes...why the hell shouldn't he complain?

So, if you give to UNCF, you can act like an ass and ruin their event?

 

[sincerity]

Chris Rock, again?

You don't seem to hear any of Chris Rock's pro-black, anti-white, anti-establishment jokes. You're clearly only hearing what you want to hear.

By the way, I don't know you, but I can make a sure bet that a white person calling you a typical ignorant white man, would anger you less than a black person saying the same thing. Then, imagine you're a minority and are the ancestor of SLAVES in this country. You'd flip. It's so easy for you to put down racial sensitivity, cuz you don't have to hear crap like what Cosby said about YOUR culture, and YOUR race, and YOUR status in this country.

Cosby's still got it.... His rant sounds no different from a typical Chris Rock rant. This is a good thing folks, because he's keeping up with the times. Political correctness gets us nowhere, and more than just the black community needs to figure this out. Every community needs to wake up and realize we're in the same boat, so we gotta work together, but that doesn't include patronizing each other with so-called sensitive phrases. We gotta build an infrastructure to fix the ghettoes and lower corporate and governmental corruption, instead of giving endless tax cuts to the rich and corporations. Cosby's angst toward the uneducated and criminal seems fitting for these days...

One thing I gotta disagree with Celtic on is.... location. Affirmative action is pretty effective and thorough in much of the more urban areas of America. However, if you live in say, rural Alabama and Mississippi, you still have to worry about the KKK and others like them if you're black. Just keep in mind that while the programs are supposed to be consistent, our culture still has some racially based hurdles to overcome in the more rural areas of America.

 

[kis123]

what I dont get is how African Americans can go around speeding, blasting their music, threatening people, but when the cops come, it isnt because they were breaking the law, its JUST because theyre African American that theyre getting arrested?

How do you know that's what attracted police attention? You watch entirely too much television if you believe every black person who gets stopped by police was actually breaking the law. My autistic son was stopped by police because he was walking down the street. No music, no car, nothing except he was a young black man walking down the street in a white neighborhood!

Why is it when African Americans get stopped by police that it's almost always in groups and multiple cars when the same does not happen with whites? Regardless if someone's breaking the law or not, the police are the supposed professionals and they should follow a reasonable protocol, not behave like just because the person is African-American it automatically means unnecessary roughness!

Are you saying that only African-americans blast music, speed in cars, and threaten people? If so, you really need to get out more often because you're sadly mistaken. Ever heard of racial profiling? Probably not since it's obvious you don't have to worry about being stopped simply because of your race.

 

[kis123]

Re: old folks home? rude? please!

my first reaction was "bill cosby for president".
why is speaking the truth to the very group that needs to hear it most wrong?
glad to see there are still some celebrities that have their heads on straight!

steve

I hope you have been listening to what has been coming out of the mouths of young white youth these days. I hear more ebonics coming from them than I have ever heard from black folks, and I am BLACK!

When we were kids, it was called "slang". We knew the terms but we were also taught how to speak in front of whites so as not to appear ignorant and to gain and keep employment. Nowadays, it's called ebonics and people think it's a second language. But never assume this problem is exclusive to the African-American community because it isn't! Now that a larger percentage of whites are using it, the language suddenly gets a name change!

I basically agree with what Cosby said because our race has lost something in translation. Our youth are consumed with materialism to the point that you cannot walk through some neighborhoods if you're dressed nicely. You will get killed over leather jackets and tennis shoes. Don't bother sending me hate mail or "nastygrams" about it because it's happened in my city more than a couple of times. We as a people do need to get more concerned about our education and our future. People fought and died for the opportunities we have now. Don't let anything hinder you from becoming the best you can be. Ebonics is not the answer.

I don't really care who gets angry either. If Cosby never gets invited to another event, he is very educated and very rich and is not losing sleep over any inflammatory commentary from the NAACP or anyone else. Maybe some of these people who are running their mouths about Cosby's comments should visit the schools and streets where it's really happening and volunteer to teach reading, writing, and phonics because it's not being taught in inner-city schools the way it's taught in the suburbs. The kids don't even have the self-esteem to realize what kind of trouble they're really in.

 

[areenactor]

if i may be so bold kis?

preach sister preach!

you are most correct! i hear ebonics from lazy ass white kids all the time. they think they are being cool, and hip for using gheto speak. of course these same numb nutz have never been out side of their lilly white suburb, except to go to another lilly white suburb!

back in the dinasour era, when i attened high school, political correctness hit a low, they offered ebonics as a substitute for regular english classes to the black sutdents. they received the same diploma, but couldn't fill out a basic job application, or thank you letter! now i blame the school, and the parents! the black students were being kids. kids are suposed to be lazy and stupid. that's what parents, and schools are for, to teach them how not to be lazy, and stupid.

i agree with some of what you said lime, but here(where i live) it's mostly hispanics, and white kids who who act like fools ,andplay the music too damn loud in their cars. it's so bad here in illinois, a law was passed prohibiting it.

steve

 

[kis123]

The problem is perpetual. Society as a whole has the tendency to feel that blacks are not able to learn and comprehend the same as whites, so the standards of education are lowered to accomodate the poor underpriveledged race of us. Unfortunately, that created a vicious cycle of undereducated graduates who couldn't function in the workplace. So instead of raising the bar and taking the time to help students come to standard, the bar was dropped even lower.

