HHH vs. Secualr rap

[RottingLies]

Jolt your thoughts down here and your feelings on them both!

 

[naveltkltr1350]

Jolt your thoughts down here and your feelings on them both!

what are you talking about?

 

[RottingLies]

what are you talking about?

lol! i knew i would get a reply like this from someone. but i didn't think it would be you Jeff

HHH (Christian Rap aka Holy Hip Hop) vs. Secular rap

 

[naveltkltr1350]

Holy Hip Hop eh? cant say i ever heard that. Does Ma$e count as HHH( Mason Betha actually..not Ma$e who was the shit)

 

[HOLLYWOOD]

the hollywood brother thought the HHH symbol was a copyright trademark. I think this blue blood worked hard and is a good performer and entertainer despite what most of his critics say

 

[RottingLies]

the hollywood brother thought the HHH symbol was a copyright trademark. I think this blue blood worked hard and is a good performer and entertainer despite what most of his critics say

um ok!

 

[MayDay1]

Both Triple H's

the hollywood brother thought the HHH symbol was a copyright trademark. I think this blue blood worked hard and is a good performer and entertainer despite what most of his critics say

He got where he is by kissing HBK's butt and banging the boss's daughter. Granted five years ago his title reign was fun and he had some great feuds but now he's just holding other guys back and it's sad. Gimme Jericho anyday.

As for the HHH that pertains to the actual topic, Christian music in general is watered down pap. DC Talk is the elevater music in Hell.

 

[RottingLies]

He got where he is by kissing HBK's butt and banging the boss's daughter. Granted five years ago his title reign was fun and he had some great feuds but now he's just holding other guys back and it's sad. Gimme Jericho anyday.

As for the HHH that pertains to the actual topic, Christian music in general is watered down pap. DC Talk is the elevater music in Hell.

Not all Christian music is watered down pap (whatever the hell pap is ) That is just most people views on Christian music is that it's crap. But honestly there are some really good bands out in the Christian music genre (just ask khawkeye he listens to a few Christian bands as well i know that he has listed before).

 

[ped]

precious time lost debating...pap vs. crap. don't you have anything better to do?

This is a dime, Martini. When you break it in half you don't get two nickels, you get shit. Try and smoke it.

 

[SheDevil1]

Wow, 'holy hip hop'. What a truly sad and pathetic concept. What, do "HHH"ers claim Jesus to be a "gangsta" and flash their 24k crosses and saint christopher medallions? Please. Most "secular" rap is no better either. But then again, most "secular" rap is "holy"! Notice how all rappers thank God and Jesus whenever they get awards, you know, cuz God had something to do with "MOVE, BITCH, GET OUT THE WAY, GET OUT THE WAY!". Not to mention, they all wear the 12 inch long crosses on their chest like they doin the church a favor. Thank you for ruining God's rep, us on the 'other' side appreciate it greatly.
I don't listen to alot of normal rap, but every so often I have to. I just gotta hear music about driving around in black trucks and dumpin clips into people. It's good for the head, just like violent video games, violent movies and violent television. This is a violent society, you gotta vent some how, we don't have time for that 'holy' garbage. There's especially no room for that in hip hop. That just makes it a joke. I -KNOW- nobody (especially here) listens to that crap. You can't say you do, otherwise this website alone would inspire fear and paranoia in your barely-functioning brain. But...if you want to talk about the -BEST- rap, go get yourself some Tech N9ne. Until then, take that christian rap the hell out of here and don't let the door hit you where the 'Good Lord' split you!

 

[MistressValerie1]

I knew this thread would get heated, but I'm surprised it took this long

This is a good time for a friendly reminder that it's ok to attack music or musicians that you don't like, but it must be done in a manner that is respectful of other board members, consistent with the rules, which are now being more strictly enforced.

Thanks in advance,

 

[SheDevil1]

Hey, I attacked no members. It's just that 'holiness' hardly has a place here.

 

[MistressValerie1]

I know, SD, but I just wanted to remind everyone to be cool, in view of how fast threads about religion tend to deteriorate around here

 

[SheDevil1]

yeah...it's fine. But I'd just like to point out; I know this 'RottingLies' guy doesn't listen to HHH. I know he doesn't, mr "holy sh*t vampire hotel" lol.... He's just trying to cause problems....

 

[MistressValerie1]

Religion is usually a forum lightning rod :umm: I normally don't discuss my own religious views or argue publicly with anyone else's, a policy that has served me well for many years

 

[MayDay1]

I understand where your point, Val. My point is that a huge majority of the music in the "Christian" category is tragic on a PURELY MUSICAL level. Take away the religious overtones and you got music not even the supermarket will play over the P.A. in frozen foods. Don't believe me?

