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Lifetime membership?
- Thread starter drew70
- Start date
Smell blood did ya drew70? And you just couldn't resist. For the life of me I can't think of a single reason why you'd start this thread out. Then I looked back at your past posts on here and AMT and it hit me. You hate TIB with a passion. Gotta hand it to ya man, you're even worse than me when it comes to starting arguments and flamewars. 
Now this is interesting......My "lifetime" account on ccbill for FemFeet has been cancelled. I did not do this. So now, when they (if) they decide to re-open, no accounts are there.
I will be asking for a partial refund, which I'm sure will not happen.
Also, think of this. If a site is "hacked," all you need to do is re-upload the pages, images, etc. And it does not take 2 months to do that.
This is ridiculous.
-impJ
I will be asking for a partial refund, which I'm sure will not happen.
Also, think of this. If a site is "hacked," all you need to do is re-upload the pages, images, etc. And it does not take 2 months to do that.
This is ridiculous.
-impJ
TicklingDuo
3rd Level Yellow Feather
- Joined
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I haven't seen any annoucement about this from TIB. Do we know if this is true or if they got hit again?
Ann
Ann
Smell blood did ya drew70? And you just couldn't resist. For the life of me I can't think of a single reason why you'd start this thread out.
Very simple. I saw this information posted to AMT and nothing about it here.
Then I looked back at your past posts on here and AMT and it hit me. You hate TIB with a passion.
Man, you sure seem interested in my activities. Should I be flattered or wary? Sure, TIB and I have traded words, and it's no secret that we're not friends. But this is business. And if that URL is legit, it's bad business at that. If a company is going to do a lot of advertising here in the tickling discussion forum, shouldn't we be able to reveal the "other" side of the coin? And if it's just a misunderstanding as I'm hoping it is, I'm sure we'll see a post to clear it all up.
Gotta hand it to ya man, you're even worse than me when it comes to starting arguments and flamewars.
Oh, I'm way better at it than you and we both know it.
drew70 said:
Drew you're smooth at sidestepping other people's points. But I won't let you do it this time. My point was simple. You hate TIB. You saw a great opportunity to start up a thread to make him look bad. Although you tried to make it seem like it was a customer service public announcement. From you!? LOL! I don't think so! Dude don't you know that anyone here who's halfway inteligent can see your true intentions in every one of your posts? That being to promote yourself as the all knowing, the all wonderful, and promote the people you hate as bad bad people. You seem to have a very unhealthy overly generous view of yourself and it's evident in your posts. Have you been this way all your life?
If you'd like some help maybe we could get you some. ...I got dozens of friends and the fun never ends, that is as long as I'm buying.....Too much time on my hands...Too much...
By the way I dislike TIB quite a bit myself, so he's not the real issue here. My issue is that you are a mixer and a trouble maker, and you think you're intelectually above everyone else. I've got news for you. The mods here do a great job and I don't think its kind of you to walk the line with every one of your posts, staying just under their "delete radar." They shouldn't have to sit up straight everytime you post and read and re-read your words to see if you've finally crossed the line. Do you really like being the kind of person yo are? Have you ever tried just being real and open with people? And nice? and kind? And get along with others? It makes for a lot happier life.
The mods here do a great job and I don't think its kind of you to walk the line with every one of your posts, staying just under their "delete radar." They shouldn't have to sit up straight everytime you post and read and re-read your words to see if you've finally crossed the line. Do you really like being the kind of person yo are? Have you ever tried just being real and open with people? And nice? and kind? And get along with others? It makes for a lot happier life. 
TickledToDeath
2nd Level Violet Feather
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- May 30, 2001
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- 7,477
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- 0
Somehow you had to see this coming.
By NO means is this a bashing or flame against TIB and/or Femfeet aka realtickling aka TC.
The multi name is peculiar when only One company name is necessary.
In, not just my opinion I am reasonably sure, the..."quality" of their product has fallen off somewhat lately. Questions have been raised, including by myself, about the originality and realness of their vids(dvd's).
I also think that they were/are trying too hard or too much to compete with the competition.
Few will argue that the best tickle vids are the "homemade".
real people(non model)who are really into tickling and or being tickled and is genuine 100 percent.
Commercialism seems to change the game plan even when success already exists.
TC/realtickling/femfeet once was like that.
The product should speak for itself along with normal advertising.
