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I just realised this man could have been president.

Mephistopheles

1st Level Yellow Feather
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May 26, 2004
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And I also realised we surely missed out on a lot of laughs when Obama became president instead of McCain.

Especially President Putin of Germany cracked me up :D
 
Yes, I know.
I voted for him.

He stumbles over words, messes up some things ... pretty much like every NORMAL human being.

I'd much rather have him then who we have now.
 
I fear for the future of America when I meet people my age that wish McCain had won.
 
I fear for the future of America when I meet people my age that wish McCain had won.

Hold that thought for 3 plus more years.....your view might change..Mina already has. i took a chance that Obama really would be different than the rest of his party and was proven wrong...so be it.....

Doubtful he will see a second term...
 
Hold that thought for 3 plus more years.....your view might change..Mina already has. i took a chance that Obama really would be different than the rest of his party and was proven wrong...so be it.....

Doubtful he will see a second term...

I agree.
Obama is making a full of himself. I do not regret voting for McCain. Ever.
 
McCain and his party's answer to the economic problem (which I don't even think McCain was aware of as he hardly mentioned it in debates or speeches, has more houses than he can keep track of, and so on) was a bill that would be four times as much money as Obama's - 3.1 trillion dollars over the next ten years. Mostly made up of tax cuts.

Now that is fucking ridiculous. The only reason to be a republican is if you are one of the rich, greedy bastards that got us into this mess in the first place. And honestly, I don't think any of those people are frequenting this forum.

Personally, I'm paying off loans and tuition for the 2 years I went and I'll be paying that shit off for over the next ten years. I'd love to go back, but that's not an option right now and probably won't be for a while.

I'm on food stamps, my father is on disability, and I will apply and take advantage of any government programs I qualify for because I am a working class citizen. Probably below working class. And while it's tough, I've learned a lot in my experience and I'm damn proud of it. I'd rather be independent and mature when I'm ready to be on my own, than completely clueless and calling my mom about how to do laundry and shit.

So when I see privileged kids my age voting republican, wasting their parents money on travel, going to art school for a year and then quitting, and believing that they're "living life" because they're "young"? Well, it kind of sickens me.

If you're so interested in seeing the world and living life, maybe you should make yourself aware of the country you actually live in first. For one, you should realize the right to vote is a privilege not to be wasted on a decision that you have not educated yourself on.

"I voted for McCain because my parents said so."

or

"I voted for McCain because everyone else is voting for Obama and I want to be different."

Are not reasons to vote for a candidate. In fact, you should probably have your right to vote revoked.

I have had a job since two weeks before I turned 16. I have been paying taxes arguably since then, but filing taxes since I was 19. I make damn sure before I cast my ballot that I am aware of the candidates, their backgrounds, their issues, their faults before I make my decision. I would hope others would do the same, but as young people are wont to do, they take it lightly.
 
It seems rather strange to me that people think Obama is making a fool of himself already when his predecessor brought foolhardiness to a new level.

Then again, we are a country that apparently has more creationists than people who believe in global warming....
 
America is fucked up and will be that way for a while, not only in terms of government and economy, but in terms of the way a good portion of the citizens think.
 
America is fucked up and will be that way for a while, not only in terms of government and economy, but in terms of the way a good portion of the citizens think.

Admittedly, one of our saving graces as a country is the fact that we have a strong sense of individualism.

We definitely protect our freedom of speech a lot better than much of Europe, for example.

Unfortunately, what we lack is a sense of community, and our education systems generally suck compared to much of Canada, Western Europe, and Australia. I suppose the education part would explain some of the.... unusual characteristics of some of our people.
 
Whats even funnier...is that people are so blinded by Obama, they do not see that more than half of what he has and is still doing is a continuation of Bushes policies. And in at least 3 cases, he has done things Bush would not have (nice land, good land, environmentally protected land that BUSH set aside....along comes Obama...not so fast land, we need you for clean coal...NO MORE protections.)
Of course you add in all the attacks Obama has approved that has killed children and civilians, now not releasing photos (for the same reason Bush gave) and of course not extending the assault weapons ban......
GEE NO WONDER EVERYONE LOVES OBAMA LIKE I DO!!

Funny how people were hoping for a "new" direction, and we really have the same direction, just with a new face.

NOW THAT IS FUNNY!!!

Rob
 
Ha, probably. There are other issues that shouldn't even really be issues anymore such as race and gender issues. It's surprising in this day and age that problems like that are still so prevalent. But we're a relatively young country in comparison to others, so maybe we have some "growing up" to do?
 
Whats even funnier...is that people are so blinded by Obama, they do not see that more than half of what he has and is still doing is a continuation of Bushes policies. And in at least 3 cases, he has done things Bush would not have (nice land, good land, environmentally protected land that BUSH set aside....along comes Obama...not so fast land, we need you for clean coal...NO MORE protections.)
Of course you add in all the attacks Obama has approved that has killed children and civilians, now not releasing photos (for the same reason Bush gave) and of course not extending the assault weapons ban......
GEE NO WONDER EVERYONE LOVES OBAMA LIKE I DO!!