Now a couple of generations later, we have a class of people smart enough to commit some of the most heinous crimes we could ever dream up, but not smart enough to write a job application or perform the simplest of tasks. They don't have black history taught in schools anymore and black history month barely gets a bleep in the media anymore. If you don't know where you came from, you have no idea where you're going. I'm talking about empowering our kids with pride in themselves and who they are, not just what they see on BET or MTV. Those videos do not represent African-American reality.

Steve is right. Kids have no idea what goes on outside their own neighborhood. White kids go from suburb to suburb, and children of color tend to go from "hood" to "hood". The education system makes a bad situation even worse. Teachers generally do not care who makes it or not. They are somewhere between trying to make tenure and surviving the experience.

Parents have the major role in all of this mess. If you don't raise your child to have self-esteem and self-respect, you have a child that doesn't care about school, college, or their future. If you don't treat yourself well and show a good example to your children, they are going to follow your lead. If you don't make sure your child is doing homework, you'll never learn where the child is deficient in his/her learning.

I can talk about this all day, but I have some educational issues of my own to straighten out.

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

Let me also fully agree with you Kis. I meant no personal disrespect, and if you read my first post, you would see that I love black people as much as I love my own. I'm mixed myself. Half hispanic and half white, so just the very fact that I have something other than white blood flowing through my veins allows me to tolerate, accept, and appriciate people of color and diversity. ^__^

This was/is about black people however, as Cosby was pointing out. And and I said, ANYONE could fall under the catergory of "persons" he discribed, even white people.

To further illustrate a point, when I was in high school there were whites trying to be black. That really shamed me. They felt that if they acted a certain way, talked a certain way, dressed a certain way and listened to a certain type of music that it would make them the underdogs and therefore popular. Whats sad most of all is that these people were not underdogs, and through some twisted logic or need for attention, thought it would be cool to 'act black' or at least try.

These whites have just as little self-pride and self-respect as the blacks you described. These whites are simply not educated on just how great it is to be white, just as those blacks don't realize how wonderful it is to be black. Every ethnic group brings something good to the international table. But they also bring about any garbage, true or false, that comes along with them.

I think Cosby was just talking about the garbage while slapping the wrists of those people that are like that. To me it seemed to be more of a personal disgust than a judgement on his part.

 

[Knox The Hatter]

Yes, Sincerity Jez, Cosby's millions of dollars (no hyperbole) bought him the right to speak his mind on subjects that bothered him. Obviously, he didn't spend enough, huh?

 

[sincerity]

so the right to act like an ass can be bought?

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

I think as an american, Cosby would have the right to have said it whether he had money or not. But I believe its being implied that Cosby was given more stroke because of his generous donations. And whether or not that is acceptable is up to the organization which he funds. And if anyone gets shit-faced over it then it is his decision whether to be worried about it or not. Apparently he is not.

 

[Knox The Hatter]

Hey, I'm free to voice my opinions, and if I ever gave two shits as to what anyone thought I'd have left here with my tail between my legs long ago. But here I am, most happy pissing people off.

 

[kis123]

so the right to act like an ass can be bought? what the hell are you funding?

I'm trying desperately to understand your point, but I simply disagree. Cosby's rant is about people who have ample opportunities in front of them, yet are worse off than those prior to the Civil Rights Movement. He did not care whether he gets flack or not, and neither do I. It's something that needed to be said a long time ago. Our children are in major trouble and are not ready to pick up the baton of adulthood and responsibility. They are going to run the country some day, and they simply are not ready. My son's school has 1400 students. Out of over 400 seniors, only 220 of them are graduating next week. What ever happened to "no child left behind?" They are all behind and the school systems of today are not going to do anything about it.

If parents don't start getting their priorities straight, their children will NOT be prepared for the world ahead of them. It's more important to become homeowners than to have expensive designer clothing. It's more important to become educated than to work 2-3 jobs to make ends meet because your kid didn't go to college. It is better to respect yourself than to have a bunch of kids by a bunch of different men. What kind of life is that? I had my first child unmarried and it was no fun experience. I vowed not to have another child unless I had a ring on my finger and a marriage license. And I didn't either. My race has no one to blame for their problems but themselves because there are more opportunities to successful living than ever. My parents or grandparents did not have the same opportunities and were still able to live decently. They also taught us that we can rise above our circumstances even if they weren't able to. That is the message that our children should be receiving, not the crap on the video shows or in today's music. The kids are buying into the garbage. They're looking for the easy way out and not pursuing college and graduate school. Only hard work pays off, not the junk they're being sold. That's what Cosby's talking about, and I am glad he said it.

Now that we're aware of the problem, it's time to get to some solutions. How about if everyone who sent Cosby flames go into the inner cities of their states and get to work? What if teachers were more interested in educating instead of tenure and retirement? What if parents got out of the bed and off the couch long enough to invest time into their children? Explain to me why I should see kids as young as 3-4 years old on the streets after dark? That was unheard of when I was a kid, especially if you were a girl. Now, it's commonplace.

 

[leafstk]

Ever heard of racial profiling? Probably not since it's obvious you don't have to worry about being stopped simply because of your race.

Predictable, bleeding-heart nonsense. Sorry, I don't buy it. If you're a responsible adult, it isn't a problem. If you're the opposite, no matter what your race, you're gonna face the consequences. Period.