They had plenty of Free clips, {and this is NOT about getting something for nothing, don't misunderstand me, ok/} at a reasonable price even with the price hike to about 40 bucks.
Like the Protestant/Catholic wars, Femfeet/realtickling/TC
and ParadiseVision aka, I forget at the moment, have been at war with each other and as far as price is concerned, shadowing one another.
Again, the product speaks for itself. A product CAN sell itself.
The "Streaming Video" site was, in MY opinion, too much.
Too much commercialism.
A cost that was un-necessary.
Show the photo stills and a free clip or two or "trailer" for each video. Each video is of the hightest quality and utmost "genuine".
Even use real people as opposed to "Models" who can fake it and even fake the audition if they are that damn good at it, even the producers can and or may have been fooled. Maybe.
Models tend to require a higher fee.
Say the fee is $500.00 for a 1 hour video. One, that is alot of money to lay out for really only one hours work. I know the shoots can actually run alot more than an hour because of miscues or whatever but then agin, what "blooper" can happen during a tickle video that would make you stop/cut and restart? The less the video appears staged, professional, scripted and cut/edited, the better it will be and the more "real".
It should only take 1 hour to make a 1 hour video.
Ticklee is tied down...then tickled till the video is completed.
What ever happens happens. Shoot it, wrap it up.
The only edit should be the opening and closing credits.
Also, real people should be used more often.
I am sure there are plenty, myself included, who would offer their "services" for the good of the community to make a video and the producers would be totally assured that the ticklee is genuinly ticklish and into tickling.
Most of the time the simplest solution is the correct solution.
The simple plan is the right plan and will reap what they sew.
As for hacking/being hacked. It happens, unfortunatly however it would be a good suggestion to put the $$$ blown on a "Members Only" site into a computer security program to prevent being hacked.
Yes I understand it costs money to run and maintain a website.
Instead of producers trying to reach into both pockets of its' customers, make a genuine quality product and put the costs onto the vid(dvd) so you will make your profits and profits you will make if the product you produce "sells itself".
They may want to consider paying "royaltees" as opposed to a flat rate.
This is also insurance that you will get models/people who are definatly ticklish and would only make money if the vid they appeared in, made money.
Insurance for not only the producers but the comsumer as well.
There is enough of a market out there and here.
Complaints out there are that enough videos are not sold to cover the costs or make enough profit for the effort blaming that the market is not large enough.
Maybe the producers are looking in the wrong place.
Maybe the reason that enough vids are not being sold(that made you start a members only site so you could make more or enough money there to pick up the slack left by poor sales), is because the quality and genuiness as fallen off and as far as originality goes, just be simple. Tickle.
TTD
By NO means is this a bashing or flame against TIB and/or Femfeet aka realtickling aka TC.
The multi name is peculiar when only One company name is necessary.
In, not just my opinion I am reasonably sure, the..."quality" of their product has fallen off somewhat lately. Questions have been raised, including by myself, about the originality and realness of their vids(dvd's).
I also think that they were/are trying too hard or too much to compete with the competition.
Few will argue that the best tickle vids are the "homemade".
real people(non model)who are really into tickling and or being tickled and is genuine 100 percent.
Commercialism seems to change the game plan even when success already exists.
TC/realtickling/femfeet once was like that.
The product should speak for itself along with normal advertising.
They had plenty of Free clips, {and this is NOT about getting something for nothing, don't misunderstand me, ok/} at a reasonable price even with the price hike to about 40 bucks.
Like the Protestant/Catholic wars, Femfeet/realtickling/TC
and ParadiseVision aka, I forget at the moment, have been at war with each other and as far as price is concerned, shadowing one another.
Again, the product speaks for itself. A product CAN sell itself.
The "Streaming Video" site was, in MY opinion, too much.
Too much commercialism.
A cost that was un-necessary.
Show the photo stills and a free clip or two or "trailer" for each video. Each video is of the hightest quality and utmost "genuine".
Even use real people as opposed to "Models" who can fake it and even fake the audition if they are that damn good at it, even the producers can and or may have been fooled. Maybe.
Models tend to require a higher fee.
Say the fee is $500.00 for a 1 hour video. One, that is alot of money to lay out for really only one hours work. I know the shoots can actually run alot more than an hour because of miscues or whatever but then agin, what "blooper" can happen during a tickle video that would make you stop/cut and restart? The less the video appears staged, professional, scripted and cut/edited, the better it will be and the more "real".