Creed.

Case closed.

 

[SheDevil1]

Even with the religious overtone it's crap. That just makes it even more of a joke, considering religion is a joke.

 

[Cbarton]

It appears obvious MayDay that you haven;t listend to the good stuff. Christian music artists use ALL genres. I have listened to everything and I feel it is like secualr artists. Some are good, some not. I would put Third Day, Micheal W. Smith, Petra, Stephen Curtis Chapman, White Heart (the early years), Degarmo and Key (from the 80's). DC Talk, Grits, and many other artists against the best that the secular realm has to offer.

I would love to hear who you seem to be throwing in the dumpster. My guess is you doing the usual "they are only doing the 'religiosu stuff' because that can't it in 'REAL MUSIC'.." BAH!!!

Oh and SD, religion is not a joke to many of us. I find it amazing in this country that any aother group get slammed and you hear "DISCRIMINATION DISCRIMINATION" everywhere. I'm supposed to be tolerant of all this other stuff around here. But I guess it must be legal to attack Christians for their faith.

So, do you non-believers even celebrate tomorrow or is that too much of a joke for you?

 

[MayDay1]

I'm not saying Christian music isn't real music. It is real music......real BAD!!

Thank you, thank you! Don't forget to tip your waitress!

Seriously though, I've heard a majority of the groups you listed. Boring, preachy, sugar coated treakle. The music is intentionally over produced and lacking in....for lack of a better word....umph that a lot of other non Christian bands have in spades. Don't believe me?

Play DC Talk back to back with Public Enemy and tell me who's got the goods.

Petra? You know your band is a joke when you're consided a second rate Stryper.

Michael W. Smith? Does the W stand for "who"?

Third Day? Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz............

Jars of Clay? Whoops! They're 15 minutes were up a long time ago. Forget that last one.

My point is that every Christian musician I've heard has been less that average on a purely musical level. It seems to me like there's a concious effort in the whole scene to make the songs as harmless as a nerf bat, and that's a shame.

 

[naveltkltr1350]

does creed, altar bridge and kutless count for that christian music stuff..cause ive listened to all them..yeah..i listened to them..but understood nothing about it..as i dont get into religion all that much.

 

[SheDevil1]

It appears obvious MayDay that you haven;t listend to the good stuff. Christian music artists use ALL genres. I have listened to everything and I feel it is like secualr artists. Some are good, some not. I would put Third Day, Micheal W. Smith, Petra, Stephen Curtis Chapman, White Heart (the early years), Degarmo and Key (from the 80's). DC Talk, Grits, and many other artists against the best that the secular realm has to offer.

I would love to hear who you seem to be throwing in the dumpster. My guess is you doing the usual "they are only doing the 'religiosu stuff' because that can't it in 'REAL MUSIC'.." BAH!!!

Oh and SD, religion is not a joke to many of us. I find it amazing in this country that any aother group get slammed and you hear "DISCRIMINATION DISCRIMINATION" everywhere. I'm supposed to be tolerant of all this other stuff around here. But I guess it must be legal to attack Christians for their faith.

So, do you non-believers even celebrate tomorrow or is that too much of a joke for you?

Religion may not be a joke to you because you weren't fortunate enough to escape from it. I however, was fortunate enough to get away from Catholicism, and I thank MYSELF everyday for it. And...yes, I do celebrate christmas, seeing as how Christmas isn't a religious holiday lol.

 

[Cbarton]

I'm not saying Christian music isn't real music. It is real music......real BAD!!

Thank you, thank you! Don't forget to tip your waitress!

Seriously though, I've heard a majority of the groups you listed. Boring, preachy, sugar coated treakle. The music is intentionally over produced and lacking in....for lack of a better word....umph that a lot of other non Christian bands have in spades. Don't believe me?

Actually I don't. I guess I prefere my lyrics to be more than sexual inuendo and profanity every third lyric. I detect you are so turned off by the message that you want to throw them all in the dumpster for that reason alone. When I listen to them, many of the songs and lyrics cut like a knife. Many uplift. Many songs are meant for praise and worship. You seem to have forgotten that Christian music serves mutiple purposes. They are there to entertain, glorify God, minister to others, and reach out to others.

Petra? You know your band is a joke when you're consided a second rate Stryper..

