M/M tickling for heteros?

[Cosmo_ac]

If you are sexually aroused by the same sex in any capacity, it IS homosexual behavior. The key word here is BEHAVIOR. That means everything from anal intercourse, to BDSM, to tickling, to cuddling. It does not mean the male in question does not enjoy sexual attention from females. Heck, it doens't mean that the male in question doesn't enjoy the same activities with a female. It just means that the male in question DOES participate in homosexual activities.

I disagree. I think Red already put it here, but i'll do it as well. What if a person is in a set of stocks and has his feet licked by goats, and get's aroused? Or is tickled by a machine and get's aroused? Are they suddenly into Beastality as well? Do they want to fuck the toaster? What if a person reads a story where one of these two things happen and they become aroused?

I think Linda hit the nail on the head. Some people are able to get there head around the fact they are being tickled by a male or female, or animal or robot. For some people it's the simple fact they are being tickled, not by "Whom" or "What" they are being tickled by that causes arousal.

 

[Ticklerguy4u]

Why are we still beating this dead horse???

The bottom line is that if someone wants to be gay then be gay. If they don't then don't, but if you want the world to see you as gay or not gay then you'll have to do things that look or don't look "gay" to others. But then again..who gives a frig about what other's think.

 

[drew70]

I have a question that fits in perfectly with the mentality that's been displayed on this thread:

If you've got your head up your own ass, does that mean you're gay??

Sounds like soul-searching to me. Let us know when you come up with the answer.

 

[OBleedingMe]

There is always gender involved in a sexual fantasy. If a person is fantasizing about being tickled by goats, there is usually a tormentor controlling those goats or robots or machine or whatever. The whther the tormentor is the same sex or the opposite sex of the the victim would dictate whether or not the action is heterosexual behavior or homosexual behavior.

Are there people out there who just fantasize about watching a person being tormented or being tormented themselves by animals or machines? Sure. But there's ALMOST always a human element to this. If there is absolutelly no human element to this fantasy, then it would not be considered homosexual or heterosexual behavior, but another designation, like bestiality or autosexual (sexual activity with machines). These cases do exist, but they are EXTREMELY rare statiscally. There is almost always a human element in a human's sexual fantasy, whether it be another person directly or indirectly being controlled or controlling the fantasy.

I really feel this is very simple. Sexual activity (in other words, anything that sexually arouses a person) with the same sex is homosexual behavior. Sexual activity with the opposite sex is heterosexual behavior. Sexual activity with both sexes is bisexual behavior. Whether we're talking about vanilla sex, BDSM, D/s, kissing, cuddling, or whatever turns a person on. Got a thing for sneezing? Only like watching guys sneeze? Homosexual behavior. Got a thing for body hair? Only like staring at female body hair? Heterosexual behavior. Got a thing for elbows? Like staring at both male and female elbows? Bisexual behavior.

This IS a very simple formula. Are there exceptions to this formula? Yes, absolutely. Don't worry, no one is forgotten here.

I think some people on this forum just hate labels. They don't like being grouped into any sort of catagory whatsoever. For instance, if you called them white, they'd say NO! I am 1/10000 BLACK! How dare you! Or, I prefer to be called Angelo-Saxan. ANything to make themselves stand out, so they don't feel like they're part of the crowd. They just like to be individuals, and there's nothing wrong with that, but they have to understand that for scientific purposes catagorizing and labeling is essential.

Anywho, I've stated my case several times. There are some people who agree, there are some who disagree, and changing a person's mind in this day and age is nearly impossible. Everyone is convinced they follow the one true path. So yes, having a debate in this day and age IS like beating dead horse.

 

[tickled7]

Scientific American MIND - Sexuality and Choice

Scientific American MIND has an article on Sexuality and Choice.

So let us not confuse the issue with Facts.

 

[darvon96]

Ok, let's get a little more absurd here...let's say a male is blindfolded and bound. Various acts are performed on him including manual stimulation of the genitals, oral sex and tickling. He doesn't know if the perpetrator is male or female.

He gets aroused.

If the perp is female, but he thinks it's a male, is he gay?

If the perp is male, but he thinks it's a female, is he gay?

If he really doesn't give a damn because it all just feels too damn good, what is he then? (besides invited to a dinner party of fun people at my house?)

Now you've done it lk70! You've brought sexual quantum mechanics into the discussion.