It should only take 1 hour to make a 1 hour video.
Ticklee is tied down...then tickled till the video is completed.
What ever happens happens. Shoot it, wrap it up.
The only edit should be the opening and closing credits.
Also, real people should be used more often.
I am sure there are plenty, myself included, who would offer their "services" for the good of the community
to make a video and the producers would be totally assured that the ticklee is genuinly ticklish and into tickling.Most of the time the simplest solution is the correct solution.
The simple plan is the right plan and will reap what they sew.
As for hacking/being hacked. It happens, unfortunatly however it would be a good suggestion to put the $$$ blown on a "Members Only" site into a computer security program to prevent being hacked.
Yes I understand it costs money to run and maintain a website.
Instead of producers trying to reach into both pockets of its' customers, make a genuine quality product and put the costs onto the vid(dvd) so you will make your profits and profits you will make if the product you produce "sells itself".
They may want to consider paying "royaltees" as opposed to a flat rate.
This is also insurance that you will get models/people who are definatly ticklish and would only make money if the vid they appeared in, made money.
Insurance for not only the producers but the comsumer as well.
There is enough of a market out there and here.
Complaints out there are that enough videos are not sold to cover the costs or make enough profit for the effort blaming that the market is not large enough.
Maybe the producers are looking in the wrong place.
Maybe the reason that enough vids are not being sold(that made you start a members only site so you could make more or enough money there to pick up the slack left by poor sales), is because the quality and genuiness as fallen off and as far as originality goes, just be simple. Tickle.
TTD
This is most irritating if true. Hacked or not it sounds like they've taken my money and now are not going to provide the goods. Awfully convenient "me thinks"... have a "lifetime drive" to get subscribers then shut down. Hmmm. Where's my refund?
AFA, TTD's comments about streaming vids, I disagree. I find them worthwhile and that's how I've purchased most of my vids from TC.
AFA, TTD's comments about streaming vids, I disagree. I find them worthwhile and that's how I've purchased most of my vids from TC.
WallStreet
2nd Level Red Feather
- Joined
- Jul 2, 2001
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- 1,273
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- 0
TickledToDeath-- The bulk of your post had some accurate info. However, I know from personal experience that it takes alot longer than one hour to tape one hour of tickling. You can certainly tickle somebody for an hour straight, but it would not produce an entertaining video. A fresh model produces better tickle reactions. I shot the other day for 4 hours and ended up with 90 minutes of footage.
I completely agree with TTD on homemade videos being the best. The more basic the better. The only important thing is the tickling. Tastes will vary as to what we like in a ticklee, but as long as she's bacana coceguenta it will be a good video.
I don't buy alot of videos the way I used to, and I guess I've been lucky in my dealings with TC in the fact that every vid I've bought from them delivered the goods.
I've never seen any long running complaints against TIB as far as money is concerned. He always seems to make good in the end. Those who dislike his product are free to take their patronage elsewhere. Apparantly alot of people have done exactly that.
I completely agree with TTD on homemade videos being the best. The more basic the better. The only important thing is the tickling. Tastes will vary as to what we like in a ticklee, but as long as she's bacana coceguenta it will be a good video.
I don't buy alot of videos the way I used to, and I guess I've been lucky in my dealings with TC in the fact that every vid I've bought from them delivered the goods.
I've never seen any long running complaints against TIB as far as money is concerned. He always seems to make good in the end. Those who dislike his product are free to take their patronage elsewhere. Apparantly alot of people have done exactly that.
Texas_Tickle
4th Level Orange Feather
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- Aug 28, 2002
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marcusb said:
Kinda reminds me of the TickleSpot fiasco a few years back. I purchased a 6 month membership, then 2 months later they closed down because of "technical problems" and advised we would not be getting a refund of any sort. They also sold videos and I heard complaints that many people never got a video or their money back.
They pissed off a whole lot of people.
Texas_Tickle
4th Level Orange Feather
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drew70 said:Smell blood did ya drew70? And you just couldn't resist. For the life of me I can't think of a single reason why you'd start this thread out.
Very simple. I saw this information posted to AMT and nothing about it here.
Then I looked back at your past posts on here and AMT and it hit me. You hate TIB with a passion.