Funny how people were hoping for a "new" direction, and we really have the same direction, just with a new face.

NOW THAT IS FUNNY!!!

Rob

To a degree, this is true.

Generally speaking, what matters most in a president is the ability to speak well and invoke charisma. This explains why Reagan was so popular. Some of his policies have proven to be rather screwy, but at least during his time in office, he was well-liked.

Obama may end up somewhat the same. The questions are whether or not he will maintain his popularity and whether or not his policies will be mostly effective.
 
Ha, probably. There are other issues that shouldn't even really be issues anymore such as race and gender issues. It's surprising in this day and age that problems like that are still so prevalent. But we're a relatively young country in comparison to others, so maybe we have some "growing up" to do?

Perhaps... The irony of America is that our country is young, but our government is old.

Most other major First World countries have gone through major structural changes in their governments over the last century, but our own government has remained nearly the same in structure as it began (post-Articles of Confederation).
 
Generally speaking, what matters most in a president is the ability to speak well and invoke charisma. This explains why Reagan was so popular. Some of his policies have proven to be rather screwy, but at least during his time in office, he was well-liked.

Amen Mac. Amen. When the Obamaities pull their collective heads out of the clouds and join reality, they will find...much to their chagrin...that Obama is not much different from Bush...the person they despised more than anyone. Which is to me the biggest joke on everyone.

And I and other moderates, centrists, Independents, libertarians, are laughing our heads off, enjoying the show.

Conservatives and Liberals are soo silly. Arguing over things they really agree on, they just hate the people saying them.

Rob
 
Amen Mac. Amen. When the Obamaities pull their collective heads out of the clouds and join reality, they will find...much to their chagrin...that Obama is not much different from Bush...the person they despised more than anyone. Which is to me the biggest joke on everyone.

And I and other moderates, centrists, Independents, libertarians, are laughing our heads off, enjoying the show.

Conservatives and Liberals are soo silly. Arguing over things they really agree on, they just hate the people saying them.

Rob

I'm sorry, but these moderates, centrists, independents, libertarians, and the like are laughing their heads off but present nothing to the table. They are the ultimate in arm chair quarterbacks, so positing this belief set is laughable at best.

Also, explain to me exactly what exactly liberals and democrats are agreeing with. Is this just an empty statement? Because I believe accountability is quite important.
 
What do we need to bring to the table? I am merely pointing out the obvious. Most of our ideals are a mish-mash of collective ideas already within the parties, but we don't feel a need to bash one side indiscriminately. We equally have bad feelings on both ends of the political spectrum. We cant stand the far right and far left. And we love what Obama is doing. Obama is quickly becoming a centrist right before our eyes, and we love it.

Also I think you meant, what are conservatives and liberals agreeing on. If you look at things real close...both parties want the same thing but just can not get over each others hate for one another to really work together. We all want a inclusive nation, filled with people working to make this nation more productive and that "beacon on a hill" stuff.

If the squabbling would ever stop and people would work with each other rather than against each other, we may finally get on that track.

Rob
 
And about Bush being a frick'n environmentalist and shit:

January 2001 - Gale Norton appointed Secretary of the Interior, formerly a senior attorney for the Mountain States Legal Foundation, a group funded by several leading mining, logging, and oil companies. This pattern of cronyism is repeated throughout the Bush presidency.

March 2001 - Bush makes his first attempt to roll back the “Roadless Rule” passed by President Clinton. This rollback would open up 58 million acres of national forest to logging, roadbuilding, and coal, oil and gas leasing. CO2 emissions not covered. Arsenic suspended in water.

May 2001 - Cheney's Energy Plan calling for the expediting of drilling on public lands, including the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge and the western Arctic.

September 2001 - EPA downplays 9/11 Pollution

December 2001 - EPA reverses on rat poison

February 2002 - Clear Skies Plan: The Bush administration proposes its Clear Skies plan for power plants. The plan would increase coal use by 79 million tons by 2020 and weaken the Clean Air Act.

May 2002 - Nukes around Yucca Mountain

June 2002 - Bush Speaks about Global Warming - In a public speech, President Bush denigrates a report by his own administration on global warming, saying it was “put out by the bureaucracy.”

September 2002 - EPA omits global warming

October 2002 - EPA halts toxic waste cleanup

November 2002 - Bush allows oil drilling in Padre National Park, home to 11 endangered species and host to 800,000 tourists annually.

January 2003 - Bush allows more logging

April 2003 - Norton cuts a deal in Utah - Secretary of the Interior Gale Norton cuts a deal with the state of Utah to allow oil and gas drilling in millions of acres of wilderness.

May 2003 - EPA chief resigns

September 2003 - Ban on PCB's lifted - The EPA lifts a 25-year ban on the sale of land contaminated with PCBs, a chemical linked to neurological problems and cancer in humans, thereby opening more than 1,000 toxic sites to “economic redevelopment.”