Simple put, with the blindfold on, he's in sexual superposition, meaning he's both gay and straight at the same time. The only factor involved in determining which, is the probability that it's a male over a female doing the act. If he's smart, he'll remain in superposition as long as possible. But ultimately the blindfold will have to come off, the wave function will collapse, and he'll find out if he's gay or not.

Sorry folks, I thought it would be good to bring a little science into this thread. Has anyone seen my cat?

 

[tickled7]

What does Science have to do with Facts?

What does Science have to do with Facts?

 

[Sole Stroker]

Wow! Well this thread has sure gone off the rails since I last checked in. But I'm happy to say I met a guy in my neighborhood today and we had a really good time. I thought it would feel gay, but it didn't at all, it just felt fun. And I thought I might beat myself up afterwards over it or have some big crisis about my masculinity, but I don't feel any differently about myself at all, just glad that I got what I wanted. I was exclusively the lee though and I had no desire to tickle him, I don't know if that makes a difference. I'm pretty sure he was gay even though he insisted he wasn't, although that doesn't matter to me. Anyway, it's pointless for me to worry about what other people think, I'm a grown man, I can make those kinds of decisions for myself and nobody can say a thing to me about it. It's none of their business. Thanks everybody!

 

[steph]

good for you!

Crazy shit huh?

Glad you had fun!
Yay for just finding someone who "gets it"!
XOXO

Wow! Well this thread has sure gone off the rails since I last checked in. But I'm happy to say I met a guy in my neighborhood today and we had a really good time. I thought it would feel gay, but it didn't at all, it just felt fun. And I thought I might beat myself up afterwards over it or have some big crisis about my masculinity, but I don't feel any differently about myself at all, just glad that I got what I wanted. I was exclusively the lee though and I had no desire to tickle him, I don't know if that makes a difference. I'm pretty sure he was gay even though he insisted he wasn't, although that doesn't matter to me. Anyway, it's pointless for me to worry about what other people think, I'm a grown man, I can make those kinds of decisions for myself and nobody can say a thing to me about it. It's none of their business. Thanks everybody!

 

[Redmage]

There is always gender involved in a sexual fantasy.

I'm sorry, but that is flatly untrue. Check some studies of sexual fantasy - Nancy Friday published some good ones.

 

[OBleedingMe]

Redmage, did you just read the very first line of post and have knee-jerk reaction? Please read the entire post - definite foot-in-mouth moment here.

As for what feels gay and doesn't feel gay - it doesn't matter how you feel a certain action is. If you enjoy sexual activity with THE SAME SEX, it IS homosexual behavior. If you deny this, you're in denial about your own behavior, PERIOD. You have some sort of bias in your own mind against homosexual behavior, and so you refuse to accept the fact that you enjoy sexual activity with the same sex. It doesn't mean that you don't enjoy sexual activity with the opposite sex, it just means you enjoy a certain sexual activity with the same sex. Now, if you're fantasizing about women while engaging in sexual activity with the same sex, then you repressed heterosexual tendencies.

And Sole Seeker, if ya don't want anyone's opinion, don't make a thread like this. It's really stupid to ask a fetish forum of over 10,000 members an opinion on something and then act like you never asked for advice when you don't like what you read.

 

[Cosmo_ac]

sorry Bleeding, i just don't understand the logic your using. If a person is not attracted to a member of the same sex, i don't see how they can be homosexual. If the focus of there arousil was the person, then i could see it, as they are getting aroused by the person as oposed to the situation. However, when the focus is not the person, but the stimulation, or fetish, or what have you, then this should be a different thing.

 

[Gavin]

No matter what the case, everyone just has to remember that:

 

[tickler_n_black]

Redmage, If you enjoy sexual activity with THE SAME SEX, it IS homosexual behavior.

This is a true statement.
It's beyond me how anybody can say otherwise.

Enjoying sexual activity with the same sex is homesexual behavior.
Period!
Or at the least its bisexual behavior.