A second rate Stryper? You make me laugh! You can't be serious!!!! Petra has been around for 20 years, and was one of the first Christian 'rock and roll' bands to be successful and one of the most controversinal when they started. Greg X. Volz (the orginal lead singer...oh, and the X stands for Xaiver to spare you another rotten initial joke) had a 5 octave range! They broke the ground for many of the groups out there today. The "Never Say Die" album even saved me from suicide. Besides, Stryper was "white metal", a totally different genre than Petra. That's like comparing Journey to AC/DC!

Michael W. Smith? Does the W stand for "who"?

It happens to stand for "Whitaker" which is his middle name.

Third Day? Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz............

Jars of Clay? Whoops! They're 15 minutes were up a long time ago. Forget that last one.

My point is that every Christian musician I've heard has been less that average on a purely musical level. It seems to me like there's a concious effort in the whole scene to make the songs as harmless as a nerf bat, and that's a shame.

And I could say the very same thing about many secular artists out there as well. All "Made for MTV" as we used to say when I was in college. That is why I rarely listen to secular radio anymore. They all sound the same, preformulated studio stuff.

I suppose you'd say Phil Keaggy is just 'an average guitar player' as well, huh? And Stephen Curtis Chapman a 'average singer/songwriter'? Or Dino Karstinakas an 'average pianist'? I assure you, they can hold their own with anyone else out there. I have seen them in action.


I have heard bad Chrsitain performers. I have heard bad secular performers. But to lump ALL CHRISTIAN ARTISTS as bad musicians is ludicrous at best, idiotic at worst. If you don't like them, that's fine. But don't insult me by calling them no-talent hacks. By doing that, you show me you really know nothing about music, performance, and songwriting at all....but then again. I've only been singing, listening, and following music for the nearly 31 years, what do I know...

 

[Cbarton]

... seeing as how Christmas isn't a religious holiday lol.

The sad part is that the vast majority fail to celebrate it for what it really is. It is one subjec that we (unfortuately) are closer to agreement that disagreement

 

[MayDay1]

Let's take these one at a time, shall we?

Hawkeye sez: "I guess I prefere my lyrics to be more than sexual inuendo and profanity every third lyric."

MayDay sez: At what point did I say that good music is all raunch and obscenities? You show me where I said that and I'll cop to it. Right now, though, you're only assuming that's what I listen to. Stop putting words in my mouth.

Hawkeye sez: "A second rate Stryper? You make me laugh! You can't be serious!!!! Petra has been around for 20 years, and was one of the first Christian 'rock and roll' bands to be successful and one of the most controversinal when they started. Greg X. Volz (the orginal lead singer...oh, and the X stands for Xaiver to spare you another rotten initial joke) had a 5 octave range! They broke the ground for many of the groups out there today. The "Never Say Die" album even saved me from suicide. Besides, Stryper was "white metal", a totally different genre than Petra. That's like comparing Journey to AC/DC!"

MayDay sez: So they were great musicians. Big whoop. Dave Matthews disease. Talented musicains, bad music. It's not what you got, it's what you do with it. Also, longetivity is by no means a marker for success. I know some guys who've been in a band for 20 years as well. Theyr'se still playing in bars, too. And no kidding Stryper is "white metal"! Those guys make Lawrence Welk look like James Brown!

Hawkeye sez: "I could say the very same thing about many secular artists out there as well. All "Made for MTV" as we used to say when I was in college. That is why I rarely listen to secular radio anymore. They all sound the same, preformulated studio stuff."

MayDay sez: I agree. I'm not defending those bands. The bands on the radio nowadays are just as guilty as the religious pop crowd.

Hawkeye sez: "I suppose you'd say Phil Keaggy is just 'an average guitar player' as well, huh?"

MayDay sez: Didn't Jimi Hendrix say he was an influence on the Tonight Show as a joke?

Hawkeye sez: "If you don't like them, that's fine. But don't insult me by calling them no-talent hacks. By doing that, you show me you really know nothing about music, performance, and songwriting at all....but then again. I've only been singing, listening, and following music for the nearly 31 years, what do I know..."

MayDay sez: Just because you've been following music for 31 years does not make you an expert by any means. Do you have a PHD to show for it? No? Then that just makes you a music fan, no more no less. Just like me. I've been following music for quite some time myself (I have yet to hit 30 but we allready established that age means nothing in this department). What I'm telling you is that the music from the Jesus crowd is ironicly uninspired.

Riddle me this. If these guys are so good, then why does a decade old demo of Kurt Cobain playing an early version of "Opinion" on an acoustic guitar in his bedroom kick the living snot out of any Christian album on the shelf?

