Excellent replies, gentlemen. On to the discussion of them.
Krokus, my deepest and humblest sympathies to you, brother. I know of few things as tragic as what you're experiencing. Consider the harmful stuff forgiven, sir. Hope you heal well, man.
Hope it's cool wit' you t'still discuss this. Do feel it's okay t'just say you ain't into it. I've no desire to poke at painful things with ya. Just wanna talk this one out.
Krokus said, "I still do not think that being gay is socially acceptable"
Do ya mean you don't agree with it's acceptability. It IS acceptable in many parts of the country. Clearly, I live in California. There are gay communities in every state, to my knowledge. Some don't accept homosexuals. Some do. I *think* you mean that you disagree with it's acceptance.
Remember that we're a deviancy too, sir. Is it cool with you that we be cast outside society, and have to hide our interest? It's not harming anyone, and so long as we play legally, it's as just as anything else. Since it's been established that homosexuals are of the same 2 genders, either men with other men, or women with other women, it's clear that the only sexual possibilities are things that exist with the hetrosexual communties. Yes, there's the whole anal sex thing, and that squicks many, but you're not going to hear many women argue that what lesbians do, sexually, is not acceptable. Those that argue against it, largely, argue against a WOMAN doing such to another WOMAN. The sexual process works the same with them as it does with us (*ed note: bein' straight, I use "us" to describe heterosexuals). We all can do the same things, and those of us with very happy sex lives often do.
Theirs doesn't have to involve bondage. Most our stories show a bondage interest. There are harder LAWS against bondage than there are against homosexuality. Holding someone against their will has been proven prosecutable even when someone ENTERS bondage willingly. We are of greater illegality, on that argument. G'luck finding a great response to that point.
They ARE being socially accepted. Not everywhere, but they've been in societies a long time. Longer than the Torah tracks (and it's older than the Bible), and longer than China's written word, 'cause they wrote about such centuries ago.
I'm hopin', sir, that you get to where you acknowledge that the gay community is being accepted, and would be delighted if you got to where you decided not to care if they live and love, so long as it didn't mess with you. Y'don't have t'burst into "Kumbayah" wit' the gay community. They're Americans, man. Just acknowledge that they are who they are, and are breakin' no laws by lovin' one another. Failin' that, I just hope you get to where you don't deal with that aspect of the country at all. Anything that results in no harm to you or them will work for me, sir.
The concept is a straw man, invented by the people who are pushing the gay agenda. By calling all who oppose it "phobics", and thus irrational, they hope to force the discussion to follow their own script.
My objections to public homosexual behavior, and to the gay agenda, are faith based. They're confirmed to my satisfaction by a lifetime of observation. If that makes me a homophobe, then so be it. If anyone out there doesen't like that, tough shit.
Strelnikov
Dunno if that makes ya a homophobe, Strel. What happens if me, two lesbians, and two gay men walk into your town, and sit next t'ya in a restaurant? Assumin' they have more taste than I, let's guess that they won't be gross, and start talkin' about sex, or yellin' "Out Now!" at the table. They're OBVIOUSLY familiar with one another, holdin' hands when they enter, maybe lookin' affectionately into one another's eyes. Maybe one of 'em tickles the other, too. Is that a problem? If you oppose a body's right to love another adult as they wish, without harm, then yeah, I guess. Does that describe ya?
For me, there's no agenda. I've significant family members in that community. I love those people. They're kin. They helped take care o' me when I had the first stroke, man. Were there at my graduation. I remember 'em when I was a boy, teachin' me t'ride a bike, bandaging skateboard road rashes. I love them. Family. I'm for havin' my family have the same rights as the rest of the country, and I'm for them not bein' scorned and abused.
Personally, I'm not into thinkin' about how most ANYONE has sex. TMI. Too much information. I'd rather wonder about a few, y'know?
At least with you, Strel, I know that yours is a defined case, beyond my ability to swat. If you believe it wrong for your faith, than it's there we disagree. Fortunately, we're men of intellect. Well, at least YOU are. I'm tryin' t'be. We can agree to disagree.
Tell me y'don't resort t'name callin' and violence, please? I like ya too much t'think you would, but it'll make me sleep EVER so much better if y'say so yourself.
dvnc
p.s. what a L O N G damned post!