 

[OBleedingMe]

Oh please, Cosmo. That's like suggesting that, although a man likes being whipped by other men, it's not homosexual behavior, he just likes how the whip feels! It doesn't matter who's weilding it! Or, that man isn't gay, he just likes how a male's anus feels around his penis! Or even, that man isn't straight, he just likes how a vagina feels around his penis! All sexual activity is associated with sensation. It comes down to who or what is administering that stimulation. Man/Man = homosexual behavior. Man/Woman = heterosexual behavior. Man OR Woman/Man = bisexual behavior. So, to answer you query, Cosmo, if a man is turned on by men or women tickling him, that would be bisexual behavior. If he is turned on by men, women and machines tickling him, he would be bisexual as well as autosexual (EXTREMELY RARE).

If you are turned on by tickling a male foot, it is homosexual behavior. If you are turned on by being tickled by male fingers, it is homosexual behavior. If you are turned on by tickling a female foot, it is heterosexual behavior. If you are turned on by tickling both males and females, you are bisexual. To sit there and tell me this is illogical is to refute reality.

I give up. This is double-think at its very best. George Orwell would be most amused. 2+2=4... unless I say it equals 5... or 6... or 3! Rationalize your behavior and believe what you like.

One more point: Homosexual behavior is not bad. It is not an abomination. It is a sexual behavior of humans. Remember, denial is unhealthy. You're only lying to yourself.

 

[Redmage]

Redmage, did you just read the very first line of post and have knee-jerk reaction? Please read the entire post - definite foot-in-mouth moment here.

I did read the entire post. But your mistaken attitude in that first sentence set you off on a false track that you never recovered from. And here you're about to do it again...

As for what feels gay and doesn't feel gay - it doesn't matter how you feel a certain action is. If you enjoy sexual activity with THE SAME SEX, it IS homosexual behavior.

No question about that - if and only if your enjoyment of those sensations is at least partly based on the gender of the person you're sharing them with. My point is that gender is not always a factor at all, as you're convinced it is.

You have some sort of bias in your own mind against homosexual behavior, and so you refuse to accept the fact that you enjoy sexual activity with the same sex.

Oh, rubbish. I've stated openly on these boards that I'm bisexual, and have said in so many many words that I enjoy sexual activity with both genders. This is typical of the sort of mistake you're making in this debate: a false assumption that you grab and run with, until you've built a whole argument out of something that's just demonstrably untrue.

Oh please, Cosmo. That's like suggesting that, although a man likes being whipped by other men, it's not homosexual behavior, he just likes how the whip feels! It doesn't matter who's weilding it!

By George, you've got it! That is EXACTLY how it is. The only problem is that you don't believe this could happen, but in point of fact it can and does.

 

[Redmage]

This is a true statement.
It's beyond me how anybody can say otherwise.

See my reply to OBM. If one is enjoying sex with someone of the same gender BECAUSE they are the same gender, then yes, that is homosexual behavior. If they're just enjoying the sensations, and really don't care one way or another about their partner's gender, then that's a fuzzier proposition. It is "homosexual" in the strict biological sense of sexual behavior between persons of the same gender, but in that situation this is incidental as far as that person's actual sexual orientation is concerned.

 

[Sole Stroker]

And Sole Seeker, if ya don't want anyone's opinion, don't make a thread like this. It's really stupid to ask a fetish forum of over 10,000 members an opinion on something and then act like you never asked for advice when you don't like what you read.

Um...I did ask what everyone's opinion is, and I do care. But what I got out of everyone's comments is that ultimately, it's my decision to make. So why don't you take the stick out of your ass.

 

[lk70]

Um...I did ask what everyone's opinion is, and I do care. But what I got out of everyone's comments is that ultimately, it's my decision to make. So why don't you take the stick out of your ass.

Go forth and be happy! That'll show 'em!

Oh, rubbish.

I just love it when someone says "oh rubbish"

 

[Redmage]

I just love it when someone says "oh rubbish"

It's a dirty job, but someone had to say it. Besides, I save actual scatological prose for very special occasions, which this wasn't.

I'm happy to have made you happy, in any case.

 

[drew70]

Time to break out the long boots. It's getting thick and deep in here.

 

[LadyKilroy]

This may or may not help...

The debate over whether or not enjoying sexual activity regardless of gender alters one's orientation will likely never be answered to anybody's appeasement. For the record, both OBM and his supporters as well as those who oppose him ALL make valid points. I prefer to take things on a case-by-case basis, and I think it's a bit presumptuous in any case to try to tell anybody for certain that their self-identification is in error. It may be, it may not... but how would anybody besides the person themselves really know? Who are we to judge others' emotions?