Man, you sure seem interested in my activities. Should I be flattered or wary? Sure, TIB and I have traded words, and it's no secret that we're not friends. But this is business. And if that URL is legit, it's bad business at that. If a company is going to do a lot of advertising here in the tickling discussion forum, shouldn't we be able to reveal the "other" side of the coin? And if it's just a misunderstanding as I'm hoping it is, I'm sure we'll see a post to clear it all up.
Gotta hand it to ya man, you're even worse than me when it comes to starting arguments and flamewars.
Oh, I'm way better at it than you and we both know it.
I have to agree with Drew, I have never dealt with TC one-on-one, but if any company is doing what people claim they are doing (hacking their own site, just as an excuse to keep people's money, without providing the services promised), then yes, the public does have a right to know.
But I was not there, nor was I a customer. I have just heard that is what people are brining to light.
I would hope that the TIB (who I also dislike) would have a little more sense than to hack his own site. If it can be proven that he did that would be considered fraud and would be punishable in a court of law. Depending on the size and amount of the fraudulent circumstances, one can be charged with a felony and be required to complete a considerable amount of rehabilitation in a penal facility.
TickledToDeath
2nd Level Violet Feather
- Joined
- May 30, 2001
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- 0
Has the rotting decay of greed, fraud and lies infested itself throughout OUR community and realtickling aka TC Video aka Femfeet?
IF this is true, this TOTALLY FRIGGIN DISGUSTS ME!
TTD
IF this is true, this TOTALLY FRIGGIN DISGUSTS ME!
TTD
impjester said:
impJ,
I noticed this too. Did you notice in the transaction detail the the length of subscription is 99 days?!?!?!?!? So my lifetime membership "Technically" expired a few month's back. I bet they did this to cover thier selves. I am sure FEMFEET will claim CCBILL does not have a term or option for lifetime members!
What a crappy way to do buisness.
dodger said:By the way I dislike TIB quite a bit myself, so he's not the real issue here. My issue is that you are a mixer and a trouble maker, and you think you're intelectually above everyone else. I've got news for you.
Dodger, people actually have been ripped off here by FemFeet.
Myriads
Tzar of the TMF
- Joined
- Apr 2, 2001
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- 14,297
- Points
- 38
Folks before you get out the pitchforks and torches and march off to LA, let's take a moment to see what TC has to say about this. Never once when there has been what I consider a significant issue with his company, has the TiB not stepped up and explained things here. Let's give it a few days and see what he has to say.
Myriads
Myriads
TickledToDeath
2nd Level Violet Feather
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Myriads said:
That is what I am desperatly hoping for. My critisism was a backhanded so to speak defense of them saying that they just have or had got a bit out of control and lost their way in the Forest.
When it THAT business, they were better off having not gone INTO the Forest. They as I see it and hope it to be, got caught up in the Competition when there is no need for competition. If the product is good, the market will flourish.
TTD
tickler_n_black
1st Level Blue Feather
- Joined
- Oct 11, 2001
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- 5,133
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ok. hello to everyone. especially to those that would love to see me hanging from a tree.
first, i do apologize for not getting to this post earlier and responding. my mother has been extremely ill for the last 3 1/2 weeks and i've spent much less time with the business because of it. is my mom's illness an excuse of any kind? no. just thought i'd inform you of why i'm slow to respond.
secondly, i'll address this current issue the best i can. the last 4 weeks or so have been some of the roughest i've encountered in life so my head is still really spinning. also i know there is nothing, absolutely nothing that i can say that will quiet those of you who are determined to lynch me. so, like always, i'll not worry about trying to sugarcoat anything, or being politically correct, i'll just say exactly what comes to mind at this moment. sometimes that gets me into trouble but oh well.
first a couple facts:
yes we were indeed hacked and deleted, for real. i see that someone suggested (almost insisted as fact) that we hacked ourselves, and that is utterly ridiculous. enough said on that.
yes, we do have most of the photos and video clips from the former members area in tact here locally. they are just not in a "website format." they are scattered here and there on different computers and cdroms, some without copyright stamps on them, some completely raw and un-edited. so rebuilding is possible, but literally weeks and weeks of work.
when deciding what we could do, should do, we weighed everything as carefully as we could, and decided that it's nearly impossible to rebuild and host the members only area again, at this time, primarily for financial reasons, secondly for man power reasons. that's all i'll say on that subject of our decision to not rebuild at this time.