 

[Cbarton]

It comes down to taste. We obviously differ. Talent can often be in the eye of the beholder. I may not have a PhD, but you yourself don't claim to have one either. I've just been around since "Contemporary Christian music" was in it's infancy, and people were upset at times beacuse people were singing 'that Bill Gaither stuff' in church. Oh the horrors! Now, some churches. like mine, will have the latest P&W songs in our worpship time weeks after it is released on the radio

Uninspired? I think the difference is in Who or what is inspiring. I find inspiration in the music of 'secular' and 'religious' artists. Please define "inspiration' from your point of view, for it seems to be lightyears from what I read in the good old Merriam-Webster.

May I ask for reference, which artists DO inspire you? Give me some reference so I know where you are coming from...

I was not trying to put words in your mouth. The secular stuff I have been forced to listen to at work by others tends to be as I described. I assumed (correctly or incorrectly) that you were referring to the garbage being spewed out on radio right now. If I am wrong, I offer an apology on that.

The quote I was told by those in the know was during an interview, some asked Jimi Hendrix how it felt to be the greatest guitarist in the world. His answer: "I don't know, you'd have to ask Phil Keaggy' Most artists take it that he was complimenting Phil Keaggy (who was unsaved at the time. And old 'Nine Fingers' is just as good now, IMHO)

Sidenote: Phil Keaggy played and sang at the wedding of Paul McCartney's sister, who is a Christian. During a live interview on a Nashville station I listened to 10 years back, he told how Paul complimented on his music and they even jammed together during the reception.

I never listened to Cobain or the rest of his ilk. When 'alternative rock' came out, it reminded me of the 'progressive rock' stuff off the University of Iowa student-run station. It sounded unprofessional and poorly done. Cobain and the rest sounded the same to me. Now to you or others, the may be the best thing to happen to music since the treble clef. Me, I like good vocals, tight harmony, well written lyrics, and intruments that have musical quality and don't come out overbearing. I know others that just want it loud. That's why I never listend to Stryper or the Rez band, even though they were Christian artists. Just not my style. Obviously, Christian artists aren't your style. It doesn't mean they are poor musicians.

In the 80's, Eddie DeGarmo and Dana Key could hold their own with any secular rock band of that decade. Dana's guitar solo's were musically sound, and the groups had great vocals (plus the coolest bass player you ever saw). Petra not only has had good musicians but they HAVE done something with it. You just seem too biased to see or hear it. One of my fondest memories is being at their concert during "The Pledge" tour. I was there, getting into the music and two seats down the row for me was a guy maybe 5 years younger than me. He was the total punk rocker look. We were both there praising God and enjoying the music. The punk rocker and Mr. Straight-Laced. The anacronism was priceless in my mind. We may not have agreed on anything else, but we both knew we were listening to some of the best as they sand "Let The Whole World See."

Example: I am not a Beatles fan. Never have been, never will. I fail to see what the 'big deal' was about them. However, I still recognize the skills of Paul McCartney and George Harrison (never liked anything about John Lennon, but that's beside the point). I don't go around slamming them. I just move on and listen to what I like. Do I call them no talent hacks? No. I just let the Beatle-maniacs enjoy the latest re-re-re-re-release of their songs and listen to what I want. No one is (I assume) forcing you to listen, and you have to really search hard to find christian stations in most areas.

I like what I like, you like what you like. Just like on here: some are 'lers, some are 'lees. Some like feet exclusively, some like upper body, some just want a body!
You aren't forced to read EVERY POST just because you log on. You read what you want and bypass the rest. Do I denegrate every post I read that I don't like? No, I respond to those I want to, pass others off as "why bother", or PM them direct.

By your own defininition, we are both music fans, no more, no less. In my nearly 42 years on this planet, I have seem vast shifts in musical styles, artists, etc. Some I liked, some I thought should have been (as Johnny Carson used to say about the only movie he was in) 'converted directly to flammable nitrate stock.' In the next 42 years, should the Lord allow us to live that long, we will see even more. And I bet we and others will debate whether that stuff is as good as the stuff back in the old days back in the 1990's and 2000's.

All that said, I stood up in opposition to your post for one main reason: Contempeory Christian music kept me alive in college, literally. Petra's "Never Say Day" and The Imperials "One More Song For You" kept me from slitting my wrists because of the depression I was in. Don't tell me that this music lacks inpiration or musical quality.

When people ask me what I listen to, I tell them "everything but punk and junk..." I still stand by that statement. You may disagree, but again, don't insult people's intelligence...