The debate, however, about whether tickling with persons of the same gender can be independent of sexual orientation should be very simple to understand... even for O Bleeding Me... and since I kind of like the way he tried to explain his logic, I'll steal his format.

Sexual activity is described and defined as anything that can be sexually stimulating to a person. A turn-on. If you have a thing for feet, then feet are a sexual focus. If not, they are nothing more than feet. If elbows turn you on, it's sexual. If not, it is not a sexual focus. If spanking turns you on, it is sexual. If not, then it is not a sexual activity. This, however, can be situational. A parent can spank their child and not become aroused by it. Non-sexual. The same parent can spank their spouse and be aroused by it. Sexual. A girl can tickle her sister or her best friend and not be turned on by it. Non-sexual. Same girl can tickle her boyfriend and become aroused at his reaction. Sexual.

This solves quite nicely the idea that parents can tickle their kids and not be guilty of pedophilia. True, there are some people out there for whom tickling is ALWAYS a sexual thing. Should these people be tickling their children? Absolutely not. But if doing so does not arouse them, then it is not ALWAYS a sexual thing anymore. This takes a lot of personal honesty and insight, but it does vary from person to person.

THEREFORE...
If a guy tickles or is tickled by another man and it does not arouse him sexually, it is not a sexual activity. If he goes home later to his wife or girlfriend and engages in the same behavior as a means of foreplay and finds it very sexually stimulating and arousing, then that is a sexual act. Moreover, the aformentioned guy has, thus far, NOT engaged in any homosexual behavior.

Arousing= sexual. Not arousing= not sexual. This, too, is very simple.

As always, I welcome any exceptions... the world is not black and white. People can be unsure of whether something is arousing at the time... but this is not what I am talking about.

I also welcome any comments. Again, the argument is still unsolved, IMHO, as to whether a guy can be tickled by another man and find it arousing, but not be gay, simply because the behavior an the sensation turns him on... but that, again is NOT what I am making a point on, so if anybody finds an error in my logic, please, do not base it on such arguments.

I have tried to clarify as best I can. Any questions? Any thoughts?

 

[tickler_n_black]

If a guy tickles or is tickled by another man and it does not arouse him sexually, it is not a sexual activity. Moreover, the aformentioned guy has, thus far, NOT engaged in any homosexual behavior.
Any thoughts?

LadyKilroy,
I'd like to first say that I respect your way of speaking. You don't insult or call people names or tell them they are "closed minded." Thank you for your civil conversation abilities.

I do want to bring up a counter point if I may.

You mentioned "a guy tickling a guy." Well that's a pretty broad spectrum, so here's my question to you. Would you consider it homosexual behavior for two men (supposedly straight) to take the time to make a "play date" together, and tie each other up in their shorts (or nude) while completely alone for 2 hours and tickle each other on a bed .... homosexual behavior?

And if you don't call that homosexual behavior, then what DO you calll it?
Thanks.

 

[Horatio]

If a guy tickles or is tickled by another man and it does not arouse him sexually, it is not a sexual activity.

Lady Kilroy, I agree that, even to a tickle fetishist, that there are some tickles which do not cause arousal. Specifically, in my case, when I'm playing with my 2 year old daughter, and I raspberry her tummy, of course it's not arousing at all. In fact, I'm not even really thinking about tickling, I'm just playing with my baby.

But, I DEFY anyone who self-identifies as a "tickle fetishist" (i.e. posts or lurks on a board like this) to honestly say that "recreational" tickling with another adult is not arousing to them.

 

[Mimi]

But, I DEFY anyone who self-identifies as a "tickle fetishist" (i.e. posts or lurks on a board like this) to honestly say that "recreational" tickling with another adult is not arousing to them.

Ummm, it's not. When I tickle or am tickled by a friend, the feelings I get or have are no different than what I experience when I tickle my kids. Strictly playful interraction, not the least bit of sexual thought or intention involved. I'm not even unintentionally aroused. Zip. Nada.

When I am tied and tickled at a gathering, but men and women, it is the same thing. It's fun, it's exciting, it's excrutiating.....but it's not sexual. Never do I have any sexual desires for or thoughts about the person or people tickling me. It's a fun contact activity. Granted it's more intimate than what I share with friends and family because the chemical charge exchanged between fellow ticklephiles is electrifying and amazing, but it's still platonic fun.

Mimi