ok, onto the meat of the subject. i humbly apologize right off the bat for ever using the wording "Lifetime Membership." Using "One time Membership" would have better suited what we tried to do, that is make it so customers did not have their credit cards billed every month for the same amount and have their spouses get more chances to question what it was. so we figured lets have them pay one time and never worry about paying again. another reason was we knew it would be a great bargain for those that wanted to be long term members. imagine paying $49.95 and having access for lets say, a year or two. that would come out to an insane $4.10 cents a month, or $2.05 cents a month for two years. talk about a sweet deal. and we were absolutely prepared to give it. we were plugging along fine, then we got hacked and deleted. at the same time our hosting company said prices were being raised, and with the personal things here in my life going on we concluded that we could not repair the members area at this time. that's not up for debate. please know that we are not going to rebuild the members area. again, terming the membership as "Lifetime" was a huge mistake on our part. that would amount to i think just 13 cents per month over 30 years.
more info:
the first member who joined what should have been termed "One Time Membership" was on April 12th, 2002.
our site was hacked on December 13th, 2002. he/she had 8 months as a member without paying again. comes out to $6.24 cents per month. now here comes the part where many of you start screaming. did we goof up big time by getting hacked and not being prepared (technically and financially) to rebuild? YES. but do we feel that the customer who paid only $6.24 cents a month for a top notch tickling website membership is owed a refund? NO, we don't.
whereas it was not our plan at all to be offline just 1/2 a year after starting this great membership deal, it still happened, and thats the facts. we didn't plan it. we didn't want to fail. we didn't plan on failing, but we did.
in our defense though, there are many of you who know me a little bit more intimately and know for a sure fact that i'm not one to rip people off. i believe in being as fair as possible with all people. but in this instance we don't have the resources to do some of the things that some of you consider to be fair. and we regret it.
lastly though, and please read this carefully. i will not contribute in any further discussion about this matter here on this public forum. those that were members can email us and we'll certainly respond to them. many of you posting to this thread never were, nor recently were members, so quite frankly it does not concern you and we won't debate with you about this subject. some of you non members are genuinely just stating your opinions and i understand. i haven't a problem with that. but then there are those that hate us for completely different reasons and are just using this thread to get some punches in. read through this thread, you'll see who they are.
now, to those of you, and you know who you are as you read this, that hate me or our company for personal, petty reasons other than this membership closing ordeal, i suppose your heart rate probably went up instantly when first seeing this thread and saliva started to flow as you licked your chops thinking about how thoroughly you were going to tear me and TC Video apart with your posts. well. enjoy your moment in the sun because the time is now. we screwed up big time.
hey everyone. thanks for your time and hopefully you have a little better understanding of what has happened. there is no scam. just a set of circumstances that knocked us out for a while. best wishes to you all. but please remember, life is precious and moves by way to quickly. i've learned that recently regarding an illness in the family. we here at TC Video are VERY VERY VERY SORRY that this all took place. saying sorry doesn't help former customers i know, but we're sorry all the same. take care.
especially to those that would love to see me hanging from a tree.first, i do apologize for not getting to this post earlier and responding. my mother has been extremely ill for the last 3 1/2 weeks and i've spent much less time with the business because of it. is my mom's illness an excuse of any kind? no. just thought i'd inform you of why i'm slow to respond.
secondly, i'll address this current issue the best i can. the last 4 weeks or so have been some of the roughest i've encountered in life so my head is still really spinning. also i know there is nothing, absolutely nothing that i can say that will quiet those of you who are determined to lynch me. so, like always, i'll not worry about trying to sugarcoat anything, or being politically correct, i'll just say exactly what comes to mind at this moment. sometimes that gets me into trouble but oh well.
first a couple facts:
yes we were indeed hacked and deleted, for real. i see that someone suggested (almost insisted as fact) that we hacked ourselves, and that is utterly ridiculous. enough said on that.
yes, we do have most of the photos and video clips from the former members area in tact here locally. they are just not in a "website format." they are scattered here and there on different computers and cdroms, some without copyright stamps on them, some completely raw and un-edited. so rebuilding is possible, but literally weeks and weeks of work.
