How much do you think it cost Paradise Vision to make "The Contest"

[The Internet]

I'm out the door, I have no idea why this just popped into my head, haven't seen it for YEARS.

But remember Paradise Vision had two videos that were like beauty pageants? Miss Ticklish USA and, before that one, The Contest? Both were over an hour long and had something like 20 models a piece, all in the same place, at the same time. (This is where the great Viviana was first seen, incidentally).

Any producers want to venture a general guess how much a video shoot like that would cost? It's just a total question borne out of fleeting curiosity, nothing more.

Ironically, the thing I most remember about The Contest is not the contest itself, but the amazing Lily "Road Rage" scene that was inserted in right before they announced the winner. I've only seen that scene since without synchronized sound; one of these days I have to digitize my copy which I'm still clinging onto. What a fool! lol.

Anyways.....those two videos must have cost a small fortune. I did speak to Gabrielle on the phone once for over three hours, one of the great conversations of my life. I don't know if she was telling the truth, but she was telling me some of the Paradise Vision models at that time (during the early days) were simply friends of hers that did it for free. I think she told me Lily was one such model, I could be wrong. It might have been Starr. It was one of those two that she mentioned. I ended up sending her a list of plot ideas....she ended up making every single one of them!

There's a great video of the same kind, a ticklish model pageant, that was done in Japan a few years ago.

Just curious what those in the know might estimate.....

 

[TMF Jeff]

I remember that that video existed but I don't remember enough about it to venture a guess about the cost.

Did they have the models hanging around while they weren't shooting them being tickled? I vaguely remember seeing them all in a group shot, or something like that? And that's what would cause the cost to skyrocket, paying girls to stand around.

I had to do that when I was filmed for Playboy TV, and it was a brutal magnifier of the cost.

 

[The Internet]

I remember that that video existed but I don't remember enough about it to venture a guess about the cost.

Did they have the models hanging around while they weren't shooting them being tickled? I vaguely remember seeing them all in a group shot, or something like that? And that's what would cause the cost to skyrocket, paying girls to stand around.

I had to do that when I was filmed for Playboy TV, and it was a brutal magnifier of the cost.

Yes! They were all hanging around, outside what looked to be a mansion (where some of their other videos were shot, such as "The Millionaire"), and applauded after every model was tickled. The models themselves were the audience! The model would be introduced, do a little pre-interview in front of everybody, get tickled, and the audience would applaud, the camera panning from the model to the audience and judges. So yeah, it must have been real expensive! Assuming all the models were paid. I can't imagine it was a real contest! Many of the models ended up appearing in later videos, but by their demeanor in "The Contest", that seemed to be their first shoot.

I think that one sold for $75, and I seem to remember everybody having it.

I remember that Playboy TV shoot! They had you shooting a camera that wasn't plugged in or something, if I remember correctly! I still can't believe you appeared on that; you were brave! I mean, NOBODY knew what tickle fetish was back then, pretty much. Did you have to deal with any awkward embarrassment with friends or family?

I wonder if the guy who played "The Millionaire" was really a millionaire and just funded his fetish. Of course, we'll never know. I think Gabrielle told me that it was a real contest but.....I'm not sure I believe that. (I was so gullible back then that I think I actually believed that the "Millionaire" really married that model! Ha!)

Thanks for the response!

 

[S1]

Might have been expensive with all the girls that seemed to be in the audience but man what a great video. In my opinion, it's prob the top tickling vid of all time.

 

[Sensualswitch10]

I've only seen a little of Miss Ticklish USA, but if I could find it or The Contest, I'd love to buy them!

 

[TMF Jeff]

They might have gimmicked it somehow - In the early days when that was made, "fetish model" was barely a thing. There was a small industry in LA and Vegas, but it was NOTHING like what we have now, where every city has a home based fetish industry, more or less.

So they may have done something unorthodox that wouldn't really fly today, like promise a sliding scale of prizes for the "winners," and made it something like a reality show as a way to get the girls to hang around past their time in front of the camera.

Another thing about those days is that people thought there was big money in tickling videos. So they may have spent a lot of money, presuming that they would make it back when the video sold thousands of copies. I remember a guy who made tickling videos being on Howard Stern once and Stern asked him how many copies a tickling video could possibly sell, and he said "Tens of thousands." I've never laughed so hard in my life.

But people used to think that was possible, so they may have let their production partner (the person with the mansion) spend more than was practical.

But if they sold it for $75, it's possible that even if they spent a ton of money they made a profit.

I don't think they ever repeated that formula though, so it can't have been THAT profitable or obviously they'd have kept doing it.

...

As fort the Playboy shoot, that was high pressure but in restrospect I'm glad I did it, for the experience and the story. And the fun of course, but that kind of fun wasn't hard to come by for me in those days

But it was SUPER expensive, like around $2500 for a four hour shoot. And that was just four models. I never made any money from that because it was for Playboy, not me. But even if I had sold it, it probably would have just turned a profit like literally yesterday.