October 2003 - Clean Air Act Weakened, Roadless Rule Exempted - The Bush administration exempts Alaska’s Tongass rainforest from the landmark “Roadless Rule” that protects national forests from development.

May 2004 - The EPA’s Air Office declares formaldehyde to be one ten-thousandth as toxic as the previous assessments.

October 2004 - James Hansen, NASA’s top climate expert, criticizes the Bush administration for altering news releases, revising government reports and rejecting scientific results to keep the public in the dark about the dangers of global warming.

December 2004 - EPA allows more sewage

February 2005 - The U.S. delegation to the Governing Council of the United Nations Environmental Program opposes legally binding global action to combat mercury pollution, favoring only voluntary measures. The United States is one of only a handful of countries to take this position.

March 2005 - The New York Times finds more than 200 instances in which television stations aired videos by the EPA as actual news.

July 2005 - Sonar threatens whales

August 2005 - BLM weakens policy on drilling

October 2005 - Katrina unleashes toxins

February 2006 - Top NASA climate expert James Hansen goes public with charges that the administration tried to prevent him from publicly discussing the risks of global warming.

March 2006 - EPA weakens health standards, Secretary of the Interior Norton resigns. Within a year she takes a job as a general counsel for Shell Oil’s U.S. exploration and production operations.

December 2006 - EPA weakens reporting

January 2007 - Bush issues drilling permits

February 2007 - FEMA and the Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease Registry covers up the health threat posed by formaldehyde in trailers provided to Gulf Coast residents displaced by Hurricane Katrina.

March 2007 - President Bush takes grizzly bears off the endangered species list, opening the door for the loss of bear habitat and increasing the potential for conflicts between bears and humans.

April 2007 - Supreme Court reverses CO2 rule

October 2007 - Bush censors CDC

December 2007 - At the U.N. Climate Change meetings in Bali, Indonesia, President Bush refuses to accept mandatory caps on emissions and tries to block an international agreement to curb global warming, EPA blocks vehicle standards

January 2008 - Wolves fall off endangered species list, Bush ignores polar bears

May 2009 - More oil exploration

June 2008 - PCB's imported from Mexico, White House ignores EPA

July 2008 - No regulation of Co2

September 2008 - Bush proposes to change Endangered Species Association

October 2008 - EPA doesn't ban pesticide

November 2008 - Supreme Court limits protection of whales

December 2008 - Bush administration begins leasing public land to oil and gas companies near some of America's most precious natural treasuring in Utah. More than 100,000 acres are made available, including near Arches and Canyonlands National Parks, Dinosaur National Monument, and Nine Mile Canyon, EPA administrator declares no regulation for Carbon Dioxide
 
I never said Bush was an environmentalist. Just pointing out (and that long list helped a lot) that if Bush did something unpopular with a certain group it was HIGHLIGHTED and PROOF of how bad he was. But if Obama does it, nary a peep. Not a whisper. Not even from those same groups or people that hammered ol' Bushie.

What did Louie Armstrong sing....oh yeah, "What a wonderful world............"

Rob
 
Yeah, Bush really didn't give a damn about the environment. Then again, it's hard to find many powerful governments that do.

Some of the smaller European governments seem to care more about the environment (like Norway), but rulers of large economies do tend to cave more to business interests.

Another problem though, is that sometimes environmentalists focus on very impractical things.

For example, it's rather ludicrous that some environmentalists fight nuclear power so vehemently. We'd have much cleaner air across America if we had moved away from coal plants back in the 80s. If we had developed a nuclear infrastructure similar to Canada's (but on a much larger scale), we'd be much cleaner in general.
 
What do we need to bring to the table? I am merely pointing out the obvious. Most of our ideals are a mish-mash of collective ideas already within the parties, but we don't feel a need to bash one side indiscriminately. We equally have bad feelings on both ends of the political spectrum. We cant stand the far right and far left. And we love what Obama is doing. Obama is quickly becoming a centrist right before our eyes, and we love it.

You are equating Obama to Bush, and in doing so are claiming a movement towards the center? That's what I do not understand. There are elements which are kept from the previous presidency, but let's not sit here and call them mirror similarities.

Also I think you meant, what are conservatives and liberals agreeing on. If you look at things real close...both parties want the same thing but just can not get over each others hate for one another to really work together. We all want a inclusive nation, filled with people working to make this nation more productive and that "beacon on a hill" stuff.

But those are the byproducts of an end result which has two very divergent paths. While it makes sense to adapt in certain situations, I would hasten to guess that the manner of these ideological stratums would be very different than the other. How they get they in the mind of an ideologue is of little consequence because to them, their absolutist point of view renders all the middle ground into semantics.

Then again, I would also argue that not everyone of these people wishes for a cohesive unity.

If the squabbling would ever stop and people would work with each other rather than against each other, we may finally get on that track.

Rob

That would indicate we were ever really on track, which I doubt we have been since the Revolution. People don't want to work together. They rather get into pissing matches. And if they win the pissing match, they laugh. And if they are losing, they throw abstract bullshit in the way.

But even so, centrist folk laughing only places them in one of those categories they apparently despise.
 
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