when deciding what we could do, should do, we weighed everything as carefully as we could, and decided that it's nearly impossible to rebuild and host the members only area again, at this time, primarily for financial reasons, secondly for man power reasons. that's all i'll say on that subject of our decision to not rebuild at this time.
ok, onto the meat of the subject. i humbly apologize right off the bat for ever using the wording "Lifetime Membership." Using "One time Membership" would have better suited what we tried to do, that is make it so customers did not have their credit cards billed every month for the same amount and have their spouses get more chances to question what it was. so we figured lets have them pay one time and never worry about paying again. another reason was we knew it would be a great bargain for those that wanted to be long term members. imagine paying $49.95 and having access for lets say, a year or two. that would come out to an insane $4.10 cents a month, or $2.05 cents a month for two years. talk about a sweet deal. and we were absolutely prepared to give it. we were plugging along fine, then we got hacked and deleted. at the same time our hosting company said prices were being raised, and with the personal things here in my life going on we concluded that we could not repair the members area at this time. that's not up for debate. please know that we are not going to rebuild the members area. again, terming the membership as "Lifetime" was a huge mistake on our part. that would amount to i think just 13 cents per month over 30 years.
more info:
the first member who joined what should have been termed "One Time Membership" was on April 12th, 2002.
our site was hacked on December 13th, 2002. he/she had 8 months as a member without paying again. comes out to $6.24 cents per month. now here comes the part where many of you start screaming. did we goof up big time by getting hacked and not being prepared (technically and financially) to rebuild? YES. but do we feel that the customer who paid only $6.24 cents a month for a top notch tickling website membership is owed a refund? NO, we don't.
whereas it was not our plan at all to be offline just 1/2 a year after starting this great membership deal, it still happened, and thats the facts. we didn't plan it. we didn't want to fail. we didn't plan on failing, but we did.
in our defense though, there are many of you who know me a little bit more intimately and know for a sure fact that i'm not one to rip people off. i believe in being as fair as possible with all people. but in this instance we don't have the resources to do some of the things that some of you consider to be fair. and we regret it.
lastly though, and please read this carefully. i will not contribute in any further discussion about this matter here on this public forum. those that were members can email us and we'll certainly respond to them. many of you posting to this thread never were, nor recently were members, so quite frankly it does not concern you and we won't debate with you about this subject. some of you non members are genuinely just stating your opinions and i understand. i haven't a problem with that. but then there are those that hate us for completely different reasons and are just using this thread to get some punches in. read through this thread, you'll see who they are.
now, to those of you, and you know who you are as you read this, that hate me or our company for personal, petty reasons other than this membership closing ordeal, i suppose your heart rate probably went up instantly when first seeing this thread and saliva started to flow as you licked your chops thinking about how thoroughly you were going to tear me and TC Video apart with your posts. well. enjoy your moment in the sun because the time is now. we screwed up big time.
hey everyone. thanks for your time and hopefully you have a little better understanding of what has happened. there is no scam. just a set of circumstances that knocked us out for a while. best wishes to you all. but please remember, life is precious and moves by way to quickly. i've learned that recently regarding an illness in the family. we here at TC Video are VERY VERY VERY SORRY that this all took place. saying sorry doesn't help former customers i know, but we're sorry all the same. take care.
TIB, I am really sorry that your mother is very ill. I wish her a speedy recovery and send my thoughts your way. I have had conversations with you and believe you to be an up and up person. I know your intentions are in the right place. I think the right people will see that too.
JPie
JPie
Mr. TIB I have not been the nicest to you in the past and my general hatred of you will probably not subside. However, I am truly sorry to hear about your mother hope she feels better soon. Having said that, I will now interject my 22 cents into this fray. I say this from the standpoint of having been a member of femfeet at one time only to encounter problems that caused me to discontinue. But that story is for another lifetime lets get to the point at hand. TIB, maybe you should take some time off and see if you can handle a business of this sort. I hate to say this but even though you are having problems personally you still have a business to run. When you endeavor to form a business you are taking on the responsibilty to serve the customers. I am sure in this case most of the customers will be understanding and cut you the slack that you need. However, don't be suprised if some are not so understanding and demand whatever it is they have coming. In this case, people paid for a lifetime membership (your words) so that is what they expect. Even though you say you actually meant one-time membership some people might consider that misrepresentation. Unfortunately, nothing can change that. Just a thought, maybe some refunds are in order to calm the masses.