I never had a problem with being public about this - for whatever reason, it just didn't matter to me. I don't get into conversations with my family about this stuff, but they knew in general terms what I was doing. And if they cared, they never said so.

 

[The Internet]

Oh my god, Jeff, fascinating! You really gave a glimpse into the early days of the industry!

Yeah, they did make another one, but if I remember correctly, it was a little smaller, and they did smaller groups of models; it was held inside, and there wasn't an audience, so they definitely made adjustments.

I thought it was a fun idea, especially for the time, really tantalizing, from a 'ler perspective anyways. But I actually didn't find the results particularly good - filming outside made the laughter kind of float away (I dont think the camera/microphone was particularly close to the model), it was almost exhausting to get through! But fascinating. I think the Japanese one that was made a few years ago is the best of that ilk.

I always suspected what you mused about: that they actually had a sliding scale, or even advertised it as a real contest or something. i have no idea why this suddenly popped into my head but I'm happy I asked.

Anyways, that was a real fascinating read, thanks for the taking the time to share that all with us!

PS: I do remember that guy who said "tens of thousands"! I was, like....there's THAT many of people like me? Not to keep this thread going forever, but out of curiosity, back in those early days (or "middle days"), how many copies would you sell of a video? Fewer than a hundred? Fewer than fifty? More than a thousand? I've always wondered.

I had 'em all! Right from Mary & Farrah. Then a New York TMF'er did a purge of his collection when he got married, and he showed up at my apartment with a gigantic box of HIS tapes.....and I got them all again. lol.

 

[TMF Jeff]

A popular video would sell a hundred copies in its first month. An unpopular one might only sell four or five in that time. Or none if it was a real clunker. So the ones that hit the right mark basically carry the burden of supporting the entire endeavor. I think if I was doing it over again, there are some videos that I wouldn't have even bothered to release, because I knew they weren't going to be liked. But there's this feeling of having spent all the money to create it, and you want as much revenue as possible coming in, so you just sort of throw everything at the wall and hope some of it sticks.

You hope that over the course of their lifetime, even the unpopular ones will eventually pay for themselves, but as an ongoing, day-to-day effort, the popular videos have do all the heavy lifting. Those might eventually sell a thousand copies over the course of five years or so.

If I'd been a more together person I could have probably turned it into something pretty big, but I'm always in my own way it seems. Everywhere I go, there I am again complicating things that should be simple.

 

[The Internet]

I relate to being "in my own way" and "complicating things", most definitely.

Fascinating info, this is exactly the kind of stuff I've wondered about for years and years. Although there's almost zero chance I'd ever do it, or at this point even be able to do it, but if I was ever to make my own clips company, I guess I would not release the duds. I've always wondered about that. Yeah, you hope that they will pay for themselves. Very interesting. The duds though can really bring down a company's reputation, and then you get nervous taking a gamble on the next release, so i think I would agree with you, after reading your post.

Every company has it's duds, and some dud companies sometimes get lucky with a great clip.

What must suck is when you KNOW you have a good clip, and no one buys it, right? I know that happens, I've heard many producers say that. And then sometimes clips (or videos) sell that you didn't think were going to be such a "hit", I've heard that a lot as well.

You know what one of my favorite clips of yours is? The one where Ryan tickles his girlfriend Natalie, who's lying about dancing with the guys the night before. SUPER hot. That video, and that model, was one of the direct inspirations for a story I just wrote and posted last week, "The Cheat". I paid tribute to it by including her immortal, sizzling hot words: "We were just dancing." lol. That's a premise I wish more companies would use; the only other one I can think of with that scenario is a fantastic Taryn clip. There's an Addie one too, that's ok. That Natalie model was sooooo adorable, and had a fantastic laugh.

Man, am I happy I made this thread!

 

[tk86]

But remember Paradise Vision had two videos that were like beauty pageants? Miss Ticklish USA and, before that one, The Contest? Both were over an hour long and had something like 20 models a piece, all in the same place, at the same time. (This is where the great Viviana was first seen, incidentally).

I recall that the “winner” was the subject of controversy. Everyone thought it should have been Viviana, who didn’t even make the final found or so. The story went that Viviana couldn’t take any more and dropped out so someone else had to be chosen.

 

[mike34]

I have never seen the contest....but, miss ticklish usa….oh yeah....my fav...the girl with the short dark hair, in a jean skirt with black nylon's.....she was awesome....you could see the agony in her face at some times....and laughing other's....yummy

 

[S1]

I think the reason that The Contest seemed to work so well was the number and quality of the models (many of the TP favorites are in there) + it was a long vid...if I remember correctly there was at least a few mins of tickling per contestant. In those days that seemed like a really good value to get in one video.

 

[Oddjob0226]

I’ve wondered if Renee recruited from attendees from the San Diego Comic Con. They were both in SD at the time (I assume she still is?) and I would swear that I saw her in a video at the costume contest finals/awards one year.

IF my eyes were correct, I’ve pondered whether or not she hired models/cosplayers in some of those “unorthodox & would not fly” situations where the Internet & fetish material was still fairly new, which is how she was able to get so many models at a (?) decent (?) price.